The VISA Scare - Globill's Response - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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49thParallel

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The VISA Scare - Globill's Response

10-02-2002, 12:05 PM

This is the official announcement that Globill has sent out that would indicate that the $750 fee quoted by IBILL, CCBILL, EPOCH & PAYCOM is NOT industry wide. (and no, I don't work for Globill...they sent me this notice, as I currently use them as my processor of choice)..

As I mentioned in another thread...Globill appears to run a tighter ship..no free trials...and a closer reign on the other paysite dirty tricks...so perhaps they will be able to remain out of the crosshairs of VISA regulators:

As part of this restructuring, Glo-Bill has also moved all of its processing to a stable and reputable offshore bank. Previously Glo-Bill processed through a combination of offshore and domestic banks. An important reason for this move is that Visa and Mastercard have new regulations for their US member banks that should be going into effect before the end of the year. These new regulations will make business much more expensive for those third-party billing companies and their clients who choose to remain under the jurisdiction of the US merchant banking system. It would also force billing companies to divulge certain client information to Visa/Mastercard (web site URLs, income, contact info, etc.) and to essentially blacklist any individual client who exceeds Visa/Mastercard chargeback limits for even one month. Glo-Bill found many measures in these new rules to be overly broad and an apparent attempt to gouge our industry for extra cash. Glo-Bill is convinced that it will emerge as one of the strongest and most stable billing companies due to its decision to move its processing fully offshore.
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Brad Mitchell

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#2

10-02-2002, 12:06 PM

I'm betting the shit is going to fly in this thread <getting popcorn>

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#3

10-02-2002, 12:07 PM

Gotta love Glo-Bill -- old and reliable.

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#4

10-02-2002, 12:12 PM

Woohoo! Lets all use Glo-Bill

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#5

10-02-2002, 12:20 PM

Interesting...

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49thParallel

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#6

10-02-2002, 12:21 PM

Here's the only disclaimer that Globill has sent out:

As with any major decision, there is at least one minor downside, but this is outweighed by the advantages of stability and convenience gained. The standard reserve for all clients is now 10% for all clients. Up until now older clients who joined before September, 2001 were being charged a slightly lower reserve. Clients who joined after September, 2001 were already under the 10% so they are not affected. The reserve is now at industry level norms. The sliding commission scale is of course intact, and now applies to each weekly payout. So if you have been getting better commission rates with us in the past, you will continue to do so.
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#7

10-02-2002, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Woohoo! Lets all use Glo-Bill

My first and only choice !

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Kimmykim

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#8

10-02-2002, 01:09 PM

10% reserve is industry standard? Don't make me fucking laugh.

People that cant afford a couple hundred bucks to run their business need to get the fuck out of the business, since I guarantee you their shitty tours and most likely crappy member areas only make it worse for the rest of the people in this business.

If moving out of the US was such a great fucking idea, one would figure that IBill, CCBill, etc would all be doing it.

What seems to go unnoticed in all this talk is the fact that the scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses are the reason for this whole situation.

I guess they will all go to Globill now to keep right on scamming and then the rules will just get tighter for everyone.

Of course if it is implemented that processors can ONLY take companies located in the same region as the processor I guess Globill would either have to come back to the states or only manage non US traffic.
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#9

10-02-2002, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim
If moving out of the US was such a great fucking idea, one would figure that IBill, CCBill, etc would all be doing it.

and 20 years ago, if making a *personal computer* complete with a *pointing device* was a good idea, everyone would have been doing that too.

Guess it wasn't a good idea.
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49thParallel

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#10

10-02-2002, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim
10% reserve is industry standard? Don't make me fucking laugh.

People that cant afford a couple hundred bucks to run their business need to get the fuck out of the business, since I guarantee you their shitty tours and most likely crappy member areas only make it worse for the rest of the people in this business.

If moving out of the US was such a great fucking idea, one would figure that IBill, CCBill, etc would all be doing it.

What seems to go unnoticed in all this talk is the fact that the scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses are the reason for this whole situation.

I guess they will all go to Globill now to keep right on scamming and then the rules will just get tighter for everyone.

Of course if it is implemented that processors can ONLY take companies located in the same region as the processor I guess Globill would either have to come back to the states or only manage non US traffic.

Welcome to the conversation...to bad you didn't read any of it...

Globill does not allow FREE trials...Globill is much more strict on what is allowed in terms and conditions.and as far as I can see...most of the scammers and fraudelent practices are being done by the big boys..the smaller operators tend to have simple membership offers without the smoke and mirror practices of the larger competitors. Globill will allow these smaller operators to continue operating..which is great news for the industry and the consumer.
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#11

10-02-2002, 01:35 PM

Sooo.. switch to Globill and lose my rebillings with CCBill and Ibill? Hmmm think not. If this is correct, then Globill will only benefit from NEW sites.
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#12

10-02-2002, 02:06 PM

Im scared. Hold me.
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#13

10-02-2002, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by [Labret]
Im scared. Hold me.

DrewKole might oblige you as he is a changed person, or who knows he might have held you before he changed.

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#14

10-02-2002, 02:12 PM

the 750$ charge is nothign for most webmasters here

its the whole idea of having to register your company in US
and by the looks of it , having to probably reside there is a big problem

domain buyer
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Ludedude

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#15

10-02-2002, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim

What seems to go unnoticed in all this talk is the fact that the scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses are the reason for this whole situation.

Yes, but it's not the website operators that are the scammers. It's the dishonest consumer who has figured out he can either a) pay $2.95, jerk off and cancel or b) pay $29.95, jerk off and chargeback. Visa et al have allowed this to go on and put the onus on the merchants. That's a load of shit in my opinion. Why don't they make it fucking harder to chargeback goods that were bought and used?
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Ludedude

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#16

10-02-2002, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Candyman69
the 750$ charge is nothign for most webmasters here

its the whole idea of having to register your company in US
and by the looks of it , having to probably reside there is a big problem

While that's true, buried in that $750 is $250 of fees going to the processors.
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#17

10-02-2002, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Ludedude

Yes, but it's not the website operators that are the scammers. It's the dishonest consumer who has figured out he can either a) pay $2.95, jerk off and cancel or b) pay $29.95, jerk off and chargeback. Visa et al have allowed this to go on and put the onus on the merchants. That's a load of shit in my opinion. Why don't they make it fucking harder to chargeback goods that were bought and used?

Because visa and Master Card see that 60 some percent of consumers are scared to make purchases online, which is a huge loss for them, so to encourage online purchasing they only make it easier to chargeback, thereby ridding itself of fraudsters who cannot properly dispute the chargeback.

This puts those selling services online at a huge dissadvantage because it is nearly impossible to prove that sevices were delivered. Customer can easily say they cancelled and win. Whereas with merchandise, at least you can prove that it was in fact delivered, signed for, etc.

It looks to me, and this is just a preliminary thought, that visa and Mastercard are slowly doing everything they can to consolidate the High risk market.
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49thParallel

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#18

10-02-2002, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Ludedude

Yes, but it's not the website operators that are the scammers. It's the dishonest consumer who has figured out he can either a) pay $2.95, jerk off and cancel or b) pay $29.95, jerk off and chargeback. Visa et al have allowed this to go on and put the onus on the merchants. That's a load of shit in my opinion. Why don't they make it fucking harder to chargeback goods that were bought and used?

Dishonest consumers...know I have heard it all...a mainstream business would understand that even those people that only pay $2.95 or $1.95 or whatever, are part of the profit mix...and I strongly believe that if even a quarter of the time that the consumer knew for a minute that he was agreeing to a $29.95 membership, that the charge backs would diminish considerably.

Have you seriously even looked at the terms and conditions and slight of hand wording of most paysites today? They are all designed to ensure that the consumer "thinks" they are getting one thing when really they are "agreeing" to something else.

Oh, but now VISA is stepping in because a bunch of lazy scammers don't realize that money needs to be earned...not scammed.

Last edited by 49thParallel; 10-02-2002, 02:27 PM.
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Ludedude

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#19

10-02-2002, 02:23 PM

You've got server logs, processor logs, cookies and IP addresses. That's easily enough to prove that someone bought and jerked off to my content before charging it back.

Of course that assumes that anyone give a fuck. They don't, they'd rather stick it to the businesses than the dishonest consumers.
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#20

10-02-2002, 02:27 PM

49thParallel, are you a webmaster or surfer? Businessman or hobbist? You views seem to be very anti-business IMHO...

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#21

10-02-2002, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by 49thParallel

Dishonest consumers...know I have heard it all...a mainstream business would understand that even those people that only pay $2.95 or $1.95 or whatever, are part of the profit mix...and I strongly believe that if even a quarter of the time that the comsumer knew for a minute that he was agreeing to a $29.95 membership, that the charge backs would diminish considerably.

Have you seriously even looked at the terms and conditions and slight of hand wording of most paysites today? They are all desgined to ensure that the consumer "thinks" they are getting one thing when really they are "agreeing" to something else.

You know, that's a load of horseshit. The terms and conditions for most sites that I've seen are usually written BY THE PROCESSORS! If the processors stepped forward and didn't allow processing of kiddie porn, bestiality and the writing of dishonest terms and conditions then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess either.
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#22

10-02-2002, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Ludedude

Yes, but it's not the website operators that are the scammers. It's the dishonest consumer who has figured out he can either a) pay $2.95, jerk off and cancel or b) pay $29.95, jerk off and chargeback. Visa et al have allowed this to go on and put the onus on the merchants. That's a load of shit in my opinion. Why don't they make it fucking harder to chargeback goods that were bought and used?

Because the credit card customers view THEM as the end consumer and US as mere suppliers.

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#23

10-02-2002, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

Because the credit card customers view THEM as the end consumer and US as mere suppliers.

Yep, and there's no middle ground. The merchant gets fucked, the consumer gets off...for free.
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#24

10-02-2002, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by PureMeds

Because visa and Master Card see that 60 some percent of consumers are scared to make purchases online, which is a huge loss for them, so to encourage online purchasing they only make it easier to chargeback, thereby ridding itself of fraudsters who cannot properly dispute the chargeback.

This puts those selling services online at a huge dissadvantage because it is nearly impossible to prove that sevices were delivered. Customer can easily say they cancelled and win. Whereas with merchandise, at least you can prove that it was in fact delivered, signed for, etc.

It looks to me, and this is just a preliminary thought, that visa and Mastercard are slowly doing everything they can to consolidate the High risk market.

Like I said, the surfer is the end user and the customer in the eyes of the credit card companies. It is THEY whom they serve.

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49thParallel

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#25

10-02-2002, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Wizzo
49thParallel, are you a webmaster or surfer? Businessman or hobbist? You views seem to be very anti-business IMHO...

Webmaster...with a very firm belief in honest business practices...I find it funny that you would say "anti-business". I am very much pro business...and anti-cheating...Following this argument would make it seem that the ENRON's and Arthur Anderson's of the world would have the right approach to business....nope...I will put my dollar behind the corporations that grow through integrity and honesty
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#26

10-02-2002, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim
10% reserve is industry standard? Don't make me fucking laugh.

People that cant afford a couple hundred bucks to run their business need to get the fuck out of the business, since I guarantee you their shitty tours and most likely crappy member areas only make it worse for the rest of the people in this business.

If moving out of the US was such a great fucking idea, one would figure that IBill, CCBill, etc would all be doing it.

What seems to go unnoticed in all this talk is the fact that the scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses are the reason for this whole situation.

I guess they will all go to Globill now to keep right on scamming and then the rules will just get tighter for everyone.

Of course if it is implemented that processors can ONLY take companies located in the same region as the processor I guess Globill would either have to come back to the states or only manage non US traffic.

Yet again you are missing the point and then you go and answer it in your own thread. Oh well, they say you'll never see the bus that hits you. Its not the money, its not the $750 bucks, its not any of that.

Its the fact that if you live outside the US you cannot use a US based processor because of the new VISA regs.

Glo-Bill do not have to comply to the new VISA regs, any of them!!! I don't know the details of how they have done this, whether they've moved to the fucking moon or not isn't really the issue.

The issue is that because they are not lorded over by ANY of the new VISA regs they can process webmasters from ANYWHERE be it USA or EUROPE.

The rule about processing in their own region no longer applys to this argument it only applies to the others EPOCH, CCBILL, PayCom etc.....
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#27

10-02-2002, 02:35 PM

Well, seeing that this post is about Glo-Bill, I guess we might as well "officially" chime in.

We will not divulge the full details on our strategies for obvious reasons. We will say that we saw the writiing on the wall many months ago and started taking proactive measures since then to protect our clients' businesses to the best of our ability. The bottom line: it is business as usual at Glo-Bill, meaning:

- No set-up fees
- No monthly or annual fees
- No reporting of your private information to any outside entity
- Websites from foreign countries welcome as always without special requirements
- No Big Brother style registration forms and no scrutiny of your website by other entities
- We help you maintain your chargebacks at very low levels WITHOUT blindly declining good signups
- Still no free trials and proud of it!
- Scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses need not apply!

A. Martin

Vice President - Operations
www.Glo-Bill.com
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49thParallel

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#28

10-02-2002, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Ludedude

You know, that's a load of horseshit. The terms and conditions for most sites that I've seen are usually written BY THE PROCESSORS! If the processors stepped forward and didn't allow processing of kiddie porn, bestiality and the writing of dishonest terms and conditions then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess either.

Oh, come on...so, I am sure that you have written a letter to your processor and said..."Gee, the terms are kinda misleading...could you change them...well, I did...and I won't stop until I found a processor that wrote the terms in a manner that was parallel with my front page offerings...and treated the customer with the respect that I would demand
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#29

10-02-2002, 02:38 PM

what bothers me is that even if you pay this $750 dollar extortion fee to Visa, they are still approving each url, which means there's no guarantee of anything whatsoever. If Visa deems your url doesn't fit into their plans, you're not only out of business, but you're fucked for the $750 as a nice slap in the face on your way out.
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49thParallel

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#30

10-02-2002, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by A.Martin

- Still no free trials and proud of it!
- Scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses need not apply!

The very reason I started a thread about Globill...
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#31

10-02-2002, 02:40 PM

If this stuff about Globill is true, then that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

But something makes me wonder if Globill really knows more then IBill or CCBill or Epoch to escape these regulations.

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#32

10-02-2002, 02:41 PM

When we first started our Retail Store in 1993 we applied for a merchant account with Visa, MC and Amex.

We not only had to pay a fee for the terminal (we bought it) but we also paid $ 750.00 for setup and a yearly recurring fee to keep the credit cards. Our charge back rate is a lot higher 7% for retail.

When we first started in 96 to accept credit cards online we didn't have to pay a fee to Visa etc, but had to live with a 15% charge for the third party billing.

We accepted this since there was no yearly fee.

The $ 500.00 setup fee for CCbill is a bit steep. I can see Visa charging online Merchants the same as they do their retail Merchants. (Our Merchant account retail is with EFS and we had to jump hoops and prove our credit worthiness just to get a Merchant account) however I just don't see why excisting customers have to pay a setup fee. We are already setup, have already been doing business with 3rd party billing.

We have a backup billing company on all of our paysites. So far CCbill is the only one charging a setup fee for existing customers. Some other companies are eating the $ 250.00 yearly fee for existing merchants and not charge us.

Not much we can do about it.

If you close your account with CCbill and not pay the fee you will loose all your recurring. So there, we have to pay it.

However, Merchant accounts are not part of it. Even if we switch to our Merchant status now with ccbill, which we are able to do, we still have to pay that fee.

No way to get out, just have to pay it. The only solution

Make CCbill secondary on your paysites
Start a Merchant Account and use it as a primary
Use a billing company who does not charge the fee as a primary.

My feeling is that sooner or later Visa International will pull along with it and charge a fee. We have a swiss Visa account and after talking to my rep there yesterday he told me that Visa Europe is thinking about doing something similar like that.

It comes down to money. If Visa can get it and knows it CAN get it, it will get it

No way to run! We might as well pay our fee and suck it!

Make Paypal your primary!

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#33

10-02-2002, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by A.Martin
Well, seeing that this post is about Glo-Bill, I guess we might as well "officially" chime in.

We will not divulge the full details on our strategies for obvious reasons. We will say that we saw the writiing on the wall many months ago and started taking proactive measures since then to protect our clients' businesses to the best of our ability. The bottom line: it is business as usual at Glo-Bill, meaning:

- No set-up fees
- No monthly or annual fees
- No reporting of your private information to any outside entity
- Websites from foreign countries welcome as always without special requirements
- No Big Brother style registration forms and no scrutiny of your website by other entities
- We help you maintain your chargebacks at very low levels WITHOUT blindly declining good signups
- Still no free trials and proud of it!
- Scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses need not apply!

I love you.
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#34

10-02-2002, 02:42 PM

I've heard it all now, webmasters who think surfers are the only scammers, processors who think they can get around the credit card companies, and complete idiots who do not seem to grasp that there is way more to the situation than the surface shows.

Duh.
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#35

10-02-2002, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Brown Bear
If this stuff about Globill is true, then that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

But something makes me wonder if Globill really knows more then IBill or CCBill or Epoch to escape these regulations.

me too. sounds too good to be true.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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#36

10-02-2002, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by theking

DrewKole might oblige you as he is a changed person, or who knows he might have held you before he changed.

Lol, I love it... you and Tera say you hate me, but... in actuality, I'm mentioned in almost all of your non-relevant threads.

Don't worry, stalkers are ok, within reason... but realize that my texas gun control laws will beat up your states laws. =)

And... for the record, I would have held Labret any day of the week, he's my pal.
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#37

10-02-2002, 02:45 PM

And for the illiterates in this thread, CCBill is not the only one collecting the fees. IBill and Epoch are too, and one would figure Jettis, WSB, etc.

The fees don't go to the processors.

CCBill, for instance has never charged a setup fee to new clients, nor do they charge their clients a pass thru on any administrative fees for chargebacks, like other processors do.

And the most important point of all -- IF you have your own merchant account and you lose it, YOU then are disqualified to get ANY processing, including third party.

Which I certainly hope happens to some of you idiots.
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#38

10-02-2002, 02:48 PM

I'm just going to have surfers start mailing me money orders or using Paypal. Fuck Visa, and fuck all these money grubbing processors.
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#39

10-02-2002, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by A.Martin
Well, seeing that this post is about Glo-Bill, I guess we might as well "officially" chime in.

We will not divulge the full details on our strategies for obvious reasons. We will say that we saw the writiing on the wall many months ago and started taking proactive measures since then to protect our clients' businesses to the best of our ability. The bottom line: it is business as usual at Glo-Bill, meaning:

- No set-up fees
- No monthly or annual fees
- No reporting of your private information to any outside entity
- Websites from foreign countries welcome as always without special requirements
- No Big Brother style registration forms and no scrutiny of your website by other entities
- We help you maintain your chargebacks at very low levels WITHOUT blindly declining good signups
- Still no free trials and proud of it!
- Scammers and fraudulent practicing jackasses need not apply!

Thank you for posting ,offering your great service and standing out in the processing field .

http://nakedlunchnews.comWhat's up ? Naked Lunch News !
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49thParallel

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#40

10-02-2002, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim
And for the illiterates in this thread, CCBill is not the only one collecting the fees. IBill and Epoch are too, and one would figure Jettis, WSB, etc.

Which goes back to the whole reason for starting this thread...at this point, GLOBILL has decided on a different business model then the others..which, at least for the time being...will allow webmasters to operate without a US presence..and without the fees imposed by VISA or whomever...

The fact of the matter is, policy changes for a large corporation take months or years..so, for now, the Globill solution is most likely a sound solution.
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#41

10-02-2002, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by steffie

bTW, Hi Catalina! [/B]
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#42

10-02-2002, 02:56 PM

course globil knows wut they are doing
theyve been around for quite awhile

i'm all for globil
it aint the 750 thats or the fees or all that other shit , i run a honest business so that wont affect me

its the whole presence in USA and your bank and all that jazz taht makes things complicated

domain buyer
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Brown Bear

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#43

10-02-2002, 02:56 PM

Globill sounds too good to be true.

I hope it is though, because I'll be using them if it is true.

Its not the extra fees that bother me, its the US presence thing that is crap.

Time will tell.

Last edited by Brown Bear; 10-02-2002, 02:58 PM.

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49thParallel

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#44

10-02-2002, 02:57 PM

On a side note...when I was first looking for a processor, I tried one of the other major processors...then, to test the system, I tried subscribing for my own site with my own credit card...my card was declined...
Not only did my card have $12,000 of available credit..I have a perfect credit rating...built on 23 years of credit history...

the reasoning....cards for foreign countries are scrutinized at a higher level...

I live in Canada for god's sake...with close to the world's highest internet usage per capita...

So, I switched to Globill...no problems...no regrets

Last edited by 49thParallel; 10-02-2002, 02:58 PM.
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A.Martin

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#45

10-02-2002, 02:58 PM

To quash any rumors before they get started, let me address a few points that have been brought up in this thread.

First, Glo-Bill is not, never has and never will attempt to "get around the credit card companies". I can assure everyone that everything is above board and that Glo-Bill is in fact working very closely with BOTH the credit card industry and the merchant banking industry in the jurisdiction that we are now processing from. We are in full compliance with all regulations within our jurisdiction.

Second, this is way more than simply a jurisdictional issue. Glo-Bill had a small army of attorneys, banking experts and consultants working on this problem for more than three months. They have worked with us in crafting a unique and solid solution that will benefit both Glo-Bill and by extension all of Glo-Bill's clients.

We cannot speak for other processors and whatever paths they have chosen to go down. But by the same token, we do hope that ALL our competitors and the industry as a whole continues to prosper. That only helps all of us. Glo-Bill has simply positioned itself with a solution it regards as the most beneficial to its clients.

A. Martin

Vice President - Operations
www.Glo-Bill.com
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Brown Bear

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#46

10-02-2002, 03:01 PM

Hmmm....Glo-Bill is sounding more and more legit. I doubt that they would come on here and make statements like that if it wasn't true.

Still....time will tell

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Brown Bear

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#47

10-02-2002, 03:16 PM

After reading what CCBill CEO posted I am doubting more and more what Globill says.

Globill sounds too good to be true.

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wonton

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#48

10-02-2002, 03:21 PM

Globill is completely legit. They've always been way ahead of the pack in dealing with issues BEFORE the shit hits the fan. Before anyone was even seriously talking about chargebacks and fraud control, globill was actively pushing that - even using "fraud control" in their online banners at a time when that was something webmasters did not even want to hear about.

I'm a betting man. I bet Globill. CCbill, Epoch, iBill and the rest are not going to disappear tomorrow but I don't like their attitude, especially Chris from Eposh stating, and I quote:

" So "switch" if you will, but from what I hear, you may not be welcome when you HAVE to return. "

Fuck dat. I have no intention on "returning".
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Brown Bear

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#49

10-02-2002, 03:23 PM

Yeah, that guy from Epoch is a turd.

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Theo

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#50

10-02-2002, 03:24 PM

time will tell, it's too early for us to see all possible alternatives. Few months ago everyone said that VISA put an official end to beastiality sites.

today
http://www.bestiality.com
visa,mastercard,american express are accepted
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