mike-al

I am Anti-tube site as everyone else basically from an affiliate stand point though.. I dont have content, i dont sell content, and I dont sell memberships.. What we do do is generate traffic using sponsor provided content to that sponsor.
and for all the haters (yes I am creating TubeLand.com a tube site, but its just sponsor provided promo clips.. so please spare me the hate mail)

now onto the discussion I am curious of learning more about...

Tube Sites are a big threat to us as it has basically been a way to wipe out 10 years of our hard work, by simply giving away the cake, the batter, the frosting, using other peoples content (or in this case other peoples cake batter)

Now I dont want to get in the nitfit fight about this, we all know what
the story is, and everyones angles, and all that but as I always said to
my boss when we have a problem.. There is MORE than one way to skin a cat..

But What I don't see is people skinning cats..

For example..

You have content.... You complain it's being stolen... What are you doing to protect it? I see the exact opposite of protection being done..
I see full blown mega $$$ produced paysites going out of they way to say
COME INSIDE WE HAVE NO DRM, DRM FREE! DOWNLOAD & SAVE THE FILES ALL YOU WANT. NO BANDWIDTH RESTRICTIONS, more and more on sponsor sites than ever before..

If content is your bread and butter, why are you not protecting it?
Why are you not having software that runs thru your site that
validates /verifies it so it can only be played there?

It's just a thought that recently crossed my mind.. I am all against the content theft, but if the shit really is hitting the fan.. why are no steps being taken in this direction?


-----
(For those that dont know what DRM is, is Digital Rights Management) basically software that controls the media being played to make sure its licensed to said party.. and stuff like that)

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will76

Question, do you dislike tube sites because most of them have stolen content on them or because they give away too much content ? or both ?

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Dirty F

Drm already failed. That hype is long gone. Years ago all the big companies suddenly spent 1000's on drm. I told them all it would piss off the surfer and was made fun off and called a noob. None of those companies have DRM anymore.

seeric

Tube sites are not the devils tool to bring down the industry. It's a technology.

Just like a gun, in the wrong hands it is a dangerous weapon.

It's not the scripts fault, it's what the owner does with it. Tube is a great new technology. Used the right way, there are profitable business models in them.

seeric

what he said.

if DRM was an answer that was acceptable to the consumer, every company on the web would be using it already. it is not.

mike-al

DRM failed before because of USER IGNORANCY, AND POOR TOOLS, AND NO SUPPORT AND NO KNOWLEDGE.. I mean i remember those days on video streaming technology was so bad noone could get a program working.. that has changed so drastically now...

I believe The Wright Brothers failed too but we do have planes now right? I hear things flying above me from time to time..

Well I am just starting the conversation.. what are you doing? what cats are you skinning?, or is just whine and get screwed, while you all are building your tube sites in your spare time?

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BFT3K

BOTH - TUBE SITES WILL BE THE END OF THE ONLINE PORN BIZ.

mike-al

The placement I stand on is the following..

A) They are using sponsor content to promote other angles, and not using this free content to promote sponsor. This is wrong, and we always used sponsor provided content to promote that sponsor, and will always continue to do so, thats why they provide it to us, and thats why we send them traffic.

B) if its all their content its fine. For example Hustler now has a tube site out, hosting all their clips that are pretty large sized for free.. that is fine. I have no problem with this. It's evolution into their VOD systems. But its their content and its their choice.

C) The following kinda correalates to example A... Giving away all this "mega free" content to upsell dating memberships is idealy not good for the industry. But if you look at it, its too easy to see, they are using this content illegally based on the sponsor TOS i have seen in regards to promo content so there's no supportive issue here.. it's a sponsor/owner that has to make a stand. Sites like Top Bucks come out and announce some tube sites are legal and ok to use their content with, but they definately did not define what content... Is it just the promo content or anything anyone can get their hands on??? If I guess correctly, can i use their content to promote my new cam site? I mean if its branding that porno star, with no statements of to what use can i use promo content for, its open season?

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Eman - PG

Mike I posted this on another board:

Surfers will always go to the tube site that gives away more, longer, better movies. In the TGP/MGP world this type of "I've got the longest videos" competition didn't really exist (for some reason).

How is a 30second trailer tube site going to compete with Megaerotic hosted in Hong Kong giving away thousands of 30 minute+ stolen videos or with the tube site filled with full length licensed DVD scenes upselling Cams & dating?

will76

Thats the way I feel. If you own it or have rights to display t he content then there is nothing wrong with it. If it is stolen then that is 100% wrong.


I don't think "too much for free" is an argument anyone can make. One person might think 1 min vid is too long, someone else might think 2 mins is fine but 5 mins is too long. And then what if the video is 5 mins long but only shows nudity for the last 30 seconds... No way people can draw the line with " too much".

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mike-al

Oh I agree with you 100%, and I am just trying to bring up new points, and try to understand truly what is being done to protect oneselves.. I mean I see more than a copyright issue here. By owning one of these tube sites, now only can you be accountable for you can be basically in direct violation of a companies assets which is more than just a copyright suit. To get this content you have agreed to our companies usage policies which a) blah blah blah.. You don't have to DCMA these tubesites in this regards, its actually not copyright theft, but wrongful use theft. So you can bypass the DCMA protection laws they have using this angle. But are content owners doing anything about this? Are content providers bullying the paysite owners to start bullying this terms of service agreement? It's just one angle I have foreseen that makes me oh so scared to open one of those user uploaded tube sites.. they think they are protected via DCMA, but there are many angles to get a lawsuit in the door quicker.

Argh back to the content angle again, but oh well i think something good may have come out of this.. I'd be shitting in my pants if I was a user uploaded tube site.. thats for sure..

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Eman - PG

The stolen content issue will be reduced with time as more and more sites are driven outside of the US as they won't comply with DMCA. Outside the US bandwidth is quite expensive so their margins are much smaller. Nonetheless you will still have tube sites with stolen content.

The real problem is people actually believing that giving away more free content will lead to more sales. It will lead to more traffic but not more sales. The 'non compete' upsell is the problem here. You have people building tube sites with purchased content just to upsell dating and chat. That's great but they are conditioning millions of people daily that porn should be free. It was NOT like this in the past with TGPs and MGPs. Today bandwidth is cheaper than it has ever been in history. Yes you had a bazillion galleries out there on TGPs/MGPs, but none had 5minute movie or 30 minute movies, just samples promoting a paysite letting the surfer know they have to pay to play.

mike-al

The goal of this thread is for haters to start looking behind err rather beyond the DCMA protective barrier... When you do this you can correct your industry

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warlock5

I don't know what the future holds for the porn industry. What I do know is people predicting that tube sites are the end of everything have no future in the industry. The people who are innovating and evolving aren't taking part in the debate, they are doing.

The adult industry has a lot of smart people in it. However a lot of people, and clearly many on GFY, have to follow exact step-by-step instructions in order to do anything. I recommend sending out resumes if you are one of these people.

leedsfan

Mike i couldn't agree more. It's educating webmasters as much as it is surfers. When some tube site give away the farm by showing 30+ minute videos; mgp and tgp sites can't compete ergo...end of their business model.

I own and operate a tube site that makes its money from SPONSOR approved content. They have to approve it first, then it goes up. We only use 60-90 second clips because that way we have a chance of converting the tube novice into a paying member on CT's.

Frankly I don't see too many other business models that will sustain themselves in the long run simply because advertising alone won't drive enough revenues from freeloaders.

I do find it somewhat ironic that the loudest opposition seems to be coming from tgp/mgp owners that realise their days are numbered. Plenty of people used to hate their business model when they first came out, then it became the norm and people used the sites, and it was evolution not revolution.

Now i same the same thing with tube sites. They will become more and more niche focused, and the ones that work hard to provide the best content (of their own or from approving sponsors) will survive and thrive. Already they are being accepted by surfers, it's only a matter of time before operators of pay sites and other types of sites come around to working with them to push their content more aggressively with this newer model.

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seeric

NO. some are doing both. we are influencing and adapting with the industry as it changes. some of us must act for those who are afraid to influence or are not able to speak for themselves for fear of isolation from the cool crowd. without influence you are left to the mercy of those influencing. i'll be fucked if i'm gonna sit by and not influence the future.

seeric

they are promoting competing upsells because programs have to get each others backs. (programs that sell porn videos for a living) dating has NO skin in the content game so why should they care about any of us? there is your conflict. these tubes and torrents know how this industry works.

tony286

If someone developed a bullet proof drm that didnt fuck up. They could become very very rich. I dont have a problem with a member downloading the whole site for his own use, that's fine as long as it only stays on his computer.
I also agree somebody with a tube site wants to license or create content to give away god bless them. Its the stolen stuff and then playing dumb or saying its all user made content which is a insult to my intelligence.

sortie

The sky is falling!! No wait, that was just a signup that hit me in the head.

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mike-al

So what I am gathering is the fact, that tube sites exist, only because sponsors have failed to reach their target audience at the levels they wished to achieve or perhaps they did not realize the levels out there.. Or perhaps their greed stopped from from reaching these heights as well and they are tolerated because sponsors are seeing signups from these tube sites based on their HUGE traffic pull that in comparison would stink up the earth if compared to a traditional site.. Correct me if I am wrong, but is this what knowledge I am gathering correctly?

I mean, if the people bitching are the tgp/mgp people and not the sponsors themselves who are the ones being victumized in this scenario... Then the sponsor must be profiting from these 1-5 mega sites in MORESO fashion then what their current "affiliate" program is providing them... So they are going along with this program because they are again "failing" in their affiliate reach?

Why are the affiliate programs allowing this? I see no other reason that immediatea profit, I have seen clips on these sites I know sponsors have uploaded themselves for branding rights, typically a content shooter plugging his name, or a solo girl branding her name..... I hear this is bullshit, you have my full movies up, but i can't see how enough heat isnt generated to halt these sites... And again everyone is saying the ones whining are not the content product owners??? Im baffled...

I.E. I'll take the 20 signups today although this is really huring the industry, because at our current business level we might not have a tommorow???

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mike-al

or perhaps is it the fact they are taking the money now thinking the new XX signups a day from one site compared to their poor affiliate outreach in the future will bring these is being tossed out the window because hell the $200 a day that bringing in, can secure out foothold in our business, although we are killing an entire industry in the proccess.. thats ok, we are secure for a while???

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notoldschool

im sure you saw what i said.

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mike-al

A man with no name, is a man with no game... Come out of the closet already.. Seriously noone even reads your posts nor would you have influence on them, so why bother babbling under a fake nick?

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tony286

I highly doubt tube sites with 30 mins clips are converting to sign ups for membership sites. I think people are seeing all that traffic and assume it has be able to be converted. I bet its ads more than affiliates. You got to consider someone goes to a tube site, they are looking for free shit period. Lets not even think about all the kids going to them.

notoldschool

I figure its worthless to get into this shit and never thought I would influence anyone. I just love the great discussions of the board, but it pisses me off that people give away peoples content by taking full movies they KNOW belong to a paysite, and remove watermarks to give away to their surfers while pushing dating sites. I have personally been a victim of this type of theft. It sucks ass. It just seems like your flaunting it to everyone is all.

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Pleasurepays

there is a massive difference in what two people can achieve when working closely together toward a common goal and dealing with 5000 1/2 retarded, totally greedy fucks who would sell screen savers of their own moms blowing a goat if it could get them .40 per install.

like every other "here's what we need to get together and do" type idea that people have and have had since day 1... its going to fail before it gets started. you are talking to people who openly steal, trick, cheat etc and its just accepted. why would you think its reasonable to get everyone to suddenly unite and change something. 1/2 the assholes that are going to tell you "yeah man, tube sites suck" are busy creating a network of their own tube sites and robbing as much content as they can, as they type that response.

this business is and always has been doomed to self destruct.

will76

this is the part where when someone says " adapt or get left behind" is appropriate. Everyone can personally thank AdultFriendFinder and Cams for truely changing the industry as we know it. That company (Various Inc.) Single handedly help all of these tube sites prosper. Go check out all of the big tube sites and you will see AFF / Cams all over them.

Since dating and cams CAN make money from giving away free porn there is no stopping it now. The genie is out the bottle. Unless you people start sueing companies like AFF for profitting from stolen content there is no going back. Traditional picture and video sites will close up, unless they provide something interactive that can not be stolen and given away for free.

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mike-al

Is this directed at me because I don't know wtf your talking about..


But with your last paragraph of text, I do have a pretty good idea who you are, and can you as so as gratefully tell me if I am correct that your real "handle" starts with the letter S?

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will76

most tgp owners in regards to tube sites:



maybe the answer is in the secret GFY forum, and they looking at that page LOL

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notoldschool

No, i doubt you know me at all. Im sure youve heard of my sites but doubt you could guess me if I gave you till next year. I am curious to who you think I am that starts with S. Cant be sleazydream because he does not own a proggie from what I know, but please, who is it that you think I am?

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gideongallery

the days of mega sites hosting videos is dead, live content is where you should be
focus on using the content as taste and sell the live feeds.

Daily chats with the solo girl, or live feeds into the house (ibangpornstars.com) is the way to do

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mike-al

hehe I like how you changed up your punctuation a bit.. So you have a proggy? thats a +1 score in my book that coorealates to the S nickname

no not sleazy, give me another hint

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V_RocKs

so.... should we all start ripping off the design of RedTube and others and use TEVS?

notoldschool

LOL. Its not important and I could give you every hint in the world and you would never come close to guessing. Of course Im a program owner but Im also a decent sized affiliate for a few programs. I hate they rip shit and give it away but im also confindent that tube sites will never run me out of the biz because I can always beat them in teh SE rankings and thats the only quality traffic left.


Im sure its heading that way.

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stickyfingerz

I know you arent thinking of me. I cant stand Ron Paul. And actually agree with you nearly completely on the whole find a new way to protect your content angle, and get ripped on for that opinion.

notoldschool

You must not have read his post. The person he is talking about owns a proggie.

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-- Learned Hand

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mike-al

Care to explain what was done and what failed?
Have any of this failed technology laying around? I'd love to see it and
in this regards, it's possible I can make something happen... in very short time

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Barefootsies

I do a check a couple of times a month looking for my company's content around the net. When I find it, they are hit with a C&D and 48 hours to comply.

So I DO police our content. However, I find it hard these mack daddy, ferrrari driving, pimp hat wearing, hard partying, phat check cashing programs can't seem to police their own fucking content if they are rolling like pimps all the way to the bank.

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halfpint

Hi Barefootsies Just a bit off topic here, but do you remember that guy on the other place Trying to pay for signups I contacted the sponsor and the thread has been taken down and I got a bloody infraction and cant post until it runs out ..how good is that hey.. next time I will just keep my mouth shut I think

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mike-al

Why the constant C&D game? Once is enough for fair warning... Why not just blatent go get some change from them? Too much headache? I looking for true reason here please... Why not slap that file on em? From multiple angles other than just plain copyright theft as explained above

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Barefootsies

Yep. I was hit with infraction by the regime as well. My post was amazement at the scam. Apparently the thread started reported everyone in the thread.

Fucking ridiculous.

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Drake

But how is that different than a TGP if the clips are so short? The tube novice is a dwindling % of surfers and as others have said, they go where the clips are longest. How can a tube showing a 2 minute preview compete with a tube that shows entire videos? I'm just trying to understand how this is a way to evolve in the long term. Tube and torrent sites also have just about every niche covered.

Barefootsies

You want a reason businesswise?

Time and money. I hit them with a C&D, they remove it. Put it in their system to block those files, or give you a tool to remove shit yourself (Google/YouTube).

It's not perfect, but it's a start.

I do not know if you do or do not have content, since I am typing this and not looking at the thread. But if you do, and had to police it, you would understand what I mean in this game.

Vivid isn't going to take the time tracking their shit down. They are just going to hit you with some broad lawsuit. Good for them. They have the time and money to tie up the shit in courts. By that time they get to court, the offender will have removed their shit. Something a simple C&D could have done.

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mike-al

kinda sounds like that guy that got robbed out in the boonies/suburbs, who has locks on his door but never locks it.. "Hell, who around here is gonna rob me??" I knows em all and we's all cool!"

Then one day.. hey mom, did wheesa get robbed? everythign seem to be a missin...

Sounds like you can care less about the problem, just wanna whine about it in HOPES it goes away... Kinda how we felt about terrorism and look what its become

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mike-al

So it's legal to steal part time? I can steal your car, but if I return it by the time we get to court, no harm no foul?

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Barefootsies

Wrong bitch.

Unlike many, I actively police my stuff. I do not whine about it on GFY and hope it goes away by the magic mike-al genie.

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DaddyHalbucks

Yes, but every time a thief is hit with a lawsuit, it is one more leak in the boat. They have to hire a lawyer, and they are expensive.

Lawsuits are the solution.

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quantum-x

Interestingly, I developed a solution that stopped content theft / content being spread to torrent sites etc IN ITS TRACKS - and contacted over 50 affiliate programs.

You know what? Not one single program was willing to pay even $200 a month to be covered, or to try to prevent the problem.

Seems like there are a lot of empty vessels around here...

mike-al

Sorry, Please forgive me but I just dont understand your business principals... You waste time policing it, but knowing your going to do nothing about it?

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Barefootsies

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, Vivid has the time and resources to do it. Those of us who are smaller companies do not... time or resources.

It's pretty much common sense on the business side of things for smaller companies. You have to C&D them, if they do not remove it (99% do) you then go and knocking on the doors of their billing company, registrar, and host.

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