Germany moves to ban Scientology

[markyman]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html


BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Germany's top security officials said Friday they consider the goals of the Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and will seek to ban the organization.


The German government considers Scientology a commercial enterprise.

The interior ministers of the nation's 16 states plan to give the nation's domestic intelligence agency the task of preparing the necessary information to ban the organization, which has been under observation for a decade on allegations that it "threatens the peaceful democratic order" of the country.

The ministers, as well as federal Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, "consider Scientology to be an organization that is not compatible with the constitution," said Berlin Interior Minister Ehrhart Koerting, who presided over the officials' two-day conference.

Sabine Weber, president of the Church of Scientology in Berlin, said she views the renewed attempt to ban the organization as a reaction to increasing acceptance of Scientologists in several European countries.

"It is very, very clear that the true picture of what Scientology is about is pushing its way through," Weber said. "The interior ministers are clearly reacting to that."

The Scientologists have long battled to end the surveillance, saying it is an abuse of their right to freedom of religion. They point to several lower court rulings in favor of their right to practice in Germany as a religious organization.

The U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany in its annual Human Rights Report for the monitoring practice.

The interior ministers gave no specific examples for their decision, but the most recent annual report on extremism compiled by their agencies criticized the organization for disregarding human rights

[GrouchyAdmin]

I remember when they tried this before. Godspeed, you crazy (sane) Krauts.

[Babaganoosh]

and they say the US is oppressive...

[uno]

Ze Germans are obviously in cahoots with Lord Xenu.

[=^..^=]

GERMANS BEWARE - John Travolta is flying his plane your way right now to bomb your asses - Tom Cruise is his co-pilot

[Shagbunny]

Originally Posted by =^..^=

GERMANS BEWARE - John Travolta is flying his plane your way right now to bomb your asses - Tom Cruise is his co-pilot

[TTiger]

the greath Xenu will be angry

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by markyman

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Germany's top security officials said Friday they consider the goals of the Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and will seek to ban the organization.

The German government considers Scientology a commercial enterprise.

The U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany in its annual Human Rights Report for the monitoring practice.

Sure... throw em all into the ocean as shark food It has nothing to do with a "church" - just another warped sect formed by Ron Hubbard. Germany may be senstive to weirdo cults and with good cause.

The last para "The U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany in its annual Human Rights Report for the monitoring practice." is so damned funny

We got a prime violator of human rights "criticzing" another country??? *lol*

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

We got a prime violator of human rights "criticzing" another country??? *lol*

of course!!!
thats the US policy on everything:
"you are not allowed to do that/ have that.. ONLY WE ARE ALLOWED!!!"

just like the nukes

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

and they say the US is oppressive...

So you're condoning a cult that ruins lives?

Props on germanys part for the brave move.

[nico-t]

scientology is commercial huh... what about the retarded christian and muslim religions.... nah there's no money there. Im all for banning religions, but ban them ALL. The muslim and christian religions are the two most dangerious, violent and sick religions.

[Babaganoosh]

Originally Posted by buzzy

So you're condoning a cult that ruins lives?

Props on germanys part for the brave move.

I support the freedom to choose. I personally despise every organized religion but I would never support anyone who wanted to outlaw a religion. It wasn't very long ago that some dude in Germany developed a serious dislike for Jews. Can you remember his name? I'll bet you can.

[GrouchyAdmin]

GODWIN IN TWELVE POSTS

Shit, I called seven. Who won?

[Pornopat]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

It wasn't very long ago that some dude in Germany developed a serious dislike for Jews. Can you remember his name? I'll bet you can.

That is a very childish and populistic comparisson.

[Babaganoosh]

Originally Posted by Pornopat

That is a very childish and populistic comparisson.

Too bad that you don't see the similarities. You aren't a German citizen I hope.

[tony286]

dont think its a bad thing.

[D]

Interesting.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by nico-t

scientology is commercial huh... what about the retarded christian and muslim religions.... nah there's no money there.

I don't believe there is any fee to become a muslim or a christian. You must pay a fee to join the Church of Scientology(TM).

The muslim and christian religions are the two most dangerious, violent and sick religions.

Care to elaborate on that in a modern context?

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

I support the freedom to choose. I personally despise every organized religion but I would never support anyone who wanted to outlaw a religion.

What's a religon?? Scientology??

You are talking about an organization formed by a total nutcase - a thief, liar and scammer - Ron Hubbard. You are talking about an fraudulent organization which extorts, detains people without their consent, has been responsible for several deaths (a few resulting directly from their kidnapping operations).

Neither freedom or religon has anything to do with "scientology" - it's simply yet another lunatic puported "religous" cult which clearly needs criminal prosecution.

Here's a quick intro....
Scientology: Inside the Cult

[Babaganoosh]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

What's a religon?? Scientology??

You are talking about an organization formed by a total nutcase - a thief, liar and scammer - Ron Hubbard. You are talking about an fraudulent organization which extorts, detains people without their consent, has been responsible for several deaths (a few resulting directly from their kidnapping operations).

Neither freedom or religon has anything to do with "scientology" - it's simply yet another lunatic puported "religous" cult which clearly needs criminal prosecution.

Here's a quick intro....
Scientology: Inside the Cult

I know more about Scientology than I ever wanted to. My old roommate's entire family was into it. She and I had numerous heated discussions about Scientology and religion in general. I completely agree that it's a convoluted, cultish religion but as much as I disagree with it, I have to disagree with banning anyone's beliefs even more.

[SifuE]

guess Tom Cruise is leaving...lol

[Pornopat]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

Too bad that you don't see the similarities. You aren't a German citizen I hope.

I am not and you are proving my point.
You are making this a "german" issue.

In ww2 the dictator (as in non-democratic) Hitler went after the people from the Jewish religion cause of hate using violence.

In this case a democratic government is going after what is a threat to democracy using democratix means. Scientology thinks it is above any countries government.

Read the articles and try to form an independent opinion instead of trying to make a simple score?

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

I know more about Scientology than I ever wanted to. My old roommate's entire family was into it. She and I had numerous heated discussions about Scientology and religion in general. I completely agree that it's a convoluted, cultish religion but as much as I disagree with it, I have to disagree with banning anyone's beliefs even more.

Sure... appreciate the belief aspect, tho it's not even really about beliefs.

The majority of people within this cult are just victims and it's hard to "blame" them unless they start the usual criminal conduct. It's basically a criminal organization which gets involved in violent assaults, fraud, blackmail etc and causes considerable damage to others - it's like having "beliefs" in the Mafia

Clearwater (Fla) has had considerable problems for years with Hubbard's scam. Here's another example based around the Clearwater area - Scientology and the Clearwater Police and an example of police corruption/abuse.

Death squads can come in handy for removing human trash

[Scootermuze]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

I don't believe there is any fee to become a muslim or a christian. You must pay a fee to join the Church of Scientology(TM).
Care to elaborate on that in a modern context?

R. Hubbard said the fastest way to make a lot of money is to start a religion...

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by markyman

The German government considers Scientology a commercial enterprise.

And the Catholic church isn't?

[Babaganoosh]

Originally Posted by Pornopat

In this case a democratic government is going after what is a threat to democracy using democratix means.

A true democratic government wouldn't try to ban a religion. Why is that so tough for you to understand?

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

And the Catholic church isn't?

Not really - you don't have to pay any money to get in. In fact you don't ever have to pay any money if you don't want to.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

A true democratic government wouldn't try to ban a religion.

That's the whole point man - it has nothing to do with religion - it's a criminal organization.

Apart from well-known US activities, a fair number of prosecutors in EU countries have charges pending (tho may now have been heard) against members and police have had reason to conduct numerous raids, not only on scientology properties, but also on associated offices of "consultants" etc.

This crap is nothing new - my best friend is a law agent - she arrested a fair number of these idiots over the years - most were far less "offensive" and included the ludicrous, scamming Jim Bakker and his jewellry-dripping wife. Never confuse these people with religon - they are crooks and leech off a gullible element of the US public. It has nothing to do with "freedoms" or "beliefs".

The idea this is anything other than a fraudulent operation is hard to envisage. The "acceptance" of fraud and extortion disguised as a lunatic religon is unlikely to be tolerated much outside the US.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

Not really - you don't have to pay any money to get in. In fact you don't ever have to pay any money if you don't want to.

I don't care if you have to let the priest ass fuck you before you can join the Church of Scientology, people's religious beliefs are their business, so long as they're not harming others.

I don't think the German government, you, me, or anyone else should be deciding what religions are "legal"

That's a slippery fucking slope.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Pornopat

In this case a democratic government is going after what is a threat to democracy using democratix means. Scientology thinks it is above any countries government.

You don't think other religions feel they are "above any countries government"

If you gave a die-hard Christian the choice of obeying Jesus or obeying the law of the country he lives in, which do you think he would choose?

Just because most people think scientologists are goofy doesn't matter, you don't get to decide what religion someone else gets to practice.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Just because most people think scientologists are goofy doesn't matter...

Being goofy was never a crime SD and people can believe in magic or the fairy godmother if it suits them. When they start committing offenses and harming others in the name of "goofyness" - it's time to lock em up. Then it's irrelevant what their "religon" is - who cares? They can practice their "religon" in a jail cell and play the snake oil salesman with the other cons and maybe screw them out of their bank robbery proceeds

[Snake Doctor]

This message is hidden because GreyWolf is on your ignore list.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

This message is hidden because GreyWolf is on your ignore list.

Obviously the ignore list don't work too well

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

You don't think other religions feel they are "above any countries government"

If you gave a die-hard Christian the choice of obeying Jesus or obeying the law of the country he lives in, which do you think he would choose?

Just because most people think scientologists are goofy doesn't matter, you don't get to decide what religion someone else gets to practice.

I agree - I don't think governments should be banning religions.

But your comparison of catholicism and scientology in terms of commercialism is way off.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

You don't think other religions feel they are "above any countries government"

If you gave a die-hard Christian the choice of obeying Jesus or obeying the law of the country he lives in, which do you think he would choose?

Just because most people think scientologists are goofy doesn't matter, you don't get to decide what religion someone else gets to practice.

The scriptures teach one to obey the laws of the land and Jesus said to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars...so if one is a Christian they should follow the scriptures.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

I agree - I don't think governments should be banning religions.

But your comparison of catholicism and scientology in terms of commercialism is way off.

I dunno, when the catholic church asked members of my family to buy a life insurance policy and name the church as the beneficiary, that felt pretty "commercial" to me.

[Drake]

What's scientology all about? What part of it conflicts with the German Constitution?

[V_RocKs]

Yeah... Tom Cruise.. All I have to say...

[crockett]

Xenu (sometimes Xemu) is introduced as an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. Scientologists believe the alien souls continue to do this today, causing a variety of physical ill-effects in modern-day humans. Hubbard called these clustered spirits "Body Thetans", and the advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating them and neutralizing their ill effects.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by crockett

Xenu (sometimes Xemu) is introduced as an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs.

Yea yea - don't start Crocket or we'll be reading a serious analysis about Xenu on GFY next about how this is a religion and how naughty the German govt are to ban it

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by theking

The scriptures teach one to obey the laws of the land and Jesus said to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars...so if one is a Christian they should follow the scriptures.

Yeah is that why they bomb abortion clinics and threaten pregnant women who are trying to get an abortion?

And honestly we shouldn't be arguing over the minutae of any religion....the point is people should have the right to practice whatever religion they want, whenever they want, however they want......so long as their doing so doesn't cause harm to others.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by crockett

Xenu (sometimes Xemu) is introduced as an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. Scientologists believe the alien souls continue to do this today, causing a variety of physical ill-effects in modern-day humans. Hubbard called these clustered spirits "Body Thetans", and the advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating them and neutralizing their ill effects.

Yeah and christians believe that jesus was born to a virgin, was perfect, rose from the dead, and cares about every little thing that happens in your life.

Yet somehow you think this story about Xenu is more preposterous?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by =^..^=

GERMANS BEWARE - John Travolta is flying his plane your way right now to bomb your asses - Tom Cruise is his co-pilot

That's funny!

[ServerGenius]

ALL RELIGIONS ARE CULTS....there is no god there never was and never will be.
I agree with that people should be able to believe what they like to believe as
long as they don't harm others with it......unfortenately ALL religions seem to
do that in 1 way or another 1 worse than others......

90% of ALL wars were fought about religion or in the name of religion.....The
Churches their death toll make Hitler's death toll like a complete joke......yet
they all preach peace, love and happiness for the world.....

Don't do this, don't do that...this is evil, that's evil, if you don't obey you
will burn eternaly in agonising pain in Hell......but God loves you.....hahaha
I pitty the sheep that need something like religion to be able to deal with
life, failure and themselves.....but then again as long as they don't bother
me with it......I don't mind.....at times it's great inspiration for histerical
entertainment......so I guess it has a good side too....

that's my 2 cents on the subject.......

[Klen]

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

ALL RELIGIONS ARE CULTS....there is no god there never was and never will be.
I agree with that people should be able to believe what they like to believe as
long as they don't harm others with it......unfortenately ALL religions seem to
do that in 1 way or another 1 worse than others......

90% of ALL wars were fought about religion or in the name of religion.....The
Churches their death toll make Hitler's death toll like a complete joke......yet
they all preach peace, love and happiness for the world.....

Don't do this, don't do that...this is evil, that's evil, if you don't obey you
will burn eternaly in agonising pain in Hell......but God loves you.....hahaha
I pitty the sheep that need something like religion to be able to deal with
life, failure and themselves.....but then again as long as they don't bother
me with it......I don't mind.....at times it's great inspiration for histerical
entertainment......so I guess it has a good side too....

that's my 2 cents on the subject.......

Can you prove there is no God ?

[ServerGenius]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Can you prove there is no God ?

I think the world and our history has provided more than enough to proof
for that.....Religion is man invented to control the masses

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

ALL RELIGIONS ARE CULTS....

Hehe... this ain't even a cult - it's a criminal organization based on the ravings of a manipulative, lying, scamming pulp fiction writer - Hubbard. There remain questions over deaths in his family, particulary relating to Quentin Hubbard, his son, who died under "mysterious circumstances" and where the coroner has unresolved issues.

These people are definately "evil" - not talking about the gullible members who, on occasion, have been involved in criminal activity on behalf of the hierarchy - but more re the hierarchy themselves.

US LE is already well-aware of their activity and monitoring - same in the EU - there are a number of "Task Forces" dealing with the antics of CoS in several Euro countries. It's kinda like a combo of the Mafia and Jehovah's Witnesses - tho the latter doesn't attract the attention of LE or security/intelligence services

Hell.. got no problem seeing them wiped out and all assets seized and returned to the victims of their scams

[ServerGenius]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

Hehe... this ain't even a cult - it's a criminal organization based on the ravings of a manipulative, lying, scamming pulp fiction writer - Hubbard. There remain questions over deaths in his family, particulary relating to Quentin Hubbard, his son, who died under "mysterious circumstances" and where the coroner has unresolved issues.

These people are definately "evil" - not talking about the gullible members who, on occasion, have been involved in criminal activity on behalf of the hierarchy - but more re the hierarchy themselves.

US LE is already well-aware of their activity and monitoring - same in the EU - there are a number of "Task Forces" dealing with the antics of CoS in several Euro countries. It's kinda like a combo of the Mafia and Jehovah's Witnesses - tho the latter doesn't attract the attention of LE or security/intelligence services

Hell.. got no problem seeing them wiped out and all assets seized and returned to the victims of their scams

All religions have similar backgrounds.....take a look at the history of the
catholic church.....it makes scientology look peaceful

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

All religions have similar backgrounds.....take a look at the history of the
catholic church.....it makes scientology look peaceful

Sure - they all played a role in abuse, oppression and torture for centuries

Hubbard only started in the 50's - his mafia have plenty more time yet for more killings, frauds, extortion, blackmail ad nausea

But, but, but... it's a church

[xmas13]

Originally Posted by ServerGenius

ALL RELIGIONS ARE CULTS....there is no god there never was and never will be.
I agree with that people should be able to believe what they like to believe as
long as they don't harm others with it......unfortenately ALL religions seem to
do that in 1 way or another 1 worse than others......

90% of ALL wars were fought about religion or in the name of religion.....The
Churches their death toll make Hitler's death toll like a complete joke......yet
they all preach peace, love and happiness for the world.....

Don't do this, don't do that...this is evil, that's evil, if you don't obey you
will burn eternaly in agonising pain in Hell......but God loves you.....hahaha
I pitty the sheep that need something like religion to be able to deal with
life, failure and themselves.....but then again as long as they don't bother
me with it......I don't mind.....at times it's great inspiration for histerical
entertainment......so I guess it has a good side too....

that's my 2 cents on the subject.......

Yeah, agree 100%.