Need advice

[theking]

A friend called me about an hour ago. He wanted to borrow some money. I won't loan him anymore money, as he already owes me more than I ever expect to get back. He wanted the money to catch his credit card payments up. He said he has about $10,000-$11,000 credit card debt and has a half dozen or more cards that he is three months behind on payments on all of them and is being dunned to death. According to him they are calling late at night and waking him up to dunn him. His job does not pay him enough to carry that kind of debt. He claimed he does not even have enough money to hire a lawyer to file for bankrupcty and said something about new bankruptcy laws. He asked me if I knew what they would do to him if he just said to hell with it and called them and told them he couldn't pay anymore. I told him I don't know because I do not have any experience in that area. I don't know anything about bankruptcy law either. By the way he has a gambling habit.

What can they do to him if he justs says sorry I can't pay anymore. What would be an average cost to hire an attorney and the cost of filing for a bankruptcy. What new laws is he speaking about. Anyone have any knowledge in these areas?

[Backov]

I can't be the only one who when he hears "Friend with a gambling habit" thinks "Tony Soprano and the sporting goods store guy"..

I guess I'm just bad that way.

As for your problem, what they will probably do is try to get a payment plan out of him. He probably just needs to file for bankruptcy. And get some GA.

Cheers,
Backov

[Brown Bear]

I think the people that he owes money can sue him and claim his wages and any assets he has if they win.

[Amputate Your Head]

sounds like bankruptcy is his best best... I'd suggest he scrape up the cash and pay the bankruptcy attorney to file the papers.... it's not that expensive.

As for what can the creditors do to him if he says "Sorry".... his Hell will have only just begun. They will destroy him. He'll never have credit again for the rest of his life. Eventually the collection agencies will take over and extract everything they possibly can from him.... including, but not limited to, his house (if he has one) his car (if he has one) furniture, etc.... as well as garnishing any wages he may be receiving, tax returns, the works....

it's no small matter, and believe me..... you don't just tell your creditors that you're *sorry, can't pay ya*... yeah, they'll start off trying to work out payment plans... but if he takes it to the extreme.... they will redefine extreme for him.

[theking]

What is the deal on these debt relief programs that spam your E-mail and seem to be in abundance on the net. Are they legit. Can any of them really help lower payments and interest etc. and what do they get out of it?

[BJ]

yes they'll help lower your monthly payments, but they'll also fuck your credit for at least three years, considering that all they are is a company that buys debt at pennies on the dollar

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by theking
What is the deal on these deal on these debt relief programs that spam your E-mail and seem to be in abundance on the net. Are they legit. Can any of them really help lower payments and interest etc. and what do they get out of it?

yeah.... they're legit.

Here's the deal though.... they're basically a financial consulting firm. What they do is sit down with you and evaluate and organize your bills, debts, income, etc.... they draw up a plan/budget for you and you stick to it to get your shit paid off. It's heavy duty.... it's not paying $10 bucks a month to Visa, and $15 bucks to Mastercard.... it's the opposite..... you pay them (your creditors) everything humanly possible until the shit is paid off, while you're eating cold beans and spending $50 bucks a month on groceries.... (forget about buying anything else)..... it's basically a budget plan for the very desperate.

What's in it for them? Well, you generally don;t pay them anything..... they get paid by the companies/creditors that you owe money to.

I've never personally gone through one of those.... never had the need... but they do work. It's brutal.... like, 6 months of brutal.... depends how deep into debt you are.... but it does work if you can survive it.

[Amputate Your Head]

that's another type of debt relief that PureMeds mentioned, where they buy out your debt..... not a good solution in my opinion though, cuz like he said... you're fucked when they're done with you.

[theking]

Originally posted by PureMeds
yes they'll help lower your monthly payments, but they'll also fuck your credit for at least three years, considering that all they are is a company that buys debt at pennies on the dollar

Is this a better route to take than bankruptcy. Are all of these debt relief programs legit, if not do you know of any that are legit. How does one check to see if they are legit?

[BJ]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head

yeah.... they're legit.

Here's the deal though.... they're basically a financial consulting firm. What they do is sit down with you and evaluate and organize your bills, debts, income, etc.... they draw up a plan/budget for you and you stick to it to get your shit paid off. It's heavy duty.... it's not paying $10 bucks a month to Visa, and $15 bucks to Mastercard.... it's the opposite..... you pay them (your creditors) everything humanly possible until the shit is paid off, while you're eating cold beans and spending $50 bucks a month on groceries.... (forget about buying anything else)..... it's basically a budget plan for the very desperate.

What's in it for them? Well, you generally don;t pay them anything..... they get paid by the companies/creditors that you owe money to.

I've never personally gone through one of those.... never had the need... but they do work. It's brutal.... like, 6 months of brutal.... depends how deep into debt you are.... but it does work if you can survive it.

except for the fact they fuck your credit,,,, its a simple equation, they are BUYING your debt so that creditirs can at least recoup .75 on the dollar.

[BJ]

Originally posted by theking


Is this a better route to take than bankruptcy. Are all of these debt relief programs legit, if not do you know of any that are legit. How does one check to see if they are legit?

its better than bankruptcy, just make sure you deal with a non-for profit one

[Amputate Your Head]

yep... but it's less of a fucking than a full blown bankruptcy is.... bankruptcy is ten years.

[Amputate Your Head]

it's a trade off bro.... you gotta make the decision which means more to you.... credit re-establishment, or nuking the debt as painlessly as possible.

The credit relief will HELP you... you still pay the debts.

Bankruptcy nukes all the debts (unless they're student/government loans or child support) instantly.... you don't pay back a fucking dime. But your credit is fucked for a decade. (normally less for credit cards.... but fully for things like buying a house)

[Pornwolf]

They won't throw him in jail or anything. At least not for that little amount of debt.

Sounds like he needa a new SS. A criminal genious from Detroit that I know said something about starting over this way. I suggest asking around to see if any shifty characters can help him out with this... for a small fee of course.

[BJ]

look at it this way, you could either serve the detention, or drop out of school

[Amputate Your Head]

I've been there dude.... I took the road to bankruptcy. I'm one year away from the end of my punishment.

hard to believe that shit happened nine years ago.....

wow....

[Amputate Your Head]

just remember.... once you file bankruptcy.... you can't do it again for at least 10 years... so make sure it's worth it. And forget about running up the CC's to the limits right before filing.... they'll burn you for it. Forget completely about having any kind of credit for at least 4 years.

When I filed, I was $50k in the hole and sinking fast.... and completely not my fault.. it was all my ex-wife's doing... but, community property state said I was just as fucked. So for me, it was worth it.... filed on a Wednesday.... left the bitch on Thursday.

[BJ]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
I've been there dude.... I took the road to bankruptcy. I'm one year away from the end of my punishment.

hard to believe that shit happened nine years ago.....

wow....

I learned my lesson when I was only 18, but Im happy to say I have 0 debt to any creditors, including my condo and car which is entirely payed for (really) by the anger that being in debt caused me.

[Amputate Your Head]

I'm right there with ya PM..... that shit I went through with my ex-wife put a fuckin' fury in me that will never die..... I fuckin' HATE debt... I'm happy to say that 9 years later, I have the best credit of my life... zero balances & limits that breach ridiculous levels.... and doing extremely well.

[theking]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
it's a trade off bro.... you gotta make the decision which means more to you.... credit re-establishment, or nuking the debt as painlessly as possible.

The credit relief will HELP you... you still pay the debts.

Bankruptcy nukes all the debts (unless they're student/government loans or child support) instantly.... you don't pay back a fucking dime. But your credit is fucked for a decade. (normally less for credit cards.... but fully for things like buying a house)

He is a chonic gambler. That is how he got into so much debt. He owns a single wide mobile and an old car. His job only pays him $8.40 per hour, so I don't know how he even qualified to get so many credit cards with between 10 and 11 thousand indebtedness. Let me see if I am tracking this right. It sounds like just not paying is not an option. If he delcares bankruptcy this ruins his credit for ten years, but wipes out all of the debt. Will he be allowed to keep his car and mobile, both of them combined are probably only worth $8,000.00. These credit relief programs will make him pay through the nose until all of the debt is paid, but his credit remains good. Do I have it correct?

[Amputate Your Head]

if he files bankruptcy and he owes on his car and mobile.... he could very well lose them unless he's willing to pay off those debts. Yes... they will take his shit.

[Amputate Your Head]

I owed money on living room furniture when I filed.... I told the company in Arizona to "go ahead.... come to Wisconsin and take the shit"....

they did.

[theking]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
if he files bankruptcy and he owes on his car and mobile.... he could very well lose them unless he's willing to pay off those debts. Yes... they will take his shit.

He has had the mobile for years so I am pretty sure that he doesn't owe on it and I know the car is paid for. I am the one that sold it to him.

[theking]

He said he is three months behind on all of his payments. What do these debt relief programs do about that, or will they take him while he is that far behind?

[BJ]

hers a sad fact, and I mean this in no disrespect to my elders, but I know fully grown (40 -50 yr olds) who are trading stock on credit cards, and not only that they are also holding margin accounts on a credit card (borrowing against debt and against debt if that makes sense) It literally makes me sick but I am glad I learned very early before my life got so out of hand.

[Amputate Your Head]

his car should be safe if it's free and clear.... and especially if it's his only vehicle. He's gotta get to work somehow.

His mobile could possibly be in jeopardy.... I'm not 100% sure on that.... the attorney would know that better than me.

The debt relief will help him regardless of how deep he is....

so.... let me catch up here:

He's 3 months behind on payments....
and he's in for approx. $11k

that right?

[theking]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
his car should be safe if it's free and clear.... and especially if it's his only vehicle. He's gotta get to work somehow.

His mobile could possibly be in jeopardy.... I'm not 100% sure on that.... the attorney would know that better than me.

The debt relief will help him regardless of how deep he is....

so.... let me catch up here:

He's 3 months behind on payments....
and he's in for approx. $11k

that right?

That is right.

[Amputate Your Head]

and he makes about $8.40 an hour....

family? Kids to support? Anything like that?

[theking]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
and he makes about $8.40 an hour....

family? Kids to support? Anything like that?

No. He has never married and he does not have any kids to support. And yes, he makes $8.40 per hour and works forty per week.

[BJ]

Im young but He should really go the debt management route. look at it this way, if you were owed, you'd rather recoup the debt than writing it off at a loss. Your friend should at least make right on what he owes regardless of who's assuming the risk. Those debt management companies, once he speaks to them, will make him feel alot better about it. Thats why they call them debt counselors.

[Amputate Your Head]

okay... so no family, no wife = no additional mandatory debts, yet no supplemental income from the wife either....

Based on the info given, here's my recommendation:

1. He's not deep enough into debt to file bankruptcy.

2. He needs to either have the strength to take it upon himself to stop gambling immediately, or seek professional help to help him eliminate gambling from the situation. RIGHT NOW.

3. He needs to seek debt counseling. They will set up a budget plan for him to repay his debts in short order. He'll be hungry for a while, but at this point, it's probably worth it. He's single with no family, so it's only him that's going to be hungry for a while.

4. He needs to cut up every credit card he has.

Yes.... all of them.

5. Do NOT loan this guy money.... you're only helping him fall deeper into the hole. He's not going to put any money to good use until he corrects the problem.

6. Talk to him. Explain that he is gonna hafta do without until he's out of the red zone. The credit counselors will do this, but it has more strength coming from a friend as well.



there's no easy way out..... he's gonna hafta get his shit together and grow up. That's the best path. There are other paths.... but you asked... and that's my advice.

[BJ]

his credit does not remain *good* but it remains better than if he files bankruptcy. Basically his credit will appear as "hey, I messed up, but at least Im making an effort to repay my debts"

[Amputate Your Head]

the reason I was able to salvage some face an retain some good standing in the credit department when I filed, is because I worked the system a little..... there were a few debts that bankruptcy wouldn't take care of.... but more importantly, I picked out a few people that I decided I *wanted* to pay back..... some bankers...... I even put it in writing for them... and paid them back every stinkin' dime. The rest on the list.... they all got to eat a dick.

But it worked.... 4 years later I had credit coming out my ass.

If he goes the bankruptcy route... the number one rule is:

Stop thinking, stop listening to anyone else, and let your attorney take over. Don't fucking promise anyone anything.... don't pay anyone.... not even his own mother.. don;t wipe your ass unless the attorney says it's cool. He'll have to fill out a list of every single thing he owes on... personal debts as well. Regardless of whether or not he intends to pay some of them back. Say nothing, do nothing. Once that shit is filed..... the creditors have 90 days to protest it..... if he gets caught paying anything to anyone in that time..... games over.

[theking]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
okay... so no family, no wife = no additional mandatory debts, yet no supplemental income from the wife either....

Based on the info given, here's my recommendation:

1. He's not deep enough into debt to file bankruptcy.

2. He needs to either have the strength to take it upon himself to stop gambling immediately, or seek professional help to help him eliminate gambling from the situation. RIGHT NOW.

3. He needs to seek debt counseling. They will set up a budget plan for him to repay his debts in short order. He'll be hungry for a while, but at this point, it's probably worth it. He's single with no family, so it's only him that's going to be hungry for a while.

4. He needs to cut up every credit card he has.

Yes.... all of them.

5. Do NOT loan this guy money.... you're only helping him fall deeper into the hole. He's not going to put any money to good use until he corrects the problem.

6. Talk to him. Explain that he is gonna hafta do without until he's out of the red zone. The credit counselors will do this, but it has more strength coming from a friend as well.



there's no easy way out..... he's gonna hafta get his shit together and grow up. That's the best path. There are other paths.... but you asked... and that's my advice.

Because he is a chronic gambler, is the reason I personally won't loan him any more money. I was tempted to catch his payments up for him, but I know that it wouldn't do any good to do so. He will just let them fall behind again. Believe me I have talked to him many times and he will walk the straight and narrow for awhile but starts gambling again. It is like he is hooked on drugs.

Ok guys it sounds like debt relief is the way to adivse him to go. I take it that you are saying any of them are legit and find one that says non-profit. Thanks for the advice guys. I will call him in the morning and lay it out for him. I don't think debt relief will work for him either because if he didn't make the other payments there is not any reason why he would make these payments especially if they are going to be even heavier payments than what he was making in the first place. That part I don't understand though, because some of them say things like reduce your payments by 60%.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by theking
That part I don't understand though, because some of them say things like reduce your payments by 60%.

somewhat true... mostly marketing though..... they may help him consolidate some bills, meaning he'll have less payments, but the one's he does make will be larger.

Sounds to me like this guy hasn't quite hit bottom just yet....

when he hit's $50k+ in the red, maybe he'll start getting serious about fixing it.

[Mr.Fiction]

If he is going to file bankruptcy, he should do it soon. The new laws they are trying to pass are a lot more harsh. From what I read, you cannot easily get rid of your debt through bankruptcy under the new bill - something about making you pay it off over time even if you do file.

You'd have to do some research, but I think the bills are being held up right now because Republicans want to make an exemption for abortion protestors who get sued, or something like that.

[pipp]

ack the "I only call/contact you when I need somthing" Friends. I got a bunch of those. Don't take the phone when they call anymore. They always have some hidden agenda.

[theking]

Well my friend is now enrolled with a group for addictions. Addictions in general, including gambling. He signed up with a debt relief program, but what they told him sounds a little to good to be true to me. He has eight credit cards in total. The interest rates vary but at least one of them was almost 25% and he was told that they could get that down to 9.9%. Does that sound reasonable? Over all they told him that on all of the cards the interest rates would be reduced, not as dramatically as the one that was almost 25%, but still dramatic decreases in interest rates. He said that he signed up with a non-profit debt relief program, but still has to pay them $6.00 per card for what they call a handling fee. With eight credit cards this amounts to $48.00 but even with their handling fee his overall payment will only be $9.00 more per month than what his minimum payments were to begin with. In addition his entire debt is supposed to be paid off in something over four years compared to the fifteen to twenty-five years it would have taken him without entering a debt relief program. Does any of this sound to good to be true?

[Voodoo]

Tell him to move. Move to a new location, and don't do a change of address. Get a better job, and wait it out for the next 10-11 years. Eventually, the creditors will find him, at which point, he should move again. Keep the creditors chasing him, and eventually the debt will drop off.

Or something else he can do, is to let the debt go delinquent, and get forwarded to Equifax etc...
Once the debt is there, you can normally get the debt reduced. Equifax will haggle with you to reduce your debt. I've heard them go even as low as 50%.

Think of it this way. Once Equifax gets the debt, the original creditor has "written" the debt off as a loss. They no longer give a shit about you. Equifax doesn't give a shit either, because they don't lose anything to haggle with you. They know that if they don't haggle, then they will get ZERO from you. So, they will usually work with you, and you can setup payment arrangements with them also.

In either case, let him know that huge debts are not the end of the world, and to keep his chin up. Also, go punch is face and knock his teeth out, as you yell at him "STOP GAMBLING! KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF! NO YOU WILL NEVER HIT A JACKPOT!!! STOP BEING STUPID!".

Just my

[theking]

Originally posted by theking
Well my friend is now enrolled with a group for addictions. Addictions in general, including gambling. He signed up with a debt relief program, but what they told him sounds a little to good to be true to me. He has eight credit cards in total. The interest rates vary but at least one of them was almost 25% and he was told that they could get that down to 9.9%. Does that sound reasonable? Over all they told him that on all of the cards the interest rates would be reduced, not as dramatically as the one that was almost 25%, but still dramatic decreases in interest rates. He said that he signed up with a non-profit debt relief program, but still has to pay them $6.00 per card for what they call a handling fee. With eight credit cards this amounts to $48.00 but even with their handling fee his overall payment will only be $9.00 more per month than what his minimum payments were to begin with. In addition his entire debt is supposed to be paid off in something over four years compared to the fifteen to twenty-five years it would have taken him without entering a debt relief program. Does any of this sound to good to be true?

Anyone think the info above sounds reasonable or is it to good to be true? My friend said the debt relief company that he selected is listed with the BBB.

[salsbury]

Originally posted by theking


Anyone think the info above sounds reasonable or is it to good to be true? My friend said the debt relief company that he selected is listed with the BBB.

re: the BBB - the BBB is a telemarketing organization that doesn't really have anything to do with consumer protection. if they once did, they don't now, anyways..

otherwise, it does sound reasonable. $11k over 48 months is $229/mo without interest. the three CCs i have state their minimum payments between $25-$50.. so i could easily see that being only a little bit more than his minimum payments were.

good for him taking responsibility instead of shrugging it off.

[theking]

Originally posted by salsbury


re: the BBB - the BBB is a telemarketing organization that doesn't really have anything to do with consumer protection. if they once did, they don't now, anyways..

otherwise, it does sound reasonable. $11k over 48 months is $229/mo without interest. the three CCs i have state their minimum payments between $25-$50.. so i could easily see that being only a little bit more than his minimum payments were.

good for him taking responsibility instead of shrugging it off.

The BBB I am referring to is the Better Business Bureau. Is that what you are referring to? By the way thanks for the response.

[Honeyslut]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
it's a trade off bro.... you gotta make the decision which means more to you.... credit re-establishment, or nuking the debt as painlessly as possible.

The credit relief will HELP you... you still pay the debts.

Bankruptcy nukes all the debts (unless they're student/government loans or child support) instantly.... you don't pay back a fucking dime. But your credit is fucked for a decade. (normally less for credit cards.... but fully for things like buying a house)

My husband's friend filed bankruptcy a few years ago and lost his house. This year he bought another house. I hear this all the time in California.

[Honeyslut]

Find a copy of Nolo's Personal Bankruptcy book for your buddy and take Amp's advise on counseling.

I am talking from personal experience. I fell for someone's line about being in debt and needing to file for bankruptcy. I let the person live in my house for free so that they could SAVE for bankruptcy. The person went on unemployment for six months and did not look for a job. When I finally caught on that the person was never going to do anything, the person moved on to bum off the step daughter and then on to the person's parents house.

There's more to this story than I am going to share but I know that YOU can't help this person.

[theking]

Originally posted by Honeyslut
Find a copy of Nolo's Personal Bankruptcy book for your buddy and take Amp's advise on counseling.

I am talking from personal experience. I fell for someone's line about being in debt and needing to file for bankruptcy. I let the person live in my house for free so that they could SAVE for bankruptcy. The person went on unemployment for six months and did not look for a job. When I finally caught on that the person was never going to do anything, the person moved on to bum off the step daughter and then on to the person's parents house.

There's more to this story than I am going to share but I know that YOU can't help this person.

Thanks for your advice but he apparently has already signed up with a debt relief program. The program sounds a little to good to be true to me, but I hope it works out for him.