Must See Video: Black Panther party run off by numerically superior White crowd - GoFuckYourself.com

hateman · 12-03-2007, 05:12 PM

http://www.blogsofwar.com/

White crowd:

http://www.blogsofwar.com/
From the website:
This is ten minutes of raw video recorded at today?s rally in support of Joe Horn in Pasadena, Texas. The video starts with the arrival of Quanell X and a handful of his New Black Panther Party minions. What Quanell might not have known is that several hundred Joe Horn supporters, including about a hundred bikers, were waiting for their arrival. It quickly became, as expected, pretty intense. Everyone got incredibly noisy, there was some pushing and shoving, and I got the real sense that the crowd was going to lose control at times.

In the video you?ll see Quanell and his group march up to Joe Horn?s house and attempt to speak to the media (which is the only reason they?re there) and get denied by the huge crowd and roaring Harleys. Quanell and friends then attempt to move to another street and speak to the media but the crowd follows and chants ?USA! USA!? until he and his friends retreat - quickly. The pro-Joe crowd was raucous and intimidating but mostly in control. Watching Quanell almost break out in tears over his inability to get media time was just priceless. (edit)

Photos from the event can be found in the Blogs of War Gallery.

hateman · 12-03-2007, 05:15 PM

if someone doesnt know, Joe Horn is an elder white man who had shot dead 2 black criminals a few weeks ago when they had been robbing his neighbors home.

JohnnyJames · 12-03-2007, 05:17 PM

Wow.

Glad I don't live in that neighborhood. All the disruption during that would suck

hateman · 12-03-2007, 05:26 PM

its actually a very decent neighbourhood

here's the original story http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...=mostpop_story

Martin · 12-03-2007, 05:41 PM

Why do Americans always break out in the USA Chant? lol I don't get it.

CE_Rashaan · 12-03-2007, 05:47 PM

The guys gotta go down..no matter what. Last I looked this aint MEGA CITY and JOE HORN aint JUDGE DREDD.

BusterBunny · 12-03-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatrixRashaan

The guys gotta go down..no matter what. Last I looked this aint MEGA CITY and JOE HORN aint JUDGE DREDD.

"i knew you were gonna say that"....

~Ray · 12-03-2007, 06:38 PM

those panthers made it a racial issue by not including other races and sexes within their posse.

After Shock Media · 12-03-2007, 06:44 PM

Did you write the above first post hateman or was that a copy paste?

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 12-03-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hateman

if someone doesnt know, Joe Horn is an elder white man who had shot dead 2 black criminals a few weeks ago when they had been robbing his neighbors home.

is he the guy that had the 911 call recorded telling the operator he wasn't gonna let them get away with it? then ran out and shot the guys robbing his neighbor's house?

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 12-03-2007, 07:00 PM

haha, fuck americans are hilarious...

was somebody chanting "you are gay" along with "U S A" or was i just hearing things? seriously...

"we love our country!!! what do you love!!!"

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 12-03-2007, 07:04 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanell_X

Quote:

Quanell was a drug dealer in the Sunnyside community of South Houston, Texas.[2]. In May 1989, Quanell spent a brief time in jail and received 10 years probation for possessing and dealing crack cocaine. It was during this time that Quanell claims to have had a life changing conversion and decided he would devote his life to the betterment of African-Americans in Houston. Once a "young street thug" according to himself, Quanell polished up his image to set a better role model for the people he leads. He always appears in a very expensive suit and tie and flanked by an armed (guns and knives) posse of New Black Panther Party members to provide intimidation factor. Quanell is a skilled speaker and uses his oratory skills to help lead his organization.

RUH ROH! A ex crack dealer dresse din expensive suits walking around with a posse of armed homeboys is a cleaned up image?

TTiger · 12-03-2007, 07:07 PM

Joe Horn Protest

Quannel X led a protest in Pasadena, Texas on December 2, 2007. The protest was held in front of Joe Horn's house, the man suspected of shooting two burglary suspects. Quannell's speech included the exhortation for blacks to ignore "white law" and he led chants of "black power." Riot police had to be readied in case Quannell's posse started a fight with the large number of counter-protesters who had gathered to oppose his arrival

Shagbunny · 12-03-2007, 07:17 PM

i was hoping to see the technoviking there

DocYall · 12-03-2007, 07:49 PM

That video scared me.

sortie · 12-03-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Why do Americans always break out in the USA Chant? lol I don't get it.

They do it to say "If you don't agree with me then you are anti-american".

For example : I tell the guy next to me in the bar that his shirt is ugly.
He says "bullshit, my girlfriend bought it." Then I laugh.
Then he's says "Aint nothing funny buddy", then he clinches his fist in the air and starts chanting USA, USA and the crowd starts chanting USA with him then they all tell me I suck and better leave.

That's basically how it works.

L-Pink · 12-03-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

They do it to say "If you don't agree with me then you are anti-american".

For example : I tell the guy next to me in the bar that his shirt is ugly.
He says "bullshit, my girlfriend bought it." Then I laugh.
Then he's says "Aint nothing funny buddy", then he clinches his fist in the air and starts chanting USA, USA and the crowd starts chanting USA with him then they all tell me I suck and better leave.

That's basically how it works.

Yea sure that's how it works.

Phil · 12-03-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Yea sure that's how it works.

just watch Borat movie. It works just like that. 3 budwisers and "Go USA go USA".

Phil · 12-03-2007, 08:19 PM

somebody page pussyserver

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 12-03-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

They do it to say "If you don't agree with me then you are anti-american".

For example : I tell the guy next to me in the bar that his shirt is ugly.
He says "bullshit, my girlfriend bought it." Then I laugh.
Then he's says "Aint nothing funny buddy", then he clinches his fist in the air and starts chanting USA, USA and the crowd starts chanting USA with him then they all tell me I suck and better leave.

That's basically how it works.

sounds about right to me...

sortie · 12-03-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Yea sure that's how it works.

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

WarChild · 12-03-2007, 08:25 PM

Imagine if it had of been white's protesting in a black neighborhood. Be a lot more gunshots I bet.

sortie · 12-03-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Imagine if it had of been white's protesting in a black neighborhood. Be a lot more gunshots I bet.

Can you provide a link or do you just make stuff up?

As if there were no gunshots that led up to this to begin with.

Phil · 12-03-2007, 08:27 PM

I don't know what USA is about, they are americans too.. I would go with "get the fuck out!!!"

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 12-03-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Imagine if it had of been white's protesting in a black neighborhood.

Come on now, that would just be racist...

sortie · 12-03-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ismokeblunts

Come on now, that would just be racist...

So true : http://www.local6.com/news/7441725/detail.html

WarChild · 12-03-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

Can you provide a link or do you just make stuff up?

As if there were no gunshots that led up to this to begin with.

Sure: https://youtube.com/watch?v=L4KMIGQkeP4

Anybody can get it, dog.

DBS.US · 12-03-2007, 08:39 PM

Fuck the criminals! They two guys that got shot had a long history of robbery and other crimes.

IllTestYourGirls · 12-03-2007, 08:44 PM

I saw some Hispanics in the crowd (i think)

respect property rights and dont get shot. Is that to hard to understand?

sortie · 12-03-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Sure: https://youtube.com/watch?v=L4KMIGQkeP4

Anybody can get it, dog.

The song was marginal but the chick fights were awesome.

BTW: The people that got beat up broke into one of those peep's house, ya dig?

12-03-2007, 09:09 PM

I like the crazy lady that shows up at about 5:40 in.

It's too bad they never let those guys speak. It probably would have got real interesting then.

dynastoned · 12-03-2007, 10:51 PM

man that mother fucker couldn't wait to kill those guys. thats pretty fucked up if you ask me. granted they were robbing the house next door i find it hard to believe he had to kill them. now whether or not they deserved it those people shouldn't be out there chanting and shit like he did something good. all i saw was a bunch of fucking racists in that video, black and white included. that whole situation is pretty sad.

dynastoned · 12-03-2007, 10:53 PM

also im not too sure how smart those black panthers were by attempting to go on that mans property. hes already shown hes not afraid to shoot someone if they step on his lawn.

Pornwolf · 12-04-2007, 01:53 AM

I think we should let all of these guys take each other out. Black power, white power, whatever. Give em all guns and let's let the killing commence.

stev0 · 12-04-2007, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynastoned

man that mother fucker couldn't wait to kill those guys. thats pretty fucked up if you ask me. granted they were robbing the house next door i find it hard to believe he had to kill them. now whether or not they deserved it those people shouldn't be out there chanting and shit like he did something good. all i saw was a bunch of fucking racists in that video, black and white included. that whole situation is pretty sad.

Agreed.

Whether they were robbing a house or not, a few possessions is not worth killing someone over. Bunch of fucked up people.

DeadFidel · 12-04-2007, 02:39 AM

The two dead were black Islanders (From PR, and DR I read) not African Americans.

Listen to the 911 call to put in perspective.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5306638.html

PLUS: one of the dead had a pillow case with a large amount of cash.
The home owners can not be found. Drugs are a bad thing.

stev0 · 12-04-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Why do Americans always break out in the USA Chant? lol I don't get it.

No doubt, that made no sense at all...

Funny how those idiots revving the motorbikes were so insistent on "protecting" the second amendment in the US constitution whilst completely forgetting about the first.

SmokeyTheBear · 12-04-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

Can you provide a link or do you just make stuff up?

to be fair he said "imagine if" so that would imply he is "making up " a likely scenario

such as

remember during the rodney king riots.. imagine if there was one white guy standing on the corner with a "rodney got what he deserved" sign..

i would put his life expectancy at about 10-20 seconds.

TTiger · 12-04-2007, 03:03 AM

dead prez-Hell Yeah
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lVDEDvob2U4

TTiger · 12-04-2007, 03:04 AM

a bunch of redneck idiot screaming usa at more idiot bunch of nigga...
only in america

V_RocKs · 12-04-2007, 03:15 AM

Nice... about time.

After Shock Media · 12-04-2007, 03:21 AM

First time I really read an article on it. Something struck me as well sort of a prosecution loophole that very well could nail him. Besides I really think that is some wrong ass shit.

Here is the few lines:

But, he states that he was upset that the men appeared to be burglarizing a home in broad daylight.

'Not worth killing someone'

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect their own property to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

So the burglary was in broad daylight but the Texas law reads at night?

escorpio · 12-04-2007, 04:34 AM

Looks like homie picked the wrong neighborhood to have a pro-crime rally.

hateman · 12-04-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Why do Americans always break out in the USA Chant? lol I don't get it.

they are signaling the blacks to go back to Africa

pussyserver - BANNED FOR LIFE · 12-04-2007, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stev0

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynastoned
man that mother fucker couldn't wait to kill those guys. thats pretty fucked up if you ask me. granted they were robbing the house next door i find it hard to believe he had to kill them. now whether or not they deserved it those people shouldn't be out there chanting and shit like he did something good. all i saw was a bunch of fucking racists in that video, black and white included. that whole situation is pretty sad.

Agreed.

Whether they were robbing a house or not, a few possessions is not worth killing someone over. Bunch of fucked up people.

I also agree

real sad situation

America has went so far down the shitter man as a true patriot I am completely saddened by our current state overall

Retributi0n · 12-04-2007, 07:21 AM

Quote:

The identities of the men killed were released Friday.

They are Miguel Antonio Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30.

The guys were not even black. What do the blck panthers care?

Anthony · 12-04-2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

to be fair he said "imagine if" so that would imply he is "making up " a likely scenario

such as

remember during the rodney king riots.. imagine if there was one white guy standing on the corner with a "rodney got what he deserved" sign..

i would put his life expectancy at about 10-20 seconds.

There was a white trucker pulled out of his truck and beat almost to death during that whole thing.

Luscious Media · 12-04-2007, 08:33 AM

Two wrongs never make a right. The guy should have stayed in his house like he was instructed to do. It would be a simple case of breaking and entering instead of a double homicide if he had.

As for why we chant USA...USA...USA, there are numerous reasons but it appears they were doing it to mostly drown out Quanell X and maybe to express their belief that homeowners have a right to protect themselves. Free speech goes both ways and this time the bikers speech was louder.

Oh yeah, this happened it Texas too. Things seem a bit different there as opposed to the rest of the US. I believe the saying goes, "Don't mess with Texas".

yys · 12-04-2007, 08:47 AM

Another example of the outstanding leadership that is shown within local black communities.

Two criminals get killed committing a crime and you have a protest yet young black men gun down young black men on a daily basis in an epidemic of violence and the lack of protests or solutions is deafening.

Bossman · 12-04-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Sure: https://youtube.com/watch?v=L4KMIGQkeP4

Anybody can get it, dog.

Fuck - even the ghettos in the US are nice compared to the rest of world.... ex. in Haiti https://youtube.com/watch?v=bgg7TYviH5I

12-03-2007, 05:12 PM	#1
hateman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,623	Must See Video: Black Panther party run off by numerically superior White crowd http://www.blogsofwar.com/ White crowd: http://www.blogsofwar.com/ From the website: This is ten minutes of raw video recorded at today?s rally in support of Joe Horn in Pasadena, Texas. The video starts with the arrival of Quanell X and a handful of his New Black Panther Party minions. What Quanell might not have known is that several hundred Joe Horn supporters, including about a hundred bikers, were waiting for their arrival. It quickly became, as expected, pretty intense. Everyone got incredibly noisy, there was some pushing and shoving, and I got the real sense that the crowd was going to lose control at times. In the video you?ll see Quanell and his group march up to Joe Horn?s house and attempt to speak to the media (which is the only reason they?re there) and get denied by the huge crowd and roaring Harleys. Quanell and friends then attempt to move to another street and speak to the media but the crowd follows and chants ?USA! USA!? until he and his friends retreat - quickly. The pro-Joe crowd was raucous and intimidating but mostly in control. Watching Quanell almost break out in tears over his inability to get media time was just priceless. (edit) Photos from the event can be found in the Blogs of War Gallery.

12-03-2007, 05:41 PM	#5
Martin "Assassins" Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home Posts: 17,277	Why do Americans always break out in the USA Chant? lol I don't get it. __________________

12-03-2007, 05:47 PM	#6
CE_Rashaan Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Porn Valley Posts: 937	The guys gotta go down..no matter what. Last I looked this aint MEGA CITY and JOE HORN aint JUDGE DREDD. __________________ Always looking for Good New Content ICQ- 336359256 [email protected]

12-03-2007, 06:38 PM	#8
~Ray visit hardlinks.org Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas , Nv >>> [email protected] or icq 94994627 anytime Posts: 18,362	those panthers made it a racial issue by not including other races and sexes within their posse. __________________ Adult Backlinks for Adult Websites - Testimonials Available

12-03-2007, 06:44 PM	#9
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	Did you write the above first post hateman or was that a copy paste? __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

12-03-2007, 05:15 PM	#2
hateman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,623	if someone doesnt know, Joe Horn is an elder white man who had shot dead 2 black criminals a few weeks ago when they had been robbing his neighbors home.

12-03-2007, 05:17 PM	#3
JohnnyJames Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 621	Wow. Glad I don't live in that neighborhood. All the disruption during that would suck

12-03-2007, 05:26 PM	#4
hateman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,623	its actually a very decent neighbourhood here's the original story http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...=mostpop_story

12-03-2007, 07:00 PM	#11
Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life (felis madjewicus) Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In Mom & Dad's Basement Posts: 20,368	haha, fuck americans are hilarious... was somebody chanting "you are gay" along with "U S A" or was i just hearing things? seriously... "we love our country!!! what do you love!!!" Last edited by Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life; 12-03-2007 at 07:01 PM..

12-03-2007, 07:07 PM	#13
TTiger Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: quebec, canada Posts: 3,030	Joe Horn Protest Quannel X led a protest in Pasadena, Texas on December 2, 2007. The protest was held in front of Joe Horn's house, the man suspected of shooting two burglary suspects. Quannell's speech included the exhortation for blacks to ignore "white law" and he led chants of "black power." Riot police had to be readied in case Quannell's posse started a fight with the large number of counter-protesters who had gathered to oppose his arrival __________________

12-03-2007, 07:17 PM	#14
Shagbunny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: wut Posts: 3,028	i was hoping to see the technoviking there

12-03-2007, 07:49 PM	#15
DocYall Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 149	That video scared me. __________________ ICQ: 334973290

12-03-2007, 08:19 PM	#19
Phil Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,659	somebody page pussyserver __________________ Ask Phil

12-03-2007, 08:25 PM	#22
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	Imagine if it had of been white's protesting in a black neighborhood. Be a lot more gunshots I bet. __________________ .

12-03-2007, 08:27 PM	#24
Phil Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,659	I don't know what USA is about, they are americans too.. I would go with "get the fuck out!!!" __________________ Ask Phil

12-03-2007, 08:39 PM	#28
DBS.US Geo Cities Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: North Captiva Island, Florida USA Posts: 11,835	Fuck the criminals! They two guys that got shot had a long history of robbery and other crimes. __________________ Make a Free Chaturbate White Label site in 34 minutes and be making money tonight

12-03-2007, 08:44 PM	#29
IllTestYourGirls Ah My Balls Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under the gold leaf ICQ 388-454-421 Posts: 14,311	I saw some Hispanics in the crowd (i think) respect property rights and dont get shot. Is that to hard to understand? __________________ Last edited by IllTestYourGirls; 12-03-2007 at 08:45 PM..

12-03-2007, 09:09 PM	#31
evildick Guest Posts: n/a	I like the crazy lady that shows up at about 5:40 in. It's too bad they never let those guys speak. It probably would have got real interesting then. Last edited by evildick; 12-03-2007 at 09:12 PM..

12-03-2007, 10:51 PM	#32
dynastoned mmm yeah! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: roseville, ca Posts: 5,061	man that mother fucker couldn't wait to kill those guys. thats pretty fucked up if you ask me. granted they were robbing the house next door i find it hard to believe he had to kill them. now whether or not they deserved it those people shouldn't be out there chanting and shit like he did something good. all i saw was a bunch of fucking racists in that video, black and white included. that whole situation is pretty sad.

12-03-2007, 10:53 PM	#33
dynastoned mmm yeah! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: roseville, ca Posts: 5,061	also im not too sure how smart those black panthers were by attempting to go on that mans property. hes already shown hes not afraid to shoot someone if they step on his lawn.

12-04-2007, 01:53 AM	#34
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	I think we should let all of these guys take each other out. Black power, white power, whatever. Give em all guns and let's let the killing commence. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

12-04-2007, 02:39 AM	#36
DeadFidel Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: This was my wife circa 2002 Posts: 6,760	The two dead were black Islanders (From PR, and DR I read) not African Americans. Listen to the 911 call to put in perspective. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5306638.html PLUS: one of the dead had a pillow case with a large amount of cash. The home owners can not be found. Drugs are a bad thing. Last edited by DeadFidel; 12-04-2007 at 02:41 AM..

12-04-2007, 03:03 AM	#39
TTiger Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: quebec, canada Posts: 3,030	dead prez-Hell Yeah https://youtube.com/watch?v=lVDEDvob2U4 __________________

12-04-2007, 03:04 AM	#40
TTiger Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: quebec, canada Posts: 3,030	a bunch of redneck idiot screaming usa at more idiot bunch of nigga... only in america __________________

12-04-2007, 03:15 AM	#41
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,422	Nice... about time.

12-04-2007, 03:21 AM	#42
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	First time I really read an article on it. Something struck me as well sort of a prosecution loophole that very well could nail him. Besides I really think that is some wrong ass shit. Here is the few lines: But, he states that he was upset that the men appeared to be burglarizing a home in broad daylight. 'Not worth killing someone' Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect their own property to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night. So the burglary was in broad daylight but the Texas law reads at night? __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

12-04-2007, 04:34 AM	#43
escorpio I love to racism, bro! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA! USA! USA! Posts: 23,190	Looks like homie picked the wrong neighborhood to have a pro-crime rally.

12-04-2007, 08:33 AM	#48
Luscious Media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Foxwoods Posts: 785	Two wrongs never make a right. The guy should have stayed in his house like he was instructed to do. It would be a simple case of breaking and entering instead of a double homicide if he had. As for why we chant USA...USA...USA, there are numerous reasons but it appears they were doing it to mostly drown out Quanell X and maybe to express their belief that homeowners have a right to protect themselves. Free speech goes both ways and this time the bikers speech was louder. Oh yeah, this happened it Texas too. Things seem a bit different there as opposed to the rest of the US. I believe the saying goes, "Don't mess with Texas". __________________ Luscious Media ICQ: 293-550-859 CFNM Cash

12-04-2007, 08:47 AM	#49
yys Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,922	Another example of the outstanding leadership that is shown within local black communities. Two criminals get killed committing a crime and you have a protest yet young black men gun down young black men on a daily basis in an epidemic of violence and the lack of protests or solutions is deafening.