WHY THE FUCK DO YOU MORONS HAVE TO FUCKING ARGUE ABOUT THIS. YES I MEAN YOU DIRECTFIESTA MORON CANT YOU JUST FEEL SAD ABOUT It?

no direct fiestsa coz everything u post has to be anti USA which fucking sucks. grow up u peice of tard shit

I hope you never need my services someday.

30 out of 100,000 killed themselves. It is a no brainer. They were dipshits.

kid, go to sleep ... This is way to complicated for your simple mind .. of Black & white .. For or Against, with US or with the enemy ....

:(:(:(:(

well at least ONE guy got it right.

The important factor there, if this was a true story, was the number of suicides among VETERANS.


It did NOT specify IRAQ veterans or any other sort.

It's sad either way. I don;t happen to support any political party, so don;t jump my ass on that.

What I DO support is honest information, with no slant. Unfortunately, there is precious little there to support.

This country has literally tens of millions of veterans. From WW1 (yes, there are a few still living) to the current conflict. Of more interest would be a detailed analysis of the ages of those who committed suicide and the conflicts they served in, if any.

Someone else posted, correctly, that the USA has more people on active duty around the world than any nation. Other countries do NOT have the same numbers of military nor the same number serving in foreign lands. So that is not an accurate gauge. You simply cannot compare the military forces of say, Monaco, to the sheer numbers and the efforts that the USA puts forth. And that is NOT meant with any disrespect.

The fall of the USSR resulted in someon (Possibly us) nominating the USA to be the good ole peacekeeper for the world. We have sometimes succeeded and often failed.

But. . who the fuck else has stepped up to the plate and EVEN TRIED?

The new French president made an intersting statement that essentially came down to this:

As misguided as the US is, maybe, just maybe, it's time to stop all the useless criticism and actually offer some SOLUTIONS.

Good thinking, and I hope the US will be willing to listen.

I was in the Army for 2 years. I served my time, had my son and got out on Sept 9, 2001, only saved from going overseas because I had just given birth. I can't imagine what those soldiers went through that did get deployed. People who never served their country don't know what it is like in the service. If you don't do what you are told, you are locked in military prisons (yes, I have seen it happen being an ex MP). They put fear into you and lie if need be to get you to perform. I mean all basic training is is really a form of brainwashing. Then you get young adults overseas who all of the sudden have to face the fact that their false sense of "military brotherhood" is all bullshit and that they have just killed someone, only to be too far away from home to do anything about it. I'm not surprised of the numbers, and I don't think they are pussies. I think they are people who were unfortunate enough to believe some stupid recruiter in a McDonalds parking lot who told them a way to pay for college and an easy life of service

more than half even , the vast majority of people don't think we should be there ..

makes ya think , perhaps we shouldn't be there..

they are voicing the feeling of americans, isn't that the whole point of what they are supposed to do ?

i dont remember him saying that :winkwink:

i fail to see how disagreeing with this war undermines the moral of the troops
i can certainly see how admitting you made a mistake can be demoralizing , it can also save lives and make you a stronger , smarter group

If an engineer says a house is built crooked halfway thru building , its hardly the engineer's fault that the carpenters get demoralized when they find out they can't continue. nobody is blaming the carpenters..

unfortunaltly, it is normally a false sense of moral. It is people cut off from civilization with only higher ranking officers telling them what that moral should be.

rest in peace old timers... :Oh crap

http://www.iwojima.com/raising/lflage2.gif

1st off...fuck off....2nd off, it's not gotten any better :/

...when you're willing to put your life on the line for 'anything' I'm then willing to listen...other than that you're a fucking whiney spectator of historical events in the world...


EDIT: that being said...I'm glad that someone has noticed this issue...

As a Veteran, and friend of one of those who suffered from PTSD, who ended his life, whom you refer too as a dipshit, I hope to never do business with you. Ever.

You brought up details I was hoping not to hear tonight...but that are the same in sentiment and more sadly in the the details of that other issue that took place.

Those not willing to step up but are willing to talk trash are some of the __________________________________...I'll let it be cuz there's too many superlatives for 'piece of shit' that I can come up with to fill that line.

I've always noticed those so quick to throw judgement are the ones who would never be in the service themselves (not just meant to anyone personally in this thread but in general having served myself and being in several heated discussions on the subject)

It's ok to be blunt and not sugar coat it......there are those willing to step up and sound off like they have a pair, both... men AND women...and then there the others we can confidently refer to as 'bitches'...

Read the fucking report where they got their stats from.

1995 - 2005 a ten year study !

I did over 20 years in the military and we studied this pretty hard and one of the reasons veterans kill themselves at a higher percentage then the population is because they lose their sense of purpose.

A young guy has great responsibility after they get a few stripes and then when they get out some of them find it hard to find a meaning to life in the civilian world.

Another age group that off themselves at a higher rate are senior enlisted and officers who retire. They had this huge responsibility for many years and then poof it's gone and they lose their reason for living.

Good point.

You nailed the analogy I failed to put my finger on.

Go back to fucking your camel.

DEAL!

Sorry to hear about your friend... But that is as far as it goes.

Our government sent them there, if we don't finish the job, it will be worse in the long run. I have no patience for Congressmen that argue they were lied to! Are their votes so easliy got with lies or do they take what they do seriuosly and do their own research?


The people only echo what the news plays on, we're a nation relying on sound bites of discontent for our moral fulfillment. Which is really sad

You're right, I looked it up, and someone in the government made it up, what a shock, but I did find this, which means the same thing to me...

Lincoln, 1863: Long experience has shown that armies can not be maintained unless desertion shall be punished by the severe penalty of death. The case requires, and the law and the Constitution, sanction this punishment-- Must I shoot a simple-minded soldier boy who deserts, while I must not touch a hair of a wiley agitator who induces him to desert?

I saw a documentary on recruiting and that's exactly what I saw. Unfortunate.

what is "finish the job? making them like us ? . What your saying is no matter how flawed a plan it was/is it is never good to not finish .. i dont think i agree with you there. I think if you build a crooked house you don't ignore the problem because the house is almost "kinda finished". Sure the usa could get the house kinda finished but at some point it's going to come crashing down because the house was never built properly to begin with ..

i think its quite obvious to anyone we were lied to so i guess i agree with you there , at this point there is no point in "what if'ing".
i don't remember voting for the war..


i dont think anyone can expect the average american to have a handle on every foreign countries weapons capabilities..

yes i think if the president tells you he knows there are wmd's and here they are that theres a cer6tain amount of trust involved that we have come to expect.


so the news tells the people what to do , the people tell the government what to do .. so its all the news's fault that bush lied to us .. ?

what you forgot to look up is what desertion is :) none of the people mentioned would even remotely qualify for desertion.

Your reverse logic is so basically flawed it's silly. You can't honestly believe that stopping a war is desertion ? that "not attacking" something is desertion..?

what your trying to say is that not agreeing with a war = desertion , thus any war suggested must be valid and finished or you are deserters. :Oh crap

You are close to becoming like Webby with the pigshit you spout more and more frequently.

No what I'm saying is that if we just up and leave, the whole country will fall into the hands of something worse than what was there before, I'm not sure what is the best course of what to set up there, but a democracy that works with it's own army wold probably be the best, am I wrong?


It's a fact that the news only reports whats going to sell the news, they don't report on the good they are doing, but there is a reason for that, if Fox reported that the coalition troops reopened a school, insurgents would bomb it, if Fox reported that the troops opened a hospital, then it would get bombed, problem with this is that the news only has left to tell the american public or the world for that matter is the death toll. they end up painting a one sided tale of the occupation

what I was tring to spell out was not the desertion, just that thats' where the first statement probably came from. That our congresmen that are using the war in Iraq as a rally cry are doing harm to moral to our troops.

Guilt. :(

http://www.suicidewall.com/SWStats.html

According to a study by Tim A. Bullman and Han K. Yang in the Federal Practitioner 12 (3) : 9-13 (March 1995), "...no more than 20,000 Vietnam Veterans died of suicide from the time of discharge through the end of 1993". However there are others that claim that many more veterans have died of suicide since the Vietnam War.

In Chuck Deans' book, Nam Vet., printed in 1990 by Multnomah Press, Portland, Oregon, 97226, the author states that "Fifty-eight thousand plus died in the Vietnam War. Over 150,000 have committed suicide since the war ended". According to this book, Chuck Dean is a Vietnam Veteran who served in the 173rd Airborne, arriving in Vietnam in 1965. At the time the book was written, Mr. Dean was the executive director of Point Man International, a Seattle based, non-profit support organization dedicated to healing the war wounds of Vietnam Veterans.

While doing research for his novel, Suicide Wall, Alexander Paul contacted Point Man International and was given the name of a retired VA doctor, and conducted a phone interview with him. In that interview, the doctor related that his estimate of the number of Vietnam Veteran suicides was 200,000 men, and that the reason the official suicide statistics were so much lower was that in many cases the suicides were documented as accidents, primarily single-car drunk driving accidents and self inflicted gunshot wounds that were not accompanied by a suicide note or statement. According to the doctor, the under reporting of suicides was primarily an act of kindness to the surviving relatives.

If the estimate of over 150,000 veterans of the Vietnam War having committed suicide since returning home is true, the figure would be almost three times the number killed in the war. When these deaths are added to the 50,000 plus Vietnam War casualties, the number approaches the 292,000 American casualties of World War II.