Radiohead's experiment=FAILURE - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Rex · 11-07-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

You might want to consider that most of the people who downloaded for free, might not have otherwise paid for it in a store. They may not even be fans of the band.

I don't consider myself a fan, but I paid 8 bucks for it, because I like what they're trying to do, and I wanted to be a part of it. The album sucks, by the way.

ditto except I paid $6...right on the money

/agree it sucks

candyflip · 11-07-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adult Lounge - Brad

You are too early to call this one. The number that you are hearing are not official and merely speculation at this point. They are not taking into account the number of people who bought the box set. Not to mention the fact that the mp3s were encoded at 160kps which is not ideal if you want to sell an album on mp3 so that will account for a large number of people who did not pay for the album. I would venture to guess that many of the people who choose to download the album for free will go out and buy it at a traditional B$M store when it drops (probably in January here in North America).

To call this a failure so soon just shows how short sighted you are. Besides the fact that they openly said that fans can download the album for whatever they want including free means people are going to do so.

Further, they are planning an arena tour this time around and I guarantee they are going to sell out in no time (and this is where they are going to make all of their money). As I have said in the past, the album is merely a vehicle to sell the live show.

Anyways, time will tell on this one. I know they are also about to cash in on a box set covering all of the albums released pre "In Rainbows". I'm sure all of this free press is only going to help sell that as well.

Some fitting lyrics from an Indie artist who feels the same way:

Download This Song - MC Lars

It's 2006, the consumer?s still pissed
Won't take it anymore so I?m writing a list
Don't try to resist this paradigm shift
The music revolution cannot be dismissed
$18.98 Iggy Pop CD?
What if I can get it from my sister for free?
It?s all about marketing Clive Davis, see?
If fans buy the shirt then they get the mp3
Music was a product now it is a service
Major record labels why are you trying to hurt us?
Epic?s up in my face like, ?Don?t steal our songs Lars,?
While Sony sells the burners that are burning CD-R?s
So Warner, EMI, hear me clearly
Universal Music, update your circuitry
They sue little kids downloading hit songs
They think that makes sense
When they know that it?s wrong

Hey Mr. Record Man
The joke?s on you
Running your label
Like it was 1992
Hey Mr. Record Man,
Your system can?t compete
It?s the New Artist Model
File transfer complete
Download this song!
Download this song!
Download this song!

I know I'm rhyming fast, but the message is clear
You don?t need a million dollars to launch a career
If your style is unique and you practice what you preach
Minor Threat and Jello both have things to teach!
I've got G5 production, concept videos
Touring with a laptop, rocking packed shows
The old-school major deal? It makes no sense
Indentured servitude, the costs are too immense!
Their finger?s in the dam but the crack keeps on growing
Can?t sell bottled water when it?s freely flowing
Record sales slipping, down 8 percent
Increased download sales, you can't prevent
Satellite radio and video games
Changed the terrain, it will never be same
Did you know in ten years labels won't exist?
Goodbye DVD?s, and compact disks!

Hey Mr. Record Man,
What's wrong with you
Still living off your catalogue
From 1982
Hey Mr. Record Man,
Your system can't compete
It's the new artist model
File transfer complete
Download this song!
Download this song!
Download this song!

You know, we just wanted a level playing field.
You?ve overcharged us for music for years, and now we?re
Just trying to find a fair balance. I hate to say it, but?
Welcome to the future.

Download this song!
Download this song!
Download this song!

Hey Mr. Record Man
The joke?s on you
Running your label
Like it was 1992
Hey Mr. Record Man,
Your system can?t compete
It?s the New Artist Model
File transfer complete

RawAlex · 11-07-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

the problem is you are ignoring the fact that a large majority of those free downloads are people who didn't listen to the band before
so for example if the audience doubled for their album then only 12% of their existing audience was free loading

Sort of a gross manipulation of numbers there, no? I don't suspect you have anything to support this position. I own a couple of radiohead albums. I likely wouldn't pay a cent for this one, because offered the option of free or not free, I will take free for the same thing (I am not stupid enough to pay for what is free). I don't immediately go out and buy copies of all the songs I hear on the radio either. In my mind, giving it away is giving it away.

As for the idea of ad supported distribution, I think that this is a model that is going to get overused and killed pretty soon. Essentially, this model only works when someone somewhere is making money and can afford to buy advertising. If everything is given away for free, who has the money to pay for the ads?

Can you imagine you get Coca-cola for free but every bottle has advertising on it? Can you imagine what Coke's ad budget would be if they used this model?

All of this is just destructive behavior by acts that already have enough money in the bank and more than enough residual income that they no longer care about a workable business model. They appear to be more interested in pissing on the hand that feeds them.

ACMoviePass -Dave Dunit- · 11-07-2007, 01:17 PM

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

anyone with any understanding of the biz making this statement is delusional to say the least

SCORE Ralph · 11-07-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

As I said none of you are taking into account that the record label fronts the cost of producing and distrubting the album. Why do all bands even in today's age where thelabelsa re sen as evil do they still want to be signed by a label? Because most bands are broke and cannot produce and distribute a quailty album on their own. Also labels give them upfront cash before even one album is sold.

For an established band that doesn't have a contract with a label, yeah this method would probably work. They could afford the upfront costs. Also label are usually better at producing and distribution than individual bands. Take our industry. I'd rather go to a site that has movies of my favorite pornstars than go to the sites of those pornstars themselves? WHY? Because most of them are garbage. You'd think it be the opposite.

If you read up on it, their contract was up with the label. They did this on their own and distributed on their own. At least thats what some sources are reporting.

CuriousToyBoy · 11-07-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Shut up fag!

Listen adn answer my question. If this is the way to go how come every god damn little club band can't wait for a record deal from a label?

Nice. Tough guy there behind the keyboard... look forward to seeing you at a show ......

And MORE fundamental lack of understanding.

Radiohead are NOT a little club band, they have been around for years, have a massive and long established fan base and have released more than a couple of albums over the years.

1.2 million downloads someone said above... damn... that's a one big club band audience.

Think before you type I counsel, and play nicely with the other children.

BlackCrayon · 11-07-2007, 01:36 PM

Most people won't pay for something if they don't have to. Why should they?

bDok · 11-07-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bausch

From TMZ:

More than six out of 10 people who downloaded the new Radiohead album, "In Rainbows," did so for free after the band gave users the freedom to pay whatever they wanted. How does "nothing" sound?

Of the people that did fork over some cash, the average price paid was about $6. Nearly 1.2 million people downloaded the album -- do the math; that's a total of $2.736 mil.

That's not nearly as much as they would have made selling the album normally, but then again, they don't have to pay a record label any dues. Radiohead, stickin' it to the man!

did radio head give tmz the stats?

quantum-x · 11-07-2007, 01:37 PM

Here's a few things.
#1 - It was an experiment. Any result is a success.
#2 - They have their name out there so much now, with so much more attention, the PR stunt was worth it.

#3 - To lift from slashdot

Quote:

After reading all the articles on the statistics of this experiement I'm glad that radiohead seem up on what they could of possibly earn from this business model. Though I noticed when I purchased the album from their site that it wasn't the most smooth purchase (which could affect the statistics). Here are a few points I suggest for next time (if there is a next time) 1. Allow samples before payment People tend to want to try something before they buy it, you see it in music stores with headphones hooked up to allow people to try the new CD they are considering. Radiohead didn't provide this, and so people downloaded the album without payment to sample it. 2. Don't expect people to come back If you allow someone to download your 50mb+ album and then pay later, chances are they have already navigated away from your site while they are waiting for their download to be finished, reducing the chance that they'll come back to pay. 3. Download and pay later If you do this option, you have to remember the user's that have already downloaded the album. Radiohead only allowed 1 download per email, not giving the person the option to come back and pay later. A simple option once they have submitted their email would be to say, welcome back, did you enjoy the album? and an option to pay (with/without download). If I where to set up a band site to allow this model, I'd first allow the user to sample the album, be it 30 second track samples or whole tracks (considering it could be given away free I'd go whole tracks). This page would also specify what features are on the downloadable version (ie audio quality, cover arts, etc). The next screen, payment details, then a download link. Remember this is a business model, so it comes down to trying to get the most payments per download.

- very, very insightful.

A somewhat surprisingly intelligent discussion went on here http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/06/2035244

quantum-x · 11-07-2007, 01:39 PM

A better example of online distribution:
http://niggytardust.com/saulwilliams/download

Download for free, or pay $5 and get the FLAC or 320kbps version.

Makaveli · 11-07-2007, 01:40 PM

The people who didn't pay would have just waited till it hit the torrent sites anyway.

bronco67 · 11-07-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Most people won't pay for something if they don't have to. Why should they?

The honor system works for the most part, and it's true, many people will take advantage, but true fans of the band will probably pay. The key is to put out a good product.

If people believe in what you're doing they'll pay you for it. You just have to make something worth paying for.

...and I'm the type who doesn't look at the world through rose-colored glasses. I just really believe that with a model like this, the REAL cream will rise to the top.

frostyimpressions · 11-07-2007, 02:33 PM

I'm sure the band was very much aware of the fact that most people are going to opt to not pay a penny. It kind of shows that they're all about the music and not just money.

GatorB · 11-08-2007, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousToyBoy

Nice. Tough guy there behind the keyboard... look forward to seeing you at a show ......

And MORE fundamental lack of understanding.

Radiohead are NOT a little club band, they have been around for years, have a massive and long established fan base and have released more than a couple of albums over the years.

1.2 million downloads someone said above... damn... that's a one big club band audience.

Think before you type I counsel, and play nicely with the other children.

reading conprehension is something you failed at school appearantly. I never said radio was a little club band retard. And yet you insist on arguing with me and you don't even know WTF youa re arguing about.

GatorB · 11-08-2007, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspwm

If you read up on it, their contract was up with the label. They did this on their own and distributed on their own. At least thats what some sources are reporting.

You fail at reading too. I already posted that they didn't have a contract. yes they paid ALL the expenses of making this record on thier own. That costs MONEY. Anyone that thinks this supposed $2.7 mill is all profit is fooling themselves.

Theo · 11-08-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VS_Jeff

I'd venture a guess that history will remember it as a success. Not only will they recoup some of that money with the actual release of the album, but keep in mind how much of a new fan base they developed.

Big band or not, there are certainly a ton of people that've never heard their music, and this gave people a painless way to try them out. I anticipate some really excellent tour figures, which is usually a band's bread-and-butter anyhow.

well said,i can see their tickets in the upcoming tours getting sold all in a sec

Jace · 11-08-2007, 02:20 AM

I was reading a article a while back, wish I could find it now, that basically stated the times we are living in right at this very moment are the most narcissistic times in the history of the world....kids are basically being raised thinking everything is entitled to them

d-null · 11-08-2007, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

I was reading a article a while back, wish I could find it now, that basically stated the times we are living in right at this very moment are the most narcissistic times in the history of the world....kids are basically being raised thinking everything is entitled to them

EXACTLY! and they seem to understand or appreciate any value in anything

Jace · 11-08-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetjet

EXACTLY! and they seem to understand or appreciate any value in anything

yeah, it was a great article, I am scouring the web trying to find it right now...it was in some scientific journal

Jace · 11-08-2007, 02:58 AM

oops, found it finally, just needed to find the right keywords

http://www.10news.com/news/11129631/detail.html

Quote:

"Far from being civically oriented, young people born after 1982 are the most narcissistic generation in recent history," Twenge said.

http://advancement.sdsu.edu/marcomm/...7/pr022707.htm

gideongallery · 11-08-2007, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Sort of a gross manipulation of numbers there, no? I don't suspect you have anything to support this position. I own a couple of radiohead albums. I likely wouldn't pay a cent for this one, because offered the option of free or not free, I will take free for the same thing (I am not stupid enough to pay for what is free). I don't immediately go out and buy copies of all the songs I hear on the radio either. In my mind, giving it away is giving it away.

As for the idea of ad supported distribution, I think that this is a model that is going to get overused and killed pretty soon. Essentially, this model only works when someone somewhere is making money and can afford to buy advertising. If everything is given away for free, who has the money to pay for the ads?

you have to understand that Gator was talking about how this would only work for successful bands, and all the up and comming bands would have to use the labels.

The key point i was making is that the establish brands can piggy back the unknows more cost effectively then the record labels can.

How many house bands sound like radio head-- remember that radio head has the email address for ever.

So even if they are making 10 cent a year the NPV is 1.00 for that list.

targetted list (band specific music) could easily sell for more than that.

it just a redistribution of revenue away from the record companies and the radio towards the artist directly so your arguement is completely bogus.

Quote:

Can you imagine you get Coca-cola for free but every bottle has advertising on it? Can you imagine what Coke's ad budget would be if they used this model?

All of this is just destructive behavior by acts that already have enough money in the bank and more than enough residual income that they no longer care about a workable business model. They appear to be more interested in pissing on the hand that feeds them.

again with the hard product comparision, electronic distributions are very cheap. The profit margins are extremely high, with a lot of money being wasted on ineffective marketing. compare the production cost of coke vs the original cost of record a record and digitally encoding it is an apples to oranges comparision and you know it.

you keep making the comparision to try and justify an outdated model.

fuzzylogic · 11-08-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurbs - NichedSites

yah? i paid $15 for radiohead, need to get Niggy

niggy's goooood.
make sure ur sitting down and listening. pull out the pdf and sing along too

it should fuck u up sonicly and lyricly

gideongallery · 11-08-2007, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

You fail at reading too. I already posted that they didn't have a contract. yes they paid ALL the expenses of making this record on thier own. That costs MONEY. Anyone that thinks this supposed $2.7 mill is all profit is fooling themselves.

and you ignored the fact that the cost of production is taken out of the royalty they would have earned in a record deal so the 1 million they would have gotten (1 per record) would also have to deduct the cost of production.

it doesn't matter that the 2.7 million was not all profit because in both cases they would have to foot the bill for the production out of their share

It just means that their share was bigger this time because they cut the middleman out of the operation. and gave their customer a deal (free music)

and they still have income to make off their action (ad revenue, concert tickets). Remeber they have your email, your location, it now cost them a tiny fraction of the advertising budget to tell all of these people about their upcomming concert in your town.

Hell they can use the demographic information to identify new towns to tour in or to negotiate better venue rates because of the provable tourism revenue they can generate.

CuriousToyBoy · 11-08-2007, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

reading conprehension is something you failed at school appearantly. I never said radio was a little club band retard. And yet you insist on arguing with me and you don't even know WTF youa re arguing about.

Save that one also for when we meet face to face.

Please.

Rui · 11-08-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ismokeblunts

radiohead has been pure failure from day one

....

donkevlar · 11-12-2007, 06:06 PM

First off, I'm a big radiohead fan and this album DOESN'T suck by any means... It's no OK Computer, but it's still a really good album.

Second, it's no failure... The hype from them giving the album away got them free advertising and a shitload of money from the donations.

PLUS they're releasing the album on CD anyways, so they'll get a ton more then AND millions of people will come see their show.

minusonebit · 11-12-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

i usually find the richer you are the cheaper you are..

Ding... DING.... DINGGGGGGGGGGGG!

We have a winner!

ianlester · 11-12-2007, 10:05 PM

lol... it was a failure on the internet ... but now they are releasing the album in stores... so they get to make money twice... why??? because not everyone is net savy

11-07-2007, 01:17 PM	#54
ACMoviePass -Dave Dunit- Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In Your Mouth Posts: 296	LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO anyone with any understanding of the biz making this statement is delusional to say the least __________________ ICQ: 398-996-991 Email: dave "at" acmoviepass.com 80% PAYOUTS EVERY FRIDAY IN NOVEMBER!!!

11-07-2007, 01:36 PM	#57
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	Most people won't pay for something if they don't have to. Why should they? __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

11-07-2007, 02:33 PM	#63
frostyimpressions Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 918	I'm sure the band was very much aware of the fact that most people are going to opt to not pay a penny. It kind of shows that they're all about the music and not just money. __________________ Lisa

11-12-2007, 06:06 PM	#76
donkevlar Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,325	First off, I'm a big radiohead fan and this album DOESN'T suck by any means... It's no OK Computer, but it's still a really good album. Second, it's no failure... The hype from them giving the album away got them free advertising and a shitload of money from the donations. PLUS they're releasing the album on CD anyways, so they'll get a ton more then AND millions of people will come see their show. __________________ [email protected]

11-07-2007, 01:39 PM	#60
quantum-x Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ICQ: 251425 Fr/Au/Ca Posts: 6,863	A better example of online distribution: http://niggytardust.com/saulwilliams/download Download for free, or pay $5 and get the FLAC or 320kbps version.

11-07-2007, 01:40 PM	#61
Makaveli Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,027	The people who didn't pay would have just waited till it hit the torrent sites anyway.

11-08-2007, 02:20 AM	#67
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	I was reading a article a while back, wish I could find it now, that basically stated the times we are living in right at this very moment are the most narcissistic times in the history of the world....kids are basically being raised thinking everything is entitled to them

11-12-2007, 10:05 PM	#78
ianlester Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 207	lol... it was a failure on the internet ... but now they are releasing the album in stores... so they get to make money twice... why??? because not everyone is net savy