WTF? Humanity might have been better off without agriculture?

[$5 submissions]

http://www.awok.org/worst-mistake/

Basic thesis: Agriculture was probably humanity's greatest mistake. It produced overdependence on a monolithic diet that produced serious health consequences. It produces the classic scourge of class inequality and led to gender inequality.

Interesting article but I don't buy all of it. It's refreshing to see a well-argued contrarian view though. It was written by Jared Diamond, the scholar behind the AWESOME BOOK Guns Germs and Steel

[Jim_Gunn]

Jared's book "Gun's, Germs & Steel" is indeed awesome. I haven't read this article yet, BUT one thing is for sure, one has to accept the good with the bad. Whatever ills agriculture has brought humanity, it is also largely responsible for the modern civilization that we take for granted.

If we were still living as hunter gatherers, we'd still have a tiny human population across the globe and a primitive means of living for everyone without modern technology. Would you want to trade the world we have, as flawed as it is, for some fantasy idea of living like what anthropologists used to call "the noble savages"?

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

http://www.awok.org/worst-mistake/

Basic thesis: Agriculture was probably humanity's greatest mistake. It produced overdependence on a monolithic diet that produced serious health consequences. It produces the classic scourge of class inequality and led to gender inequality.

Interesting article but I don't buy all of it. It's refreshing to see a well-argued contrarian view though. It was written by Jared Diamond, the scholar behind the AWESOME BOOK Guns Germs and Steel

[Elli]

Diamond's book "Collapse" was even more interesting, I found. Check it out if you're into his stuff.

[D]

No agriculture = no beer.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[rapmaster]

interesting concept but without agriculture we'd probably be back in the stone age or something like that

[baddog]

I blame lima beans

[dozey]

Assuming nature would conspire towards the nourishment of humans in the absence of agriculture seems unwise... live and learn I guess. Time to head out for dinner.

[_Richard_]

interesting idea

but fucking flawed lol

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

Would you want to trade the world we have, as flawed as it is, for some fantasy idea of living like what anthropologists used to call "the noble savages"?

You pose a real good critique. In addition to conscious or unconscious idealization re a "primitive" society there's also the fact that while our modern civilization has many problems it also has created many opportunities for self-actualization, philosophy, and transcendence.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Mr.Sexbankroll

interesting idea

but fucking flawed lol

Very well-argued though but it doesn't take into consideration many other factors.

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

Jared's book "Gun's, Germs & Steel" is indeed awesome. I haven't read this article yet, BUT one thing is for sure, one has to accept the good with the bad. Whatever ills agriculture has brought humanity, it is also largely responsible for the modern civilization that we take for granted.

If we were still living as hunter gatherers, we'd still have a tiny human population across the globe and a primitive means of living for everyone without modern technology. Would you want to trade the world we have, as flawed as it is, for some fantasy idea of living like what anthropologists used to call "the noble savages"?

In a heartbeat. The unabomber lived better than many of us do today in his cabin in the woods. And I'd love nothing more than wipe out 2/3s of the world population with a single stroke of the brush. Human beings need population control just like everything else.

[StuartD]

What would be the alternative though?
The human race has a few brilliant minds but as a whole, we're pretty stupid. Err, I mean primitive... still.

If we hadn't discovered agriculture, we'd have just done something equally or more stupid to screw us up even more. I mean, imagine we just continued down the hunting path and only ever ate meat. Eventually 1) the meat would run out as our population grew and 2) we'd continue to be savage hunters forever with sharp teeth, very little intelligence and a penchant for violence.

[Probono]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Human beings need population control just like everything else.

Bingo!! Fewer people means a higher quality of life for all people. If religion was not so idiotic more family planning would make a better world for everyone. If we don't do it mother nature will with war, famine, pestilence oh they wrote part o a religious book about those horsemen didn't they.

[Brother Bilo]

Well, if there was no agriculture, there would be no farms. Therefore, no land to steal from farmers in the name of Eminent domain. Then what would the government have to do? Nothing, thats what.

[papill0n]

nice article - I disagree with most of it but interesting none the less

[GreyWolf]

Part of the idiot brigade - what else you expect from an Associate Professor at Iowa State University??? Duh???

No surprise the country is fucked and could not even feed itself if it tried.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by Probono

Bingo!! Fewer people means a higher quality of life for all people. If religion was not so idiotic more family planning would make a better world for everyone. If we don't do it mother nature will with war, famine, pestilence oh they wrote part o a religious book about those horsemen didn't they.

Mother nature already more than takes care of it. People group together in areas of high risk and typically get hit in large numbers. Though we do spread out, we do not do so as an organism normally should. So yes drought, earthquakes, flooding, disease, and a whole multitude of natural disasters work well towards population control. By the way, war is not mother nature.

Then if you look to more educated and well off people you will see they have less children and just breed less. Thus some countries are actually experiencing a negative population growth. Then you have when Governments make an attempt and you get a screw up like you did in China where you now do not have enough women for the future and it is now of national concern. To many men, not enough women and you will have a population issue.

It may also be argued that prohibiting abortions (wrong in my eyes) also increases the overall mortality in an area or country. Those with prohibitive laws seem to show higher numbers in child & mother deaths, typically do to having the procedure done outside of a safe medical facility.

To what the author said though. We have seen several cultures accidentally use agriculture to the point of self destruction. You have all those Asia temples that were built and eventually lost to the jungles again due primarily to overworking the fields, you can possibly blame the fall of Rome on not only lead poisoning but overworking the mountain regions and along riversides which silted up their harbors and created swampland where there was once fishing and boating, to numerous other cultures that went about it all wrong despite how successful they were at the time as empires.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

http://www.awok.org/worst-mistake/

Basic thesis: Agriculture was probably humanity's greatest mistake. It produced overdependence on a monolithic diet that produced serious health consequences. It produces the classic scourge of class inequality and led to gender inequality.

Interesting article but I don't buy all of it. It's refreshing to see a well-argued contrarian view though. It was written by Jared Diamond, the scholar behind the AWESOME BOOK Guns Germs and Steel

over the course of 10,000 years it affect the human diet in a negative way however it also allowed human mental development. so know we need to use the elevated mental status to over come the diet deficiencies. -bmb

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by baddog

I blame lima beans

I love lima beans, ever eat at 'el chavo' on sunset in silverlake? great lima bean soup. -bmb

[Jim_Gunn]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

In a heartbeat. The unabomber lived better than many of us do today in his cabin in the woods.

Yeah, that's a great life living in a shitty cabin all alone and throwing your life away because you are angry at the world.

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by Probono

Bingo!! Fewer people means a higher quality of life for all people. If religion was not so idiotic more family planning would make a better world for everyone. If we don't do it mother nature will with war, famine, pestilence oh they wrote part o a religious book about those horsemen didn't they.

Well, that and the way societies encourage uncontrolled breeding. Here in the US, we give welfare recipients more money and more food stamps for every one they pop out. Other nations seem to be even worse, offering direct "cash for a kid" type of things. Pop it out, get a check the next day type of things.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by minusonebit

Well, that and the way societies encourage uncontrolled breeding. Here in the US, we give welfare recipients more money and more food stamps for every one they pop out. Other nations seem to be even worse, offering direct "cash for a kid" type of things. Pop it out, get a check the next day type of things.

Your other countries cash for a kid programs are in areas that I mentioned, negative population growths or lack of females.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by Probono

Fewer people means a higher quality of life for all people.

Very very true. Especially in a Third World setting.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by GreyWolf

Part of the idiot brigade - what else you expect from an Associate Professor at Iowa State University??? Duh???

No surprise the country is fucked and could not even feed itself if it tried.

Actually, it was part of a reading list for that Iowa State University professor. The article itself was written by Jared Diamond.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

http://www.awok.org/worst-mistake/

Basic thesis: Agriculture was probably humanity's greatest mistake. It produced overdependence on a monolithic diet that produced serious health consequences. It produces the classic scourge of class inequality and led to gender inequality.

Interesting article but I don't buy all of it. It's refreshing to see a well-argued contrarian view though. It was written by Jared Diamond, the scholar behind the AWESOME BOOK Guns Germs and Steel

He points out in his book that the regions that have farmers and hunters/gastherer near each other. The standard of living of the hunter/getherers is higher then the farmers.