Question for the NEOCONS on the forum (daddyhalbucks)

[buzzy]

My first question is,

1.Why is one of the most hostile countries on the planet permitted to have loads of nukes and not even be in the nuclear non proliferation act? (Iran is in the nuclear non proliferation act btw).

2. I challenge you to show me at least one reason why Iran is a threat, weve already concluded the "Wiping israel off the map" is a myth, they're not building nukes since they are being monitored pretty much 24/7 by the IAEA and they say iran aren't building nukes. Who would you believe, the international atomic energy agency or Bush?

Don't be gullable and get pulled into another war, because this time it will affect YOUR lives and mine and nobody want's that to happen!

[Pleasurepays]

so nations and leaders of the world quickly condemned statements that were never made?




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...27/wiran27.xml

Wipe Israel off map, says Iran's president
By Tim Butcher in Jerusalem
Last Updated: 1:29am BST 27/10/2005



Iran's new hard-line president called yesterday for Israel to be "wiped off the map" - the first time for many years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for the Jewish state's eradication.

The remarks by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prompted a chorus of international condemnation.

The White House said they underlined American concerns about Teheran's nuclear ambitions. Several reports have estimated that Iran is five to 10 years away from developing a nuclear weapon.

President Ahmadinejad, elected in June, was addressing a conference in Teheran entitled "The World Without Zionism", attended by about 3,000 conservative students, who chanted: "Death to Israel!" and "Death to America!"

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," he said. "As the Imam [the late Ayatollah Khomeini] said, 'Israel must be wiped off the map'… The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland."

Germany called his comments "completely unacceptable", and France "firmly condemned them".

advertisementUnder his predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, Iran had shown signs of easing its hostility towards Israel.

But Mr Ahmadinejad's comments underscored how the gap between Iran and the West has widened during the row over Teheran's insistence of developing its nuclear capability.

His bellicose language was reminiscent of Iran's Islamic revolution, launched by Khomeini in 1979, when the new president was a young activist.



Israel's foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, said the comments demonstrated that the Iranian leadership represented a genuine threat to its existence.

"We believe that Iran is trying to buy time … so it can develop a nuclear bomb," said Mr Shalom. "Iran is a clear and present danger."

He added: "This kind of regime is very extreme. It would be a nightmare for all the international community if they had a nuclear bomb."

Although Israel is widely believed to have its own nuclear arsenal, it fears such weapons falling into the hands of hostile states.

In 1981, when Saddam Hussein threatened to develop a nuclear capability, Israel launched a pre-emptive air strike to destroy Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor.

Unilateral military action by Israel would be much harder against Iran's nuclear capability.

Military jets would have to fly much greater distances, and the Iranians have spread their nuclear programmes across a number of sites - some located under mountains.

However, Israeli military planners are believed to have a number of options including air strikes using American-designed bunker-busting munitions and commando raids.

Yesterday, Israel stressed that the threat of Teheran acquiring nuclear weapons was a danger to countries outside the region, including European nations in range of Iran's long-range missiles.

[buzzy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...jad_and_Israel

wiping zionism from the page of time, is not wiping israel off the map im afraid. and none of the people that reported what they said on them sites can speak persian (urdu), sorry. try again.

[pornask]

I've said it in the other thread - there is only one country in the world with proven record oh nuclear weapon (ab)use. If there is a country to fear, they are the ones. I pledge for the "world against America" movement.

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by buzzy

My first question is,

1.Why is one of the most hostile countries on the planet permitted to have loads of nukes and not even be in the nuclear non proliferation act?

By most hostile country, i meant israel btw.

[Cash]

I gotta get my sig in here, for this political drama will have a lot of posts ...

[jalami]

Advocating the demise of the current Jewish regime in Israel is not the same as genocide, or driving Jews to the sea or whatever. To put that in current affairs context, the US and Europe are calling for the military junta in Burma/Myanmar to step down -- so does that mean we are calling for the genocide of the Burmese people?

For the record I think both sides are batshit crazy!!@#

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by buzzy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...jad_and_Israel

wiping zionism from the page of time, is not wiping israel off the map im afraid. and none of the people that reported what they said on them sites can speak persian (urdu), sorry. try again.

your right. leaders of countries quickly denounced his remarks because no one really understood what he was saying... particularly in the context of his many similar remarks of the time.

but hey... you found an user created site that proves you right. You point to an article that cites Ahmadinejads own office clarifying things as proof the world is crazy and he is sane. congrats genius.

[Pleasurepays]

i'm sure he didn't just recently say "we don't have gays in Iran" at a university speech a few weeks ago either. i mean, why would he? its not like he has proven himself to be a total lunatic, prone to saying rediculous things.

[Barefootsies]

[GrouchyAdmin]

Give him an excuse to post more poorly-hidden affiliate join links, why don't you?

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

your right. leaders of countries quickly denounced his remarks because no one really understood what he was saying... particularly in the context of his many similar remarks of the time.

but hey... you found an user created site that proves you right. You point to an article that cites Ahmadinejads own office clarifying things as proof the world is crazy and he is sane. congrats genius.

Can the people who condemed him speak urdu? No, but of course your opinion has much more authority than anyone elses. Go learn urdu and watch the speach untill then keep your mouth shut because you are speaking off speculation.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by pornask

I pledge for the "world against America" movement.

Thats not a smart thing to say. Next you know you will be arrested on terrorism charges

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by buzzy

Can the people who condemed him speak urdu? No, but of course your opinion has much more authority than anyone elses. Go learn urdu and watch the speach untill then keep your mouth shut because you are speaking off speculation.

i dont have an opinion on what he said... simply pointing out that it was taken seriously by most European governments, the US etc ... to the point that many of those heads of state spoke out condemning the remarks with the EU Parliment also voting on and passing a resolution to condemn his comments.

thats not speculation you goofy fucking imature retard. its fact.

ironically, you make that remark which implies that all of these countries were acting on "speculation" and YOU are basing your retarded comments on information more reliable than what all these heads of state had at their disposal (i.e. a wikipedia post by supporters of the iranian president and his spokespeople).

dude ... seriously... do us all a favor... just sit back, submit some galleries and quietly suffer through another day of being you and while your at it, just thank god, allah or whoever that GFY doesn't require an IQ test for you to login and be a moron.

[Profits of Doom]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i dont have an opinion on what he said... simply pointing out that it was taken seriously by most European governments, the US etc ... to the point that many of those heads of state spoke out condemning the remarks with the EU Parliment also voting on and passing a resolution to condemn his comments.

thats not speculation you goofy fucking imature retard. its fact.

ironically, you make that remark which implies that all of these countries were acting on "speculation" and YOU are basing your retarded comments on information more reliable than what all these heads of state had at their disposal (i.e. a wikipedia post by supporters of the iranian president and his spokespeople).

dude ... seriously... do us all a favor... just sit back, submit some galleries and quietly suffer through another day of being you and while your at it, just thank god, allah or whoever that GFY doesn't require an IQ test for you to login and be a moron.

Not to sound like a gay stalker, but I truly do enjoy reading your posts...

[bushwacker]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i dont have an opinion on what he said... simply pointing out that it was taken seriously by most European governments, the US etc ... to the point that many of those heads of state spoke out condemning the remarks with the EU Parliment also voting on and passing a resolution to condemn his comments.

thats not speculation you goofy fucking imature retard. its fact.

ironically, you make that remark which implies that all of these countries were acting on "speculation" and YOU are basing your retarded comments on information more reliable than what all these heads of state had at their disposal (i.e. a wikipedia post by supporters of the iranian president and his spokespeople).

dude ... seriously... do us all a favor... just sit back, submit some galleries and quietly suffer through another day of being you and while your at it, just thank god, allah or whoever that GFY doesn't require an IQ test for you to login and be a moron.

roflmao@!! That is fucking classic!

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i'm sure he didn't just recently say "we don't have gays in Iran" at a university speech a few weeks ago either. i mean, why would he? its not like he has proven himself to be a total lunatic, prone to saying rediculous things.

I KNOW you're not this stupid... He's a politician... as such, he will lie just like every other politician around the world in order to make their policy clear... The policy in Iran is that gays are not accepted, desired etc... Does anyone have to point out all the lies and misinformation the US government (or ANY government around the world) has spewed out in order to fit with their policies?

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by Tempest

I KNOW you're not this stupid... He's a politician... as such, he will lie just like every other politician around the world in order to make their policy clear... The policy in Iran is that gays are not accepted, desired etc... Does anyone have to point out all the lies and misinformation the US government (or ANY government around the world) has spewed out in order to fit with their policies?

the point, which i incorrectly assumed was obvious and didn't really need to be dumbed down any more than it was... was that he is well known for making highly innapropriate and grossly offensive/insensitive remarks by any standard of diplomacy and statesmenship and has a long history of doing so. knowing that, its kinda irrelevant to debate the semantics of any single remark under the idiotic assumption that he is otherwise a perfectly normal person and brilliant statesman whose behavior falls within any acceptable realm or popular definition of normalcy in international politics.




anyhow... i am relieved having the "myth" that he is a wild lunatic, prone to saying completely innapropriate and outlandish things has been cleared up.

i thank you guys for that.

... i can now safely file this myth away in the official file cabinet of popular myths, right between magical unicorns, the "religion of peace" and leprechans and mark it "case closed!"

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i dont have an opinion on what he said... simply pointing out that it was taken seriously by most European governments, the US etc ... to the point that many of those heads of state spoke out condemning the remarks with the EU Parliment also voting on and passing a resolution to condemn his comments.

thats not speculation you goofy fucking imature retard. its fact.

ironically, you make that remark which implies that all of these countries were acting on "speculation" and YOU are basing your retarded comments on information more reliable than what all these heads of state had at their disposal (i.e. a wikipedia post by supporters of the iranian president and his spokespeople).

dude ... seriously... do us all a favor... just sit back, submit some galleries and quietly suffer through another day of being you and while your at it, just thank god, allah or whoever that GFY doesn't require an IQ test for you to login and be a moron.

WOW your a retard, first of all they were condeming something which was passed on by a 3rd party translator which was MIS TRANSLATED, how dumb can you get to not realise that?

I'm an atheist btw, your insults show how weak your argument is good job fuckface. and learn how to fucking spell, when do the kids go back to school?

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

the point, which i incorrectly assumed was obvious and didn't really need to be dumbed down any more than it was... was that he is well known for making highly innapropriate and grossly offensive/insensitive remarks by any standard of diplomacy and statesmenship and has a long history of doing so. knowing that, its kinda irrelevant to debate the semantics of any single remark under the idiotic assumption that he is otherwise a perfectly normal person and brilliant statesman whose behavior falls within any acceptable realm or popular definition of normalcy in international politics.

He plays to his audience... His audience is not the "west" and in case you haven't noticed, they're "typically" not as civilised as we pretend to be, nor are they as practiced at double speak as the west ... Outlandish statements are what work for his audience...

What I find hillarious though is that for him (and the real leaders of Iran) not being "brilliant" statesmen, they're outplaying the US at every turn... How much of Iraq is pretty much under the influence of Iran??? Didn't Iraq just make deals with China and Iran??? The US (under Bush's leadership) is a joke when it comes to foreign policy which is what the US presidents primary job is supposed to be.

[CyberHustler]

Israeli women are sexy though...

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

i'm sure he didn't just recently say "we don't have gays in Iran" at a university speech a few weeks ago either. i mean, why would he? its not like he has proven himself to be a total lunatic, prone to saying rediculous things.

The funny thing about what he said is that it's not much different than the position taken by prominent "leaders" in our country. Bush has weekly conference calls with religious leaders that believe just that. That being gay was a choice and that there really aren't "true" gay people in the country. They also believe that gay people are why we get hit by hurricanes and other natural disasters.

[Papillon]

why would anyone give a fuck what daddyhalbucks thinks ?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Appearently no REAL Neocons post on GFY.

The Neocon perspective is simple. We do not give a shit about Iran or Nukes. They got Oil just like Iraq.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Now regarding Nukes, thats a no brainer.

Might makes right, peace through superior firepower is how human survival is based.

For example.

You live in a cave with a tribe with just few other guys and a chick. The guy that subdue's the other men gets to fuck the chick first or exclusively.

Understand?

[DaddyHalbucks]

I guess it all comes down to who you trust. I trust Bush, and I enjoy living in the US. Is our country perfect? Hell, no! But it is still a great place.

If you really trust Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, perhaps you would want to live in Iran.

What I find so curious is that very few or none of GWB's harshest critics want to live in Iran.

This following story may provide one good reason why GFYers wouldn't want to go to Iran:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3276645

[tony286]

Considering there are jews in the iranian parliment, it was just get the people going. I can wanting to have nukes,think about that nut job in korea makes all kinds of threats and they send diplomats.The iraqi nut job doesnt have nukes they send in the army. Nukes looks pretty good.

[GrouchyAdmin]

Both the extreme right, and the extreme left need an enema. With a detonator pack: Let both of them work the fields to 'assist' a country that doesn't really want them there.

Then they'll both get perspective. Of course, they'll entirely fail to see or acknowledge it, but at least I'll be amused.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

I guess it all comes down to who you trust. I trust Bush, and I enjoy living in the US. Is our country perfect? Hell, no! But it is still a great place.

If you really trust Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, perhaps you would want to live in Iran.

What I find so curious is that very few or none of GWB's harshest critics want to live in Iran.

This following story may provide one good reason why GFYers wouldn't want to go to Iran:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3276645

Disagreeing with the government is more American then following the cult.
I quote Teddy: To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

[Profits of Doom]

Originally Posted by tony404

Considering there are jews in the iranian parliment, it was just get the people going. I can wanting to have nukes,think about that nut job in korea makes all kinds of threats and they send diplomats.The iraqi nut job doesnt have nukes they send in the army. Nukes looks pretty good.

There is "A" Jew in the Iranian Parliament, one seat, and if you believe for one second that isn't a token gesture you are wrong...

[Dirty Dane]

You don't have to be a neocon, to see that an Iran with nuclear program is dangerous. First of all, its no secret that they support terror and martyrdom. They founded, trained and supplied Hizbollah... Second, those parts of the world are very unstable, and weapons could fell into the wrong hands OR their powerplants could become easy terrorist targets.
If you wanna support or help with their energy problems, why not alternative options? That would be much better for all parts...except for Iran, if they have evil intentions...

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Profits of Doom

There is "A" Jew in the Iranian Parliament, one seat, and if you believe for one second that isn't a token gesture you are wrong...

I dont believe that if he wanted to destroy all Jews and if he hated them so much there would be no seats. They are trying to make an elected president a monster. They want to sheep to focus on this instead of the real fucking problems this country has. How people dont see this is the Saddam script all over again fucking amazes me.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

You don't have to be a neocon, to see that an Iran with nuclear program is dangerous. First of all, its no secret that they support terror and martyrdom. They founded, trained and supplied Hizbollah... Second, those parts of the world are very unstable, and weapons could fell into the wrong hands OR their powerplants could become easy terrorist targets.
If you wanna support or help with their energy problems, why not alternative options? That would be much better for all parts...except for Iran, if they have evil intentions...

The fucking saudi's pay for a ton of terror, most of the 911 terrorists were saudi and the president is walking holding hands with them . Its all bullshit to take your eye off the ball.

[amateurcanada]

who the fuck is halbucks, i got him on my icq too lol.

[Dirty Dane]

Originally Posted by tony404

The fucking saudi's pay for a ton of terror, most of the 911 terrorists were saudi and the president is walking holding hands with them . Its all bullshit to take your eye off the ball.

Well... as long the Saudis do not have nukes, we don't need to nuke them

[Profits of Doom]

Originally Posted by tony404

I dont believe that if he wanted to destroy all Jews and if he hated them so much there would be no seats. They are trying to make an elected president a monster. They want to sheep to focus on this instead of the real fucking problems this country has. How people dont see this is the Saddam script all over again fucking amazes me.

The Jews that are there were there hundreds of years before the creation of Islam, and the seat that is there is strictly for a political charade. The Iranians claim that they don't hate Jews, only Zionism, and allow the maybe 20,000 Jews that are left there to stay strictly as a political charade to try and prove that bullshit point. Just because Iraq was bullshit doesn't mean Iran isn't a real problem that should have been addressed instead of Iraq...

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Well... as long the Saudis do not have nukes, we don't need to nuke them

either does Iran.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Profits of Doom

The Jews that are there were there hundreds of years before the creation of Islam, and the seat that is there is strictly for a political charade. The Iranians claim that they don't hate Jews, only Zionism, and allow the maybe 20,000 Jews that are left there to stay strictly as a political charade to try and prove that bullshit point. Just because Iraq was bullshit doesn't mean Iran isn't a real problem that should have been addressed instead of Iraq...

Sorry you want to get rid of all jews you dont let them live in your country.If you line is get rid of them there is no need for a charade.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by buzzy

WOW your a retard, first of all they were condeming something which was passed on by a 3rd party translator which was MIS TRANSLATED, how dumb can you get to not realise that?

I'm an atheist btw, your insults show how weak your argument is good job fuckface. and learn how to fucking spell, when do the kids go back to school?

riiight. your position is that all the developed countries in the western world took extraordinary steps, including parlimentary votes to condem a head of state for his remarks... and never bothered to check the facts?

you're brilliant.

you're right. i'm sorry. the EU Parliment and other nations spend their days voting on resolutions to condemn the gossip of the day. totally normal. its actually official protocol. i'm sorry.

i apologize to you and the entire basis of your weak assed retarded argument... wikipedia

[Dirty Dane]

Originally Posted by tony404

either does Iran.

Yeah, thats what they say. Remember Adolf Hitler?

[Pleasurepays]

and to everyone else... yeah. no shit. its politics. of course it is. who said it wasn't? you think you're a fucking genius to point out that a politician panders to his political base? what does what any other head of state and their habits have to do with this persons remarks? absolutely nothing. the discussion isn't about "what everyone else does and says"... its about what one person said.

[Profits of Doom]

Originally Posted by tony404

Sorry you want to get rid of all jews you dont let them live in your country.If you line is get rid of them there is no need for a charade.

Wow, you really don't understand, do you? Unbelievable...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

If you wanna support or help with their energy problems, why not alternative options? That would be much better for all parts...except for Iran, if they have evil intentions...

Again, do your research chief.

In the past 20 years they have had contracts with the U.S., Russia, Britian, France and others for peaceful energy. In every case, the contract was broken. The have a legitimate complaint.

Same as any country does for being told what they can and cannot do. If the U.S. had the EU, Canada, or other countries telling us what we can and cannot do, or have what would happen?

Oh that's right. It has on many issues. The U.S. ignores it.

Start with the international court, UN security counsel resolutions, and move backward from there.

So we flip off other countries on their wishes, and when others do it to the U.S. or international community we have the nerve to be outraged?

Get real..

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

I trust Bush

.... end of thread

and they are afraid of Iran because they are ARABS ( sarcasm ...)

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Yeah, thats what they say. Remember Adolf Hitler?

Please stop this little man from a little country with a big fucking mouth is not Hitler please your smarter than that.

[Profits of Doom]

Originally Posted by tony404

Please stop this little man from a little country with a big fucking mouth is not Hitler please your smarter than that.

Irregardless if you think Israel is ever going to let him get to that point you are sadly mistaken. It doesn't matter what your opinion of him is, if Israel feels threatened they will handle the problem. I know it bugs the hell out of some people that that they take preemptive strikes to protect themselves, but too fucking bad...

[Dirty Dane]

Originally Posted by tony404

Please stop this little man from a little country with a big fucking mouth is not Hitler please your smarter than that.

This "little" man believes in an ideology, Jihad (the struggle), with same concepts you will find in Mein Kampf (my struggle)... somewhere between 10-20% of the muslims worldwide believes in Jihad, and with over 1.5 billion muslims you can do the math.
Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, the Mufti of Jerusalem that fought the palestine cause after the world war, was already cooperating with the nazis pre -and during the world war. Since then the nazi methods have inspired the pan arabic movement. Today you see same sort of propaganda, same brainwashing of their kids (like the Hitler-jugend), same sort of controlling the weaker majority, same sort of manipulating the outside world.... and their enemy number one are the jews.

You know, Israel attacked Iraqs nuclear facilities in the 80's. Don't you think they will do that to Iran too, with that danger hanging facing them? That would be a very dangerous situation, so why not learn from history and do something about it now?

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by buzzy

Question for the NEOCONS on the forum (daddyhalbucks)

OK.. Will throw this into the pot buzzy

I don't care what anyone's views are - everyone is entitled to express whatever views they want on any topic. Some you may think are totally crazy and others super-intelligent, but, bottom line is it just does not matter unless people are supposed to be acting on your behalf (eg leaders etc).

BUT.... one thing I can't stand is hyprocrisy and total dumb idiots. If an individual is at least trying - fine, but listening to crap from the swamp is a total waste of time.

Back to the topic - OK, some folks just "need" to believe in something. It's fairly common and covers all spheres of activity from political dogma to various religious leanings to criminals trying to justify their actions.

And nearer still to the topic - seriously do not give any credence to an individual who appears to have unconditional respect, admiration and trust for an another individual who has a track record of failure for decades. This may be a political figure being "admired" or a child killer - "admiration" comes in some very weirdo forms. And, only my , - this has nothing to do with anything other than brainwashing or propaganda in action. Some folks will follow a pig if you tell them the pig is honorable, representing your interests, will make you rich or has your "beliefs" - it suits them to believe this, it can fall into their "comfort zone" and they like or "need" to belong to a club/group/class/political organisation.

And finally - getting to the point! There are some very weirdo "political organisations" around (much the same as religous orgs/sects), who will, (and have), hijack anything seen as "respectable" within a society and claim to represent that "respected" element. They are utter hypocrites and usually will attempt to politicize your grandmother's knitting patterns given the chance. At the same time, they usually have nothing to offer - anyone. Despite that, a brainwashed dumbed-down element of society will actually follow them like sheep in much the same way as has happened with other extremist regimes and weirdo religous cults. It's a sickness and mental imbalance - not anything to do with eg real political issues or religion.

"Conservatism" has little to do with (OK.. it's a generalised label), "neocons" - they display only a dose of corrupt managed propaganda and dogma, much the same as communism was sold to the masses. Package it right and some will buy it.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Tempest

He plays to his audience...

so did saddam.

[buzzy]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

You don't have to be a neocon, to see that an Iran with nuclear program is dangerous. First of all, its no secret that they support terror and martyrdom. They founded, trained and supplied Hizbollah... Second, those parts of the world are very unstable, and weapons could fell into the wrong hands OR their powerplants could become easy terrorist targets.
If you wanna support or help with their energy problems, why not alternative options? That would be much better for all parts...except for Iran, if they have evil intentions...

They founded and support hezbollah....whats your point? they build schools, hospitals, roads, and all kinds of facilities to help poor people. Don't tell me they are terrorists because they fought people invading their own land.