Truthfully there is only ONE thing that can clean this shit all up.
And his name is

ASH CR OFT.

Government is the only factor or power that can correct this.
You see the market has grown like wildfire. The market, and factors in the market are out of control, and no matter what you or the good old boys want to do you cant prevent it.

You can stand in the way and yell and scream for it to stop, but its too late in the game man. Way too late.

We are in a state now where the market cannot control itself.
Early on it was possible. But not now. Early on these ideas should have been implied, but not now.

I mean look how hard it is for the market to even regualte and control Child Porn, and lolita shit.

If we cant even stop processors to stop billing for this shit, and paysites of this nature from arising, how are we gunna police tgps that simply show this pink that you happen not to like.

The market cant police or correct itself. Not the way you want it to.

The only factor and power that can is the Govenrments.

I suggest you become an anti-porn Lobbyist if you truely what want to do what you wanna do.

You are speaking in ideal and unrealistic terms man.
you cant stop it.
You can only evolve to whats happening.


Sure I can shit and piss aout Kazza all day, about how it hurts us (which it does) but its not going to do me any good.

What do those who evolve and adapt do?
They plant movies and content in kazza and morpheus.

Why, becuse they see the writing on the wall.

Can they stop morpheus or kazza?
No. How will they survive and use this to their advantage?

They plant shit on there. They figure how to make cash with it.

What you are trying to do is outlaw something that is not outlawed. Change the rules of the game yourself.
The market is not this small community as it was years ago.
It has changed. You cant do this.

Like I said you are now better off becoming a politiacl lobbyist, or a politician.

I totally disagree
I think we can correct it and its not about the good old boys.
even though we did pave the way for you guys but thats another story all together.

Its about all the paysite owners not just big sponsors we all need to be active on it.And even the Processors would back it if everyone was active on cleaning up the net.

Anti-Porn Lobbyest Give me a break i've been doing this shit for a very long time. check out my history.

I don't understand why you are so negative about it.
But I guess we can see what happens right. Its not me almost all the paysite owners I talk to are for it big and small.

and a few tgp guys who I'm not going to mention now.

The tgps can except the galleries but if they don't get paid will that webmaster continue to post hardcore or full galleries etc? that is the question?

Roger, im not dogin ya..
I have the SAME concerns about this as you do.

Ive been watching the market saturate with free porn like crazy.
Ive seen the paysite growth BOOM. Everyone has a paysite company now. Ive seen The growth of kazza and morpheus and cringed at that, and hate it when I hear conversations among people saying why pay for porn when ya got kazza.

All we can do is raise the bar on ourselves. Improve ourselves to stay competitive. Improve Quality.
Improve our netorwoking woth one another.

Look at adult.com
Look at all this new shit they have opened jsut in the last 3 months. Lensman sees whats going on. What does he do?
He raises the bar. He gets in the content biz. A perfect way to adapt to what is going on. He makes new quality sites and programs. Exclusive content. No cookie cutter shit.

Raise the bar on yourself.
Its not You VS the Competition anymore.

Its You VS You. You trying to figure out the puzzle we have in terms of how to make a product better. Not how am i gunna shut down this growth in the industry that is spreading like a wildfire.

Where were you when the TGP2 ship sank?

you guys could have supported them a bit more.
There were talks as to increasing thier payouts and everything.

But it just couldnt survive. Good idea, but the market couldnt keep it fueld.

This sounds like a huge tgp2 idea.

But man, i agree with you. Im not in any disagree as to what is going on.

All we differ on is the solution.

Ummm... well if all the big tgp's were basically forced by the big sponsors to accept no hardcore galleries their surfers would very quickly go elsewhere and they would lose their precious sextracker rankings..

All the big tgp's (and small) can build their own paysite easily if they have to..

Surfers have always had access to masses of free porn..

before the net there was free porn on bbs systems, then along came easy net access and usenet blossomed.. millions of pics & vids for free, available to anyone with outlook express..

then came file sharing systems.. try searching for 'bangbus' on directconnect or gnutella.. loads of free vids..

tgp's, picposts, links lists etc.. all free porn and have been around for many years

image search on google and other media search engines - masses of freeporn


for a small tgp to change the rules is no problem, they lose nothing much.. for a big, well established tgp with years of bookmarks and loyal surfers its suicide..


as boneprone said - offer incentives, better payouts to compliant tgp's and the 'revolution' will start from the ground, from the small tgp's and spread.. if 1000 small/medium tgp's comply then you may have control over a very large percentage of the porn surfers..

I hear ya

But when does that bar end we also have new reality sites and exclusive content coming out with great programs.
exclusive content is great ut most guys just want to jerk it real quik and move on.

there are so many surfers who would pay if they can't get it for free we at least need to try or we will just kill ourselves and only a few will be left. and you can kiss everything goodbye because it will all be free and the surfers already know this.
If thats the direction its headed then it really will be to late and we will have a couple years left if we are lucky.

Or the way things are going we can all lower our payouts since the traffic is not worth as much the surfer is valued lower because you know he will cancel during the trial.
why should he continue to pay?

I'm just venting right now. I will at least get the ball rolling I hope others will jump on board

Kewl
I think we can figure it out if everyone helps
it will be the big topic this next few months

Once all the paysite owners and Dialer guys get on board we need to work with everyone to hammer it out.
it can be done . this indusrty is not that big

As boneprone said-that might be the solution I don't know but we need to fuigure this shit out now.
We just need to work together i don't think the big tgp's will lose there traffic they are well to established.

and if some smaller smaller tgp starts there own sites with hardcore galleries all the sponsors will pressure the processors to shut them of. not a problem.

Hell man, if you need me to support ya, and if you get this rollin i will.
We both want the same thing.
We all do. To clean shit up, and reward those that help our market. Getting rid of pink may be a bit extreme.

Realistically i dont think it will work, but in my heart i hope it does.
Brain storm some more ideas bro. This is all just raw thoghts and bar talk we are doin here but its a start.

Thsi was a good healthy discussion.
Raw, but I think its a start.

Dont get your hopes up too high though

damn i must be tired.
I cant type or spell right. (worse than usual)
Its not even 4:00 am yet.

What would happen if all the sponsors would stop giving out free content for Promotion ??

Your asking the sponsors to stop excepting TGP Traffic good.
Then you'r also asking them that they STOP giving away FREE Hardcore Content ???

There are always 2 sides of the medal. Don't just go after the TGP's do go also after the ones who give away the Free Porn.

I'm sure the ones who buy theyr content for the Gallerys are much mor concerned about how much they show then the ones who use FREE content.

No answer me that. Will the sponsors who do agree with your proposal also stop giving away free content or will they give out censored content ??

Ouch! Do you also break legs? ;)

Seriously.. I would not agreee with that.. I don't want any sponsor to dictate to me what I do with my paysite or my tgp.. if a processor would cave in to pressure from another company (my competition) I would run very fast from that processor.. in fact I would say that perhaps there are even legal issues there..

you think things are bad now? there is still shitloads of money being made by *many* sites and companies - solid profit margins, and low cb rates.

i believe things will need to get much 'worse', before they will get any better.

even if you could completely rid the net of tgps (not just kill hardcore galleries), the traffic would simply reshuffle itself to kazza et al. free porn (lots of it) is here to stay. with more becoming available each day... along with new ways to aquire it en masse.

evolve or die.

I hear ya My eyes are red LOL

I think there will be a board set up for this very soon for all the sponsors and tgp and paysite owners to chat on and hammer it out.
But just about all the big sponsors and little paysites i've talk to are ready to back it and thats about 15 that I talke dto so far.
once I get there aproval to post who is backing it I hope everyone esle jumps on board

I think the sponsors will censor or just give out mellow content no pink. make them pay for it don't give them the whole cow.

Someone once told me (My ex) LOL
why buy the milk when I can get the cow for free.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself I said we need the TGp's they just need to clean it up.
people will still go there and see the hot new chicks. they just have to pay for it if they want to see more..

Mark the way it will be set up the industry tgp's,paysitescompanies ,webmasters etc. will police it not the sponsors so your right step into the danger zone and you will go down.

the industry needs to police itself just like any other industry we need rules to continue to do business
we just can't be the yahoo cowboys anymore.
Hell yea it was fun but those days are over

Disturbing.

Quiet and I are on the same wavelength.
Not that i didnt think we would, its just cool to see.

so what your saying is evolve or die.

So lets take the regulations of all car exhausts and let the ozone layer keep depleting and we will survive and evolve.

Or do we try to clean it up and continue to live comfortably

I under stand i've seen it get worse over the years I've seen many companies come and go every year. but if we don't do this or at least try we will all be screwed.


I can't fuckin type anymore
Late:glugglug

The auto industry could care less or give a fuck about polution.

The only reason US autos care is becasue of GOVERNMENT regualtions.

Laws, incentives, and $$.

You just proved my point

you're completely missing the point.

*if* you managed to kill all hardcore on all tgps (and that's a HUGE if) - said hardcore (and the associated traffic looking for it) would simply reshuffle to new places and formats of delivery.

the only way to kill hardcore porn outside of pay sites at this point, is via government regulation. but good luck with your union.

i was going to post more or less the same thing, but you already covered it ;)

ok so ive been out drinking but....

Sponsors should have a plethora of hosted galleries, not just 10 of so per site but hundreds updated regularly

get rid of the gallery submitter

make life easier for the tgp owner, give them revenue from their gallery views without hosting costs... have them not worry about cheating gallery submitters etc plus some traffic back in ratio to gallery views

... ok so its a combination of sponsor hosted galleries, diabolic galleries, and choker traffic

somethin like that

that wasn't the point.
Come on all I'm saying is we need to regulate it on our own.
so we have many more years of profit.

If it doesn't happen.
then we might as well all have tgp's and give it all away for free.
Fuck it.

im glad we agree!
I knew I could get you to understand!

Go to sleep Roger.
Its late.
Recharge the battery, and we can all do this again tomorrow.

We'll come up with somethin.

This is all a start.

LOL
watch what happens I don't think we should let that happen.

But all that could mean is there will be no money to support all the free shit and we start all over again.

:thumbsup

Peace out cause I'm passing out

same here.
lets let the Russians talk it over as we sleep.
They should be waking up around now.

There is only one way to slow free porn from TGP's and thats make them more money buy offering less the allmighty dollar is all that matters. Nobody will change when your offering less money. Paysites dont care about free stuff and shit newbie galleries sending them traffic they make good money on the exit traffic.
I think I may have the answer but Im not ready to go public just yet. Boneprone Id like to have a chat please hit me on ICQ
77762980.

Bake, are you ready to join the family?

napster's demise gave rise to many other peer-to-peers. hurt the big tgp's - and new ones will pop up after 5 mins. russia will replace holland as trafficville. after 5.2 secs there will be 28 new affiliate programs that accept the traffic from those new tgps... as for processors - it is both unconstitutional and commercially wrong to refuse service in order to help the formation of a monopoly. but regardless - there will be 14 new processors after 2 days - who will accept and service this new system. you will never be able to shut down tgp's or refuse billing to other sites etc. too many entrepreneurs out there just waiting for the "big guys" to make that mistake - to start their own empire.

in the last 5000 years many people tried to overtake/control/rule the world. the only one who succeeded was "free market". you will never succeed to control the market by consolidating an artificial monopoly. too easy to destroy the plan. you can't force the genie back into the bottle.

but just in case i am wrong - count me in


:Graucho

big sponsors now cater to tgp's with free hosted galleries and free hosting, they aren't just going to shut them off if they are making money....

there will always be some sponsor to cater to tgp's

hey Boneprone, regulation from gov. should be left out altogether, in my view. That is VERY dangerous and can become a sort of censorship at some point. Raising quality and learning how to compete is perhaps, as you suggested, a better route. A 'free markets' challenge.

It hurts for all of us at present, and the hurting period may be a long one but eventually markets level, if we allow them to, by limiting regulation. Those who cannot compete, adapt or don't learn to take advantage of newly created opportunities will be the usual crybabies. If anything, challenging times will makes us smarter.

I agree with the idea of increasing incentives to publish softer galleries, and I disagree with the idea of doing anything that will hurt TGPs or interfere with their own dynamics. TGPs and paysites are as much partnerships as manufacturers are with their distributors, and as in brick and mortar life, there must be cooperation between them.

Just a suggestion but wouldn't it help that sponsors stopped providing free content all together? I mean, if you take any sponsor and look at my gallery queue 70% or more is all premade template stuff.

What do a lot new gallery makers do when they first start? Make 30 pic galleries of all hardcore sponsor content on some freehost and complain about no sales.

The sponsors that provide movie content that are clips as opposed to trailors are destroying the value of those clips. I get full 1 minute movies posted as galleries which would be great if i didnt care about selling movie site memberships.

The idea basically is that people intelligent enough to buy their own content will be smart enough to know what to give away and what to save for a members section.

Granted I was new once too, but the first thing i did was go out and buy my own content and my own payhosting. I'm not implying to get rid of freehosts, but maybe evaluate the person registering for one a little closer. I think this would help me, speaking as a small tgp owner.

again just my :2 cents:

RogerV - nice idea, but I am not too sure it will fly. I know of one sponsor that will not accept TGP traffic (although TGP2, and Free Paysite Password technique traffic is welcome - go figure), and they have a rep for only paying whale accounts. That had zero impact.

I do not doubt your connections with major players, but please, tell me how a big company will be able to police this. I'd think companies would be examining downizing during a recession, not looking to hire enough staff to surf TGPs and cancel accounts. Not too mention that even if the major companies were to unite, you'd really have to exert pressure on the smaller partnership programs in order for this to work. Would that fall under collusion? Big guys telling little guys how to run their business seems to be something I'd watch on the Sopranos.

Just for the record, I am not against losing hardcore. Much like Shemp, I do not ask for hardcore galleries from gallery builders. I also think softcore sells better. But I am sorry, I just do not have a lot of faith in anyone pulling this off. Even if you got 75% of the TGPs to agree to something, the other 25%(maybe guys using rougue sponsors, or who own their own paysites and don't play exit footsie with the big boys) will fuck up the "revolution".

Why is it no one has pointed the real truth here. This RodgerV guy isn't capable of making any money off TGP and instead of being smart enough to figgure out a way to make money off TGP he wants to blaim someone or something for his failure.

Guess what RodgerV, lots of people make a LOT of money from TGP, it's just you and a couple other IDIOTS that are incapable of making it work. Just face it, you're an idiot.

TGP made more money this last year than EVER, (a lot more) dispite those idiots incapable of making it work for them.

SD, I think ROgerV has stated that his program can convert TGP traffic great, but it sounds like he does not have a large number of affiliates who push him TGP traffic. I was wondering if he'd be so gung ho to reform TGP's if he had a shitload of newbie webmasters pumping a lot of TGP traffic into his exit chain.

Regardless, I would have to agree with him about the softcore/hardcore theory. But I remember TGP2, and there was not a lot of support for that movement(sadly). I would be surprised if you can get all the big sponsors to agree to anything. And if you did, would it even be legal to admit it, publicly?

TGP made more than ever this year because instead of sharing (like it should be), now you are SELLING your junk traffic to the gallery makers. And now you can take all your hardly earned cash and throw a big tgp circle-jerk party in vegas. But you know I sure as hell won't be there because I'll be at the party with las chicas. :thumbsup

And i may be an IDIOT, but you know what??? At least I have REAL friends, not a bunch of cocksmokes hanging off my nuts cause I talk myself up to be something i'm not.

All the money is the world isn't going to buy you respect. Get a life... http://bbs.underwearlounge.com/image...s/new_tool.gif

I was wondering the same thing when I asked him to throw some real numbers and not any fuzzy math about his traffic. Why would anyone in their right mind want to sell their traffic unless it was shit?


I mean a lot of these big TGP's sell gallery spots for 30 bucks a pop. Why would u sell a spot for 30 dollars a listing when u can make many more times that with a per signup sponsor? TGP's are good for up and comming paysites to get your name out here and there but face it. How much traffic would there really be to paysites without freesites?

Hmm. Roger V, is PornKings yours? I just signed up for PornKings about a week ago and was getting ready to start promoting them on Thumbzilla. I did not realize that you apparently consider TGPs to be the enemy. My bad.

Translation: Amway works! Look at all the Amway starter kits I sold this year!

I love the irony of some big-head TGP guy (not saying all are, but Sleazy sure is), calling a guy like Roger who is straight up, intelligent AND runs a big-ass webmaster program, an idiot because he thinks that TGP traffic sucks.

Get a clue Sleazy. Perhaps if you eat the right food, you will acquire one - that seems to have been your strategy so far.

Roger - I support this idea, I think that anything you can do to stem the tide will help even if it isn't 100% effective. I don't think it needs to be 100% effective to work.. It's not like these surfers have a strategic overview of the entire internet.. If every TGP they look at there's no hardcore, most will just assume that there's no hardcore on the net and pony up. There doesn't have to be total coverage.

Cheers,
Backov

How would a hardcore TGP (specializing in cumshots or something) operate? And how can you advertise a hardcore sponsor without hardcore galleries? I used to advertise cumshot sites like Amateur Facials...and using softcore pics will get you 0 sign-ups. Using their free content that shows facials will convert out the ass.

ok I didnt read everything but I get the idea and it wont work that way.

lets see it the way it is:
the major tgp owners have a shitload of traffic on their hands, they got repeat- and repeat- and REPEAT visitors, they trade traffic with other tgps like theirs and they HAVE to follow rules, rules and a few other rules.

oh and of course they dont want to lose their sextracker rank :1orglaugh

now if sponsors stopped supporting those "hardcore tgps" the only effect would be dozens of new paysites per day which accept those hardcore tgps.

my solution:
shut all freehosts down on 1/1/2003
remove any free content for programs which dont necessarily need it (for example reality sites with a fixed topic: bangbus, ...)

as stupid as it sounds... kill the newbies and 2003 would be a better year.

kinda offtopics already, sorry

TGP's are a wonderful way to herd traffic. Very few types of businesses have that many customers in one place for samples of a product! If tgp's weren't around people would use Kazaa which is much worse and you would have a harder time controlling it!

I think Boneprone has a great idea in using higher payouts as an incentive to change.

Why on earth would a sponsor care if Person A can't convert TGP traffic? People B,C,D, and E can and they're sending a shitload of sales from TGP traffic.

btw, anyone who runs a sponsor program and thinks this is a great idea...you're free to do it. :)

If it's such a great idea, why do you *still* accept TGP traffic? No one says you have to.

You can spend your days tracking referring URL's and canning people who send you signups because you don't like their traffic source. :thumbsup

you guys do realize visa and mc will have all your asses on a silver platter if they so choose, right?

QUIET DOWN!

I always sell MONSTER FACIAL GANGBANGS by showing chicks in bikinis drinking trendy bottled water.

Best post on this thread.