RayVega

A friend of my 10 yr old daughter is convincing her that people were put on this planet by God, starting with Adam and Eve!!

We are not religious, and if anything follow the philosophy of Buddha. definitely not Christianity or Judaism.

Now I have to handle this delicately. I don't want to shit on her friends beliefs, but I won't have my kid believing that a magic man in the sky created people by molding them from the earth, when it has been scientifically proved to be a myth.

I tried to explain to her that Adam and Eve are a metaphor for the origins of life...but she goes back to her friend and tells her that, and her dumb ass friend who has been brainwashed tells her differently. Now she is confused.

Now what to do? let it go? force the issue? I'm leaning toward just letting it go and when she gets older her common sense will kick in and she'll see the truth. I have always allowed my kids to believe as they will. But NOT believing in evolution?!!! that's just crazy.

What should I do? Any opinions?

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Ray "The Don" Vega

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Brother Bilo

Welcome to my life. I'm am the only non believer in a family of born agains. I still have 4 or 5 bibles that are still in the bag they gave them to me in.

Hopefully they just give up soon.

I haven't figured out how to deal with it exactly, I just don't bring it up. Doesn't exactly work for your situation though.

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RayVega

I feel for you. I'm probably going to draw some fire for saying this but I cannot help believing that the weak just need something to believe in.

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Ray "The Don" Vega

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Brother Bilo

Agreed. My honest opinion of religion is that it was designed by very intelligent people that wanted to control a mass of unintelligent people without the use of a large army. So why not say there is a god/gods that will smite you if you do this or that.

I just can't put faith in anything that I can't see/touch/smell/or prove.

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Dirty Dane

Tell her that Jesus got owned, and then explain the difference between evolution and revolution

Antonio

recent dna study of men of all races confirms that we all came from Africa (from the San people) so technically we are all niggaz

theking

Uhh...no it has not been "scientifically" proven. To the best of my knowledge there is zero evidence of macro evolution...but there is quiet alot of evidence of micro evolution (with some quite large gaps in the evidence). Thus it opens the doors to believe one or the other...but at this point either one is no more than a belief.

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Elli

I had this problem too, as my parents were raising me agnostic/atheist but let me choose my own beliefs as I wanted. I found it helped if they said things like "that's what some people choose to believe." Or just be honest and say, "People need to explain things they can't understand, like how the world began. So they make up stories that seem likely. God is an explanation like that."

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StuartD

a thousand years from now, or so... people will look back on religion now just like we look back on people who believed in Zeus and Hera.

Let your children choose what to believe. Encourage them to ask more questions and find out the most they can from either side of the coin and make their own decisions.

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High Plains Drifter

Hahaha!!

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High Plains Drifter

theking, do you believe in Adam and Eve?

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halfpint

what i dont get is, if this is true why do you not get black people with blue eyes. I think we have all evolved from diff countrys hence the different skin pigments and facial feature difference...just look at the chinese

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ne0

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TeenSluts

Dinosaurs Were Put On This Planet To Test Our Faith !!!!!

theking

I do not believe the bible represents the word of a "God". I allow for the possibilty of "intelligent design" I also allow for the possibility of evolution but until there is empirical proof of "ID" or macro evolution...I do not "believe" either.

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kane

I have always said any belief in how we got here is blind. You can choose to believe either A: There is a God (or higher power) and he created everything including us. This means you have blindly believe in this higher power and believe that he somehow magically came into being. You also have to believe that he loved us so much that he took the time to make us the perfect animal , yet instilled in us an innate desire to harm each other

or B: There was a bunch of stuff floating around that eventually collected and exploded causing the universe. Our planet happened to settle into an orbit around the sun that made the environment life-friendly. We then all eventually evolved from a giant vat or organic soup. This means you have to blindly believe that this stuff just existed and came together perfectly and some of the people way down on your family tree were once amoebas, fish and monkeys.

Either way there are no clear answers. I would just tell her that there are different theories out there. Her friend believes the way she does and other people believe the way they do and eventually as she gets older she will decide for herself which one makes more sense to her.

WinstonTriplexcash

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/index.html

Must watch!!!

qxm

....my dad is a Pastor and Here I am ;) .......... He's been trying to convince me for years now that I should believe things based on faith...and that faith is nothing but "a Certainty and trust based on the knowledge gained by having known a person or a Deity" ......yeah right!.... we spent freaking hours looking up different dictionaries (greek, spanish, english) .. and they all came up with the definition that faith is a "belief that is not based on proof"... so it can't be a certainty...... if it were people would use this concept as:

I'm sure you will do it..........instead of .........I have faith you will do it...

Anyways that is just one concept, another one is that his Bible teachings can not place the dinosaurs in history... the bible doesn't talk about them or registers their existence.... yet we have the freaking massive bones that tells us they existed!....

I can go on for hours ....... but I just have to say, I have nothing against believers......... as long as they don't try to force their "glorious" beliefs on me... ;)

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theking

I have watched it before and it is pigshit...with many provable falsehoods...but do not expect me to list any of them for you...as you can do your own research.

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Brother Bilo

What the hell is this? I got about 5 or 6 minutes into it, is it the same the whole 2 hours?

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qxm

another concept......

Many of these pastors and preachers constantly try to disprove scientific findings and procedures.... for instance... I had a group of 3 pastors gather around to discus how the carbon-14 dating test is completely inaccurate and wrong....... so based on.....#%@@# I have to believe the scientists are wrong and they are right?!....... these pastors have never taken a math/chemistry/physics class and I'm suppose to believe them??......

they try to do the same thing with evolution...

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qxm

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Dirty Dane

All life root from stardust, it will all end as stardust, and the only escape is evolution. Religion is only an excuse for ignoring or not understanding these facts.

RayVega

[QUOTE=qxm;13183849]....Anyways that is just one concept, another one is that his Bible teachings can not place the dinosaurs in history... the bible doesn't talk about them or registers their existence.... yet we have the freaking massive bones that tells us they existed!....
QUOTE]

This is so true. the reason dinosaurs ruling the earth isn't in the bible is because the PEOPLE who write it didn't know about the dinosaurs. There are hundreds of "books" left out of the bible which was commissioned by emperor Constantine because they were completely conflicting. For example, Incest is a sin...yet several books suppressed and made illegal told about how Adam had intercourse with his own daughters to create offspring (something we know today would be genetically devastating to a race). ever wonder how it's Adam and eve...then all of a sudden they have sons, who are married?

Then there's the book that describe Jesus' childhood. As a child Jesus did fucked up shit like kill another child and destroy artwork out of anger. BUT, that would prove that Jesus is Imperfect, and not the same as God (a fundamental of Christianity).

The bible was written by people and then edited by people to control the uneducated masses.

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Ray "The Don" Vega

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theking

I will repeat...to the best of my knowledge there is not any evidence of macro evolution...other than the assumption that since there is some evidence of micro evolution...macro evolution must have taken place...but that leaves macro evolution it in the area of "belief" without any supporting evidence other than an "assumption".

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RayVega

But if you had to choose. Which would you go with?

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lazycash

You lost me at the end, please point me to this scientific proof of the origin of life.

theking

I really do not choose "ID" or "evolution" since there is no evidence to support macro evolution other than an assumption that macro evolution must have taken place in order for there to be micro evolution...but that is a large leap to make because micro evolution can happen based upon "ID" and would not require macro evolution. Evolution per se does require macro evolution to have happened and not just micro evolution.

I do think that there is alot of evidence to support micro evolution so I think (not believe) that micro evolution has happened and is still in the process of happening.

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qxm

OK I will concur with you on that premise, however based on on this uncertainty (macroev) many try to disprove several scientific studies.... for instance I had a pastor say:

The universe is obviously expanding because it is preparing the path of the second coming of Jesus to earth. He said that when he tried to disprove the big bang theory.... now.. think.. universe expansion due to a major explosion is a theory which makes sense (but still a theory)......... universe expansion due to the second comming of Jesus.....ahhh:

I finally asked his opinion about "gravity" (the planetary force)....and he said a whole lot of mombo jombo......and to conclude his explanation on gravity he threw this line at me:

Don't you think it is amazing how the earth is suspended in the "air" and it "doesn't fall"?! ............ Should I explain all the things that are horribly wrong with that statement?????

So I'll choose not to believe people who have the guts (or ignorance) to debate me on such grounds!!

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theking

Feel free to "believe" whatever you choose to "believe" or even to think whatever you choose to think...I am not attempting to change your "beliefs" or thinking.

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tony286

Ray tell her : you know the fairy tales I read you when you were young? Well thats what the adam & eve story is its a fairy tale.
I went to a catholic high school and our religious studies teacher who was a priest said the old testament is all made up stories to control the uneducated masses. The christian wackos hold tightly to the old testament because the teachings of christ wouldnt let them hate and judge at the level they do . Jesus was all about Love, judge no one , whatsoever you do to the least of my brother. Its hard to have a hate agenda with those teachings.
Even with Jesus, the church edited it. The gospel of thomas which was banned is said to be the closest to Jesus's actual words. It states you dont need a church and dont petition the lord with prayer. Those things didnt work for them.

tony286

if dinosaurs and man were on earth at the same time, man wouldnt be here today.lol

Porn Farmer

Your knowledge is lacking.

Here is some evidence for macro evolution: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

nastynun

You should check out Richard Dawkins videos.

Just tell her the truth that its a fairytale when it comes to religion. Or a guide for some humans to try and live by even though they never really do for the most part lol. Why not be honest with her? She is already asking questions so why lie to her? There are also some good books out there for kids on Evolution.

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qxm

We once again AGREE!

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halfpint

I would give her the freedom of choice to choose what she wants to believe in and as she gets older she will understand the universe a lot more. Its the same thing as kids believing in father christmas at a young age..she will learn as she gets older.

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theking

I have read this article before and conlude that it does not offer any evidence. When I speak of evidence I speak in terms of empirical evidence (I should have mentioned this before)...such as the empirical evidence supporting micro evolution.

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D

Everything is assumption. There are no absolutes. This is Pholosophy 101.

Science is and always has been a process of falsification. You observe, based on what you observe (since it's impossible to observe all individual occurrences of anything to the point that you have a valid and absolute generalization), make a theory, and with that theory, state predictions.

If your predictions don't come true (u.e. is falsified), then you know that your theory is false. if your predictions do come true, you work with that theory as the basis for your conclusions until something better (perhaps more general) comes along and racks up accurate predictions in an area that your theory falls short.

That's the way science has worked since the beginning of time.

And everything that is science right now points toward natural selection as the way of things - both on the macro and micro scale. Darwin, Sagan, Crick... all their work tends to lend to the believe that we evolve. Entire species of animals adapt to their surroundings... ecosystems present environments where species must find their niche, or suffer extinction as they find themselves without a pot to piss in.

Sure there's room for the intelligent design arguement... I, personally, certainly think it's possible that we had a helping hand somewhere along the way.... but that doesn't make the process of evolution (both on a micro and macro scale) any less valid.

In response to RayVega, my advice is to just tell her what you said here... while emphasizing that she should respect other people's beliefs, the simple fact of the matter is that you feel people don't like not knowing things - and before we had microscopes, and telescopes, and all the stuff we have today, people invented stories (possibly based partially (/metophorically) in truth) to explain the unknown. stars were the fallen warriors, and disease was a curse, and lightning was the anger of a big guy in the sky who threw lightning bolts. Now, we know better... but there are still some unknowns that make people uneasy - like where we go when we die, and what our purpose is here... and in order to satisfy their lack of knowledge - instead of just realizing that they do not know - some people feel more comfortable having stories to fall back on. Aside from that, I'd say let her find her own path - she's going to have to eventually... just be a source of inspiration to her in her life.

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minusonebit

First of all, don't worry about shitting on her friends beliefs. Did her friends show the same consideration before they tried to brainwash her?

You could also tell her to ask her friends for PROOF. Thats the one thing all these religious crazies cannot come up with and thats PROOF that this bullshit they spew is actually true. Tell her that people should have proof before they believe in something.

I am the only atheist in a family of catholics and protestants and we even have a few people with "Rev." in front of their name. So I know how you feel.

qxm

Well... If she asks for proof, the kid who is trying to convince her daughter will go to her parents for support and if her parents don't have an answer they will go to their pastor/priest, etc ......... if this happens Ray will have to deal with a series of people who will throw some long sales pitches at him.... and besides when it comes to "evolution" people try their best to disprove each other.... for instance:

Some science will say that the dinosaurs died because of a massive asteroid/meteor or perhaps a comet ... (hence the Yucatan crater) ...

The spiritual/religious party may then argue that it was in fact the "great flood" and they will resort to the many layers or rocks in the grand canyon and marine life found in now high mountains.........

So his best bet is to tell her daughter not to escalate this argument and respect the other child's beliefs.......

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Porn Farmer

So how do you provide 'empirical' evidence for something that happens over millions of years? If, by empirical, you mean observed.

jollyperv

I think like 70% of the morons in this country don't believe in evolution, good luck convincing a 10 year old.

qxm

Typo Correction....
Science supporters will say that the dinosaurs died because of a massive asteroid/meteor or perhaps a comet ... (hence the Yucatan crater) ...

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theking

The same way that empirical (observable) evidence is used to support micro evolution.

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Porn Farmer

Micro evolution can be documented because it can happen over short periods of time, such as in the case of the peppered moth.

You haven't answered my question. How can something that happens over millions of years be 'observed'?

qxm

If "observable" evidence were the only form of evidence used to prove or disprove something.......then electrons (which can't be seen) as well as gravity would not exist......

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RayVega

You are a Genius!!! I told her that her friend believes in Adam and Eve the same way she used to believe in Santa and the Easter bunny, and that she shouldn't ruin it for her friend. DONE!

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Ray "The Don" Vega

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qxm

Nicely put

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Porn Farmer

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