This industry is filled with hypocrites

[kane]

So I have read much of the Directnic drama and some other threads from today including the girls gone wild thread and have been on this board for a while. All I can do is laugh at the hypocrisy that shows up.

I can't count the number of times in the past that I have seen a thread where someone mentions that they have happened across a site that could be/probably is CP and they want to report it so they are asking where and how to do that. Some people are stupid enough to actually post the url of the site in the thread. People trip over their keyboards to post about how disgusting this is and how these sites need to be shut down right now and how these people need to be hung, drug behind a car and sent through a meat grinder. People suggest contacting the host, the domain registrar, ASACP, the FBI and so on. When a few hours have passed and the site is still up, they want to form a posse and go hunt for the webmaster. But then Directnic gets a complaint about a site that someone thinks might be CP, they contact the owner of the site and want some proof that it's not and everyone shits their pants and wants to talk about how unjust this is. In the girls gone wild thread people are actually laughing and even suggesting they use the fact that they were found guilty of having an underage person in their movies as a promotional tool. Where'd the outrage go?

Now I'm not defending Directnic. I think there was probably a better way for them to handle this. Nor am I saying that CP shouldn't be investigated and shut down as soon as possible because it should be. The problem is that this industry loves to push the boundaries. There are a ton of sites out there that try hard to make the girls look as young as possible. If you have been around the industry for any amount of time you can see the pics of the girls, you know who they are and what company runs their site. If you are not in the industry you might find some pic of a girl with braces and pigtails licking a lollipop and holding a teddy bear and think she might be underage.

Would it not have been a reasonable scenario to comply with Directnic's demands, give them what they wanted which sounded like a photo ID with everything blacked out but the picture and the birth date (you could even send them url of the affiliate program the promotes them) allow that to satisfy what they need and then, once everything is cleared up, decide that if they have broken a law or have violated your rights in any way you can then sue them?

This is, however, a slippery slope. All we need now is to have webmasters suing registrars and hosts and vice versa and everyone reporting everyone else. There is no argument that the laws are getting more strict and they will continue to do so. It is in the best interest of all webmasters to work with hosts, affiliate programs, registrars and even lawmakers when possible to fashion some sense of community that will help keep all legitimate businesses open and help ease the load of those trying to hunt down and eliminate actual CP.

Many webmasters use sponsor provided content. Many of them, to comply with the recent changes to the 2257 laws, will make the 2257 docs available to you only if you are being inspected. I know a few sponsors where you can download a zip file that has all the 2257 docs then if you are getting inspected you call them and they give you the password to unlock it and give the inspectors what they need. It has yet to be determined if this is actually complying with the law or not - from the webmasters point of view, but it can be safe to say that there are probably sponsors out there that will not release this information to a company like Directnic. In these cases the webmaster is screwed.

However, it sounds to me like through some phone calls and emails this entire mess between Slick and Directnic could have been solved as long as Slick either has or can get access to the proper 2257 docs or can provide them with info that would get the evidence into Directnic's hands that the site is legal. I understand that Directnic is not the FBI. I also understand that, as far as I understand, they have no legal right to demand 2257 docs. I also understand though that they do retain the right to shut down any site for just about any reason. I would venture to guess that just about every domain registrar has a similar clause(s) in their TOS. I don't see this changing until someone decides to challenge it in court.

For me the bottom line is a simple one and it is one that I have always followed. If you are going to deal with content that may be pushing some boundaries, then you need expect trouble and be prepared if potential trouble comes your way. Directnic could have just made screenshots, turned the site off and called the FBI. I understand that Slick has done nothing wrong, but in the end which is worse, having to deal with some red tape and headaches or having your site shut down and the police crashing in your door? I would make this suggestion to all webmasters. If you are using sponsor supplied content and there could be any question whatsoever about the age of the models, email the sponsor, send them the urls to these threads and ask them if they would be willing to make available, upon need, a copy of photo ID with everything blacked out but the picture and the birth date. If they say no, you might want to consider not using them because if this situation arises with you, you will have no recourse and could stand to lose a lot of work and money.

I apologize for the long post.

[who]

Well I just think that people need to be very careful what they put on their websites. Cover their bases. I guess you've pretty much said it all anyway. Good post. I could swear you're a stand up guy.

[After Shock Media]

No need to apologize for the long posts, we need more.

Yes the industry is full of hypocrites, and yes very few of us can work together well. It will be exploited and will become our own downfall.

[ElvisManson]

Lawrence Walters from Weston, Garrou & DeWitt published an article quite a while ago on how Vulnerable the "Gate Keepers" of our industry are to Government pressure.

He lists the billing processors, AVS's, hosts, ISPs and merchant banks as gatekeepers. It looks like he can now add registars to that list.

"While the adult Internet industry was bracing for an onslaught of obscenity prosecutions against adult Websites, government officials were one step ahead, and plotting actions against the industry's Gatekeepers: the billing processors, AVS's, hosts, ISPs and merchant banks. The conversations taking place in the prosecutors' conference rooms have not focused on whether fisting or double penetration is obscene, they have honed in on choking the industry's Gatekeepers. Law enforcement departments have a budget too: they try to get as much bang for their buck as the average webmaster. "How can we shut down a thousand webmasters for the price of one prosecution?" they may be asking. It didn't take them long to figure out that access to adult Websites is critically dependent on the permission and continued services of a Website's: (1) hosting company; (2) third party billing processor (now called ISPS); (3) Age Verification Service (AVS); and/or, (4) merchant bank."

the full article can be found at http://www.firstamendment.com/chokeh...tekeepers.php3

[Bake]

What he said and yes I'm glad he typed all that not me

[kane]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

No need to apologize for the long posts, we need more.

Yes the industry is full of hypocrites, and yes very few of us can work together well. It will be exploited and will become our own downfall.

I agree. I often see people saying things like, "Why do we form a lobby group." or things of that nature and there are countless posts about how great it would be. Then a few weeks later there is a post wanting people to join the FSC which is one of the few organizations that actually does fight for us and there is no end to people complaining about having to pay a few hundred dollars to join.

This seems like it is an industry of "every person for themselves." If you are alone and you decide to walk on the edge, don't be surprised when you get cut.

[Cyber Fucker]

I think that people are just people, wherever you are you will find idiots and hypocrites and this industry is not an exception.

[kane]

Good article Elvis. For some reason the board won't let me quote your post though

[kane]

I think that people are just people, wherever you are you will find idiots and hypocrites and this industry is not an exception.

that's very true. It doesn't help this industry that a person can sit in near anonymity behind a keyboard and fire off.

[Scott McD]

Too much to quote from that, but i pretty much agree with everything you said.

Most people are guilty at some point, but it's how they go about it that matters...

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by kane

I agree. I often see people saying things like, "Why do we form a lobby group." or things of that nature and there are countless posts about how great it would be. Then a few weeks later there is a post wanting people to join the FSC which is one of the few organizations that actually does fight for us and there is no end to people complaining about having to pay a few hundred dollars to join.

This seems like it is an industry of "every person for themselves." If you are alone and you decide to walk on the edge, don't be surprised when you get cut.

While I agree I also have to dissagree a wee bit. Even though I joined up with the FSC, I have felt very let down. I had an odd feeling from the get go it would either cater more to the video side, or the large players. Sort of felt this organization would not do what is really needed. I personally feel we need another organization.

Though most people would stand by figuring every one else will pay the bill and protect them without that person lifting a finger, like it always is.

It is a loose loose.

[PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE]

EVERY industry is filled with hypocrites.

[bl4h]

I agree kane. Thanks for writing that!

at some point we've got to meet in the middle

[kane]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

While I agree I also have to dissagree a wee bit. Even though I joined up with the FSC, I have felt very let down. I had an odd feeling from the get go it would either cater more to the video side, or the large players. Sort of felt this organization would not do what is really needed. I personally feel we need another organization.

Though most people would stand by figuring every one else will pay the bill and protect them without that person lifting a finger, like it always is.

It is a loose loose.

I agree. the FSC isn't a perfect organization by any means. I guess I was referring to a situation that came up back when the new 2257 law went into effect. The FSC fought it (and still is) and got an injunction stopping inspections for secondary producers. They said that to be covered under the injunction you needed to be a member of the FSC. Now that may or may not be legally correct, but it would seem to me that it would be well worth a couple hundred dollars to join and make sure. The threads that showed up were amazing. People were talking about being blackmailed and all kinds of stuff. Last I checked the FSC was the only group fighting this and I didn't see any of these so called "blackmailed" webmasters who also hated the law forming their own legal group to fight it.

The FSC could be better, but it could also be much worse or non existent.

[darksoul]

The problem here is that, even if Slick's content is questionable, I personally find think he is aware that he's pushing something that looks like cp, its not up to Directnic to decide if its cp or not.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by darksoul

The problem here is that, even if Slick's content is questionable, I personally find think he is aware that he's pushing something that looks like cp, its not up to Directnic to decide if its cp or not.

Agree totally - and have not seen what the subject matter is, so can't comment.

It is not the responsibility of a registrar to police domain content - they answer to ICANN or if they have a problem, law enforcement are waiting for their call.

Can't say I'm waiting on any person in this industry to work together on some concept of a legal club or otherwise - I'll be dead before that happens - and spent enough decades in this biz to know better. If you don't like the laws - get the hell out of this business or the problem jurisdiction and quit whining. Anything else, including hypocracy, is irrelevant.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Webby

Agree totally - and have not seen what the subject matter is, so can't comment.

It is not the responsibility of a registrar to police domain content - they answer to ICANN or if they have a problem, law enforcement are waiting for their call.

Can't say I'm waiting on any person in this industry to work together on some concept of a legal club or otherwise - I'll be dead before that happens - and spent enough decades in this biz to know better. If you don't like the laws - get the hell out of this business or the problem jurisdiction and quit whining. Anything else, including hypocracy, is irrelevant.

Scary when we agree.... lol

[Webby]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Scary when we agree.... lol

And... should have remembered earlier... was mentioned a few days back..

Get you ass up to your website and comply with the laws you operate under and get a 2257 notice to cover your sample sex videos.

Classic you agree which something you are not even complying with.

[Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE]

and the story continues to unfold......

[LC FUBAR]

So you know that this industry is filled with hypocrites now, then?