I don't disagree about the problem of full videos being available out there. That's a serious issue and needs to be dealt with. We don't disagree with that.

But as for the rest of your assumptions, especially about "most" porn surfers not being savvy, you're absolutely wrong.. Most of what you've said was true at one point, but it's not as much today and becoming even less as each day passes. For "casual" porn surfers, it's still somewhat true but even that percentage has decreased and those are becoming less and less as well. How many guys are entered college this year and have a laptop compared to 5 years ago? Even the "newbies" which used to be the bread and butter of "throw anything at them and they'll buy" marketing techniques are more savvy than they used to be. This is where the "adapt" or die comes in.

Again.. You're statement that "serious" porn surfers don't buy is blatently false. If it was true, then bookmarkers on my sites wouldn't be buying membership to the porn sites I promote and I know they do. How do I know? Two reasons.. The first being that sites that have a good bookmark base earn more money for me than those that don't... In addition, whenever I start to promote a new site, I get a ton of sales. Those are from experienced surfers who know what's available and can recognise a new site and so want to get in and grab some "fresh" stuff they've never seen before. I've experienced this time and time again and so know it's very true. In addition, if "serious" porn surfers weren't willing to whip out their credit cards, I suspect that mailings to expired members wouldn't be as profitable as it was.. or that promoting other sites inside a pay site area wouldn't have the great ratios they tend to eperience. In order to "adapt" to this change, WMs need to stop with throwing shit at the wall to get a handfull of sales, and start to adjust their marketing strategies and products in order to make more sales from these types of surfers.

Oh.. and about the 10 minute NastyDollars clips.. I only looked at them once a couple months ago because I was wondering what the fuck they were doing as well. Of the ones I looked at, it appeared that they were giving away the first 10 minutes of the movie.. i.e. all the talking, set up, getting undressedm some cock sucking, ass rubbing, and then some fucking.. Basically, 10 minutes of getting the guy really into the movie and then not giving him enough to finish the job really. I'm still not sure it's a good idea, but it's inline what what I've been saying about using the content more intelligently in order to hook the more experienced surfers.

The other point that comes into play here is that while there are the collectors and the quick draw artists (the ones that will join 4 clips) - there is a third type that was kinda touched on but is one that once you have them into a paysite will stay forever. Of course there are very defined types of paysites for them (I know of some where Ive had rebillers since 2000) - that are the specialized niche surfers. Although most of them are going to find the sites through communities or referrals - they can definitely be played with on the longer, quality type content - however Ive rarely seen those paysites with their own hosted galleries - they count on affiliates that get inside content and build a variety of types of sites.
This can apply to a few different niches and one that seems to be popular around the boards but is rarely marketed this way are the solo girl tease sites (even the NN ones) where the point is the guy fantasizes an actual relationship - with these types of sites I could see a longer type clip (and some of the amateurs used to do this ages back) where they would just sit and talk in the clip - very rarely were clothes even removed - and I know Alex remembers these types.

Something I remember a very good friend telling me back when I ran a BBS and gave away free stuff in the days before the internet - get the name out there first - give 10% away free - then charge for the other 90%. Of course it worked well back then, for some reason it still seems to work even today

Tempest, I don't disagree with most of what you post, but you are mixing some things up:

Mailing expired or ex-members is different from contact the public at large. Going back to someone who is in the 1% willing to pay for porn and offering them something new is like shooting fish in a barrel. They aren't "serious" porn surfers - they are the committed few. It would be like using professional golfers and asking why so few people play sub-par rounds.

As for bookmarkers to your site, consider if they are bookmarking you, then they are likely NOT using tubes,torrents, or other fileshare methods to get their porn. They are comfortable with what they get from your site, and value your judgement.

New and fresh is always good. Nobody will ever disagree with that. Surfers can spot new, they have seen all the old stuff already. If you have surfers as above that "trust" you, then you will see more sales. That is normal.

Linkster, you are correct - the customers fall in different categories and have different needs. I sort of feel that much of the relationship style surfers have been lured (and burned) by the dating sites, and some of them have run up some pretty mighty bills on the cam sites. These are the type of people I suspect would join an amateur site long term, showing up for every camshow, checking in on update day to see the latest pics and videos, etc. Long termers that really make that market go. In many ways, they are long past the concept of "porn".

Anyway, back to the start of all of this: I would love to see a 10 minute clip gallery or page with some sort of explaination of what is going on. I am especially interested not in the ratios at the sponsor level but rather the number of plays required to get a sale. 100 plays? 1000 plays? 10,000 plays? It is an interesting question. I can certainly see that if the video entirely avoids the sex part and sticks with the "setup" that it might work.

I post 1.5-2 min videos and the performance CPC and overall is much better. +25% since I started doing that over clips.

WTF is the point in 4 split 10-15 second vids when you can do 1 ONE minute vid?

My friend Kristopher that is currently up in Norway doing offroad fun stuff says we should not give away any samples... Samples are da evils...!

Brad, is that CPC for clicks that made it to the sponsor, or is that overall considering the people coming to your page?

Longer clips may help in some ways to filter the masses, with only more serious buyers going on to the tour, but at what cost is that filter applied?

i am good looking

Looking good yes!

Longer clips are making me more money, and by huge margins. For me that's the bottom line.

warchild, good for you. Enjoy the money.

Fitty.................

Fiddy ones..

This thread turned out to be a very good business thread!!!

I just wish there was some sort of samples that we could see to understand better the concept. At this point, the "good" 10 minutes videos are only an unproven myth.

I think what happens with something like this though, is a sample gets posted and people rave about how good it is...then someone with less experience and maybe doesn't quite understand what they are seeing tries to replicate that and they don't do it quite right. Someone else sees THAT example and does similar...takes the concept and changes it a bit and maybe not quite for the better. Then it sort of cascades to a bunch of people who don't quite know what they are doing but want to at least look like it and what made the original sell is lost and almost negates what made it sell in the first place.

I think that's what happened with the whole "give away free porn" for the masses. It was less to do with trying to one up each other and more to due with the inexperienced trying to match up with the experienced and just not quite getting it right.

I also agree with tranza's post, this is turning out to be a great business thread so far....discussion of ideas without "you suck, fuck you for not believing like I do"

Sykky, at the end of the day, I think all of us want to find methods and theories that help us all sell more porn. I will gladly give away 10 times more bandwidth for double the sales (understanding the cost of bandwidth relative to the value of a sale). We are all pretty much bottom line people.

So far the only sites I have seen with longer form videos seem to be very dependant on third party ads, dating sites, and other non-porn revenue to make things work out. I don't deny this as being a functional business model, provided all the content is used with permission or the rights have been purchased. At this point there are only a very few programs putting content out in clips bigger than about 30 seconds.

So yeah, this is a great thread - we are all here to make money. I am hoping that Warchild or someone can provide a little guidance and understanding as to what is working, because I am sure many, many people are curious.

This goes back to a post I made awhile back about whether porn might become sort of a loss leader...it becomes what gets them to the site rather than what they buy when they get there.

I agree, we could all use a little guidance on these things and of course our own research and testing. Because if someone really had found "new" ways of getting traffic/making sales, I wouldn't expect them to just give those ideas away for free.

I also think, and has been expressed in other threads, that a lot of sponsors might just start opening their own tube sites and the tube sites almost become a sort of mass preview tour.

anybody that wants to submit galleries to me with 10 min clips, will be listed everyday...