The "Re-Bill option is better for the longterm LIE"! - GoFuckYourself.com

pound · 09-07-2007, 08:53 AM

I've been thinking about rebilling vs PPS.

Usually I deal in the webcam industry so it's more a revshare vs PPS and overall a revshare option (with a site with good girls) comes out the winner.

But now I'm doing some adult sites through CCBill and its rebill or PPS. Let's look at the numbers:

For this one site, this month I've done 20 signups - the site owner says that customers are rebilling at 45% but Im seeing after 1 month a rebill percentage of 75%.

So is this how I'd calculate it:

Month 1 -
New Signups: 20
Rebill Customers: 0
Total Payouts: 20 ($10 x 20 = $200)

Month 2 -
New Signups: 20
Rebill Customers (working on 75% and rounding down): 15
Total Payouts: 35 ($10 x 35 = $350)

Month 3 -
New Signups: 20
Rebill Customers: 26
Total Payouts: 46 ($10 x 35 = $460)

Ok. Now let's pretend we STOP getting new signups and we let it rebill at the 75% rebill rate.

Month 4:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 34
Total Payouts ($10 x 34 = $340)

Month 5:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 25
Total Payouts ($10 x 25 = $250)

Month 6:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 18
Total Payouts ($10 x 18 = $180)

Month 7:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 13
Total Payouts ($10 x 13 = $130)

Month 8:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 9
Total Payouts ($10 x 9 = $90)

Month 9:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 6
Total Payouts ($10 x 6 = $60)

Month 10:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 3
Total Payouts ($10 x 3 = $30)

Month 11:
New Signups: 0
Rebill Customers: 1
Total Payouts ($10 x 1 = $10)

Total: $1090 over 11 months for a total of 60 customers.

If you'd taken the PSS option you'd of got $1800 ($30 x 60) over just 3 months.

I know that some customers stay much longer, I hear of people who have rebillers for years until their CC expires which is great. But do you need to rely in that rare breed to bring in the money to make up what you loose of the PSS?

Is my maths wrong (I hope so!)?? Is rebill as a good option all an industry lie?

RawAlex · 09-07-2007, 09:03 AM

Your math is wrong. you have 210 transactions at $10... total of $2100.

1+3+6+9+13+18+25+34+46+35+20=210 * $10 = $2100.

So net not a huge difference, but more money in the recur (if the recur is that high).

One of the things you have to look at in that situation is the PPS payout rate versus the recur payout rate. You have to retain every customer 3 months to break even, retain them 4 to have an advantage. In that situation, the PPS is a better bet (low risk). If the monthly billing was $30 instead of $20 (so net $15 instead of $10) you would only need 2 month retention to get the same money. Then it would be more difficult to choose.

RP Fade · 09-07-2007, 09:08 AM

Why did you assume only $10 per revshare signup? That's 50% revshare apx. on a $19.95/mo membership. Most programs are anywhere between $24.95-$39.95/mo, most pay 60%, most have bonus days paying 70-100% revshare and you're also forgetting other membership options like 2, 3, 6 months, etc.

As far as whether revshare is a good option, we let our affiliates decide. We recently started offering $25pps console free and 90% of our affiliates stayed with revshare..

Regardless, as TGP owners and affiliates ourselves, it's always a good idea to diversify. We still get rebills from programs/sites we stopped promoting over 1 year ago.

RawAlex · 09-07-2007, 02:22 PM

Fade, I have an interesting theory:

PPS is the affiliate betting the site retains poorly.
revshare is the affiliate betting the site retains well.

PPS is the program better thier site retains well.
revshare is the program not being able to afford to do PPS!

(last one is a bit of a joke). There are some programs I love revshare on, others where I know the pay per signup is just a better bottom line for me.

RP Fade · 09-07-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Fade, I have an interesting theory:

PPS is the affiliate betting the site retains poorly.
revshare is the affiliate betting the site retains well.

PPS is the program better thier site retains well.
revshare is the program not being able to afford to do PPS!

(last one is a bit of a joke). There are some programs I love revshare on, others where I know the pay per signup is just a better bottom line for me.

Yeah, we do the same as well with our sponsors. We always look at the site, check out members if we get logins and we actually try both pps and revshare over 1-2 months.

And it's not that hard to do PPS model these days, add rebills, xsales, upsales, cancel discounts, ex-member emails and promotions, its very feasible to cover the $30-$40pps in the longrun, even if you bite the bullet in the beginning.

<plug>I love PPS on www.reelpass.com btw, rebills make us a killing</plug>

Vick! · 09-07-2007, 03:32 PM

I have always promoted PPS in adult dating .. just got a question in mind that what is avg membership length of a adult dating surfer? Avg.

the Shemp · 09-07-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pound

Is my maths wrong (I hope so!)?? Is rebill as a good option all an industry lie?

voodoo math

Dirty D · 09-07-2007, 03:54 PM

What is this rebill thing you are speaking of?

jimthefiend · 09-07-2007, 03:56 PM

Anyone who doesnt hop onto revshare when selling cams is kinda clueless.

Iron Fist · 09-07-2007, 05:16 PM

revshare FTW!

AK · 09-10-2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pound

I've been thinking about rebilling vs PPS.

Usually I deal in the webcam industry so it's more a revshare vs PPS and overall a revshare option (with a site with good girls) comes out the winner.

hit me up - let's try our webcamclub.com
we can start you at 20% (recurring for life).
or if you want to test us out, $50 PPS doesn't sound bad either.

if you have dating traffic, we can pay you $75/PPS as well.

i'll make it easier, if you show me stats from our competitors, we can even talk about prepaying your traffic.

hope to hear from you soon.

Iron Fist · 09-10-2007, 08:41 AM

Prepay FTW!

mattz · 09-10-2007, 08:42 AM

Revshare used to kickass back in the day, not anymore though

Matt 26z · 09-10-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattz

Revshare used to kickass back in the day, not anymore though

Blame the landslide of shitty paysites that have opened up in the past few years. In fact some paysites exist only to cross sale and upsell to other, better paysites.

Revshare still rocks hard if you know which sites to push, and it's really less than 1% of them these days.

fuzebox · 09-10-2007, 09:45 AM

Personally I prefer PPS. I have yet to find a revshare sponsor that will make me as much per member as their PPS payout, and the ones that do, well I would prefer having that money up front rather than waiting 2 years for the rebills to catch up.

I wonder how many affiliates actually took their total earnings and divided it by the amount of total initial sales...

09-07-2007, 08:53 AM	#1
pound Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 116	The "Re-Bill option is better for the longterm LIE"! I've been thinking about rebilling vs PPS. Usually I deal in the webcam industry so it's more a revshare vs PPS and overall a revshare option (with a site with good girls) comes out the winner. But now I'm doing some adult sites through CCBill and its rebill or PPS. Let's look at the numbers: For this one site, this month I've done 20 signups - the site owner says that customers are rebilling at 45% but Im seeing after 1 month a rebill percentage of 75%. So is this how I'd calculate it: Month 1 - New Signups: 20 Rebill Customers: 0 Total Payouts: 20 ($10 x 20 = $200) Month 2 - New Signups: 20 Rebill Customers (working on 75% and rounding down): 15 Total Payouts: 35 ($10 x 35 = $350) Month 3 - New Signups: 20 Rebill Customers: 26 Total Payouts: 46 ($10 x 35 = $460) Ok. Now let's pretend we STOP getting new signups and we let it rebill at the 75% rebill rate. Month 4: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 34 Total Payouts ($10 x 34 = $340) Month 5: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 25 Total Payouts ($10 x 25 = $250) Month 6: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 18 Total Payouts ($10 x 18 = $180) Month 7: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 13 Total Payouts ($10 x 13 = $130) Month 8: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 9 Total Payouts ($10 x 9 = $90) Month 9: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 6 Total Payouts ($10 x 6 = $60) Month 10: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 3 Total Payouts ($10 x 3 = $30) Month 11: New Signups: 0 Rebill Customers: 1 Total Payouts ($10 x 1 = $10) Total: $1090 over 11 months for a total of 60 customers. If you'd taken the PSS option you'd of got $1800 ($30 x 60) over just 3 months. I know that some customers stay much longer, I hear of people who have rebillers for years until their CC expires which is great. But do you need to rely in that rare breed to bring in the money to make up what you loose of the PSS? Is my maths wrong (I hope so!)?? Is rebill as a good option all an industry lie? __________________

09-07-2007, 09:08 AM	#3
RP Fade Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,343	Why did you assume only $10 per revshare signup? That's 50% revshare apx. on a $19.95/mo membership. Most programs are anywhere between $24.95-$39.95/mo, most pay 60%, most have bonus days paying 70-100% revshare and you're also forgetting other membership options like 2, 3, 6 months, etc. As far as whether revshare is a good option, we let our affiliates decide. We recently started offering $25pps console free and 90% of our affiliates stayed with revshare.. Regardless, as TGP owners and affiliates ourselves, it's always a good idea to diversify. We still get rebills from programs/sites we stopped promoting over 1 year ago. __________________ HomemadeCash.com - Homemade & GF sites powered by NScash.com HomemadeVideoPass.com - The only all homemade mega site OurHomemadePorno.com - Real couples fucking on camera Contact ICQ: 400-786-531 Email: fade AT nscash.com

09-07-2007, 03:32 PM	#6
Vick! Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: 20 00'24.00" N, 75 09'00.00 W Posts: 6,882	I have always promoted PPS in adult dating .. just got a question in mind that what is avg membership length of a adult dating surfer? Avg. __________________ Affordable Quality Web Hosting

09-07-2007, 03:54 PM	#8
Dirty D Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Paying Webmasters Millions Since 1999 Posts: 4,044	What is this rebill thing you are speaking of? __________________ Dirty D - ICQ #1326843 - $1 Million Dollars of Bonus Money - 8,000+ FHG! Glory Hole Girlz - Crack Whore Confessions - Tampa Bukkake - Slut Wife Training - Fuck a Fan Electricity Play - Porn Video Drive - Theater Sluts - Skunk Riley - Ukraine Amateurs - Strapon Sessions

09-07-2007, 05:16 PM	#10
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	revshare FTW! __________________ i like waffles

09-07-2007, 09:03 AM	#2
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Your math is wrong. you have 210 transactions at $10... total of $2100. 1+3+6+9+13+18+25+34+46+35+20=210 * $10 = $2100. So net not a huge difference, but more money in the recur (if the recur is that high). One of the things you have to look at in that situation is the PPS payout rate versus the recur payout rate. You have to retain every customer 3 months to break even, retain them 4 to have an advantage. In that situation, the PPS is a better bet (low risk). If the monthly billing was $30 instead of $20 (so net $15 instead of $10) you would only need 2 month retention to get the same money. Then it would be more difficult to choose.

09-07-2007, 02:22 PM	#4
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Fade, I have an interesting theory: PPS is the affiliate betting the site retains poorly. revshare is the affiliate betting the site retains well. PPS is the program better thier site retains well. revshare is the program not being able to afford to do PPS! (last one is a bit of a joke). There are some programs I love revshare on, others where I know the pay per signup is just a better bottom line for me.

09-07-2007, 03:56 PM	#9
jimthefiend So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: icq: 121189 Posts: 18,889	Anyone who doesnt hop onto revshare when selling cams is kinda clueless.

09-10-2007, 08:41 AM	#12
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	Prepay FTW! __________________ i like waffles

09-10-2007, 08:42 AM	#13
mattz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: AZ Posts: 7,697	Revshare used to kickass back in the day, not anymore though

09-10-2007, 09:45 AM	#15
fuzebox making it rain Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 22,105	Personally I prefer PPS. I have yet to find a revshare sponsor that will make me as much per member as their PPS payout, and the ones that do, well I would prefer having that money up front rather than waiting 2 years for the rebills to catch up. I wonder how many affiliates actually took their total earnings and divided it by the amount of total initial sales...