Legal Immigration to the US: Is it fine the way it is or Enough Already?

[Frank W]

I read recently that the US allowed the legal immigration of 1.1 Million people in the recently concluded Fiscal Year. These are LEGAL immigrants not undocumented migrants. Several questions are raised by this figure: can the US sustain this level of migration? what are the costs and benefits of this level of migration? what are the social, cultural, and psychological impact of this migration to the US? Do immigrants really take away American jobs or do they only take lower paid/lower status jobs that Americans would not want any way?

Since 1965, US Immigration policy is based on two core principles: family unification regardless of skill level of the relative being reunited with family already in the US and professional/skilled labor immigration.

[Lev]

Well the whole US is based on immigrants, so let them coming, but I think the US immigration service should monitor who is entering this country

[.:Frog:.]

Sounds like you don't like immigrants, but remind yourself that your family ALSO immigrated to the US at some point in time.
When your grand daddy moved to the US did people already living in the states, bitch about him taking their jobs?

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by Lev
Well the whole US is based on immigrants, so let them coming, but I think the US immigration service should monitor who is entering this country

You obviously have never been to Southern California.

[cherrylula]

Well I live on So Cal and I am tired of getting stuck in line behind people who cannot even speak english and cannot understand the cashier when they are trying to explain to them how to swipe an atm card from their banco to pay for the rest of the balance their food stamps did not cover.

My family immigrated to this country from Europe, but I will say I did not grow up under the conditions I see some of the immigrants living in around here. Its a fucking free for all. My family was NEVER on welfare or took government handouts.

[Honeyslut]

Originally posted by .:Frog:.
Sounds like you don't like immigrants, but remind yourself that your family ALSO immigrated to the US at some point in time.
When your grand daddy moved to the US did people already living in the states, bitch about him taking their jobs?

When my grand DADDY came to America when he was 16, he had to be sponsored and learn a trade of quality for this country to stay. Furthermore, when one of his friend's from Norway came out in the 50's, my grandfather sponsored him and that gentleman acquired a trade to stay .. It's a great concept and it should be brought back.. Screw all this free loading crap...

[Honeyslut]

Originally posted by cherrylula
Well I live on So Cal and I am tired of getting stuck in line behind people who cannot even speak english and cannot understand the cashier when they are trying to explain to them how to swipe an atm card from their banco to pay for the rest of the balance their food stamps did not cover.

My family immigrated to this country from Europe, but I will say I did not grow up under the conditions I see some of the immigrants living in around here. Its a fucking free for all. My family was NEVER on welfare or took government handouts.

I hear ya ! My grandpa became a cement contractor and ran his own biz. He also bought real estate and was a landlord... Furthermore, he was a gunner in WW 2 for American. He was a citizen from the gentle country of Norway !

[Lev]

Well I live on So Cal and I am tired of getting stuck in line behind people who cannot even speak english and cannot understand the cashier when they are trying to explain to them how to swipe an atm card from their banco to pay for the rest of the balance their food stamps did not cover

Yeah I don't respect that, people who come here at least should learn how to speak English.

[Fletch XXX]

I encounter people in stores everyday who have no idea what I am saying and cannot relate any info to me.

This is in FRYS.

A computer store, right up the road, the lady did not know what a "Font Disk" was and she was alphabetizing the fucking software at FRYS!
this was last week.

She couldnt help me, and did not speak English.... yet she was working at Frys where I buy the latest gear.

Only in America. I mean Southern California.

[Frank W]

Originally posted by .:Frog:.
Sounds like you don't like immigrants, but remind yourself that your family ALSO immigrated to the US at some point in time.
When your grand daddy moved to the US did people already living in the states, bitch about him taking their jobs?

Posing a nuanced question about immigrants does not make one anti-immigrant. Anti-immigration probably means no immigration at all. I disagree since 80% of my employees are immigrants. You're right my grandparents immigrated from Sicily. But there's also a logical problem with your assumption that immigrant descendants should automatically support more immigration. Shouldn't the question be focused on what is good for the USA and what a sustainable level should be?

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by Honeyslut



When my grand DADDY came to America when he was 16, he had to be sponsored and learn a trade of quality for this country to stay. Furthermore, when one of his friend's from Norway came out in the 50's, my grandfather sponsored him and that gentleman acquired a trade to stay .. It's a great concept and it should be brought back.. Screw all this free loading crap...

I agree. My grandfather moved here in 1959 with a wife and two kids under 4 years old. My grandmother's sister had married an American soldier after the war, and they lent them 2 grand (a huge amount back then) to move to the US and sponsored them. No welfare, no food stamps. My Grandfather worked in shipyards to get by and went on to pursue a trade.

The immigrants around here get section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare, have all the kids they want it seems, and have more steaks in their carts than I do when in line at the store. They drive fucking explorers I swear, and their teenage sons all sell crack.

This is a sore subject with me right now.

[Frank W]

Great posts so far, guys.

The focus really is in what immigration process America creates. Does it create an environment where assimilation and the ability to work towards building a greater country? or does it allow only for ethnic enclaves who do not bother to learn English and not interact with the larger community?

Wasn't the promise of immigration the incorporation of new people and cultures

[theking]

Originally posted by Frank W
I read recently that the US allowed the legal immigration of 1.1 Million people in the recently concluded Fiscal Year. These are LEGAL immigrants not undocumented migrants. Several questions are raised by this figure: can the US sustain this level of migration? what are the costs and benefits of this level of migration? what are the social, cultural, and psychological impact of this migration to the US? Do immigrants really take away American jobs or do they only take lower paid/lower status jobs that Americans would not want any way?

Since 1965, US Immigration policy is based on two core principles: family unification regardless of skill level of the relative being reunited with family already in the US and professional/skilled labor immigration.

A study was done a few years ago based upon variants fed into a computer model. The model determined that the United States could sustain fifty million people for an indefinite period of time. The accuracy of the study was not considered to be 100%.
Just as a cattle rancher knows how many acres of land and water it takes to support x number of cows with out over grazing, over watering, and killing the soils ability to sustain his cattle, the same theory applies to the number of people the USA can support for an indefinite period of time. Immigration should be stopped permanently, and will have to be at some point, or the USA will just become another overpopulated third world nation.

[SykkBoy]

Some of you are confusing legal immigration with illegal immigration.

Before this business I worked in the restaurant business and if you know the restaurant business in Nevada, a lot of hispanics...well, I helped a lot of them gain their citizenship and I'll tell you, most of these people know more about this country than the redneck fuckfaces who tend to live here...amazing how many immigrants know more about our congressional makeup than people who {i]vote[/i} in this country....

After hearing of the horror stories of these guys who were working the cabbage fields and such....believe me, the "jobs" these guys were taking were jobs that the average "American" wouldn't work...how many of you would pick cabbage for $25-30 per day? Hmmm, I wonder how much cabbage would cost me in the store if some labor backed "real American" had to pick the cabbage.....

actually, I wish we could swap in a few hard working immigrants who wanted to better themselves and swap out some lazy welfare-sucking pieces of shit white trash redneck "real" Americans....

[Frank W]

Good post King. The statistical model showed how much the US can PHYSICALLY sustain additional population. Does it speak to how the US can also POLITICALLY and culturally sustain additional immigration? There ARE certain social costs when people live in enclaves and don't bother to learn English. Or is this overly reductionistic and we should just focus on economic costs?

Originally posted by theking


A study was done a few years ago based upon variants fed into a computer model. The model determined that the United States could sustain fifty million people for an indefinite period of time. The accuracy of the study was not considered to be 100%.
Just as a cattle rancher knows how many acres of land and water it takes to support x number of cows with out over grazing, over watering, and killing the soils ability to sustain his cattle, the same theory applies to the number of people the USA can support for an indefinite period of time. Immigration should be stopped permanently, and will have to be at some point, or the USA will just become another overpopulated third world nation.

[pr0]

Originally posted by .:Frog:.
Sounds like you don't like immigrants, but remind yourself that your family ALSO immigrated to the US at some point in time.
When your grand daddy moved to the US did people already living in the states, bitch about him taking their jobs?

Need i remind you...people in the 1800's/1900's came here to escape persecution, to gain relegious freedom, & to work hard to become wealthy. Some people come here with the distinct purpose of defrauding our government, going on welfare, having free healthcare, having a free place to live while they drop 15 kids.

The fact is for every one good immigrant that comes over from india looking to work his ass off in the computer store, 10 mexican women come accross the border to drop kids & obtain a free education for their children, as well as free medical care. (Free medical care that we don't even get). Think the hospital puts leans on a illegal immigrants house if they don't pay their 200k medical bill?

Fucking don't get me started......

[Frank W]

The thread is focused on LEGAL immigration.

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
Some of you are confusing legal immigration with illegal immigration.

Before this business I worked in the restaurant business and if you know the restaurant business in Nevada, a lot of hispanics...well, I helped a lot of them gain their citizenship and I'll tell you, most of these people know more about this country than the redneck fuckfaces who tend to live here...amazing how many immigrants know more about our congressional makeup than people who {i]vote[/i} in this country....

After hearing of the horror stories of these guys who were working the cabbage fields and such....believe me, the "jobs" these guys were taking were jobs that the average "American" wouldn't work...how many of you would pick cabbage for $25-30 per day? Hmmm, I wonder how much cabbage would cost me in the store if some labor backed "real American" had to pick the cabbage.....

actually, I wish we could swap in a few hard working immigrants who wanted to better themselves and swap out some lazy welfare-sucking pieces of shit white trash redneck "real" Americans....

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Frank W
The thread is focused on LEGAL immigration.

I realize that, but too many are complaining about the language barrier, most of which tends to be more of a problem amongst the illegals.....

[cherrylula]

Yeah and its American companies that fuck shit up even more by hiring illegal immigrants because they want to pay them less than minimum wage under the table. Then their women get on welfare and pop out a bunch of kids on our tab.

I do feel bad for those who live and suffer in other countries, but the immigration in this country is out of control.

[KingK7]

You just need to be more selective who you let into the country.
A recent Center for Immigration Studies report found that more than a third of Muslim terrorists in the United States since 1993 had been here for years as naturalized citizens or legal permanent residents.

I am from Norway, the richest country in the world, my english is very good, and I am educated. Also I am rather well off moneywise. Still, I'd not be permitted to live and work in the US, unless I married a US citizen.

[Frank W]

Thats not true. You can get in the US in ways other than family unification [ie., getting married to a US citizen].

You can get an H-1 visa if you are well skilled and have a sponsoring employer.

You can study in the US for additional post-grad training [i believe its the C-1 visa] then convert to an H-1

You can open a branch of your business in the US [the L visa...better than the investor immigrant cuz branch does not have to be worth $1M] or

You can be an investor immigrant [minimum is $1 M dollars]

Plus there are other legal ways to get in. What they all have in common is 1) selection 2) you MUST bring in some value to the US.

Originally posted by KingK7

I am from Norway, the richest country in the world, my english is very good, and I am educated. Also I am rather well off moneywise. Still, I'd not be permitted to live and work in the US, unless I married a US citizen.

[FlyingIguana]

i want to immigrate damn it! for some reason my field isn't classed as a professional, yet accountants are? bullshit

[ChrisH]

Our immigration system is broken. It needs to be completely revamped. That said when you have a leaky pipe the first thing you do is shut off the water. I have no problem with immigration, obviously my family immigrated to the US. But, at this point the system needs to be fixed, and immigrates need to be tracked.

[KingK7]

Hehe, I guess it's hard to prove you are "skilled as a pornographer".

That L-visa sounds interesting though, I might check into that.
Any idea how long I could stay on that? Or if I could later become a naturalized citizen with that?

[Sly_RJ]

What about all the people who come on a work visa and then jump it? They come legally, but then stay illegally. We need to monitor that better, could probably help a good deal.

[SykkBoy]

I agree the system needs to be fixed...I know, personally, too many good, hardworking individuals who are having a tough time getting "official" yet so many slip under the radar who aren't as skilled or qualified...it sucks when the qualified have a tougher time getting her than those who are less qualified..

One of the problems is that the immigration department is understaffed. Our government spends money to create a new department and endless bullshit, yet, something important like the INS is understaffed and underbudgeted (I never thought I'd see the day when a government office was actually understaffed/underbudgeted). So, this problem isn't caused by bloat, but rather by dehydration.....

[Frank W]

Originally posted by KingK7
Hehe, I guess it's hard to prove you are "skilled as a pornographer".

That L-visa sounds interesting though, I might check into that.
Any idea how long I could stay on that? Or if I could later become a naturalized citizen with that?

It is an immigrant visa. You can get a green card based on that status. Check http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/ for requirements

[Lev]

As long as the immigrants come here and don't sit on welfare, sell drugs, but rather work, go to school and work their way up to the american dream, then this is good for the economy and those immigrants should be welcomed, but then nobody would know how a person would end up after he/she enters this country

[ADIDAS]

Originally posted by cherrylula
Well I live on So Cal and I am tired of getting stuck in line behind people who cannot even speak english and cannot understand the cashier when they are trying to explain to them how to swipe an atm card from their banco to pay for the rest of the balance their food stamps did not cover.

My family immigrated to this country from Europe, but I will say I did not grow up under the conditions I see some of the immigrants living in around here. Its a fucking free for all. My family was NEVER on welfare or took government handouts.

Hey which part of SoCal?

Cause for some strange reason that happens to me too!

;)

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by KingK7
Hehe, I guess it's hard to prove you are "skilled as a pornographer".

That L-visa sounds interesting though, I might check into that.
Any idea how long I could stay on that? Or if I could later become a naturalized citizen with that?

try financial analyst

[.:Frog:.]

My orginal post was just to point out that America was built up by immigrants.
I never said to let in new un-skilled immigrants who don't intend to work, or fucking mexicans who want to raise 12 children on government welfare.

[JConway]

I wouldn't necessarily increase "skill" requirements, but I would increase language/literacy requirements. I would also require that we provide assylum for only those truely in need, although this would get very sticky and be nearly impossible to prove.

[JConway]

I'm sorry. I didn't really understand the post at first. I am all for Legal Immigration, but certainly feel as though Illegal immigration is a very serious problem that needs to be rectified within the next ten years or it will have very serious social and economic ramifications.