Who should i talk to regarding offshoring?

[squizzel]

Im thinking about moving offshore perm to panama. Im not a US citizen. I will probably visit panama later this year to check it out. If i want to move there how do i go about incorporating there and can i still do banking in my own country?

Basically, who do i contact who has lots of knowledge about this crap. Tax lawyer, accountant, or what?

[WiredGuy]

Your accountant should be able to tell you which setup is most ideal from a tax perspective and then who to see to legally set it up (attorney). So start with accountant and you'll likely get referred to a lawyer to assist in the operation.
WG

[squizzel]

thanks..

[Sosa]

make sure you know who you are dealing with, and make sure they have some references. don't fuck yourself...

[squizzel]

well if i incorporate in panama is it ok to keep all my money and banking outside panama in an international bank? That way i could save from being fucked over?

[Humpy Leftnut]

What's your reason for wanting to go offshore?

[squizzel]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

What's your reason for wanting to go offshore?

lifestyle, legal tax dodge.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by squizzel

Im thinking about moving offshore perm to panama. Im not a US citizen. I will probably visit panama later this year to check it out. If i want to move there how do i go about incorporating there and can i still do banking in my own country?

Basically, who do i contact who has lots of knowledge about this crap. Tax lawyer, accountant, or what?

Dunno which country your are in squirrel - that can make a difference.

But.. if you are moving offshore as a resident - that is the simplest and clean-cut scenario possible.

If eg.. you are in Canada or most Euro countries - just pay all taxation up to date and sign-off on revenue docs to notify them you are no longer going to be a resident. Then move to Pamama or wherever.

If you want to live in Panama - check it out first - not with the eyes of a tourist. It has plenty to offer and probably a better lifestyle than the majority of industrialized countries. But - the same can be said for the Caribbean area or other countries in Latin America - eg Costa Rica. There are many communities developing with expats and it may be a clue to have a look at these.

Contrary to some recent posts, Panama actually has a good banking system and transacts a fair portion of world trade. There are around 140 banks and included in that figure are about 40+ international banks.

There is no restriction on where you bank - this can be anywhere, but not normal to be the US or your "home country". If you bank in your home country while you are resident elsewhere - there will be taxation due on any interest recieved and this can be problematic - so better to bank outside your home country.

Although you may elect to live in Panama, there is no reason why you should have a Panama corp in particular - or bank in Panama. You can have a corp anywhere there is no taxation applicable. (Tho, Panama corps are actually ideal for any genuine offshore resident).

As far as preparing for a move - you could buy a corp and then arrange banking. (But don't use the corp or bank until you are ready to move.)

If you decide on Panama check out formal residency - there are various programs for residency. (You still maintain your "home country" citizenship, but can end up with an extra passport after a few years.)

For clean-cut instances you are talking about, moving/setting up is an easy process and does not involved hours with lawyers for taxation or other aspects - there are no taxes, so nothing to discuss - you will prob be surprised at the "freedom"

[GreyWolf]

Will add a bit more

It may not be a good idea to buy a home initially - it's better to have a look around for a year and just rent during that time. There are also occasions where real estate can be priced on a two-tier system - one of residents - another for "tourists". You will not be a tourist - you are a resident

Not that this is a problem either way, but you are free to do as you wish with your corp and, unless you think of a reason otherwise, there is no need to hide behind nominee directors.

Unfortunately there has been a few sad tales lately - that is certainly not the norm - and these mainly appear to have come from folks who were trying to be smartasses and who still had obligations to laws in their home countries. When you move OS from most high-taxation regime countries (forgetting the US for a moment) as a resident, there is nothing to hide. Banking at an offshore bank is the same as walking down the street to your local bank. The only difference is more confidentiality (tho that rarely matters to residents) - and interest is normally paid tax free.

There are usually some taxes applicable, but these are not normally personal or corporation taxes, but local sales taxes in restaurants etc. If you choose a good jurisdiction for your corp - there are no accounts required (saves a hell of a lot of time!!) and no annual filings. You will not normally get any taxation forms. (This is the situation with a Panama corp, but other jurisdictions have the same benefits).

[Humpy Leftnut]

Great posts Greywolf, where else is good if you're going to move?

I think a lot of US webmasters are going to want out pretty soon, if they're not already thinking of it already. Are the Canadian taxes really that bad or what? Seems like we have good hosting here, less backwards laws, no huge lobbyists, and obviously solid banking... But higher taxes? How much would you save going somewhere south?

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

Great posts Greywolf, where else is good if you're going to move?

I think a lot of US webmasters are going to want out pretty soon, if they're not already thinking of it already. Are the Canadian taxes really that bad or what? Seems like we have good hosting here, less backwards laws, no huge lobbyists, and obviously solid banking... But higher taxes? How much would you save going somewhere south?

As far as where else to move to - this should really be the first consideration (after isolating the various non-tax areas). It's really a personal thing and probably based on what interests an emigrant may have.

Most Caribbean and Latin American areas will offer plenty "erotic life" - stuff like beaches etc. Personally, I kinda like the Caribbean islands and had a good time there. Each island is geographically different and the people are very friendly (keep Jamaica out for the moment - it's not an "offshore" and also Caymen - that can hardly be called an offshore any longer.)

In Central America there are two countries which could be candidates - Panama and Costa Rica. Panama has more slight benefits from a biz angle. Costa Rica is not a "true offshore" country, but there are no taxes on foreign earnings (eg net-related income) and the lifestyle is good in both these countries. Both Panama and Costa Rica have the roughly same temperatures and these are all year round (in both the rainy and dry seasons). Costa Rica has more "eco" activity and is prob one of the richest countries in the world for this. Both Panama and Costa Rica have plenty beaches.

There could be a case made (in squizzel's situation) for living in Costa Rica for a lifestyle angle and having a corp in Panama - basically the "playground" is Costa Rica and the biz element comes from Panama. (In practice, there would not normally be a need to visit Panama for any biz - tho it's only a short flying time away).

We still have biz based on the Caribbean islands, but also in central America. Two of the reasons for moving from the islands was because of hurricane activity and also get access to the benefits of a larger land base. Hurricanes are part of island life and no biggie (they can be a "fun experience" for a while, but that wears off! *s*) There are no hurricanes in either Panama or Costa Rica.

Unfortunately US webmasters have a problem by moving to exotic locations - the main one being the obligation to file taxes annually to the US while they are resident elsewhere. But - there is some compensation in that the IRS will give an $80K foreign resident allowance. For most other webmasters, this is not a problem - there is no requirement to file taxes back to their home country when they are resident elsewhere.

You mentioned Canadian webmasters - there are a fair number of Canadian citizens resident on both the Caribbean islands and in Central America - it must be the warmer climates attracting em - as well as other benefits

Suppose the answer to "how much do folks save" is - whatever they pay in taxes - plus the time spent on accounting for these taxes. There are also not usually any need for "clever schemes" to reduced taxation - little point if there is no corp or personal taxation

On laws - my guide is "Observe the laws of the country where you are a resident". In most of the regions mentioned, these laws are fairly liberal and easy to comply with - nobody is going to create a fuss over trivia. There are some laws which are fairly strict and these are usually in the area of "rights of individuals" and "privacy of doing business". Example... if a bank or lawyer gave information about a client to a third party - this can cause them serious damage - and possibly a jail term. But generally the laws are fewer and far less chance of contravening them. At the same time - tho only my worth - would not do anything elsewhere that I would not do back in my home country. In a way, you are a guest in whatever location - and it's just a matter of respecting their laws.

Just thinking of legal implications on 2257... If a webmaster is not a US citizen and does not host or operate a biz in US territory and that webmaster is resident in eg the Caribbean or Centro America - there is no requirement to comply with 2257 and the judical system in these countries will not accept any challenges.

If a webmaster is a US citizen, tho he/she may not have hosting or any biz in the US, but is resident in eg Panama - there would still be a requirement to comply with US law. This is one weird scenario Example - if my "home country" created 2257 - there would be no obligation to comply with that if I was resident elsewhere. Seems it's the exact opposite for US citzens and an exception to almost the rest of the world.

Back to the lifestyle element - this is really the main issue in a choice of location. It probably is a shock not to account for taxes and not pay them - but that wears off in a few years and lifestyle becomes more important - we only live once

[Humpy Leftnut]

Very good post! Glad I checked back. Thanks for the info. So happy to be not be American. But also the warm weather seems like a nice choice too, and taxes!

[Humpy Leftnut]

PS: What is the city of choice in both those countries?

[brand0n]

considering panama my damn self

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

PS: What is the city of choice in both those countries?

For a city - that's got to be Pamama City, tho there are around three "cities" to choose from. Costa Rica only has the capital, San Jose, but the rest of the country is more appealing than San Jose

Just my preference, but try to avoid cities - it's much nicer outside of them.

[Humpy Leftnut]

fast internet isn't negotiable is all..

[tony286]

To me as a usa webmaster, I would rather go to canada its not as exotic as other places,its not cheap but the government is stable.Also if the laws here forced me to move I would become a citizen whereever I decided to go.

[GreyWolf]

Originally Posted by Humpy Leftnut

fast internet isn't negotiable is all..

Hi HL! Not sure what you mean

Panama is the main landing point for several fiber optic cabling systems to eg Miami via MAYA 1, Global Crossing PAC network linking Mexico and California and South America, Arcos 1 links to the Caribbean Centro America and the Pan American line connecting USA, Ecuador, Peru and other South American countries - there are more, but can't remember em

Most of the usual data transmission technologies are available - ADSL, cable modem, ISDN, wireless, frame relay, Ethernet and ATM with support for high speeds and broadband services. These are available from a range of suppliers including Cable & Wireless (hate em!!), Tele Data, Telco Virtual, GbmNet, Sky on Line. Union Fenosa, ACP, Etesa et al.

There are also a number (and this seems to be growing) of data centers and some of these are based in the "techo park" at Fort Clayton. There may be areas of Panama still not covered - like in "rainforest areas", but generally the country is covered for net access. It's normal in remote areas to use satellite comms.

[Peace]

Very good subject guys