ChrisH

Since you don't want to post in that other thread. I do understand why. Would you like to address my conclusion in this thread?

I really do think it is important that you clear this up. Especially if you want people to hold you in high regard. Which is always important in any business.

Here's my last post on that 8 page thread.
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Well I read the infamous deleted thread, well at least I read Rory's post and a few others.

From what I gathered it was a $5000.00 special ordered content shoot. Something with Kareoke singers and blowjob movies. So I can understand the $2000.00 up front. Who know's if this guy's going to come back, or change his mind, etc.... However, from what I know Aaron came back to Rory "with no content done" and said he needed the other $3000.00 to complete the shoot. Now call me crazy, but that just don't fly with me! Actually, that's bullshit!! I gave you two grand to start, now you want the balance and you didn't start? How would any of us feel if someone did that to you?

Moreover, I understand that it was at that point that the deal fell apart, for one reason or another. Eitherway at that point one party "Aaron" didn't produce on their end.

All the other bullshit is just distractions from what actually happened.

Now I only know of Aaron from these boards. But until today I had a much higher opinion of him. At this point I think he is totally wrong, and wouldn't by anything from him.


Aaron,
If I am wrong please by all means prove me wrong. If not your fucking this guy over man!

Chris

TDF

HEY ARNOLDDDDDDDDDDDD...the kids love that show..

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ronin

again.

AaronM, AaronM, AaronM

Plat

FOOTBALL HEAD!

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Im fuckin retired

Shooter

AaronM makes the world go round

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...dont talka bout my brotha!! Reperations for all minorities...including gays!!

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letshunt

Having dealt with home contractors over the last several years I have learned two very important facts.

1. don't ever give anyone any money up front, invariably they find more profitable projects and you are put at the bottom of thei list.

2. Pay one third one the first raw photos are delivered and I can verify some of the work is being done.

3. Pay one third when you get some semblance of what the final project will look like.

5. Pay the remainder of the balance upon completion of the project...no sooner...most photographers balk at this, but when I explain my reasons, we generally work out a deal.

I got sick of con men and lame promises and have no intention of forking hard earned money until I begin to see results....it is system that has worked quite well and the work gets done promply, without any complaints by either side...they all got paid as agreed and I retained a certain level of trust and confidence my work is done in a timely matter. If the photographer doesn't like the arrangement, no hard feelings, there are lots of pic men that will.

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ADIDAS

Actually, from what I understand, the $2000 was the first deposit, as he didnt have all the $5000 to start, and AaronM as many content providers, myself included, require balance before shoots are done, and the other $3000 was due Aug. 15th. Which wasnt paid, and henceforth the shoot wasnt done, but if the amount had been paid, would have been done by Sept 15th.

Upfront payment for exclusive content is pretty standard for most content providers....on that part I dont think AaronM was fucking him.

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ChrisH

Good point. But if the upfront money was two grand. Then why did he come back for the balance with nothing to show? Just doesn't make any sense to me.

If I pay a contractor to add a new room to my house, I wouldn't give them the balance if they didn't start any work. That would be idiotic. Wouldn't it??

Also, I didn't get any notion that Rory didn't have the money. Only that Aaron couldn't come up with his, to pay back the deposit. Unless you read something I didn't. If so please show me the link. I'd really like to see it!!

Otherwise He IS fucking this guy!

ADIDAS

Yes, I did read it, on one of the Ronin started threads, where AaronM said that he was paid $2000 on July 15th, the balance of $3000 was to be paid on Aug 15th which wasnt, and he had to cancel shoots for non-payment, and the content was to be delivered on Sept 15.

Can't find the thread, but if I do I will post it.

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ChrisH

I read that the two was upfront money to start the project, then the rest was asked for with nothing done.

I'd like to know the real answer too. I have truely seen no explination from Aaron. Only a bunch of distraction posts.

Rory

Sorry just had to interven here fellas....... you are arguing dates and what not... is that really relevant. I think the issue here is that no shoots were done and the deposit money is gone and there is no money to replace that? Adidas, does it matter if I owed him $20,000 on whatever date. Bottom line is I have 0 shoots, and 0 deposit back and aaron M has no way to pay me back. I mean whatever dates he wants to say and whatever circumsatnces lead to the 'termination' of the shoot , and he damn well knows that its because he asked me for $3k when he had already blown my $2k, that is not in question. Aaron admits that he terminated the shoot (in 2 different versions of the same phone call I may add) several weeks ago. If the deal fell through on August 15th (by both parties admission) why do you feel that I was obligated to pay the $3k on sep 15th (or whatever date you would like to add in here). I mean fuck how hard is that to understand man? The deal had fell through..... no shoots were being done (once again this fact is not in dispute by either party) since 'several weeks' ago , if you think that I still in some way owe him money for shoots that arent even happening then please post your friggin url so I remember not to order any content from you.

Rory

Backov

Actually, Rory, I'd say the dates tip things in your favor..

On Day X, you give him $2k as a deposit to get things rolling, agreeing to pay the balance on day Y...

Before day Y rolls around, he calls you and says "Sorry, blew the cash, I need money before I can start the shoot"..

Sounds pretty straightforward to me.. Little highschool biz shit. You're totally in the right here, IMO. I wouldn't have given him anything either.

Cheers,
Backov

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Rory

Chris , listen to the phone conversation again. He admits that the 2 was upfront cash and the 3 was asked for in a phone call 'several weeks' ago, he flat out admits that the $3k was asked for in a phone call which he also admits to saying that he had no shoots done yet. Listen to it again man, its pretty funny, he says clear as day to my question :

R:"...you asked for the three thousand dollars correct.........
A: "Yes cause it was owed to me according to our verbal agreement".......
R:"absolutly"...........
R:"Did I ask you if you had any shoots done?".......
A:"Yes you did"........
R:"What was your reply?"........
A:"No I did not."........

If anyone wants to dispuste that then .. its on tape and posted on the internet

Rory

ronin

always happy to help.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...threadid=75386

ADIDAS

It wasnt a deposit to get things rolling, but one of 2 payments to get content started AFTER payment was made.

I never said you were obligated, I merely state what was started previously as to the verbal agreement and the issue of why content hadnt been shot, from a point of view of a producer myself, which I require full amount before I shoot content.

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BrettJ

stop pissing on the boards and go get a fuck'n lawyer if you think you have a case - but from what has been said - it doesn't sound like you have a case -

*If the contract said the you were going to PREPAY him 5k (by a date) so that he could set up and shoot 10 sets.

*AND he had until the 15th of september to either return you your money - or turn over the content -

*AND you only gave him 2k.

what's your problem? - it's not the 15th of the month yet - and by your own admission you are in breach of the agreement.

You could even take him the 3grand and probably still be okay, under the agreement. but he still wouldn't be in breach of the contact until sept 15 - and which point he would have to return the full 5k or turn over the content and the license.

ADIDAS

Good god, I think this is the most intelligent post ont his subject so far!!!!

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Rory

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Backov
Actually, Rory, I'd say the dates tip things in your favor..

On Day X, you give him $2k as a deposit to get things rolling, agreeing to pay the balance on day Y...

Before day Y rolls around, he calls you and says "Sorry, blew the cash, I need money before I can start the shoot"..

Sounds pretty straightforward to me.. Little highschool biz shit. You're totally in the right here, IMO. I wouldn't have given him anything either.

Cheers,
Backov
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rory
Sorry just had to interven here fellas....... you are arguing dates and what not... is that really relevant. I think the issue here is that no shoots were done and the deposit money is gone and there is no money to replace that? Adidas, does it matter if I owed him $20,000 on whatever date. Bottom line is I have 0 shoots, and 0 deposit back and aaron M has no way to pay me back. I mean whatever dates he wants to say and whatever circumsatnces lead to the 'termination' of the shoot , and he damn well knows that its because he asked me for $3k when he had already blown my $2k, that is not in question. Aaron admits that he terminated the shoot (in 2 different versions of the same phone call I may add) several weeks ago. If the deal fell through on August 15th (by both parties admission) why do you feel that I was obligated to pay the $3k on sep 15th (or whatever date you would like to add in here). I mean fuck how hard is that to understand man? The deal had fell through..... no shoots were being done (once again this fact is not in dispute by either party) since 'several weeks' ago , if you think that I still in some way owe him money for shoots that arent even happening then please post your friggin url so I remember not to order any content from you.

Rory
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I will say 1 thing and I can guarentee you will never get a content order from me if this is how you really feel. Why would I pay him a deposit 1 month in advance if he was to do nothing? Think about this here for a second man, If there was no 'benefit' to me giving him a deposit 1 month in advance before shooting ever started why wouldnt I have just given him the $5000 on the 15th of Aug? If you are the type of person that thinks its ok to charge a deposit on a shoot basis that you will require 100% before you start shooting then step in the line of people I would love to see go out of business.

Still you nor anyone else seems to come up with a logical reason in regards to why if aaron terminated the shoot (as he admitted on tape) 'several weeks' ago, why am I obligated to

#1 Pay him more money for a shoot that has already been terminated.
#2 Sound like a hard ass becuase I expect my deposit back within a few weeks or at least a payment schedule to be attempted if he couldnt afford to pay me.

Can you give a logical explanation for that???

ADIDAS

OK now you are taking what I said WAY out of context...I said that from what had been posted, that there were two payments to be made before production started.

I require payment upfront, especially with newer clients, and make no exceptions. I work great deals for people, but still require 100% upfront.

Now if you two made an agreement for you to pay him the fee in payments, then there would have been a balance due before the shoots began. I have worked this way with people before, and I have(one time) taken half the money upfront and the rest after the shoot only to be burned on the deal(hence the reaosn for requiring upfront).

And trust me my business is not going out of..........

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AaronM

Wrong. Please bookmark this reply and post it where needed since I will only say this one time. These are the facts, pure and simple. I will leave out the minor details such as canceled shoots and Rory's past shady business practices that he personally informed me of and focus one the primary details. Ask all the questions that you want when you are done reading this but keep in mind that I will not be replying because everything should be pretty well covered in here.

The $5000 had to be broken up into 2 payments because of Rory's financial situation. I agreed to take $2500 on about the 15th of July and another $2500 on the 15th of August. At this point I would have received payment in full and i would hand over 10 completed sets on September 15th.

On about July 21st Rory showed up with a check for $2000, not the $2500 we had agreed upon. Rory said he would pay me $3000 on August 15th instead of $2500.

On August 18th I left a message for Rory to call me. He called 2 or 3 days later and told me that he could not afford the additional $3000 and that he did not intend to pay it until September 15th when he picked up the content. At this point I told Rory to come get his shit and his money. He asked if I would consider shooting 4 sets instead of 10 so we could just call it even. I told him I would think about it and call him back.

The next day Rory called and asked how I wanted to handle it. I again told him to come get his shit and his money. Rory did not show up. I went to Seattle for a couple of days. While there Rory called and said that he would come by on Monday. Monday came and went with no word from Rory. Same with Tuesday with the exception of me directing a lot of funds from my accounts for various projects. On Wednesday I was headed to a photo shoot with a model in the car. Rory calls and tries to start an argument. I hung up on him and forwarded my phone to TSB.

Rory then decided to take it to the board.

Here are the specs of the shoot:

The work included 10 different models with 1 photo shoot, 2 karaoke songs on video, and a 10 minute BJ video each.

I gave Rory a price of $5000 for a 10 video package. This price was done only because Rory was broke, had been a good customer in the past, and promised to kick me a lot of business at my standard rates once he was back on his feet. The normal price for this type of package would be at least $10,000 for me to produce it. I took a gamble on him and cut him the deal.

It is not my fault that Rory backed out of the payment arrangements which caused me to pull the plug on the shoots. Rory has offered to settle for $1250.00 and he will get his money on September 15th because that is the original date of the culmination of our verbal contract.

As ADIDAS has stated, it is common practice for a content provider to receive 100% payment upfront for exclusive work. This is how Rory and his partners paid me in the past, this is how ALL of my other clients pay me now, and this is what Rory agreed to for this project as well. If I choose to start the work before receiving the full amount then that is a risk that I take. I have been known to do this for some customers as was the case here. I then hold on to the content until the payments have been satisfied.

If you do not like the way that I do business then that is fine by me. There are plenty of serious clients in the world who have a clue about this business and they are happy to deal with me.

Evil1

Nice soap opera, my turn..

2 things dont add up, if Rory knew Aaron wasnt gonna start till Aaron had all the cash, why bother with the 2k, thats just fucking stupid, I dont believe it.... anyone with an iq higher then a lawn gnome would wait and do the 5k..

And if Aaron had the 2k, why is he calling off shoots, 4 of them were already paid for?

But to call off shoots, he had to set them up, thus, he wasted time, deserves his fees.

But if Aarons calling off shoots, when 4 of them were covered by the deposit, Aarons loss, should have done the 4, kept the 2k, and handed the karioke blowjobs over.

But I bet this thread gets deleted too so what the fuck am I even bothering for

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booker

Here's what I got from the aaron2 recording..

Wow, what a mess.

R paid A $2000 of $5000 that he was going to pay for a lot of content, that's for certain. There is no explicit mention of this $2000 being a deposit where it would not be returned either in full or in part if the contract is terminated, but this may have been agreed on.

A reads the contract.. $5000 was supposed to be paid in full by 8/15, and the content was to be delivered by 9/15.

A spent that $2000 while waiting for the additional $3000 which R didn't pay because A had spent the money on other things rather than start shooting.

Well, there's no reason why A can't spend the money, however, it would be wise business practice to ensure that he has $2000 on reserve in case of contract termination, and it would have been a "good faith" move to have started shooting with the $2000 already paid, in anticipation of the $3000 forthcomming.

Now, something happened that terminated the contract. R decided he didn't want to pay any more money because A hadn't started shooting with the $2000 he already had and spent, A wanted R to pick up the equipment and the money, R never did, A spent the money on something else and apparently it is gone, and it is unclear if A has an additional $2000 on hand to return.

So, what should be done?

If you ask me, I think Aaron needs to pay. He needs to return the $2000 because no content was delivered and the contract was terminated, that is if the $2000 wasn't explicitly a non-refundable deposit. If the written contract includes a $750 termination fee, then Aaron needs to pay $1250. If the written contract explicitly includes that the initial $2000 of $5000 was a non-refundable deposit, then it has to be determined who exactly terminated the contract and why. If Rory terminated it, then I would say that he forfeits a large portion if not all of the deposit, if that is what it was. If Aaron terminated it, then he needs to refund Rory a large portion of the deposit for breaking the contract.

*whew* And I thought it was really funny when Rory closed with "..and go fuck yourself."

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ChrisH

Buy content from AaronM :D

Evil1

Ya so right after I hit send i get the rest of the story... Ignore that 1st one.

Lemme try this again,

"Nice soap opera, my turn.."

If Aaron knew the deal was off and had the money and knew Rory was coming at some point for $1250 it should have been set aside for when he got there, sending his $1250 off to other projects is something I wouldnt have done knowing the guy is gonna be at my doorstep.

But what can ya do now other then wait, I somehow doubt he's gonna try to keep the money and fuck his reputation up.

If I was the judge, Rory would get $1350 on the 15th.. The Second that "contract" died, so did the delivery date. 100 extra as intrest on what is now basically a "loan"

Just a deal that went to shit and got blown out of proportion. Altho good for entertainment.

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ChrisH

AaronM,
If those are in fact the terms then it seems like I owe you an apology. Glad you made your case!!

I am now going to spend some money at your site ;)

Chris