Will Dubbya attack Iraq on September 11th?

[MrPopup]

SO...Dubbya seeks both a meeting with US Congress to discuss some silly military action AND seeks to address people on the anniversary of the attack...

How many people feel he's going to use September 11th as a launch date for this WAR TO ATTEMPT TO RAISE HIS SAGGING POPULARITY?

[Mr.Fiction]

Everyone in this administration is saying something different about Iraq every day. Who knows what Bush might do? He doesn't even seem to know himself right now.

[Theo]

If he attacks iraq his popularity will drop...if there's any popularity left.

[BabeHunter]

The War will star on Sep 25th

[Martin]

Message to Bush:

SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT..

Nuff said..

[KingK7]

Starting the war on sept 11th would be fucking pathetic.

[TaDoW]

attacking after 9/11 is ideal for his support. everyone will be mourning 9/11 this week, and rage and fury will be building. attacking on 9/11 would be foolish because it would soil the memory of our fallen, but afterward is perfect because everyone wants to kick some fuckin ass. They'll be through their mourning, and all that energy will turn to rage.

[Gemini]

Nothing against Canadians whatsoever, but why do you even care about when or if he sends troops?! Its not like you are going to be involved or that it will affect you a whole lot.

But of he does start something it won't be until after the November elections for sure. With the polls being against an invasion currently... the Repubs would lose alot of seats come November. Politics, who needs them?

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by Gemini
Nothing against Canadians whatsoever, but why do you even care about when or if he sends troops?! Its not like you are going to be involved or that it will affect you a whole lot.

So exactly how does invading IRAQ involve you?

Excuse me for sounding ignorant...but doesn't global politics involve everybody?

[sexyclicks]

Originally posted by Gemini
Nothing against Canadians whatsoever, but why do you even care about when or if he sends troops?! Its not like you are going to be involved or that it will affect you a whole lot.

I heard last time some Canadians died helping you....

[mika]

Originally posted by Gemini
Nothing against Canadians whatsoever, but why do you even care about when or if he sends troops?! Its not like you are going to be involved or that it will affect you a whole lot.

Eh, watching this debate from a safe distance, but if a terrorist plants a nuke in Detroit or Seattle, and the wind blows from south, won't the problems move across the border as well?

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Gemini
Nothing against Canadians whatsoever, but why do you even care about when or if he sends troops?! Its not like you are going to be involved or that it will affect you a whole lot.

You have got to be kidding me.


Is it so hard to imagine that many former Americans live here? That many Canadian families have relatives living in the US? I have tons of aunts, uncles and cousins that are Americans or have married Americans, and many of those family members are in the military or know people that are. Our countries are intertwined in that way, and in many other ways. What is it with this "This is our business" shit?? Another war in the Middle east doesn't affect the world or concern other countries now?

Bullshit. C'mon Gem, I wouldn't have expected this from you, this is more Kboy's speed of thought.

[Gemini]

I was going on purely the standpoint that Canada has basically declare itself OUT on any attacks, and it appears if this doofus is going to actually go thru with it, he's not going to be begging other countries for help.

Yes Canadians have helped in the past... (seems to me something was mentioned about being strapped for cash lately for the army up there so no help there)

Seattle or Detroit???? There isn't alot there to blowup that would benefit terrorists compared to other locations. They might disrupt the Seattle computer industry etc which wouldn't be good, nor would taking out Detroits auto industry, but come on, there are more important targets that would wreak alot more havouc.

Had some of you been in school in th 60's when we actually HAD nuclear attack drills, you'd know that there are 5 main wind drifts over this continent... ALL blowing gradually SouthEast. Yes the wind generally blows from the SW but it follows those down drifts. Besides the fact that a dirty bomb would only affect a small area and not have widespread nuclear devastation like some of you are picturing.

And no I don't condone an attack without being absoLUTELY sure that Iraq has the capability to make REAL nuclear bombs WITH the ways to deliver them. If he has the stuff, then there should be something done. But none of us are
1) Smart enough - with all the political BS that is involved.
2) Have ANY say in it


Number 2 says it all so all this talking about it has NO effect whatsoever on how this is handled. Its up to the powers that be, not us to decide. WE didn't vote the idiot in there.

[NoCarrier]

Invading IRAQ at this point is pure madness and would be a political suicide. No one is backing us. Also, expect one hell of a war. The worst kind. Urban warfare. Saddam is a psycho bitch, but he's not stupid. He knows why he lost 11 years ago. Expect a lot of body bags coming back home.

[Gemini]

Sorry CD... guess KM rubbed off on me. lol I'm just sick and tired of this subject being picked apart everywhere I go in RT and online.

I stand with: it will NOT be up to us as citizens to decide. It comes down to the president and whatnot to make that decision. So why keep worrying the subject like a dog after a bone. Guess I blew a fuse on the subject. If someone plants a bomb, there isn't alot we can do about it either. So WHY keep worrying about it.

If its someones time, then its that time. Ya kno'?

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by Gemini
And no I don't condone an attack without being absoLUTELY sure that Iraq has the capability to make REAL nuclear bombs WITH the ways to deliver them. If he has the stuff, then there should be something done. But none of us are
1) Smart enough - with all the political BS that is involved.
2) Have ANY say in it

A number of points

- Why doesn't Iraq have the right to possess Nuclear bombs? What about the soveriegnty of independent nations? (maybe Im playing devils advocate but doesn't America believe in the right to choose its own destiny? Why does the American government continue to deny this right to other nations around the world?)

- Smart Enough? Anybody who can utter a spoken dialect has an important voice to be heard when it comes to matters of international affairs.

- "Have ANY say in it" As a human being on planet earth, I think we ALL have a say in it.

[mika]

Originally posted by MrPopup

- Why doesn't Iraq have the right to possess Nuclear bombs? What about the soveriegnty of independent nations?

When you're about to get nuked, you kinda forget this sovereignty of nations and human rights BS.

[MrPopup]

When you're about to get nuked, you kinda forget this sovereignty of nations and human rights BS.

Yes...Human rights BS. I can't wait until the feds (or your government) bust you and you proclaim "What about my human rights BS?"

[CDSmith]

Gem --- I'm with you on that line of thinking. It's like worrying about the weather. Whatever is coming will come "weather" we talk bitch or whine about it, yet so many people do it. Yes, if GW attacks, then he attacks, and the shit will fall where it may. I for one haven't stressed over it in the least, largely because I have no control over it.


But as for your other comments about the wind systems over this continent I would disagree on one point.... ever hear of the Colorado low? It is a common regular weather system that starts building over the rockies and sweeps upward right into Canada and can go as far north as Hudson's Bay. In late spring, such an occurance has served to dump loads of snow on Winnipeg, and in the event of any sort of nuclear attack on the US, Canada would definitely see some fallout if there was any to be had, not to mention all sorts of other effects, like dead friends & relatives etc.

As I said, our countries are too intertwined not to affect each other in major occurances.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by MrPopup
- Why doesn't Iraq have the right to possess Nuclear bombs

Saddam's past behaviours have served to prove that Iraq can't be trusted with such a weapon of mass destruction. They are irresponsible. Any country that has caused that much grief and strife in the world doesn't deserve the kind of trust needed to possess nukes.


Just like your hometown needs to be policed, so to does the world need a cop. The USA is big enough and strong enough to be that cop, and I at least thank God that they are the type of nation that holds personal freedom in high regard, as does Canada. Yes, there are many civil rights issues, my own included, but by-and-large the basic precepts of a free society are upheld here. And Iraq has in the past committed egregious criminal acts against it's neighbors, so having the USA come a-calling on them isn't really all the much of a surprise, is it?

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Any country that has caused that much grief and strife in the world doesn't deserve the kind of trust needed to possess nukes.

LOL

I couldn't have said it better myself. Seems like I know another country or two that fits THAT bill.

[Honeyslut]

Originally posted by mika


Eh, watching this debate from a safe distance, but if a terrorist plants a nuke in Detroit or Seattle, and the wind blows from south, won't the problems move across the border as well?

Good point !

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by MrPopup
LOL

I couldn't have said it better myself. Seems like I know another country or two that fits THAT bill.

Let's explore this a bit shall we? I assume you are insinuating some slanted view against the USA, and remember.... I'm Canadian. With matters of the US I am not as biased as an American might be. You may be in Canada, but are you really a Canadian? Or are you an imigrant? Brother, you sound like some of these people from the Eastern bloc that hear propaganda-filled hatred of anything western.

So past practice it is then.....

Korea --- S. Korea is attacked and oppressed, thousands are slaughtered. They cry out to the world for help ... "Help! Anyone! Help us!! Help usss!!" and who answers the call? That's right egghead... the USA (and Canada for that matter, many Canadians died in Korea).

Vietnam -- S. Vietnamese people cry out to the world for help from the northern communist oppressors. Thousands are being slaughtered, and they cry out "Help!! We are being oppressed and have no way to defend ourselves....HELP!! HELP USSSS!!" ...... and the country to stand up and offer that help is guess who? the USA, that's right. Yes, they eventually lost that one, but the fact is they were there when no one else was.

Iraq invades Kuwait --- Thousands are killed, the whole country is in crisis, and they yell "HELP, help us!! We are being oppressed, our women raped and our people killed!!! HELP USSSS!!!" ....... and yes, it is the US (supported by the entire UN coalition forces) that again answers the fucking call. They go in, kick ass and chew bubble gum, and frankly some of the people in this world (like you perhaps) might be a bit more appreciative of this fact. Dipshit.

Kosovo--- Need I really continue on here? The Serbs were invading,... 3 million people begin running for their very lives to the nearest border, and they cry to the world "Help!! HELP US!! We are being oppressed!! Our wives and daughters are being raped, our people are being slaughtered!! Help USSSS!!!" ........ and yes good people of the world, that's right.... the US-of-of-fucking-A, along with UN and CANADIAN forces go in and again kick ass for the good of humanity. Thousands of Canadians and Americans pitch in food, blankets and raw goods to send over to those people, and we took in several thousand refugees as new citizens here as well.


bottom line is... we care. We care enough to do what other counties are unwilling to do, and we seem to get flack from fucking retards at every turn for it afterwards. One distinct difference between our countries (US & Canada) and other countries of the world is that our countrie's leaders are ACCOUNTABLE to us, the citizens, unlike dictatorships.

Maybe you should rethink your strategy a bit, and learn to see things a little differently, because those soldiers we send over to fight the next battle (possibly in YOUR country on behalf of YOUR sorry ass) are our brothers, sons, daughters, dads, nephews etc etc, and when they die for YOUR cause you won't hear us begrudging you or holding it against anyone.

It is who we are. And we care. Now fuck off.

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Maybe you should rethink your strategy a bit, and learn to see things a little differently, because those soldiers we send over to fight the next battle (possibly in YOUR country on behalf of YOUR sorry ass) are our brothers, sons, daughters, dads, nephews etc etc, and when they die for YOUR cause you won't hear us begrudging you or holding it against anyone.

Total Red Herring. I would never question the loyalty or dedication, nor the great things that anyone who has ever served in those particular battles have done.

But unfortunately it is you who fails to see the point. I'm talking about MILITARY INTERVENTION IN IRAQ FOR THE SAKE OF OIL - I am not even going to acknowledge any of the past socio-political / military actions that you very shallowly detailed.

Everybody knows that OIL is the only reason the US is even considering going into IRAQ. The fact that you callously offer the lives of citizens of a country you are not even a member of - IN DEFENSE OF OIL - is slightly perverted.

Turn off CNN. Turn off your Shoutcast streams stuck on www.m2ktalk.com

Turn on Noam Chomsky.

[MrPopup]

CDSmith,

In retrospect...I apologize for coming off a bit too nasty. This issue is fairly outside the typical bounds of adult industry topics.

I guess everybody feels strongly about it one way or another. I just wish I could see things like someone else in this thread who said "Who cares?!?"

I am officially "dropping my dukes"

[CDSmith]

Oil runs the world. It is a fact, and yes, in light of the fact that oil runs the world, it is very much important. But the Kuwaiti intervention and the subsequent war in the gulf wasn't just about oil, it was about right vs wrong and people's lives, and oppression too. What would your Chompsky and people like him have the world do? Just say "screw it" and let people like Saddam Insane take over and opress other populations at will? So, the next time a country's population is attacked, oppressed, raped, killed etc, we should turn a blind eye?


This is why I don't listen to Chompsky.

[Rose]

Turn on Noam Chomsky.
---------------------------------


HAHAHA Only commies and complete idiots believe in that moron.

[ChrisH]

CD,
Well put!!

Why is the world against this action? Well lets see. The entire Middle East is either theocratic, or monarchist with the exception of Iraq with is a millitary dictatorship. So why would the theocrats/monarchs want a democracy? They don't! They know that any democracy other then Israel will be the beginning of their end!

Why is Europe against it? Because they know they have not been supporting the embargo against Iraq, and they don't want the rest of the world to find proof of this!

Just today Tariq Aziz (sp?) told Koffi Annan that they would allow limited inspection in Iraq. Which the UN is against any type of "limited" inspection. It has to be unfettered, any time any where.

I would hope the Bush Admin would be smart enough to let Iraq hang themselves by playing games with inspections. Then there will be no reason not to take him out!

Lastly, Iraq put up a fight? Don't make me laugh! This time they will be surrenderring to Fox News, not CNN. LOL.....

[mika]

Originally posted by CDSmith
So, the next time a country's population is attacked, oppressed, raped, killed etc, we should turn a blind eye?

Eh, there are many countries in the world in which the above atrocities happen every day, but IF the country is in the middle of nowhere in Africa or somewhere and doesn't have oil or anything else for that matter, then yes, Western countries including USA, Canada and EU usually turn a blind eye.

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by mika


Eh, there are many countries in the world in which the above atrocities happen every day, but IF the country is in the middle of nowhere in Africa or somewhere and doesn't have oil or anything else for that matter, then yes, Western countries including USA, Canada and EU usually turn a blind eye.

How much oil did we get from Kosovo? Or Korea? How much?

[MrPopup]

We're talking IRAQ sweet lips. Red Herring's need not apply!

[mika]

Originally posted by ChrisH



How much oil did we get from Kosovo? Or Korea? How much?

Read the post.. I said "anything else for that matter".
Kosovo and Korea have (/had) something else than oil.

If you want I can list some countries where people are getting oppressed and killed and no-one is doing anything but since you probably havent even heard of those countries, you would just start crying.. ;)

[ChrisH]

mika,
You mean there are other countries other then the US, and Canada? No.... your kidding me right??

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by mika
If you want I can list some countries where people are getting oppressed and killed and no-one is doing anything but since you probably havent even heard of those countries, you would just start crying.. ;)

Do WAR HAWKS ever cry?

Most of the time they just open their mouth and spew.

A couple of posts back one dude punctuated every point of his argument by insulting me. That argument style is so transparent because right away you can identify inherent insecurity in that individual's personality.

He/she doesn't even believe what he/she is saying so he/she adds an insult to misdirect attention from the logical flaws in the argument.

Bogus!

[Rose]

Noam Chomsky supported Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in the 70's.
That says it all. Genocide under that regime was one of the worst in the history of the planet.

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by Rose
Noam Chomsky supported Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in the 70's. That says it all. Genocide under that regime was one of the worst in the history of the planet.

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm

Dude.... find me some quotes to back up what you are saying.

[Rose]

Noam Chomsky defended Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot in Cambodia, even after it was learned that the Khmer Rouge led by Pol Pot killed 2,000,000 people between 1975-1979. I have not been able to confirm this number but it's close. he is a Socialist who hates Western civilization.

It's not that hard to fint it if you want.
Even on the net.I am not gonna waste my time on some commie idiot.

Chomsky chose to go to North Vietnam and praise the regime there as the one that came closer to his ideal social system than South Vietnam or the USA, just as his defenders do today. That gives us a pretty good idea.
When the final invasion came, the South Vietnamese people didn't welcome the Viet Cong as liberators, they fled from them as if they were flesh-eating zombies, fleeing the country in anything that could float by the hundreds of thousands. Those who made it were the lucky ones, those who were left behind to starve after the collectivization of South Vietnamese agriculture by the Viet Cong were the worst victims.

[CDSmith]

Mika -- tell me bro, what did the US get from Somalia? Tell me. Oil? Hardly.

No, they went in there to HELP. Period.


The trouble with people like you is that you love to sit and criticize. It's easy to criticize, makes you feel smart and important much of the time. Fact is, people who criticize are often the ones that do the least.

Are you a helper? A doer? Or are you going to join in with the useless critics who choose to fail in seeing the good in things? I'll tell you this much... there are people living right now in Korea, Viet Nam, Somalia, Kuwait, Kosovo, and right across Europe that are absolutely fucking GRATEFUL that the USA chose to come and try to help them.

Sometimes, criticism just plain sucks.

[Theo]

Originally posted by MrPopup

perverted.

Turn off CNN. Turn off your Shoutcast streams stuck on www.m2ktalk.com

Turn on Noam Chomsky.

damn! i have said exactly the same two sentences at least two times in the past here.....

[Rose]

MrPopup
But to his credit Noam Chomsky is a very clever man, and has managed to dupe thousands. He is able to twist just about anything into a hate-filled rant against America, and all things American. This opportunistic Marxist wants to bring that country down, even as he grows fat on the goodness and blessing that we all have here. Free speech avocate? Only when it serves his side; that of the liberty-hating socialists. There is not a single Marxist country that has ever provided a good example in the sense of making its economy better or its people freer. Chomsky seems to have missed this most basic fact of 20th century history: Socialism doesn?t work.

[mika]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Mika -- tell me bro, what did the US get from Somalia? Tell me. Oil? Hardly.

No, they went in there to HELP. Period.

Don't get upset. I'm totally objective here. I have no problem admitting that thanks to USA I'm not speaking Russian language here.
Thanks to USA this world probably, indeed, is a better place.

That does not mean that one couldn't criticize.

I was pointing out that there are MANY countries in the world with the atrocities that you mentioned, yet no western country takes action. And I was including EU to those western countries, by the way.

[Theo]

lol yes right,he hates america, execute him......

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by mika

That does not mean that one couldn't criticize.

The point is... bullies like this don't want you to criticize.

Look what happened here....because I proclaimed a distaste for murdering people, these fellas branded me a "Commie".

Typical bully behaviour. Can't discuss things in a normal manner...incapable of delivering a message without resorting to petty insults.

I think someone had it right when they suggested this topic was beyond the cerebral potential of this forum.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
lol yes right,he hates america, execute him......

No, but it is the very freedom that we base our society on that <i>allows</i> people like Chumpsky to say what they want to, good or bad....or idiotic as the case may be.


Think about it.... if he was shouting, preaching and rambling on so loudly AGAINST marxism and against the communistic platforms, how long do you think he'd be safe in those countries? Fact is he'd have had his fucking head cut off long ago. See the difference? Please, this chumpsky argument is really quite lame. Rose has this one nailed for once.

[ChrisH]

Perhaps we should just do nothing. Let him take his free shot at one of our allies most likely Israel, but he could reach Europe. Then when we have 100,000 dead people then we can do something. But yea we should wait untill he acts first.

[mika]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Mika -- tell me bro, what did the US get from Somalia? Tell me. Oil? Hardly.

No, they went in there to HELP. Period.

And I'm not a Somalia expert - no way, but from what I've read, UN/USA didn't even finish the job there.

The country is still ruled by warlords, and numerous clans kill and oppress Somalian people.

Rwanda
Liberia
Papua New Guinea

No one's doing anything...

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Chumpsky

LOL....

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by MrPopup
Look what happened here....because I proclaimed a distaste for murdering people, these fellas branded me a "Commie".

If you are putting forth and glorifying the preachings of people like Chomsky, then you have branded yourself a commie.


How many people has the dick-tater Saddam murdered, or had murdered? Hmm? If left to continue to operate within his little world unsupervised, how many more will he cause to die?

Millions.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by mika
And I'm not a Somalia expert - no way, but from what I've read, UN/USA didn't even finish the job there.

But they at least tried, which is more than you can say for other countries.

[MrPopup]

Originally posted by mika


And I'm not a Somalia expert - no way, but from what I've read, UN/USA didn't even finish the job there.

The country is still ruled by warlords, and numerous clans kill and oppress Somalian people.

Rwanda
Liberia
Papua New Guinea

No one's doing anything...

All the points you mention are valid. Notice the WAR HAWKS can't seem to refute any of it??!?

Here is typical response....

"well...uh...you know it was the USA that gave you your freedom and if we've got the bomb we should use it to stop others from keeping our oil. bomb them. your so stupid dont you know why dont you try living in (insert war-torn name here) and then see how the fuck you like it you stupid motherfucker."