One thing that bugs me about plane crashes

[Dirty F]

So on Nat Geo they have this series called air crash investigation.

I noticed one 2 returning things after seeing a dozen or episodes.

Everytime when things go wrong which usually are:
Suddenly stuff stops working. Like engines or steering stuff or anything else.
Or smoke appearing out of nowhere or anything else really that doesnt make the plane crash right away but sure looks like a big problem they are required to do 2 things:

Get the fucking HUGE plane manual and search up the problem and follow the steps. 9 out of 10 times before the even finish it the plane by then met the ground. And the other thing is "climb to a safe altitude" Yup, try to get 10km in the air so you have time before you crash.

Not once is the first reaction "ok lets get this plane on the ground as soon as fucking possible". I understand they can not land just anywhere and above the ocean that for sure isnt an option but so many times the just keep on flying thinking they can solve the problem through a manual. So after 45 minutes that smoke turned into a big fire and then its too late.

[who]

Originally Posted by Dirty Franck

So on Nat Geo they have this series called air crash investigation.

I noticed one 2 returning things after seeing a dozen or episodes.

Everytime when things go wrong which usually are:
Suddenly stuff stops working. Like engines or steering stuff or anything else.
Or smoke appearing out of nowhere or anything else really that doesnt make the plane crash right away but sure looks like a big problem they are required to do 2 things:

Get the fucking HUGE plane manual and search up the problem and follow the steps. 9 out of 10 times before the even finish it the plane by then met the ground. And the other thing is "climb to a safe altitude" Yup, try to get 10km in the air so you have time before you crash.

Not once is the first reaction "ok lets get this plane on the ground as soon as fucking possible". I understand they can not land just anywhere and above the ocean that for sure isnt an option but so many times the just keep on flying thinking they can solve the problem through a manual. So after 45 minutes that smoke turned into a big fire and then its too late.

I think those large planes such as 747 and whatnot can ONLY land safely on an airstrip. They can't just 'put her down' in a field or something.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by who

I think those large planes such as 747 and whatnot can ONLY land safely on an airstrip. They can't just 'put her down' in a field or something.

Well im not talking about a field really. Its just that instead of finding the nearest airport first they go search in some manual while a fire is burning.

[Sly]

I'm sure there are thousands of instances where the first response of "find a manual" eliminated any problems.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by Sly

I'm sure there are thousands of instances where the first response of "find a manual" eliminated any problems.

Im sure there are but come on, smoke coming out of an area they cant even reach and dont know what it is means land the fucking plane in my book.

[who]

Originally Posted by Dirty Franck

Im sure there are but come on, smoke coming out of an area they cant even reach and dont know means land the fucking plane in my book.

Maybe smoke coming out of somewhere doesn't mean that place is where the fire is.. and they need to look in the manual to figure out how to find the fire and how to deal with it? I don't know. There's probably a 'don't panic' element in their not rushing to land, also.

[Dirty F]

It also bugs me that companies take calculated risks.

Take plane type x. Lets say it crashed 5 years ago and they found out a minor detail in the design can actually make the plane crash BUT it's very rare. It happened once and it can happen again but maybe only once every 25 years. So they then calculate what it would cost to repair all those planes or what it would cost in lawsuits and settlements when a plane might crash. Settlements would be cheaper? Ok no fixing of the plane.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Dirty Franck

Im sure there are but come on, smoke coming out of an area they cant even reach and dont know what it is means land the fucking plane in my book.

Like I said. I'm sure that happens often and the manual is a quick saviour instead of risking hundreds of lives every time in an emergency landing.

I like to think I'm pretty smart, but I doubt I'm smarter than the knowledge and experience 100 years of flight has yielded.

[who]

Originally Posted by Dirty Franck

It also bugs me that companies take calculated risks.

Take plane type x. Lets say it crashed 5 years ago and they found out a minor detail in the design can actually make the plane crash BUT it's very rare. It happened once and it can happen again but maybe only once every 25 years. So they then calculate what it would cost to repair all those planes or what it would cost in lawsuits and settlements when a plane might crash. Settlements would be cheaper? Ok no fixing of the plane.

Does that really happen? It would be fucking horrible if it does.

Then again, in this world... it probably does.

[RawAlex]

The manuals exist for a reason. Drastic and dramatic actions without guidance can lead a larger and more complete crash.

The manuals exist to make sure that simple fixes, bypasses, or similar simple solutions aren't missed. Most aircraft have backups on almost every system, and you need to take the time to try to engage them in the correct manner. Those manuals are NOT a joke.

The sad fact is that gravity is a bitch. The level of problem that makes your car stop on the side of the road is usually a big fatal crash in airplane terms.

[Doctor Dre]

Dude if there was a safer solution they would be using it... flying is very safe.

[Brother Bilo]

First thing you need to remember is that pilots aren't the mechanics, not to mention that aircraft are about as complicated as it gets, especially commercial aircraft. "Safe Altitude" can mean a lot of things though. It could be that the plane has lost pressure, so the altitude where you can breath without oxygen masks is needed. Or it could be the altitude where you can dump the remainding fuel on board safely without it just spilling onto who knows what, causing another problem. The shits is complicated.

Originally Posted by who

Does that really happen? It would be fucking horrible if it does.

Then again, in this world... it probably does.

It definitely does. I have a buddy that went through the same ordeal, except with trains instead of planes. They figured out the cost of reflective stripes on every cargo car would be cheaper than the cost of law suits for people in the country driving into trains at unmarked crossings.

He is set to win 3.5 million. They are appealing, but I think he is going to win a shitload.

[Phoenix]

what amazes me about those shows...is the amount of wrecakge you see after the crash

bodies...plane parts..engines from the planes..identifiable markings that show what plane it was.

Originally Posted by evildick

It definitely does. I have a buddy that went through the same ordeal, except with trains instead of planes. They figured out the cost of reflective stripes on every cargo car would be cheaper than the cost of law suits for people in the country driving into trains at unmarked crossings.

He is set to win 3.5 million. They are appealing, but I think he is going to win a shitload.

This was supposed to say that the cost of reflective stripes on every cargo car would be more expensive than the cost of law suits for people in the country driving into trains at unmarked crossings.

I have been drinking, so I apologize for my stupidity.

[notabook]

Originally Posted by who

Does that really happen? It would be fucking horrible if it does.

Then again, in this world... it probably does.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XS3mhjt7TrY - Bayer sold HIV-tainted drugs - drugs they knew had HIV in it - just to make a buck. It was "cost efficient" for a few people to get AIDS

[adultfora]

as a pilot even if your crash-landing your need to find a area with no residents to crash at, thats why they go high if they can

[bobby666]

flying is simply unhealthy
if manhood should fly we all would have wings

[StuBradley]

Very, very rarely does something catastrophic happen in mid flight. Over 95% of all airplane crashes take place as the plane is taking off or landing (thus the large 'buffer zones' that typically surround an airport). A monkey can fly a typical jetliner if all systems are in check. Knowing how to handle things when they go wrong is why these guys spend hundreds of hours in training.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by Brother Bilo

Or it could be the altitude where you can dump the remainding fuel on board safely without it just spilling onto who knows what, causing another problem.

how your altitude matters exactly when it comes to dumping fuel?

[spunkmaster]

List three plane crashes that crashed because of fire in the last 10 years!

You won't find three because they never crash because of fire !

Infact, you won't find hardly any that crashed from 10,000 feet because
it's very rare.

Almost all occur within the first minute or the last minute of the flight
close the the airport!

[Violetta]

I saw one episode some days ago. About that old pilot from Egypt(?). He was alone in the cockpit and crashed the plane by himself. Crazy shit

[xcitecash]

i thought when a plane hits a building it completely disapeared* into nothing.. so what to worry about

*apart from the pilots passport of course

[Matt 26z]

I'd like to know why they don't build planes so that the passenger (and pilot) part can pull away from the rest of the plane and parachute safely to the ground.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I'd like to know why they don't build planes so that the passenger (and pilot) part can pull away from the rest of the plane and parachute safely to the ground.

thats a good question, but that would be too expensive and most people wouldn't want to pay for it, considering air travel is the safest way of travelling anyway

I'm always paranoic about things that are out of my contol, so I surely would pay for it, heh

[StuBradley]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I'd like to know why they don't build planes so that the passenger (and pilot) part can pull away from the rest of the plane and parachute safely to the ground.

All of the new Cirrus planes come with the CAPS system which deploys a 55 foot wide parachute in emergencies bringing the airplane AND passengers to the ground safely.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by StuBradley

All of the new Cirrus planes come with the CAPS system which deploys a 55 foot wide parachute in emergencies bringing the airplane AND passengers to the ground safely.

well he was talking about commercial planes.........

[aico]

The thing that bothers me is when someone survives they thank God, when they all die, they blame the pilots.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by aico

The thing that bothers me is when someone survives they thank God, when they all die, they blame the pilots.

Yes exactly. And if its all in gods hands why did that plane almost crash in the first place?

That isnt gods work but when they survive that suddenly is gods work.

[Wizzo]

I very interesting FACT is that in a commercial plane crash your chances for SURVIVAL are 94%, they just like to show the fiery bloody ones...

[cranki]

Originally Posted by Dirty Franck

It also bugs me that companies take calculated risks.

Take plane type x. Lets say it crashed 5 years ago and they found out a minor detail in the design can actually make the plane crash BUT it's very rare. It happened once and it can happen again but maybe only once every 25 years. So they then calculate what it would cost to repair all those planes or what it would cost in lawsuits and settlements when a plane might crash. Settlements would be cheaper? Ok no fixing of the plane.

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.

[justsexxx]

Originally Posted by StuBradley

All of the new Cirrus planes come with the CAPS system which deploys a 55 foot wide parachute in emergencies bringing the airplane AND passengers to the ground safely.

I'm scared as hell for flying. That really would help me They should make that kind of systems on a commercial airplane(but probably way to expensive)

[justsexxx]

wow I'm a great thread killer :S

[_Richard_]

i would like someone to find out what the problem was, or at least think, before they try and do an emergancy landing in the middle of no where lol

[Brother Bilo]

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

how your altitude matters exactly when it comes to dumping fuel?

If you dump fuel at a low altitude, it will get all over everything and could cause fires and all kinds of other ecological problems. If the fuel is dumped at a higher altitude, it disipates and spreads out to the point where its vaporizes and is no longer an issue.

[Cory W]

Franck, you watch the one where the dudes glided to .... I think Iceland???? Wicked as hell. They got some award for that, but many blamed them for it.

Awesome episode.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Franck, you watch the one where the dudes glided to .... I think Iceland???? Wicked as hell. They got some award for that, but many blamed them for it.

Awesome episode.

Ah no havent seen that one i think. They will show it sooner or later here i guess.

[Cory W]

Maybe?

http://www.tv.com/national-geographi...ist;ep_title;2

[Cory W]

Originally Posted by Dirty Franck

Ah no havent seen that one i think. They will show it sooner or later here i guess.

Best ever, by far. Seriously. It appears rated the highest all time for that show.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by bobby666

flying is simply unhealthy
if manhood should fly we all would have wings

I gotta say that your broken English had me rolling there. I know its rude to laugh but that was just great

I love that series btw, that and Seconds from Disaster.

Oh and if you happen to watch Situation Critical they interview all these people in foreign languages without providing a translation.

[corvette]

what about that greek crash about a year or year and a half ago where everyone in the plane was knocked unconscious and there were some escort jets that saw a stewardess franticly trying to manage the controls before it hit a mountain. i recall something about passengers txting people on the ground some time before the crash saying it was really cold

thats a freaky one, dont think the cause was ever discovered

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by corvette

what about that greek crash about a year or year and a half ago where everyone in the plane was knocked unconscious and there were some escort jets that saw a stewardess franticly trying to manage the controls before it hit a mountain. i recall something about passengers txting people on the ground some time before the crash saying it was really cold

thats a freaky one, dont think the cause was ever discovered

this article coverts that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

interestingly, it also says that the SMS from the plane passenger was a hoax

News media widely reported that shortly before the crash a passenger sent a SMS transmission indicating that one of the flight crew had become blue in the face, or roughly translated as "The pilot is dead. Farewell, my cousin, here we're frozen." Police later arrested Nektarios-Sotirios Voutas, a 32 year-old private employee from Thessaloniki, who admitted that he had made up the story and given several interviews in order to get attention.[9] Voutas was tried by a court of first instance on August 17, 2005 and received a suspended 6-month imprisonment sentence under a 42-month probation term

but yeah, its been quite a terrible accident

[rowan]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Franck, you watch the one where the dudes glided to .... I think Iceland???? Wicked as hell. They got some award for that, but many blamed them for it.

Awesome episode.

There's also the one where a 747's engines keep intermittently cutting out and restarting. At one point all engines were off and they were gliding.

Once they got onto the ground they found their paint job had been sandblasted by ash from a volcano eruption; they'd been flying right through the cloud, which is what had killed their engines.

[polish_aristocrat]

two interesting sites about plane crashes, for someone who - like me - has too much free time and is interested in the subject, or is simply scared of flying

http://airdisaster.com/
http://planecrashinfo.com/

[Brother Bilo]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I'd like to know why they don't build planes so that the passenger (and pilot) part can pull away from the rest of the plane and parachute safely to the ground.

Well, if the cabin and cockpit seperate, there isn't anything left except what you use to control the plane. Even without power you can still control the plane using the rudders, ailerons and elevators. Besides, even with a parachute, the impact would probably break everyones back.

[corvette]

thanks for posting that, like i said, very freaky

Most of the bodies recovered were burned beyond visual identification by the fierce fires that raged for hours in the dry brush and grass covering the crash site. However, it was determined that a body found in the cockpit area was that of a female flight attendant[5], suggesting that she was indeed trying to prevent a crash. DNA testing revealed that the blood on the aircraft controls was that of flight attendant Andreas Prodromou, a novice private pilot, suggesting he was the other person the F-16 pilots saw in the pilot's seat. Autopsies on the crash victims showed that all were alive and maintained cardiac and respiratory function upon impact, but it could not be determined whether they were conscious at the time.

The investigation showed that the cockpit door was locked during the flight. However, in the last few minutes of the flight, as the engines consumed the last drops of fuel, power was cut to several parts of the plane, including the cockpit door. This resulted in the door unlocking, giving access to the two.[6]

The two flight attendants most likely didn't know the code as the purser had probably already lost consciousness. It is speculated that they had retained their awareness using oxygen bottles.

[ServerGenius]

you'd be really suprised when you knew the possibilities for big planes to land.
The can land on their belly, on dirt, roads, fields and yes even on water......
the only crucial part during landing is the speed they have when touching
down. If they can keep the speed low before touching down a lot of other
stuff can go wrong without causing hundreds of casualties.

There's a documentary that shows the abuse to a plane it is required to
withstand before it will get approved for use as commercial airliner. That
shit is unreal those test pilots have titanium bowling size balls as well as
insane flying skills.

[corvette]

Originally Posted by Brother Bilo

Well, if the cabin and cockpit seperate, there isn't anything left except what you use to control the plane. Even without power you can still control the plane using the rudders, ailerons and elevators. Besides, even with a parachute, the impact would probably break everyones back.

plus i think there are issues with parachutes on jets. they have them on some small aircraft, but i think there would be major stress issues, when diploying a parachute on a jet going 500 miles per hour (or whatever speed)

[corvette]

one more interesting point as it relates to this thread is that in the cases where the compensation is determined for crash victims, the length of time that they are aware they are going to die plays a major factor in amount of compensation. for instance, if the passengers find out 10 seconds before its X amount, if they find out 2 min before, it could be 3 times what X is

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by corvette

one more interesting point as it relates to this thread is that in the cases where the compensation is determined for crash victims, the length of time that they are aware they are going to die plays a major factor in amount of compensation. for instance, if the passengers find out 10 seconds before its X amount, if they find out 2 min before, it could be 3 times what X is

heh interesting

btw whats the compensation for survivors? lets say 200 people die and 5 surive? ocassionally it happens...

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123

japan airlines accident in 1985 - 520 fatalities! and 4 survivors!