GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum - you want government run health care?

Page 2 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum (https://gfy.com/index.php)

- Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

- - you want government run health care? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=753169)

dig420

07-20-2007 05:27 PM

"Health Care America was one of several industry-funded organizations to engage in media outreach around the Michael Moore movie "Sicko," released in June 2007. The New York Sun reported:[5]

Health Care America, whose Web site says it is funded in part by pharmaceutical manufacturers, staged a conference call that drew nearly 20 reporters from around the country, including correspondents from the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post, organizers said.
"The purpose of the call was to discuss what Michael Moore left out of his movie," the group's executive director, Sarah Berk, said. "We're launching an educational effort to educate the public and the media and lawmakers about the realities of single-payer health care systems around the world."
The New York Times reported: "Health Care America, a group that is financed in part by pharmaceutical and hospital companies, placed an advertisement in a Capitol Hill newspaper stating: 'In America, you wait in line to see a movie. In government-run health care systems, you wait to see a doctor.'" [6]

Health Care America's website lists as least five press releases from the group related to "Sicko":" etc and so on

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...h_Care_America

Why are you 'conservatives' so proud of being such suckers?

dig420

07-20-2007 05:28 PM

I mean, you have to have the mind of a 5 yr old to keep getting hustled the way you do, right? And you still never consider the source?

tony286

07-20-2007 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 12791850)

I'm 32, you do the math. The 'war' time I sent, was in many countries.. I was part of the Marines Special Reaction Teams. Other than my Capt, I'm the last person alive from SRT 2. I saw my roommate kill himself, and I went into the house as my staff sargent offed his family... What we did, we did...

I now have insurance, I got it once I was able to work again and once I was allowed to work.

I inquired about the bill too, through the VA to get it paid. They denied it since It wasn't an authorized VA hospital. I was denied my VA rights 4 times because "i seemed better".

VETS are being f'ed over by the Gov and medical crap, very badly and have been for years. Golf War Syndrome is real, people missing legs is real.. Why can't they get help, because they got jobs?

Learn why.. vets do this, learn why we are forced to do it. Then get your ass up and donate to your local vet orgization.

I am a member of the AL and SAL, my Dad was the Commander of the AL, my Mom currently works for them. My entire family supports and fights for vets rights..

I did what was right - I support any Vet that needs medical attention now and I do not think they should ever have to pay for it.. Even if you only did supply, you did something millions of others are to afraid to do.

This doesn't tell me what war you were in? I have friends that are active marines neither has seen any combat.One is doing IT in japan,the other does paperwork at a base in NC. Vets do get fucked over and how they still support this president baffles me.

EonBlue

07-20-2007 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 12791852)

In other countries with universal healthcare, you can pay for additional care. You'll still get the same medical treatment, of course, but you might get a private room in the hospital, that kind of stuff.

Anything apart from that, though, would be quite fucked up. Imagine two kids with cancer, one getting worse medical treatment than the other because his parents don't have enough money to pay for the best quality. A sickening thought :2 cents:

Well, we can pay extra for private rooms (if any are available) and things like that but we can't pay directly for medical or diagnostic procedures.

EonBlue

07-20-2007 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 12791855)

show me a real website.

Why is that not a real website? Because you don't like what it says?

dig420

07-20-2007 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EonBlue (Post 12791884)

Why is that not a real website? Because you don't like what it says?

because at a half second's glance it's put together by the Miami Castro hating cuban community.

Why is it you idiot conservatives always go for the shakiest, most unreliable sources and believe them to the bitter end over citizen watchdog organizations who have no other motivation than the public good?

Are you stupid?

tony286

07-20-2007 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EonBlue (Post 12791884)

Why is that not a real website? Because you don't like what it says?

No because its obvious why its set up.

EonBlue

07-20-2007 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 12791862)

Canadian corporations can provide extended health care services, it's not illegal.

It is illegal, for example, to pay to see a doctor, to pay for an MRI, to pay for a knee surgery, etc.

The only extended services that you can pay for are things like prescriptions, private rooms, etc.

tony286

07-20-2007 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420 (Post 12791890)

Most of the right wing argument is based on lies, if they had to tell the truth.They would have nothing to say.

Libertine

07-20-2007 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EonBlue (Post 12791878)

Well, we can pay extra for private rooms (if any are available) and things like that but we can't pay directly for medical or diagnostic procedures.

Isn't that a good thing, though?

If you could pay extra for better treatment, it would take little time for a high-priced, alternative healthcare circuit to arise. With higher prices, it could afford to offer better pay to doctors, thus draining disproportionately many well-trained and talented doctors from the public system. Basically, the quality of public healthcare would decrease, even though the quality of private healthcare might rise to levels public healthcare could never achieve. In other words, the child of poor parents would get significantly worse healthcare than the child of rich parents would.

TheDoc

07-20-2007 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 12791870)

The president is our boss, we support him. He doesn't make these type of calls and he can't do anything about it.

War wise, it was the Gulf, but I saw no action in the 1 week at camp, It was at an MP camp. I think in 95, as they were closing it up. To be in SRT you start off as an MP, and move up the ranks.

I have been to cuba, all over South America, panama, I can't even remotely recall all the places. I really didn't do all that much, but I saw and did enough that it f'ed me up.

Really, right up until I met Kristin, I was still really jacked up. Not that it's all clear now but I have control over it. I'm still very careful about adrenaline rushes as they can.. make me black out, and some news stories still get me.

I hate to see Vets get denied for medical help, forced to pay when they can't work, and being pushed out the military early so they don't have to give up benefits (before 2 years, no help people).. We should all support, donate to vet orgs and if you get a chance stand up fight for one, they did it for you.

StuBradley

07-20-2007 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 12791515)

http://www.healthcare-america.org/wo.../horror_uk.cfm:(

What exactly is your point posting this link. The majority of these people are complaining that they couldnt get experimental treatments for their cancer. HELLO!!!! Ninety percent of the health insurance companies here would reject paying for these treatments as well. Nothing is perfect, but that doesn't mean that our system doesn't need a major overhaul. The simple fact is that people here are dying unnecessarily because they cannot get insurance coverage and postpone seeking medical attention (because of the costs) until it is too late. This is why Americans don't live as long as those in countries with national health care. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of care (for those who can afford it) we get here.

GreyWolf

07-20-2007 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 12791915)

That may have been the motivation when lawmakers initiated any related laws.

Can't say for Canada specifically, but the EU does not have any limitations on paying docs - you can pay whoever you like :) As far as conflict in healthcare services is concerned - that is not a big deal and anyone who elects to use private healthcare may get an extra bunch of flowers in the room, but it's the same docs, the same heart value, the same drugs etc and same standard of care provided under the universal healthcare system.

However - There is a business in providing healthcare insurance cover to anyone this may appeal to and some corps have group policies for their employees etc and on which they get tax benefits. Depending - some of these policies can be fairly expensive - especially when the net benefit is the cost of a floral arrangement :winkwink:

Bottom line - there is little conflict between the UHC and private treatment.

notabook

07-20-2007 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 12791706)

The Dutch system would work for you, then. Insurance agencies are required to have a "basic" plan (which covers all normal medical care, but excludes things like acupuncture) to which they have to admit everyone who applies, regardless of existing medical conditions, etc. People with low incomes receive money from the government to compensate them for the costs, but getting insurance is mandatory.

The few homeless people who might not get insurance receive medical care nonetheless, and their costs are written off, but nobody apart from them goes without insurance.

Meanwhile, the government pays for some of the most expensive parts of treatment (eg multi-month stays in revalidation centers), so health insurance agencies can insure people without running too much risk.

The best part: private insurance agencies actually compete to provide us with cheap health insurance that will admit everyone.

The dutch system sounds fucking awesome! The part I bolded really speaks why healthcare in America suffers greatly: there is no competition here. In nearly every businesses you see the prices drop... shit, look how much HD DVD players have dropped in a year (from 1k down to under $500). Competition breeds lower prices; you don't ever see this happening in the medical industry. The prices never seem to go down but only up. If that's not price-fixing I don't know what is.

A government-ran or at least a government-sponsored healthcare system would force the private industry to compete directly with them, driving the costs of healthcare down while simultaneously increasing the quality of said healthcare. It's a win-win situation for EVERYONE, tax payers included. Healthcare in the US would finally become preventive and improving our population's health for decades to come.

EonBlue

07-20-2007 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420 (Post 12791890)

Oh, you're one of those types. Nevermind then.

EonBlue

07-20-2007 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine (Post 12791915)

There are many European countries with parallel public and private systems that provide good healthcare to everyone. In most cases all doctors are required to provide a set amount of time to the public system but then are still free to run their private systems on the side for those who are willing to pay. It ends up being a win-win for everyone.

We have huge wait times for many diagnostic and surgical procedures here in Canada because the government won't let private operations provide services to meet the excess demand. Many of our doctors go to the US so we suffer doctor shortages. Most of our hospitals are controlled by unions to the point where almost all new money put into the healthcare system goes to cover negotiated wage increases and hardly any goes toward new equipment, more nurses or more doctors.

I know the American system has problems, but don't look to Canada as an example of how to make it better. We rank just as low on global healthcare as the US. There are better models in the world to follow and they all include parallel public/private systems.

tony286

07-20-2007 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 12791934)

Thank you for serving.

pocketkangaroo

07-20-2007 08:24 PM

So a website that pretends to be neutral but really is run by the Pharm companies is a trusted source? Why not post a website that tells us that burning oil is good for the world and is funded by Exxon?

tony286

07-20-2007 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EonBlue (Post 12792137)

Im in the usa ,I pay for my health insurance. My wife needed to see a specialist,it was Feb she didnt see the actual doctor till August. My father has just been diagnosed with cancer. They said it was fast growing and then in the next breath said he wouldnt be able to see one specialist for at least 2 weeks and the other it could be October. If my mother didnt have high powered connections in the medical field he would be waiting instead of being taken care of.
This is all with paid insurance, that keeps getting more expensive every year.

tony286

07-20-2007 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 12792320)

Thats almost every article or group that says global warming is a scam.

pocketkangaroo

07-20-2007 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 12791934)

I hate to see Vets get denied for medical help, forced to pay when they can't work, and being pushed out the military early so they don't have to give up benefits (before 2 years, no help people).. We should all support, donate to vet orgs and if you get a chance stand up fight for one, they did it for you.

The way this country treats our vets is an absolute disgrace. Especially from an administration that sends kids off to war and throws them in rat infested rooms when they return wounded. I see tons of Vietnam Vets in Chicago begging for change on the street. We are the wealthiest country in the world and treat those who fought for us with utter disrespect. It's a shame.

jakethedog

07-20-2007 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 12791862)

Canadian corporations can provide extended health care services, it's not illegal.

extended health care covers a % of things like massage therapy for injury and lowers your prescription costs but that's about it .. there is no "jumping the Que" so to speak .. and not really a need .. emergency is just that emergency .... if your waiting for a liver well your waiting in line for a liver ..when one comes in your on the list .... an old woman's hip replacement because it just wore out and she is getting around just fine in her scooter is probably gonna be a little after the kid who had his leg cut off as far as wait time ..
BUT if you want a new set of tits .. you can have that next week ..but that is private practice..

TheDoc

07-20-2007 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 12792302)

Thank you for serving.

Thank you.. Rockhard is a fellow Marine too, many ex-military here on GFY.

Kristin has more reasons to gripe about health care, more than anyone I know at least. We 'had' to pay for our kids birth, even though we had insurance. Her meds would cost around $500+ a month or she could die. If she doesn't work for larger companies she can make the entire companies insurance rates double, even triple depending on the company size. She can't get personal insurance, they deny her.

The entire medical system, health care, ect.. is f'ed up and I don't think this country is going to unscrew it for at least 20 years.

TheDoc

07-20-2007 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakethedog (Post 12792356)

Aye, I oddly know how it works in Canada, I lived in Edmonton for two years. But you can do one thing, that the 'extra health care' provides, you can opt to come to the United States, where you don't wait if you have insurance, sad.

TheDoc

07-20-2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 12792349)

The way this country treats our vets is an absolute disgrace.

You are correct, war time or not, sitting at a base your entire 4 years pushing paper, you still served and should still be treated with respect by the Gov.

The Army commercials should quit saying earn $50,000 for college and say,get $50,000 for health care after we bone you over for serving us.

IllTestYourGirls

07-20-2007 08:44 PM

here is an idea NO INSURANCE! Then everyone could afford health care. The billions a year hospitals make off medicare and what not will be gone and they will be forced like very other business to charge what their average customer can afford

mikesouth

07-20-2007 08:46 PM

I think where we need to look for reform is at the insurance companies, who we all know, do everything possible to keep from paying a claim, just look at the discrepancy in pricing. Take me for example. I'm currently covered by a corporate policy that was obtained for me by a family member through her employer. The policy costs 210.00 per month and includes vision care and dental. When I called the same company asking for the same exact coverage my cost would have been 860.00 per month with no vision or dental care. Why is there such a huge discrepancy in pricing? And don't give me that "group policy" bullshit why can't Americans be a group?

Thats where our government probably needs to look if we want to solve the healthcare crisis. I know I for one can think of precious few things that the government does well, why would I want to entrust them with the most important thing to me, my health?

I recently had major surgery and when I think about that and think that about our public school system, our postal service, the social security administration and the "war on drugs" it makes me cringe to think what kind of neurosurgeon I might have gotten. When I needed complicated neurosurgery I got the best of the best in Atlanta.

tony286

07-20-2007 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth (Post 12792406)

Some of the greatest surgeons in the world are in countries with socialized medicine.As long as insurance companies main motive is profit, the system cant work because the main focus isnt the patient its the big bonus.United health cares chairmen was given a 500 million dollar bonus.

IllTestYourGirls

07-20-2007 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404 (Post 12792432)

And for what? Was it for scaring the hell everyone out of their money? It seems like in one breath they say we have the best health care ever and in the next breath everyone is coming down with and dying of everything :error

DaddyHalbucks

07-20-2007 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notabook (Post 12791633)

I'd much rather have government-ran healthcare than the shit we have now. Ideally I would like it not to be government-ran but paid for by the government through taxes and create a new entity to run it.

Be careful for what you wish for.

Set aside plenty of time to wait your turn to see the doctor.

Oh, and one more thing, get ready for much higher taxes.

:Oh crap

TheDoc

07-20-2007 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 12792582)

get ready for much higher taxes.

I'm all up for higher taxes to pay for this, as long as I can opt out and choose not to use their services. I don't want to pay for all the slime that already sucks the life out of this country, just another reason why people wouldn't have to work.

And it's not the immigrants people..

sacX	07-20-2007 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 12792582)

Be careful for what you wish for.

Set aside plenty of time to wait your turn to see the doctor.

Oh, and one more thing, get ready for much higher taxes.

:Oh crap

1. Many of these systems you can opt-out and have private insurance and have 0 waiti time.

2. These countries, eg. UK, Australia, New Zealand get better value for money than the US because they have a public system COMPETING with a private system, and their tax is no higher than the US.

dig420

07-20-2007 10:17 PM

and on a related note, brought to you by these wonderful small government conservatives:

GOODBYE FIFTH AMENDMENT!!!! Nice to know ya!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...70717-3.html?1

Private property? Not anymore!

GreyWolf

07-20-2007 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 12792582)

Oh, and one more thing, get ready for much higher taxes.

:Oh crap

Do you think all other UHC countries have higher taxes than the US? Nope. there are variations but little difference in overall taxation. Where there are noticeable differences, the govt is given back more direct to taxpayers in the form of other services.

When non-industrialized countries can provide full healthcare cover ranking that of the US for under $300/year/family including dentistry and maternity services - there may be something that does not add up?? :)

GreyWolf

07-20-2007 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacX (Post 12792622)

2. These countries, eg. UK, Australia, New Zealand get better value for money than the US because they have a public system COMPETING with a private system, and their tax is no higher than the US.

Correct sacX :thumbsup

notabook

07-20-2007 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks (Post 12792582)

Be careful for what you wish for.

Set aside plenty of time to wait your turn to see the doctor.

Oh, and one more thing, get ready for much higher taxes.

:Oh crap

That's funny. My aunt started to black out and had severe headaches and went to her doc. She has pretty good insurance through her company -- the doc was concerned about her blackouts and he referred her to a specialist where she would get a CT scan. The wait time for this?

Six weeks.

Six weeks waiting on a CT scan. Six fucking weeks, a month in a half of waiting. Keep in mind this is AMERICA. She could have (but thankfully didn't) had any number of deadly things wrong with her yet she had to wait six weeks to find out. If the wait times here are any indication, switching over to a government-sponsored or government-ran healthcare system doesn't seem bad at all.

As for the taxes... We currently pay twice as much as any other industrialized nation on healthcare and if life/death expectancies are any indicator for level of your countries health, most 1st world nations are doing a better job than we are at keeping their citizens alive. Furthermore, with insurance for all, medicine in this country would become preventative rather than just for treatment as it is currently in this country.

Porn Farmer

08-16-2007 06:59 AM

Surely universal healthcare would be better than the clusterfuck you Americans call a health'care' system:

Quote:

Man kisses ailing wife, hurls her from balcony

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (AP) -- A man threw his seriously ill wife four stories to her death because he could no longer afford to pay for her medical care, prosecutors said in charging him with second-degree murder.

According to court documents filed Wednesday in Jackson County Circuit Court, Stanley Reimer walked his wife to the balcony of their apartment and kissed her before throwing her over.

The body of Criste Reimer, 47, was found Tuesday night outside the apartment building, near the upscale Country Club Plaza shopping district.

Stanley Reimer, 51, was charged Wednesday. He remained jailed on $250,000 bond and was scheduled to be arraigned Thursday.

In the probable cause statement filed with the charges, police said Reimer was desperate because he could not pay the bills for his wife's treatment for neurological problems and uterine cancer.

Investigators said that Reimer was in the apartment when they arrived. He told them, "She didn't jump," but did not elaborate, they said.

Criste Reimer's caregiver told police she could barely walk and would not have been able to climb over the railing of the balcony, according to the probable cause statement.

Reimer's alleged motive emerged after several more hours of questioning, police said.

According to Jackson County Probate Court records, Criste Reimer had been in ill health for several years. Her weight had fallen to 75 pounds and she was partly blind.

According to the court records, she had no health insurance to pay for medical bills that ranged from $700 to $800 per week.

The Probate Court documents were filed in April, when Stanley Reimer petitioned to be allowed to sell personal property his wife owned in Wheeler County, Texas, for $20,000.

The documents listed her assets at approximately $6,700, with monthly income of $725 from oil royalties and Supplemental Security Income.

It was not immediately known if Stanley Reimer had an attorney.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/16/wif....ap/index.html

GAMEFINEST

08-16-2007 07:21 AM

Healthcare is expensive...unless you have a good job ...

jalami

08-16-2007 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 12791591)

Um just because government would PAY for heathcare doesn't mean it has to RUN it.

Exactly. Canada has a privately-run health care system, and the provincial governments run the insurance provider for the basic necessities. You also need to get private insurance for supplemental medical insurance (including prescription drugs which are much cheaper in Canada already) and dental.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:35 AM.

Page 2 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page