Why America and Americans are royally fucked!

[V_RocKs]

For a long time our economy has not been backed by gold, but then again, neither are the economies of many other nations. This allows the American government to print as much money as it wants to or needs to.

The United States Dollar has been declining in value for the last few years. It used to be that Canadian money required conversion to USD because of the extreme difference. Folks, that difference is so close most people in Canada do the calculation in their head.

Compared to the Euro the USD is royally fucked. In 2003 they traded evenly. Now the dollar is worth .75 Euros. That means if you could afford a $1,000,000 house in the US, you can only afford a $750,000 house in Europe.

Our dollar is even sliding against the Russian Rouble! Granted the Rouble still ain't worth shit but in 2003 a dollar bought roughly 31.5 roubles, now it is 25.5. That is a decline of 16%.

The only currency we are above is the Japanese Yen because of their own troubles.

Why don't news agencies report this info to you? Because if they did the owners of those agencies would lose a ton of money. Billionaires own the news agencies and if they accurately reported how fucked America is financially right now everyone would stop spending and hoard their money. That would put us into a huge recession and that in turn would devalue the stock market and the dollar further. And thus those billionaires would lose billions.

So they don't you... this spreads the decline over time. They don't go from billionaire to millionaire over night.

So why am I telling you this? I tell you this because other countries are getting fed up... Our gas price is up not because of hurricanes or Middle Eastern tension... it is up because our dollar is worth less so they have to charge us more for the gas. Your gas price will never go down until our economy improves.

Price of gas, set it to 5 years. Notice how it goes up along with the decline of the dollar since 2003.

War didn't drive up your gas price or it would have went down since Saddam was captured and hanged. It went up because your dollar is worth less to a middle easterner. When he goes to Europe on vacation with your dollar he is appalled at how little it pays for. So he charges you more for the oil.


Debt curve

Notice here what Clinton was doing... Making the debt swing back down... And then notice what Bush has been doing... Extreme rise in debt.

IF YOU VOTED FOR BUSH YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

Carry on...

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

IF YOU VOTED FOR BUSH YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

That's very true. Very true.......

[V_RocKs]

Ohh... The other point...

While we all were saddled with $30,000 of debt each, corporations that got Bush elected made a lot of rich people richer. Now you are thinking, well, they are in the same hell hole we are in right? Wrong!

They have been buying gold and silver and leaving us to play in the stock market. They have been investing in foreign corporations or just plane moving operations over to countries with better economies so that when we do fail, they are still extremely rich and can quickly convert their operations to handle the problem.

You have been sold out by republicans and the corporations that funded their rise to power.

[annomoterrace]

Bush just raped every man woman and child over his two terms. Who says, "Ahhh, this isn't so bad" when they are getting their ass raped?

[Kard63]

9/11 was the most devastating event in US history, not because people died, not because it caused us to create a unneeded war, not because we have to live in fear, but because it got that worthless cumstain re-elected as president.

[spunkmaster]

CLINTON INCREASED THE DEBT !

According to the debt statistics at the Office of Management and Budget, the national debt was $4.351 trillion prior to the first fiscal budget authorized by President Clinton in 1994. When he left office in 2001, the debt was $5.770 trillion at the end of that fiscal year.

[billybathgate]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

They have been buying gold and silver and leaving us to play in the stock market.

the stock market of late is all hype......... its in U.S. Dollars and it losing value also

[spunkmaster]

The benefits of the dollar's decline
Maintaining an overvalued dollar means missed opportunity for U.S. economy and manufacturing

By Josh Bivens

The value of the U.S. dollar as of July 1, 2003 had fallen by 9.1% since its peak in February 2002.1 The benefits of the falling dollar vastly outweigh the costs for the U.S. economy. The primary costs of the falling dollar are higher prices for imported goods and for American tourists traveling abroad. The primary benefit is increased price competitiveness of U.S. products, both for exports abroad as well as in the domestic market. The United States currently has an enormous trade deficit (importing more than it exports), which represents a significant drag on efforts to spur economic growth and create jobs, and has led to an accumulation of foreign debt that will have to be repaid in the future. Given this trade deficit, the benefits of greater international competitiveness prompted by the falling dollar greatly outweigh the costs.

This dollar decline has come largely in spite of the Bush Administration's stance in favor of a "strong dollar." The "strong dollar policy" (pursued by both the Clinton and Bush Administrations) has been deeply damaging to the U.S. economy, leading to significant job loss in the manufacturing sector and the accumulation of historically large trade deficits. This overvalued dollar policy should be reversed, and a larger (although orderly) decline in the dollar should be encouraged instead. In the long term, U.S. exchange rate policy should aim to avoid large trade deficits. This could be accomplished through international policy coordination that allows exchange rates to float within a flexible band, but prevents them from getting so overvalued that they generate large trade deficits.2


http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_bp140

[psili]

I'd move away from the US if I were any of you and start investing in African children, as that's the future of the world's economy: 1 grip of African children = 1.23 Euro / 2.25 quid, etc.

For me, I'll stay where I'm at in Colorado and ride the storm or go postal.

[Tom_PM]

I think it's more fair to say that while the debt may have increased under Clinton, nothing he did made it run wild. Like a couple billion a week for war etc.

[Humpy Leftnut]

Why don't news agencies report this info to you? Because if they did the owners of those agencies would lose a ton of money. Billionaires own the news agencies and if they accurately reported how fucked America is financially right now everyone would stop spending and hoard their money.

^-----------

Huh? There's entire networks of financial information on TV? You can see the dollar value every few minutes on TV?

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

CLINTON INCREASED THE DEBT !

According to the debt statistics at the Office of Management and Budget, the national debt was $4.351 trillion prior to the first fiscal budget authorized by President Clinton in 1994. When he left office in 2001, the debt was $5.770 trillion at the end of that fiscal year.

Did you actually look at the graph he posted or are you intellegence impaired?

some valid and interesting reading

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

..... leading to significant job loss in the manufacturing sector .....

That's funny... free trade... cheaper to manufacture outsite of the US and import... none of that has had anything to do with the job losses.

[GigoloMason]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

For a long time our economy has not been backed by gold, but then again, neither are the economies of many other nations. This allows the American government to print as much money as it wants to or needs to.

The United States Dollar has been declining in value for the last few years. It used to be that Canadian money required conversion to USD because of the extreme difference. Folks, that difference is so close most people in Canada do the calculation in their head.

Compared to the Euro the USD is royally fucked. In 2003 they traded evenly. Now the dollar is worth .75 Euros. That means if you could afford a $1,000,000 house in the US, you can only afford a $750,000 house in Europe.

Our dollar is even sliding against the Russian Rouble! Granted the Rouble still ain't worth shit but in 2003 a dollar bought roughly 31.5 roubles, now it is 25.5. That is a decline of 16%.

The only currency we are above is the Japanese Yen because of their own troubles.

Why don't news agencies report this info to you? Because if they did the owners of those agencies would lose a ton of money. Billionaires own the news agencies and if they accurately reported how fucked America is financially right now everyone would stop spending and hoard their money. That would put us into a huge recession and that in turn would devalue the stock market and the dollar further. And thus those billionaires would lose billions.

So they don't you... this spreads the decline over time. They don't go from billionaire to millionaire over night.

So why am I telling you this? I tell you this because other countries are getting fed up... Our gas price is up not because of hurricanes or Middle Eastern tension... it is up because our dollar is worth less so they have to charge us more for the gas. Your gas price will never go down until our economy improves.

Price of gas, set it to 5 years. Notice how it goes up along with the decline of the dollar since 2003.

War didn't drive up your gas price or it would have went down since Saddam was captured and hanged. It went up because your dollar is worth less to a middle easterner. When he goes to Europe on vacation with your dollar he is appalled at how little it pays for. So he charges you more for the oil.


Debt curve

Notice here what Clinton was doing... Making the debt swing back down... And then notice what Bush has been doing... Extreme rise in debt.

IF YOU VOTED FOR BUSH YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

Carry on...

You 'sho do have a lot to learn about the currency market.

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Did you actually look at the graph he posted or are you intellegence impaired?

Did you actually look at the graph, cause it shows exactly what he said Clinton did.

"CLINTON INCREASED THE DEBT !

According to the debt statistics at the Office of Management and Budget, the national debt was $4.351 trillion prior to the first fiscal budget authorized by President Clinton in 1994. When he left office in 2001, the debt was $5.770 trillion at the end of that fiscal year."

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Did you actually look at the graph, cause it shows exactly what he said Clinton did.

"CLINTON INCREASED THE DEBT !

According to the debt statistics at the Office of Management and Budget, the national debt was $4.351 trillion prior to the first fiscal budget authorized by President Clinton in 1994. When he left office in 2001, the debt was $5.770 trillion at the end of that fiscal year."

The point is. That in the original post it was never said that Clinton didn't raise the debt. He was simply trying to deflect attention away from what Clinton actually did in comparison to Bush.. Guess I took the bait.. bad me.

But then you're a moron anyway who only sees what he wants to see and it doesn't extend beyond your next beer or bong hit.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Did you actually look at the graph, cause it shows exactly what he said Clinton did.

"CLINTON INCREASED THE DEBT !

According to the debt statistics at the Office of Management and Budget, the national debt was $4.351 trillion prior to the first fiscal budget authorized by President Clinton in 1994. When he left office in 2001, the debt was $5.770 trillion at the end of that fiscal year."

And the debt is now at nearly 9 trillion dollars. Bush has almost doubled our debt in less than 7 years.

[tony286]

you have great points.

[Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Did you actually look at the graph, cause it shows exactly what he said Clinton did.

"CLINTON INCREASED THE DEBT !

According to the debt statistics at the Office of Management and Budget, the national debt was $4.351 trillion prior to the first fiscal budget authorized by President Clinton in 1994. When he left office in 2001, the debt was $5.770 trillion at the end of that fiscal year."

did you not look close to the graph? sure debt rose for clinton, but for the $1.419 trillion it rose for clinton, it rose about $10 trillion for both bush's hmmmm?

[pocketkangaroo]

Fiscal Conservatives

[stickyfingerz]

Originally Posted by Tempest

The point is. That in the original post it was never said that Clinton didn't raise the debt. He was simply trying to deflect attention away from what Clinton actually did in comparison to Bush.. Guess I took the bait.. bad me.

But then you're a moron anyway who only sees what he wants to see and it doesn't extend beyond your next beer or bong hit.

lol I dont drink at home, and havent had a bong hit in weeks, but carry on with accusing people of not examining the information, when it was actually you that didnt.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

...but carry on with accusing people of not examining the information, when it was actually you that didnt.

Reading comprehension and understanding complicated issues has never been a strong suit of Bush supporters. Nice to see you provide further proof of that.

[Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Reading comprehension and understanding complicated issues has never been a strong suit of Bush supporters. Nice to see you provide further proof of that.

[V_RocKs]

What a lot of this an local financial problems boil down to is that no one can run a country for 4 years and be expected to fix it.

Yes, the debt DID increase under Clinton's administration. But if you look at the graph you will see the rate at which it is increasing is declining. Then when Bush takes office it sky rockets out of control.

Had Clinton stayed president for 8 more years we would have seen the trend move down.

What happened when we finally hit a surplus of money in the Gov't coffers? George Bush issued everyone a check... Fucking amazing... He had a chance to turn what was then $26,000 individually into $24,000 and instead he gave the money to you. Then increased spending... Making the new number $30,000...

What did he teach Americans? He taught them that if you owe $4,000 on your credit cards and receive a windfall of $2,000, spend it on luxuries and continue to spend more on the cards too... Fuck it, run them up to $6,000....

And to the fellow that says I don't understand currency... I think the example I just gave you says a lot about the current state of America...

You are thinking... But to grow a company you can increase debt.... Yes, you can... I can buy 100 domains on my credit card for $700. Develop them and make $3000 a month. In this case I borrowed to increase my own ability to make more wealth.

This isn't what Bush is doing... He is the consumer who is buying bullshit and needs to learn to stop before he claims bankruptcy. We are not borrowing to build wealthy prospects, we are borrowing to make life easier now without any regard to what it will be like 10 years from now.

It is much like a college kid running up his credit cards instead of getting a job. It is ok for a year or two but will fuck him over for the next 7 to 10 years when he defaults on them or claims bankruptcy.

[JD]

when this bitch DOES go up in flames I'll be the first guy popping caps in my neighbors for their shit.

[D]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Did you actually look at the graph, cause it shows exactly what he said Clinton did.

"CLINTON INCREASED THE DEBT !

According to the debt statistics at the Office of Management and Budget, the national debt was $4.351 trillion prior to the first fiscal budget authorized by President Clinton in 1994. When he left office in 2001, the debt was $5.770 trillion at the end of that fiscal year."

Link or site your source, please.... so that it may be scrutinized.

Everything I've read - and I've read more than most on the subject - has lauded Clinton's term for paying down the debt in record amounts. He was an economist, and reportedly took his reigns on the country's economy seriously.

Here's one such example - centerpiecing an unedited graph taken from the White House archives - as a percentage of the GNP:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Your quoted statement sounds like blatant propaganda to me, as it stands.

[V_RocKs]

Originally Posted by D

Link or site your source, please.... so that it may be scrutinized.

Everything I've read - and I've read more than most on the subject - has lauded Clinton's term for paying down the debt in record amounts. He was an economist, and reportedly took his reigns on the country's economy seriously.

Here's one such example - centerpiecing an unedited graph taken from the White House archives - as a percentage of the GNP:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Your quoted statement sounds like blatant propaganda to me, as it stands.

What the other guy wasn't taking into account was that the GDP was also increasing. So Clinton was doing what I was saying he was doing... Spending money to make more money. Bush is spending money to make people who are rich, super rich.

[2012]

things change ... powers shift .... at least we partied like it was 1999 in 1999 ...

dude, didn't anyone tell you?

The US will be the GLOBAL SUPER DUPER POWER for the rest of fucking eternity ....

Fuck history... watch tv.

[Cyrano]

That is exactly why I buy gold bullion, fuck fractional-reserve banking.

[Porn Farmer]

The left spend public money on health, education and welfare.

The right spend public money on war.

Where would you rather your tax dollar go?

[V_RocKs]

I'd rather it stay here in America...

[The Duck]

The american government does not print money, the private corporation the federal reserve does. Then the government lend this money from the federal reserve, your income taxes are paying the interest on this lent money. SUCKERS.

[Kevsh]

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

The left spend public money on health, education and welfare.

The right spend public money on war.

Where would you rather your tax dollar go?

... and what % of Americans voted solely based on party?
That's a big problem: People only see red/blue, so regardless what a clusterfuck Bush is, the good' ole Republican South just couldn't bring themselves to vote for the willy-nilly, weak-kneed Democrats.

And now you're stuck with perhaps the worst presidential administration in history for at least another year. It would be funny how incompetent Bush & co. are if they weren't fucking people's lives up outside the USA as well...

[Wizzo]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

That is exactly why I buy gold bullion, fuck fractional-reserve banking.

You should buy enriched plutonium... It's the new gold...

[Red Ezra]

shit - now i am so depressed i cant even work - going to bed now - bleh

[zeruel]

is it generally? glad im not american...

[Nikki_Licks]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

For a long time our economy has not been backed by gold, but then again, neither are the economies of many other nations. This allows the American government to print as much money as it wants to or needs to.

The United States Dollar has been declining in value for the last few years. It used to be that Canadian money required conversion to USD because of the extreme difference. Folks, that difference is so close most people in Canada do the calculation in their head.

Compared to the Euro the USD is royally fucked. In 2003 they traded evenly. Now the dollar is worth .75 Euros. That means if you could afford a $1,000,000 house in the US, you can only afford a $750,000 house in Europe.

Our dollar is even sliding against the Russian Rouble! Granted the Rouble still ain't worth shit but in 2003 a dollar bought roughly 31.5 roubles, now it is 25.5. That is a decline of 16%.

The only currency we are above is the Japanese Yen because of their own troubles.

Why don't news agencies report this info to you? Because if they did the owners of those agencies would lose a ton of money. Billionaires own the news agencies and if they accurately reported how fucked America is financially right now everyone would stop spending and hoard their money. That would put us into a huge recession and that in turn would devalue the stock market and the dollar further. And thus those billionaires would lose billions.

So they don't you... this spreads the decline over time. They don't go from billionaire to millionaire over night.

So why am I telling you this? I tell you this because other countries are getting fed up... Our gas price is up not because of hurricanes or Middle Eastern tension... it is up because our dollar is worth less so they have to charge us more for the gas. Your gas price will never go down until our economy improves.

Price of gas, set it to 5 years. Notice how it goes up along with the decline of the dollar since 2003.

War didn't drive up your gas price or it would have went down since Saddam was captured and hanged. It went up because your dollar is worth less to a middle easterner. When he goes to Europe on vacation with your dollar he is appalled at how little it pays for. So he charges you more for the oil.


Debt curve

Notice here what Clinton was doing... Making the debt swing back down... And then notice what Bush has been doing... Extreme rise in debt.

IF YOU VOTED FOR BUSH YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

Carry on...

Very well said

The government continues to monetarily rape us Americans and the world. It's really noting to be proud of.

Bush is a fucking lying dirt bag [Bush is the only president we have had that can't form a complete sentence without a teleprompter]

I honestly can not wait until this worthless bastard is out of office

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Tempest

The point is. That in the original post it was never said that Clinton didn't raise the debt. He was simply trying to deflect attention away from what Clinton actually did in comparison to Bush.. Guess I took the bait.. bad me.

But then you're a moron anyway who only sees what he wants to see and it doesn't extend beyond your next beer or bong hit.

[Nikki_Licks]

Originally Posted by kandah

The american government does not print money, the private corporation the federal reserve does. Then the government lend this money from the federal reserve, your income taxes are paying the interest on this lent money. SUCKERS.

True

[Minopop]

now im not jumping to the US's defence or anything, im just pointing out that you havnt really said why the economy is on the decline? ???
or why the US is fucked?

the economy is growing and unemployment is low, but you mentioned the exchange rate? i mean WTF has that got to do with anything?

ok so it sucks if your a tourist

but the exchange rate is relative.... it now means that things in the US are cheaper!!! thats right... and you know what happens then... other countries buy more of it... look at china... a low exchange rate is doing wonders for their economy no one can doubt that.

i think letting the USD slip against europe is the best thing for the economy! look at europe.... they generally are reporting the lowest economic growth in years, unemployment is rising.... and they alll 'love' the euro? most fucking hate it! france, italy to name a few are trying to ditch it, but they cant legally, they can never get back their old currencies because they are tied to the euro, a strong euro is killing their economy

but i think if you are a tourist its better for you, for the first time in my life im actually thinking about coming to the US christ everythings so cheap now! = so you guys can beg for my aussie dollars

[King Adam]

America is fucked in so many ways, its sad. People should be either saving money to sit on or getting out of town. I have seriously considered making the move to another country. Italy is #1 on my list.

[drjones]

Maybe its all part of Bushes master plan to devalue the dollar so much, that border jumping from Mexico becomes pointless.. its his immigration plan!! :