AVI vs. WMV vs MOV vs. SWF vs MP4 vs. MPEG - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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#1

AVI vs. WMV vs MOV vs. SWF vs MP4 vs. MPEG

07-10-2007, 11:03 PM

I am re-designing my video section and author my site using MAC - since I am not a pC user I need to know what surfers, and users are wanting when they visit a site - Quicktime, Windows Media Player WMV, DiVX/AVI, MPEG/MP4, or FLASH/SWF video feeds? I put them all thru the paces and AVI wins everytime, Quicktime is second, MPEG third, everything else after that about the same...

AVI is smooth and detailed visually with no stutters, file size is excellent for the quality. I know the bad end of this is the fact that all the torrent sites use AVI files.

Windows Media Player is used a lot I see out there but more than half the time i try to download something WMV is stalls or strobes, choppy, etc - same with Flash.

Feedback appreciated as it will most certainly be considered while going thru these growing pains of site re-design.
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#2

07-10-2007, 11:11 PM

When you say "AVI" do you mean divx/xvid? An AVI file can use just about any codec (eg DV, RGB raw, motionjpeg, mpeg4 divx), the AVI spec is just a container for proprietary data...

Just wanted to make that clear in case you didn't realise.
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#3

07-10-2007, 11:18 PM

AVI means DiVX to me yeah
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#4

07-10-2007, 11:23 PM

You left out the new big one .flv players will soon all be able to play .flv videos, youtube and google video, and myspace all the tube sites use .flv. It will be the standard soon, and really somewhat is already.
That may be what you meant by .swf, but they are different.
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Red Ezra

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#5

07-10-2007, 11:26 PM

I have the capability of making flv - I will look into it.
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#6

07-11-2007, 12:28 PM

wow i figured this thread might get a little play - morning bump
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#7

07-11-2007, 12:37 PM

I say .flv too we just took that decission a few weeks ago too

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#8

07-11-2007, 12:53 PM

Not that I know much about video codecs/editing, but arent things starting to shift towards H.264?

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Red Ezra

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#9

07-11-2007, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by drjones

Not that I know much about video codecs/editing, but arent things starting to shift towards H.264?

this is actually why i started asking about this - i thought the same thing about h.264 but people tell me something different everytime - by looking into it i have discovered how nice divx looks with great compression, but the fact that flv is coming on strong it might make sense to do that too or instead.
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#10

07-11-2007, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Red Ezra

this is actually why i started asking about this - i thought the same thing about h.264 but people tell me something different everytime - by looking into it i have discovered how nice divx looks with great compression, but the fact that flv is coming on strong it might make sense to do that too or instead.

97% of all computers can play flash I think was last stats I saw. That should tell ya right there.
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#11

07-11-2007, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

97% of all computers can play flash I think was last stats I saw. That should tell ya right there.

Yep, have to agree its pretty much platform standard across the board with no download needed. Divx requires a download and lacks support for the growing market share of the MAC platform.

FLV gets my vote.

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#12

07-11-2007, 03:13 PM

if people cant download and they buy memberships your going to have lots of pissed off people.
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#13

07-11-2007, 03:22 PM

I plan to at least offer ipod downloads - I like flash too - my main concern is the pc user and what they expect or want
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#14

07-11-2007, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by tony404

if people cant download and they buy memberships your going to have lots of pissed off people.

shhhhhh........
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#15

07-11-2007, 04:03 PM

MPEG4 yo.

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#16

07-11-2007, 05:06 PM

Use flv for videos with small enough bitrates for the average users connection won't choke, or drop frames. As the bitrate of your videos increases, you need to move to a H.264, or a WMV format. For example our 1280x720 at ~4000Kbps videos would be horrible canidate for flv.

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#17

07-12-2007, 03:29 AM

We are doing everything high quality Divx now. http://stage6.divx.com/ check the quality here and tell me if this isnt the sexist thing since Boy Alley in a thong.

Plus you can link to the divx codec on a ref code and 1 in 50 times get an upsell!
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#18

07-12-2007, 05:46 AM

i realy hate qicktime amd real media files

divx/xivd is my first
mpeg is my second
and wmv is 3rd

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#19

07-12-2007, 06:07 AM

keep an eye on silverlight. you'll be able to seamlessly embed HD video using VC-1, which is the same codec used by HDDVD and blu-ray so the quality is superb.
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#20

07-12-2007, 06:29 AM

We do encoding for many large programs.

Most popular now is FLV because you only need one format.

Other suggestions

Hybrid MP4 - Works on PSP ipod AND Quicktime/Windows Media Player.
MPEG-1 (some member always asks for it)
Apple TV MP4 (just because it's cool)

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#21

07-13-2007, 04:34 AM

I suggest WMV

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#22

07-13-2007, 05:48 AM

So what's the verdict?

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Red Ezra

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#23

07-13-2007, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Brad Gosse

We do encoding for many large programs.

Most popular now is FLV because you only need one format.

Other suggestions

Hybrid MP4 - Works on PSP ipod AND Quicktime/Windows Media Player.
MPEG-1 (some member always asks for it)
Apple TV MP4 (just because it's cool)

what is hybrid mode for mp4? setting when I author? I will look for this - I thought apple tv was the same as ipod - will have to look into this as well.
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#24

07-13-2007, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Blue Player

We are doing everything high quality Divx now. http://stage6.divx.com/ check the quality here and tell me if this isnt the sexist thing since Boy Alley in a thong.

Plus you can link to the divx codec on a ref code and 1 in 50 times get an upsell!

yeah I'm all over this - divx is top of my love list
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#25

07-13-2007, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by ClevelandSlim

So what's the verdict?

~Slim~

divx and mp4 for ipos/apple tv - but, if I can figure an easy way to use flv without having to make a video player everytime then flv too - if anyone has a good flv player that can embed into the page let me know where to grab it - all the free ones I see have ads on them or logos.
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#26

07-16-2007, 10:05 AM

At the current bandwidths most internet users are using, flv should be the best choice considering both quality and speed.
If you are looking for a professional flv player with great security and features, check out mediaconductor.com

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#27

07-16-2007, 10:09 AM

For surfers, I think FLV is the way to go.

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#28

07-16-2007, 02:32 PM

I'm with you Divx

However I've been playing with mpg2 out of FCP6 for hd .. and it's looking damn fine .. plays no porblem with mediaplayer 9

But for me it's about delivery to the client then the surfer

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#29

07-16-2007, 03:48 PM

Whats one of the most popular FLV converters that people are using? I've been playing with Riva VX and I was curious is any other encoder/player are better.

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#30

07-16-2007, 06:14 PM

u should go with .flv if u are redisigning

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#31

07-16-2007, 06:46 PM

So many of you are recommending flv, but is it the surfers that are clammoring for that, or are program owners just interested in the newer formats in video? I still find that most surfers prefer wmv or even mpeg-1, although quicktime has become more popular as of late.

Xvid/Divx requires a codec download so, although it can look great, that is a potential customer service hassle.

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#32

07-16-2007, 06:53 PM

For members areas (downloads) - wmv and mpg4
for galleries mpg1 and wmv
for tour videos flv

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#33

07-16-2007, 06:56 PM

http://www.pornusers.com/replies_view.html?id=1880

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#34

07-16-2007, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by chodadog

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I wonder how many of them would vote for flash if you said "the same as youtube and google video, and myspace, etc etc use"
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#35

07-16-2007, 07:19 PM

flash is becoming the new standard.

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#36

07-16-2007, 07:31 PM

Normal surfers seem to get upset about not being able to download flv. No it isn't that difficult but for the normal surfer it is difficult unless you put a link for them.

Then they get upset because they don't have anything on their PC that can play it without finding more software. MOST surfers have PC's, not MACs, so wmv still makes more sense. And the encoder/player is free.

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Red Ezra

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#37

07-16-2007, 07:50 PM

I have decided to include wmv files - it's not that big a deal to include it but only for download - no streaming - this way i can afford to do better resolution for members who want this format. I understand the reason behind flash video but paying members want to download, so I have to let them if I want happy members - I think my affiliates will appreciate that as well.
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#38

07-16-2007, 07:53 PM

We use them all...

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#39

07-16-2007, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by stickyfingerz

I wonder how many of them would vote for flash if you said "the same as youtube and google video, and myspace, etc etc use"

My point was that WMV is still king and you'd be crazy not to offer it as your main format. I've said it many times, though: give your members choice. WMV, FLV, DivX, QuickTime and MPEG. Those are the only formats worth considering and WMV is absolutely essential if you want your members to stick around because most expect it and most want it.

But the more options you can offer them (whether it be formats, bit rates, clips/full-length), the better.

26 + 6 = 1
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#40

07-16-2007, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by chodadog

My point was that WMV is still king and you'd be crazy not to offer it as your main format. I've said it many times, though: give your members choice. WMV, FLV, DivX, QuickTime and MPEG. Those are the only formats worth considering and WMV is absolutely essential if you want your members to stick around because most expect it and most want it.

But the more options you can offer them (whether it be formats, bit rates, clips/full-length), the better.

Im doing this.

Flv theater with a play list they can click through each vid. 640x360

Streaming and download 480p .wmv 854x480

Downloadable 720p .wmv 1280x720

And Ipod downloads.

Keep in mind this is on HD sites.

Dvd type content on our sites just 720x480 and 320x240 Streaming and downloadable on both. and Flash at 320x240.
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#41

07-16-2007, 08:13 PM

FLV is rockin these days.

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#42

07-16-2007, 10:00 PM

I offer mostly WMV's Ipod, my cam archive plugins are all flv
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#43

07-16-2007, 10:58 PM

Which programs convert to ipod format? I'd love to know more about it.

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#44

07-17-2007, 12:19 AM

All our videos come in two formats, one for instant streaming for which we use FLVs, and one for downloading the HD videos, for which we use WMVs.

If you do Flash I highly recommend investing in the Flash Media Server because then members can watch the FLVs in real-time stream so there's no downloading to cache (as in "progressive download") and users can fast forward and rewind to any point at any time without waiting.

Very sweet actually, our members love it.

Windows Media (WMV) has really improved over the past few years. Compared to MPEG2 you should see some noticeable improvements in file size and quality. Be sure you'll encode using WMV9 codec (Advanced profile not necessary).

WMVs can be played by MAC users as well as long as they have FLIP4MAC.

H.264 is MPEG4 and it's what Quicktime files are based on (short, generalized explanation of course). Looks good but can't be played by Windows Media Player which is what most regular users on the web using a PC uses. Encoding tends to be slower compared to WMV encoding but this may depend on your system.

Personally I stay away from DIVX and other formats that require most users to download additional plugins or software. Most users already have Flash and Windows Media Player (or VLan or Media Player Classic) and are all set.

Hope this helps a little

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#45

07-17-2007, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by uno

Which programs convert to ipod format? I'd love to know more about it.

Here's a free program that's a dirty little secret because it converts nearly everything, including to (and from) the ipod format. Called SUPER by eRightsoft.

I'm not associated with them in any way and don't vouch for problem free use of the program but I never had issues with it. Besides converting to ipod/zune/cell phone formats it does a good job with MPEGs. WMV is outdated tho.
http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html#Dnload

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#46

07-17-2007, 03:16 AM

For members areas (downloads) - wmv and mpg4
for galleries mpg1 and wmv
for tour videos flv

there ya go

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#47

07-17-2007, 03:27 AM

This is to funny, I ran a poll in my members area for 4 months asking what format they wanted to see on the site. I also had it on my blog. By reading this I can tell no one is really going with what the customer wants

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#48

07-17-2007, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by Hookers and School Girls

This is to funny, I ran a poll in my members area for 4 months asking what format they wanted to see on the site. I also had it on my blog. By reading this I can tell no one is really going with what the customer wants

that's what made me start this thread was a member asking for windows media files - so what are they looking for according to your poll?
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#49

07-17-2007, 03:49 AM

Originally posted by Red Ezra

Windows Media Player is used a lot I see out there but more than half the time i try to download something WMV is stalls or strobes, choppy, etc - same with Flash.

If you're playing high bit rate .wmv files on a Mac they WILL stall, sputter, and choke. Likewaise if you play a high bit rate .mov on a PC it will also stall. Windows Media is better on Windows and Quicktime is better on Mac. BTW the Windows Media Player for Mac sucks. You need flip4mac.

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#50

07-17-2007, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by Hookers and School Girls

This is to funny, I ran a poll in my members area for 4 months asking what format they wanted to see on the site. I also had it on my blog. By reading this I can tell no one is really going with what the customer wants

We also conducted a poll on our site. Customers had a choice between wmv or mov. Results were as follows.

wmv 74.8%
mov 18.4%
Undecided 7.5%

Personally I think mov is better but these results were pretty decisive in the opposite direction. 32% even said they would stop buying our videos if we switched to mov. We're forced to go with wmv. Considering our videos are as much as 1 GB per file multiple formats is not an option.

Their reasons for chosing wmv over mov:

17.1% I already have the Windows Media Player and I'm too lazy to get the free Quicktime player.
16.3% I believe it will not play well on my computer.
34.1% I think Windows Media has better quality.
12.4% I hate Apple products.
16.3% Irrelevant question because I prefer Quicktime.

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