Ray Guhn?s Arrest and pending Censorship of the Adult Industry

[Jimatcohf]

If you have anything to do whatsoever with the adult industry, you will want to read this entire post. I am making this post to offer my view and to update our industry on the latest news of the arrest of Ray Guhn and several members of the www.cumonherface.com and www.cashtitans.com team and how it can affect you. For those that are not aware of the arrests, here are the links to those articles http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?i...ing=ray%20guhn and http://www.xbiz.com/news_piece.php?i...ing=ray%20guhn

Most of you know me as Jim Manley or Big Jim. For those of you trying to picture who I am here is the most memorable pic of me brought to you by JFK http://www.fubarwebmasters.com/curre...pbp/z02847.htm now that was a great night and memory that I will cherish forever.

Ok, first, I am not really able to comment on the facts of the case only to say that Ray Guhn?s legal team will be fighting these charges aggressively as long as the money holds out. Ray has retained the legal team of Weston, Garrou, DeWitt & Walters. The well known and respected Larry Walters plans to spearhead a vigorous 1st amendment defense as you can imagine. Now please carefully read this next part. The predicate on which Ray Guhn and associates are charged can seriously impact how YOU as webmasters, producers, hosting companies, affiliates, and pay site owners will be permitted, or not permitted, to conduct your business in the future. The cops are claiming that paying people to perform sexually on camera is prostitution and therefore illegal. If the prosecution wins the Ray Guhn case in Florida it will have the chilling effect of setting precedent of illegalizing porn production throughout Florida which in turn will eagerly be used by other states anxious to squelch free expression to justify filing suits or applying pressure against webmasters, producers, hosters, affiliates and site owners who engage in showing ?paid performers engaging in sex while being photographed or videotaped or on webcam?.

1) Why the charge of Racketeering? As mentioned, the cops assert that compensating people who perform in, or produce, adult sexual content is prostitution and that any parties earning an income derived from activity based on prostitution is Racketeering (which carries up to 30 years in jail). The 2nd predicate they are using is an Obscenity charge, ie: that COHF content is stronger content than Pensacola community standards allow, even though you can walk into dozens of stores in Pensacola and purchase many different porn mags showing detailed glossy images of group sex, anal sex, triple penetration, bondage sex, dildo sex, lesbian strap on sex, oral sex, cum swapping and oral/facial cumshots. But we all know how vague the obscenity law is, depending on your locale a girl posing nude could be considered obscene by a conservative jury.

2) Don?t believe everything you read in the papers, the guns they seized at Ray?s home were all legally owned along with a weapons permit and the ?drugs? were only one medication type legally prescribed by licensed physicians. But it made for a sensational byline in the article.

3) It?s Election year here. So the stronger the headlines, the better, as far as the guys running for reelection are concerned.

I really can?t comment more on the case but after reading some of the posts when this story broke on GFY and other boards I wanted to clear up a few confused posters who poked fun at this situation without understanding how THIS CASE is the landmark case that many in the adult industry have been fearing for years. Grave consequences will occur first in Florida and next industry wide if the prosecution prevails in reclassifying porn performers and actors? as prostitutes. If performers are reclassified as prostitutes, smart money says the law will next move to classify people like YOU who webmaster, produce, host, manage, or resell that ?illegal? content as criminals and racketeers. (remember, racketeering carries up to 30 years in jail!).

Attorney Larry Walters has set up a legal defense fund for this fight. I am asking everyone to donate to this fund, not just to help defend Ray and myself, but also to preserve our adult internet industry as we currently know it. This case is already creating expenditures in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and honestly guys we need industry financial help from our friends, associates, fellow businessmen and industry moguls to win this battle... for all of us. Please donate directly to Larry Walter?s firm at: www.RayGuhnDefenseFund.com NONE of the donations go to Ray, myself or COHF.
I can only hope that the generosity (and sense of self preservation) of our industry will shine in this moment of darkness and contributions will flow in to assist defending against these charges. Please read this article concerning this case as it was posted on AVN http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=270764 I hope that after reading this you will understand that this is much more than just another case against a few guys in Florida, but rather it is a veiled legal attempt to begin the process of outlawing all porn production not only in Florida, but eventually reaching across the country.

www.RayGuhnDefenseFund.com

On a personal note I wish to thank the industry for their support and emails and phone calls and im?s about this situation. I am truly grateful of everyone?s concern. I now understand what it means to be at the bottom of the barrel as I have lost everything, my job, my income and for the few that knew I had a daughter as of now the state has ended my rights to see her, so again if you don?t think this case is important for those of you who have children, please imagine not being able to see them again simply because you operated or worked for an adult business. If you think for one second it can?t happen to you as I did, WELL IT CAN! I am not sure if I will stay in the adult industry after all this is over. I have to consider the options and what I might have to do to regain custody of my daughter. I would like to talk to anyone that might need a general manager type, employee or sales rep to weigh my options. I will consider all offers as I have stated before I have no income and my savings is almost gone.

I will respond as I can to the replies of this thread I ask that it be bumped quite regularly if possible to keep this subject fresh in the minds of all webmasters.

Thank you in advance for your donations (www.RayGuhnDefenseFund.com) and emotional support and let?s ALL hope that when the sun sets Ray Guhn and his legal team?s fight to preserve our 1st Amendment freedoms for the adult industry are successful. Truth and the 1st amendment are on our side. The best 1st amendment team in the country is on the case, but the effort needs donations now to the legal fund to avoid being railroaded into a defeat that will shake the foundation of the adult industry.

Andy Craft aka Jim Manley
My old email is now gone so if you have it please delete and use [email protected] that is also my msn name and my ICQ # is 318490299

[BoyAlley]

I'll be making a donation by the end of the week. I hope others do as well.

This is one worth helping to fight for guys, step up to the plate!

[mikesouth]

good to read a statement from ya jim...I cautione3d people not to make too much of the weapons, drugs and rico stuff, I wish y'all the best and I for one will donate.

Thanks again and hit me up if I can somehow help.

[Jimatcohf]

Boy alley many thanks for being the first to step up, I seriously thank you.

[Jimatcohf]

Thanks Mike, I might be coming to Atlanta soon if so maybe we can sit down and talk, and thanks for the pledge to donate.

[SiMpLe]

Thats a great post and explains alot.

[MaddCaz]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I'll be making a donation by the end of the week. I hope others do as well.

This is one worth helping to fight for guys, step up to the plate!

[tony286]

Why did you guys work in one of the most uptight places in florida? You made enough to produce anywhere in the world.

[Doctor Dre]

Bump. The situation you guys are in sounds awfull... I'm glad to be in canada right now.

[pornguy]

I will donate as soon as I get paid by a few different reps. Remember guys even 10$ is not to little.

[Jimatcohf]

Hey can someone ask a GFY mod if i can get this thread stickied for a day or 2, I lost all my emails when they siezed my computer.

[Malicious Biz]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I'll be making a donation by the end of the week. I hope others do as well.

This is one worth helping to fight for guys, step up to the plate!

classy move

this thread should be stickied!

[JD]

i'll send what I can man. Good luck and I hope for us all that you hear "Not Guilty"

edit: if you set up an epass account I'm sure more people will donate

[directfiesta]

Call or email us for donations via credit card or Paypal.

If you had the addy there ( Epass also, I am sure they would setup a free account for this ), you would have recived from me a few $$$.

I hope you guys get vindicated.

[BoyAlley]

Hopefully this will help to raise a few bucks too:

Via GoFuckYourself.com
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=637456

Via GFY.com
https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/637456-buy-boyalleys-sig-august-money-donated.html

Via GFYBoard.com
http://www.gfyboard.com/showthread.php?t=637456

[Brad Mitchell]

Hi Jim,

Wishing you strength during this, the darkest hour. I think a donation is fitting, will definitely do that at some point and hope that everyone else participates and understands the seriousness of this legal action.

I do have one question, however, and ask it sincerely because I truly don't know the answer. Shane has charges, too, but I don't see any mention of support for his legal defense? Is everyone being charged and prosecuted seperately?

Brad

[mikesouth]

Jim Id very much like to sit down with ya...Ray and I go way back and if I can come up with anything that might help y'all I will.


hit me up...you know how

[xanx]

He hands down hired the best firm for this. I hope Larry kicks the shit out of them! I will be donating even though it won't be much cause I'm kinda broke

[slapass]

Setting up to send money. Just an idea but an epassport account might be easier for folks to give to.

Good luck with this.

[czarina]

geez, things are getting bad in the US! That blows (excuse my French!)

[SomeCreep]

If Ray Guhn and crew did everything by the book (i.e. kept accounting records, legal documents, model releases, etc), I think you guys will have no problem winning this battle. As you mentioned though, it will just be a long and costly battle.

[Jimatcohf]

Guys ill talk with the legal team tommorow about setting up an epass acct, if anyone from epass wants to email me what needs to be done ill start to work on this if the Atty's give the green light.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by tony404

Why did you guys work in one of the most uptight places in florida? You made enough to produce anywhere in the world.

The 1st amendment should apply to anyone, anywhere in the country. We shouldn't be forced to live somewhere we don't want to live just because the local bible thumpers don't like what we do.
They have freedom to practice their ass-backwards religions, and we have freedom of sexual expression. If two consenting adults agree to have sex and let someone film it that's nobody else's business. (remember they're not being paid to have sex, they're being paid to allow someone to film them having sex....BIG DIFFERENCE)

You want someone telling you that you can't film your wife giving you a blowjob because the sheriff in Atlanta doesn't like it? It's a free country, not just a free Los Angeles or a free west coast.

BTW we'll be making a significant contribution to the defense fund next month.

[pocketkangaroo]

I will be happy to donate as well. I just want to make sure you guys are going to fight this and not plea out.

[JD]

sent this thread to SPANNOW for possible sticky

Jim,
Thanks for the explanation. I have been crossing my fingers for you and the rest of the team. The situation you have been placed in isn't one that anybody would ever want to endure. Please let me know when the epass is setup.. I also have a few dollars in Paypal I can spare.
Cheers and if you need anything, please give me a shout.
-Sherm

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

The 1st amendment should apply to anyone, anywhere in the country. We shouldn't be forced to live somewhere we don't want to live just because the local bible thumpers don't like what we do.
They have freedom to practice their ass-backwards religions, and we have freedom of sexual expression. If two consenting adults agree to have sex and let someone film it that's nobody else's business. (remember they're not being paid to have sex, they're being paid to allow someone to film them having sex....BIG DIFFERENCE)

You want someone telling you that you can't film your wife giving you a blowjob because the sheriff in Atlanta doesn't like it? It's a free country, not just a free Los Angeles or a free west coast.

BTW we'll be making a significant contribution to the defense fund next month.

Sorry in reality world where I live, you don't shoot porn in places where its illegal to buy adult movies. Sorry the its not fair defense doesn't work. Their choosing to work where its not cool to produce adult content has put us all in jeopardy. You dont understand because you dont produce content. Florida was a great place to shoot and now thats going to be over.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by tony404

Sorry in reality world where I live, you don't shoot porn in places where its illegal to buy adult movies. Sorry the its not fair defense doesn't work. Their choosing to work where its not cool to produce adult content has put us all in jeopardy. You dont understand because you dont produce content. Florida was a great place to shoot and now thats going to be over.

Well we'll find out when the case goes to trial.

Nice to see that you're on the government's side and blaming the victim of a bible thumping prosecutor who apparently doesn't have enough real criminals to go after.

[JD]

back to the top!

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Jimatcohf

The cops are claiming that paying people to perform sexually on camera is prostitution and therefore illegal. If the prosecution wins the Ray Guhn case in Florida it will have the chilling effect of setting precedent of illegalizing porn production throughout Florida which in turn will eagerly be used by other states anxious to squelch free expression to justify filing suits or applying pressure against webmasters, producers, hosters, affiliates and site owners who engage in showing ?paid performers engaging in sex while being photographed or videotaped or on webcam?.

I'm surprised that Larry didn't explain this to you beforehand: adult content production is only explicitly legal in California. It's illegal under prostitution and pandering laws in EVERY other state.

Sure, a ton of porn comes from Florida and elsewhere ? and the fact that it hasn't before now been pursued isn't because it's not illegal, it's because the state didn't want to lose the case and create another legal "porn valley" ? something about your case must have made them feel it was worth the chance.

I'm not being unsympathetic, but I am really surprised it took this long...

[blackfeet]

"McNesby said local residents complaints prompted the investigation into the web operation."

i plan on sending you guys a donation too.
i have a daughter also so i know what you are
going through.

[MaDalton]

Jim - I wish you and the other guys all the best in this upcoming battle. I was really concerned when I read about that the first time - and I still am.

Good luck!

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Well we'll find out when the case goes to trial.

Nice to see that you're on the government's side and blaming the victim of a bible thumping prosecutor who apparently doesn't have enough real criminals to go after.

Im not on the government's side, pensacola is right on the alabama border. I have friends who have lived there,its a very uptight place. To be a large fish and pretty public in a small town, you are painting a big target on your back. Now I know everyone feels the internet porn creed I can do whatever I want anywhere but the real world is if your in a place that is not adult friendly you are asking for trouble. What we do is very gray, its not black and white. People that do these things , create precedents that the rest of us have to live with. If they were in miami or tampa it would of been a nonevent. Now you are a internet marketer so you dont have worry about places to shoot, florida was good for talent and now if they lose we are all fucked who went to shoot also its starts a precedent for other states to follow.

[DamageX]

"The cops are claiming that paying people to perform sexually on camera is prostitution."

Just curious if where people have sex, when paid, matters. On or off camera, they're still getting paid to fuck and they do it for the money.

[gleem]

it's sad how if the po-po comes knocking unless you got millions laying around for a serious defense, your screwed. you'd think one of the other big companies shooting in Florida would step in with a 6 figure defense donation, but they won't since we all think we have our ducks in a row. The thing is, it doesn't matter if you do, you get arrested and have a trial you're easily in a 6 figure legal bill range, almost guarenteed 7 figure legal bill when it's done even if you're relatively innocent.

[slapass]

i understand this is GFy but why the fuck does everyone try to get a kick in when someone is down. You do not think that these guys wish they had been somewhere else when the shit storm hit? Yep, in hindsight... blah blah blah.

I wish Ray Guhn and COHF crew all the best on this. It could be anyone of us. I hope others see this and step up with some cash too.

[JD]

Originally Posted by gleem

it's sad how if the po-po comes knocking unless you got millions laying around for a serious defense, your screwed. you'd think one of the other big companies shooting in Florida would step in with a 6 figure defense donation, but they won't since we all think we have our ducks in a row. The thing is, it doesn't matter if you do, you get arrested and have a trial you're easily in a 6 figure legal bill range, almost guarenteed 7 figure legal bill when it's done even if you're relatively innocent.

I can think of several that need to step up to the plate and help out

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm surprised that Larry didn't explain this to you beforehand: adult content production is only explicitly legal in California. It's illegal under prostitution and pandering laws in EVERY other state.

Sure, a ton of porn comes from Florida and elsewhere ? and the fact that it hasn't before now been pursued isn't because it's not illegal, it's because the state didn't want to lose the case and create another legal "porn valley" ? something about your case must have made them feel it was worth the chance.

I'm not being unsympathetic, but I am really surprised it took this long...

it took so long because in Miami and tampa , there are adult stores and strip clubs everywhere. Score is in a big office park next to all kinds of businesses.So no one really cares, the whole community thing that everyone seems to forget. Now where I live they give out free magazines filled with escorts and dommes, they have huge swing clubs, lots of strip clubs.Mike South is put on the cover of the largest free progessive paper as the king of porn and nothing happens.going after people who shoot porn isnt big on their list of things to do.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by slapass

i understand this is GFy but why the fuck does everyone try to get a kick in when someone is down. You do not think that these guys wish they had been somewhere else when the shit storm hit? Yep, in hindsight... blah blah blah.

I wish Ray Guhn and COHF crew all the best on this. It could be anyone of us. I hope others see this and step up with some cash too.

I wish them the best and hope it comes out in their favor.if you dont produce porn then you dont understand,these actions effect all of us who produce porn out of LA and it could of been avoided. I doubt Im the first to say running their business in pensacola was a bad idea.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by tony404

going after people who shoot porn isnt big on their list of things to do.

that doesn't make porn production legal in Florida

if they had consulted a competent attorney earlier, they would have moved

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Stephen

that doesn't make porn production legal in Florida

if they had consulted a competent attorney earlier, they would have moved

but you know what Im talking about, the more adult in a community the harder to convince a jury.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by DamageX

"The cops are claiming that paying people to perform sexually on camera is prostitution."

Just curious if where people have sex, when paid, matters. On or off camera, they're still getting paid to fuck and they do it for the money.

Ask an attorney about the implications of the case People v. Freeman AKA California v. Freeman.

In the case, the California Supreme Court held (among other things) that "in order to constitute prostitution, the money or other consideration must be paid for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification."

No state other than California has adopted the precedent set by the ruling in this case. The US Supreme Court denied cert when the state of California appealed the ruling, leaving it (for now) an open question throughout everywhere in the country other than California.

That said, seems to me that the CA precedent certainly can't hurt the defense in the FL case.

You can 'blame' the defendants in the case if you wish, but i think a fair question in response to tony404's question is "why would you produce porn anywhere outside the state of California?"

The answer, IMO, to both questions is the same: "I believe I have a Constitutional right to create material that is presumed to be protected by the First Amendment, regardless of where I live, and I am willing to fight for that right in court, if need be."

- Q.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by tony404

but you know what Im talking about, the more adult in a community the harder to convince a jury.

I've seen the COHF site. When it's displayed on a large screen in front of the jury, it won't be too hard for the prosecutor to make his point that it was "porn production" - which is illegal in Florida.

I can't and won't speak to the other counts, but this one is a slam dunk. I've known Larry since he worked with Dave Wasserman years ago, and he's the best guy to defend this case, but I'm sure he's laid the facts on this count pretty plainly to those involved.

As I said, they should have asked him earlier.

Everyone shooting in the US but outside California should take a lesson here.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm surprised that Larry didn't explain this to you beforehand: adult content production is only explicitly legal in California. It's illegal under prostitution and pandering laws in EVERY other state.

Sure, a ton of porn comes from Florida and elsewhere ? and the fact that it hasn't before now been pursued isn't because it's not illegal, it's because the state didn't want to lose the case and create another legal "porn valley" ? something about your case must have made them feel it was worth the chance.

I'm not being unsympathetic, but I am really surprised it took this long...

Hate to say it, but he is right.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Thank you for your eloquent update and appeal for funds.

You have certainly put a human face to this, and driven home the point that we need to unite as an industry to stand up to unjust and unfair persecution/prosecutions. The government trying to regulate free speech and activities between consenting adults in this way is truly misguided.

A victory for you will be a victory for us all, just a defeat will a defeat for us all. Time to fight back.

Also, let me say that I hope you can be reunited with your daughter before long. To have her removed from your custody simply because you work in the adult industry is beyond reprehensible.

ADG Webmaster

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Stephen

that doesn't make porn production legal in Florida

if they had consulted a competent attorney earlier, they would have moved

Not sure I can agree with you there, Stephen. I know some highly competent attorneys with clients who have been specifically advised of the facts, and those clients still produce content in US states other than California....

You know what they say, "you can lead a horse to water...."

- Q.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by DamageX

"The cops are claiming that paying people to perform sexually on camera is prostitution."

Just curious if where people have sex, when paid, matters. On or off camera, they're still getting paid to fuck and they do it for the money.

Obviously they are saying it doesn't matter if on or off camera. Prostitution is illegal, they say fucking for money is prostitution.

Who would have thunk it?

[tony286]

We will be giving to the defense fund because its now all of us.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I've seen the COHF site. When it's displayed on a large screen in front of the jury, it won't be too hard for the prosecutor to make his point that it was "porn production" - which is illegal in Florida.

I can't and won't speak to the other counts, but this one is a slam dunk. I've known Larry since he worked with Dave Wasserman years ago, and he's the best guy to defend this case, but I'm sure he's laid the facts on this count pretty plainly to those involved.

As I said, they should have asked him earlier.

Everyone shooting in the US but outside California should take a lesson here.

Yes in pensacola with a pensacola jury but not in tampa where there is a sex shop and strip club on almost every other corner. Its not cut and dry but being in a small town that hates porn makes a huge difference. The locals started complaining thats what started the ball rolling.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Quentin

The answer, IMO, to both questions is the same: "I believe I have a Constitutional right to create material that is presumed to be protected by the First Amendment, regardless of where I live, and I am willing to fight for that right in court, if need be."

- Q.

ummm, while I might defend to the death your right to to make that decision, shouldn't you be prepared to pay the piper when the time comes?