Paysite owners, how do you protect your content from torrent sites?

[tical]

Just trying to get a few ideas here and there... we all know if someone wants it bad enough anything can be cracked / leaked... but what are YOU guys doing to protect your content from getting traded online?

Think its almost impossible w/o restricting the member too much (eg, not allowing them to download movies to their hds)??

[Profits of Doom]

I personally don't think the torrent sites are as much of a problem as the sites like Rapidshare, Megaupload, Depositfiles, etc. Rapidshare has an Alexa ranking of 19, which put it close to the 17 of eBay, and Megaupload has an Alexa of 13, which makes it a more visited site than eBay. Considering you can download entire members areas off those sites it is insane the traffic they are receiving.

[tical]

true, i should have named the thread differently... but you're right on point with what i'm talking about

i could easily just encode everything in flash and stream only from the site (which i'm sure could be ripped off as well), but i know some members like to use other players, burn to dvd, etc , etc...

wonder if its possible to find a balance w/o getting jacked... probably not

[p1mpdogg]

bump for a biz related thread!

[RawAlex]

Apparently Apple's Itunes now is DRM free, but they are encoding the user information into the files, so they know who is sharing. I suspect there will be a major ass lawsuit when the RIAA decides to go after file sharers that buy the content and then give it away.

[tical]

RA that definitely could be some useful information, but then again it only takes 1 phony account and 1 leak to get your shit all over the net... then again if someone could be held responsible.

That would rock

[Digipimp]

my opinion on this is that it never really matters that much. the people viewing your content on those sites would never buy anyway so why spend so much time worrying about them. the best thing that can be done from the start has always been a nice watermark on the content, anything else is a waste of time to me.

[tical]

that is also true, it wouldn't hurt with branding

[TTiger]

low the download speed and the user should download only 1 file at time so its will automatically kill the web spider and mass downloader

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

Put a block on download managers,
Put a daily download limit on,
Put a download throttle on
Scour the torrent sites a few times a day.
Submit your site on their "do not upload listings"

[Goodings Media]

If videos are been streamed to the user, can they still rip that content?

Im not a paysite owner but I always had it in my mind that this is what I'd do

...although it's a bit unfair to now allow members to download but what can ya do

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

Originally Posted by Goodings Media

...although it's a bit unfair to now allow members to download but what can ya do

Yes and no - naturally the average member is legit but, something has to be done to reduce the effect of site abuse from the odd one or two - after all they have download managers and a wealth of places to put stolen content now, which they didn't 5 years ago.

Saying that people who post torrents don't join sites and therefore shouldn't be worried about isn't exactly true - someone paid the membership fee and ripped the site.'

There isn't many sites that i know of that don't allow the user to save to hard drive - but it would certainly be a step in the right direction if "right click and save" were disabled as an industry standard - it would make things just a little more difficult.

In any event, maybe the question should be.....

why do members expect to leave a site after their membership has expired and still be able to view the content????

[Jace]

wonder what would happen if pornographers started fighting back in dirty ways

for instance, what if some elite programmer created a crazy codec install that no one saw being installed, and all it did was constantly download from rapidshare and fill users computers with "hidden" files it downloaded....it would fill up a users computer and at the same time kick rapidshare in the nuts

imagine a bot net of 400,000 freeloader porn surfers that got this codec and all it did was constantly download from rapidshare all day and night

[Digipimp]

Originally Posted by ultimatebbwdotcom

Saying that people who post torrents don't join sites and therefore shouldn't be worried about isn't exactly true - someone paid the membership fee and ripped the site.'

There isn't many sites that i know of that don't allow the user to save to hard drive - but it would certainly be a step in the right direction if "right click and save" were disabled as an industry standard - it would make things just a little more difficult.

ahhh so we should cause because one person bought a membership, even though he's sharing it with thousands. watermark is still what its all about. the people who take content and post to torrents are the kind of people that buy, and they are the kind of people that will figure out a way to steal your content no matter what you do. and its very easy to get a video that isnt downloadable if you want to.

watermark, watermark, watermark. actually you can embed into your videos so that they pop urls when they're played too.

oh and its 2007 and someone is talking about disable right click, thats just LOL

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Digipimp

oh and its 2007 and someone is talking about disable right click, thats just LOL

I chuckled at that too

[jollyperv]

Originally Posted by Jace

wonder what would happen if pornographers started fighting back in dirty ways

for instance, what if some elite programmer created a crazy codec install that no one saw being installed, and all it did was constantly download from rapidshare and fill users computers with "hidden" files it downloaded....it would fill up a users computer and at the same time kick rapidshare in the nuts

imagine a bot net of 400,000 freeloader porn surfers that got this codec and all it did was constantly download from rapidshare all day and night

Smokey, do that shit!

[PunkRockXXX]

great thread

[Dirty F]

Please dont mess with Rapidshare.

[Mr. Billy]

Originally Posted by Jace

imagine a bot net of 400,000 freeloader porn surfers that got this codec and all it did was constantly download from rapidshare all day and night

Yes...yesss....yessssss!

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by Digipimp

my opinion on this is that it never really matters that much. the people viewing your content on those sites would never buy anyway so why spend so much time worrying about them. the best thing that can be done from the start has always been a nice watermark on the content, anything else is a waste of time to me.

way outdated thinking - we are losing customers because it's getting easier and easier and surfers are getting smarter - surfers that once would join sites but now are learning it's easy to find and d/l their favorite content for free.

we're going to be left with a small market of people who would rather just pay for something they want - there are still millions of people who buy music CD's but not enough to support the thousands of retail stores who had to watch their businesses destroyed - hundreds of millions of dollars lost.

[quantum-x]

There are a couple of things here
#1 - Ensure pictures + videos aren't your site's sole appeal.
IE, have webcam shows, private messages, competitions etc etc - things to keep members happy.
#2 - Most site rips are dated. The Raven Riley ones floating around are terrible - they've got content from 4 years ago. Noobs.
#3 - You can't stop members downloading, but you can take step to stop being rorted - installing a bandwidth limiter / limit on your sites.
If accounts get shared under proxies etc, it hits a limit of 10G in a day and that's that, for example. Punishes the abusers, but not the users
#4 - Stay in contact w/ your members. Give free shit away for them finding stolen content. Teach them how to report stolen content. You have vigilante armies at your fingertips.

[tical]

Originally Posted by quantum-x

#4 - Stay in contact w/ your members. Give free shit away for them finding stolen content. Teach them how to report stolen content. You have vigilante armies at your fingertips.

I like this idea, good stuff

[StarkReality]

Originally Posted by Goodings Media

If videos are been streamed to the user, can they still rip that content?

Im not a paysite owner but I always had it in my mind that this is what I'd do

...although it's a bit unfair to now allow members to download but what can ya do

Unfortunately, there are tools and even premade plugins for firefox and IE to download most streaming media...although there are ways to prevent it, but most off the shelf streams aren't protected.

[Lord Aga]

http://www.verimatrix.com/

[TheDoc]

For 10 years I have ran paysites, and for 10 years people have stolen content, posted it on newsgroups, emailed, torrent sites, p2p, ect ect ect..

People have 50+ ways to already get your content free, torrent is just one small part of the pie. Newsgroup services are far more dangerous for content trading than torrent.


Is all this from a lack of sales? Content being stolen, torrent/newsgroups, do you "think" it creates content saturation?

Does any one person have direct proof that torrent sites have lost them money? Or is the bitching contagious?

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Digipimp

my opinion on this is that it never really matters that much. the people viewing your content on those sites would never buy anyway so why spend so much time worrying about them. the best thing that can be done from the start has always been a nice watermark on the content, anything else is a waste of time to me.

Possibly true, but as each day goes by word spreads and it will affect profits.

As important to producers of content is the feeling of being stolen from, having others make money from your efforts. No-one likes getting fucked.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Does any one person have direct proof that torrent sites have lost them money? Or is the bitching contagious?

If torrent sites are making money then yes they are stealing profits from copyright holders. Directly or indirectly, does it matter?

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by ultimatebbwdotcom

In any event, maybe the question should be.....

why do members expect to leave a site after their membership has expired and still be able to view the content????

BINGO!




.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Does any one person have direct proof that torrent sites have lost them money? Or is the bitching contagious?

I would imagine a p2p network that focuses on illegal file and media sharing, and also happens to control 35% OF THE ENTIRE INTERNETS TRAFFIC, would also be a direct source of stolen paysite content

[Jace]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

For 10 years I have ran paysites, and for 10 years people have stolen content, posted it on newsgroups, emailed, torrent sites, p2p, ect ect ect..

People have 50+ ways to already get your content free, torrent is just one small part of the pie. Newsgroup services are far more dangerous for content trading than torrent.


Is all this from a lack of sales? Content being stolen, torrent/newsgroups, do you "think" it creates content saturation?

Does any one person have direct proof that torrent sites have lost them money? Or is the bitching contagious?

I still, to this day, subscribe to multiple newsgroup services...and I also frequent a LOT of torrent sites checking shit out....and there is NOWHERE near the amount of porn rips and stolen content on newsgroups that there are on torrent sites...newsgroups are still pretty popular, but not near as much as they were 5-8 years ago

Profits of Doom already said the key, Rapidshare and sites like that are the #1 enemy BY FAR in this war....it is the one single site that every porn surfer knows about and knows how to use

[Turf]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

BINGO!




.

well sadly we as an industry taught them that this was what they should be able to do as we have aways allowed it.. and teaching a dog new tricks is freaking hard!

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Jace

I still, to this day, subscribe to multiple newsgroup services...and I also frequent a LOT of torrent sites checking shit out....and there is NOWHERE near the amount of porn rips and stolen content on newsgroups that there are on torrent sites...newsgroups are still pretty popular, but not near as much as they were 5-8 years ago

Profits of Doom already said the key, Rapidshare and sites like that are the #1 enemy BY FAR in this war....it is the one single site that every porn surfer knows about and knows how to use

Only a shift has taken place, nothing has changed. Many of these torrent type sites started off as IRC networks/news networks that grew into Websites. They are making it easier for us to help find our content now so we can have it removed, where on news groups and p2p it's impossible.

I really did just asked my Dad if he knew what Rapidshare was, him and his buddy have never herd of it, along with about 6 billion other people on that planet.

I could feature rapidshare movies in my member areas, and I wouldn't drop retention because of it, if anything I would get member praise for such a find since this would be the first time they have seen such a product.

Torrent sites are committing copyright infringement and making mad cash from stealing peoples shit, hence the reason to move these networks to web-based sites.

They aren't changing the Internet, they aren't new, the source of traffic they hold isn't new, it isn't why your sales are down, they don't cause content saturation to the level that some think.

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

Originally Posted by Digipimp

ahhh so we should cause because one person bought a membership, even though he's sharing it with thousands. watermark is still what its all about. the people who take content and post to torrents are the kind of people that buy, and they are the kind of people that will figure out a way to steal your content no matter what you do. and its very easy to get a video that isnt downloadable if you want to.

watermark, watermark, watermark. actually you can embed into your videos so that they pop urls when they're played too.

oh and its 2007 and someone is talking about disable right click, thats just LOL

I'm guessing we do things differently - because my security is such that members don't have the option to join and share the passwords with 1000's of others.

The whole argument that abusers will get your content whatever is lame IMO. Laying down and assuming you can't exert control over what happens to your content is just giving up and personally i refuse to let some jumped up little shit get away with it without making it a headache.

"Right click and save" is a little LOL...i agree...however you might be missing the point.

By disabling right click and save you teach the average surfer that they cant "SIMPLY" save what they like to the hd.

If they want to save content whilst being a member they then have to learn to use download managers OR take everything to a graphics program.

Thing is they don't know you have download managers blocked, a d/l throttle plus a download limiter on anyway in addition, which pretty much eliminates the point of a download manager even if they can get one to work that isn't on the list.

So now they have to print screen every image and go to a graphics program - which is pretty much as tedious as it gets.

Incidentally, I do watermark things and it never stopped anyone sharing.

The odd one or two memberships where someone may have joined from seeing a stolen pic/video somewhere ....big deal......id rather prevent the 1000's of other people who saw it but, weren't going to join anyway, from ever seeing anything free at all.

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

Originally Posted by Turf

well sadly we as an industry taught them that this was what they should be able to do as we have aways allowed it.. and teaching a dog new tricks is freaking hard!

Exactly, we taught them....a dog will learn a new trick though...just takes a little longer.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Does any one person have direct proof that torrent sites have lost them money? Or is the bitching contagious?

i have indisputable proof !!!

i recently cancelled my playboy magazine memberships i have had for almost 10 years.

The AFF sponsored torrent sites have the same exact magazine i get in the mail FASTER than playboy delivers it to my house.


I doubt i am alone.

[Klen]

Using codec for videos which cannot be downloaded nowhere else.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

i have indisputable proof !!!

i recently cancelled my playboy magazine memberships i have had for almost 10 years.

The AFF sponsored torrent sites have the same exact magazine i get in the mail FASTER than playboy delivers it to my house.


I doubt i am alone.

Well i dont know for you but i more preffer paper issue then electronic issue.Plus it cost only 5$.

[Black Dog]

I feel fortunate in that I sell a type of content that is impossible to torrent -- i.e. live cams. (Yes of course someone can rip my streams and post them but then it's not LIVE anymore.) I feel sorry for companies that make their living off recorded video, but there has to be SOME way to take advantage of torrent sites to MAKE money instead of losing it.

Whatever happened to DRM?


B

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

i have indisputable proof !!!

i recently cancelled my playboy magazine memberships i have had for almost 10 years.

The AFF sponsored torrent sites have the same exact magazine i get in the mail FASTER than playboy delivers it to my house.

I doubt i am alone.

For some reason I don't think you get playboy for the pictures. Why would you rather get those same (only) pictures from a torrent site? When on the 'net you can get the exact same type of photos, girls, quality is better, way hotter girls and shots, for free for the last 10 years, including the entire PB collection. If it's really porn then Twistys is a much better option and video box for movies, the content vs prices, it's logic.

Someone said it above, porn DVD's blow fucking ass. They "MUST" complete with topbucks, perfectgonzo, nastydollars, bb, ect.. The Internet companies are killing the DVD companies. Now adult video on demand could save them and these mainstream adult dvd companies still reject them in mass.



And don't get me wrong, torrent sites sucks, p2p sucks, newsgroups suck, members that download and give out content can suck my balls.. But it happens, it has happened for ever, it won't stop happening.

What we think and how we operate with copyrighted content has already changed, and will continue to change. Yes, you produce something - you own it.. But if you give it to a Member it's your ass - and part of the business.

[Black Dog]

I wonder how many of these pissed off webmasters have ever downloaded music MP3s without paying?


B

[stickyfingerz]

Flash streaming no watermark, downloadable watermarked. Best you can do. Drm the downloadable maybe, but thats a hassle for your members if as said they want to burn to dvd or whatever.

[CIVMatt]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Flash streaming no watermark, downloadable watermarked. Best you can do. Drm the downloadable maybe, but thats a hassle for your members if as said they want to burn to dvd or whatever.

Yeah thats a fine line between protecting your content and pissing off your members.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Flash streaming no watermark, downloadable watermarked. Best you can do. Drm the downloadable maybe, but thats a hassle for your members if as said they want to burn to dvd or whatever.

Flash has been doing some great stuff with movies and I hear them or someone is working on better protection. I would convert over and drop my mpegs. But for now I let members download a full master mpeg. While I don't want them to give them out, and managing my pw leaks helps a ton - it will happen and I do expect it.

I get type-ins of course, but I have no way of knowing if it was from something on a newsgroup or a torrent site, or a webmaster.

I just know I have a boob site that is 4 years old and it's is on torrent sites, webmasters have promoted it, I have, ect.. and every day it gets fresh sales, type-ins if you would from the oldest saturated girls on my site... Something is feeding that.

[Black Dog]

I don't get it. The same people that are stealing your content are also stealing from Playboy, Hustler, Vivid... etc. and yet these companies are making more money every year. What gives?


B

[ultimatebbwdotcom]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

I wonder how many of these pissed off webmasters have ever downloaded music MP3s without paying?


B

Never - I have no problem paying $0.99c per music download. In addition i cant be called a hypocrite.

I buy original games, videos, whatever....

[D]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Whatever happened to DRM?


B

In many ways, DRM is a very expensive white picket fence.

The cost doesn't always justify the level of security.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by ultimatebbwdotcom

Never - I have no problem paying $0.99c per music download. In addition i cant be called a hypocrite.

I buy original games, videos, whatever....

Good for you. There are already enough hyprocrites in the world, (not to mention this board).

I think we should be watching very closely how the record companies respond to stolen content. Whatever they do can probably be applied to this industry.

IMO the main reason people started stealing music was because they got fed up with paying ripoff prices to the record companies. If you liked a music group ten years ago, the only thing you could do was pay $18.99 for their CD, or $9.99 for a CD single. Even before that, cassettes and vinyl albums weren't cheap either.

Now that you can buy individuals songs on iTunes for $0.99 I'll bet piracy will start to decline.

Similarly, before the Internet you could get a good supply of porn delivered monthly by Hustler or Playboy for about $5 a month. That is about 1/5 what you pay for the average porn site today. Is it time to change the billing model?

Just my


B

[sextoyking]

We protect the old school way

[notabook]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Good for you. There are already enough hyprocrites in the world, (not to mention this board).

I think we should be watching very closely how the record companies respond to stolen content. Whatever they do can probably be applied to this industry.

IMO the main reason people started stealing music was because they got fed up with paying ripoff prices to the record companies. If you liked a music group ten years ago, the only thing you could do was pay $18.99 for their CD, or $9.99 for a CD single. Even before that, cassettes and vinyl albums weren't cheap either.

Now that you can buy individuals songs on iTunes for $0.99 I'll bet piracy will start to decline.

Similarly, before the Internet you could get a good supply of porn delivered monthly by Hustler or Playboy for about $5 a month. That is about 1/5 what you pay for the average porn site today. Is it time to change the billing model?

Just my


B

Once apple strips DRM out from the music, and stops treating the people who pay and download the music as criminals, I may actually consider purchasing music from them. Not like I listen to music much period, but I would never give my business to a corporation who treats me like a criminal even when I'm paying for the service.

[jonesonyou]

always watermark !!