Paypal Moves To Luxembourg

[Rumbo]

http://www.platinax.co.uk/news/15-05...to-luxembourg/

why did paypal europe move to luxembourg and turn into a bank??

curious move for paypal europe, no?

[BigPinPin]

I don´t care where they move because their support and their whole company politics will always suck. Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.

[demon100]

i live in belgium and alot of people have bank accounts in luxemburg cause its a sort of tax paradise in some ways ... it whould have to do something with that .

[Fap]

Originally Posted by BigPinPin

I don´t care where they move because their support and their whole company politics will always suck. Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.

www.PayPalSucks.com

[KILL_FRENZY]

Originally Posted by BigPinPin

I don´t care where they move because their support and their whole company politics will always suck. Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.

that's true

[fallenmuffin]

Taking over the world.. didn't the Nazi's make the same move?

[bizarredollars]

Yep... Old news, and I don't really understand why they chose luxomburg... I would have thought BVI would have been a good choice for them... Certainly from a banking standpoint.

[Pornwolf]

Who gives a shit?

[DamageX]

I believe in Luxembourg its unconstitutional to divulge info about bank account holders. At least it was until a few years ago, not sure how much pressure the EU has been able to put on them recently and if it has suffered any changes due to that.

[bizarredollars]

Originally Posted by DamageX

I believe in Luxembourg its unconstitutional to divulge info about bank account holders. At least it was until a few years ago, not sure how much pressure the EU has been able to put on them recently and if it has suffered any changes due to that.

Hmm... I never considered that.. Good info, thanks!

[bizarredollars]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Who gives a shit?

I give a shit... One of my mainstream businesses does half of it's turn over through PayPal... For mainstream, it's a very useful service.

[Pornwolf]

Hello, so do I. But, at the end of the day if the gov wants your info there's nowhere they can hide as long as they are a subsidiary of E-Bay.

So, it doesn't matter. Pure and simple.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Hello, so do I. But, at the end of the day if the gov wants your info there's nowhere they can hide as long as they are a subsidiary of E-Bay.

So, it doesn't matter. Pure and simple.

Actually, it does, provided that Luxembourg's constitution still bans disclosing account info. If the newly created bank is registered there then the US government can't do jack to obtain information, legally anyway.

[CWeb]

Originally Posted by DamageX

I believe in Luxembourg its unconstitutional to divulge info about bank account holders. At least it was until a few years ago, not sure how much pressure the EU has been able to put on them recently and if it has suffered any changes due to that.

Correct man - it's the same in almost all offshore or private banking areas and usually a criminal offense to disclose corp data or banking info - and this still applies in Luxembourg.

The directors of PayPal Europe Sàrl & Cie blah are prob doing whatever they think is prudent and may need banking status in the EU and perhaps more privacy. It may also be to the benefit of Paypal clients where there may be an option to limit disclosure.

A couple of ebay interests already have legal entities in Luxembourg, including Skype - the reasons for that may be fairly obvious :-)

[DaddyHalbucks]

Interesting, would love to know more about this.

[Pornwolf]

You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

PayPal Europe is NOT a US company. Its owners may be US-based, but the company abides by laws in other countries. Depending on those laws, disclosing financial info to the US government about any of their non-US companies may be a crime.

[bizarredollars]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.

Hmmm... Did you ever visit paypal in dublin... Their offices are huge.. I would call that an Irish workforce... They are not exactly yanks trying to dodge tax.

[bizarredollars]

Originally Posted by DamageX

PayPal Europe is NOT a US company. Its owners may be US-based, but the company abides by laws in other countries. Depending on those laws, disclosing financial info to the US government about any of their non-US companies may be a crime.

Agreed... The company directors can be anywhere.. it's where the company trades that is important.. PayPal US deals with the Yanks, PayPal EU deals with Europe... It does not take a genius to understand that.

[CWeb]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

You guys are smoking crack to think that a company that is based in the US and does the bulk of it's business here has any leverage when it comes to protecting your info. It doesn't matter where they put certain accounts. As long as the company is still called PayPal your privacy protection is mild at best.

There may be other reasons the move makes sense but privacy is not one of em.

Know nothing about how ebay is constructed and, rest assured, they will have spent plenty time arranging their affairs.

There are too many possibilties and biz arrangements and it's really up to whatever directors are in place in any legal entities in whatever countries as to how they behave. They will be governed by the laws of the country of incorporation.

Example... a possible accquistion may not even be financed by ebay and the lenders can be directors of totally different legal entities in other countries - and some of these directors may represent lenders. Each legal entitity is responsible for it's own conduct and will have it's own deals with other corps.

As far as any possible limited disclosure to EU clients is concerned - that's not a big deal - tho may not be the purpose of the move or the reason for bank formation.

It's very hard to say "it's all ebay" - doubt life is that simple man.

[CWeb]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Its owners may be US-based, but the company abides by laws in other countries. Depending on those laws, disclosing financial info to the US government about any of their non-US companies may be a crime.

Damn Totally correct Damage :-)

[Pornwolf]

Some things are not that simple.

Let's say the US gov wants records on a swath of customers that have accounts with PayPal EU. Well, PayPal will take into consideration how much those customers mean to them then give up the goods faster than you can say EPassporte.

"Why" you ask?

Because they are related... joined at the hip... no matter what the paperwork says. If the Gov is having a hard time with Paypal US in regard to records they will put the kind of pressure that they are known to put on companies that don't play nice with their requests. The IRS, The Treasury Dept, and all kinds of BS legislation can and usually is used in these kinds of cases. Paypal knows that and they also know protecting you is not worth any kind of issues Stateside.

While that Luxembourg privacy status is a wonderful thing and it actually means something for your average customer... you would be amazed at how quickly the wind changes and you are in the cross hairs of the US Government's targets if you are selling to US customers.

But don't listen to me, keep thinking PayPal offers some kind of real privacy protection. Just keep your nose clean or else you will find out what I am talking about first hand.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by demon100

i live in belgium and alot of people have bank accounts in luxemburg cause its a sort of tax paradise in some ways ... it whould have to do something with that .

A lot of belgians USED TO HAVE bank accounts in luxembourg. These days, if you have the belgian nationality and you have $$$ stashed in Luxembourg, there's no 'tax benefit' whatsoever. Lux banks take what you owe the belgian gov from your account.....

[CWeb]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Some things are not that simple.

Let's say the US gov wants records on a swath of customers that have accounts with PayPal EU. Well, PayPal will take into consideration how much those customers mean to them then give up the goods faster than you can say EPassporte.

Sure.. anything is possible and if the reasoning is possibly along the lines of eg tax evasion or other criminal activity - sure, there is likely to be a degree of cooperation.

Give you an example (actual)... of Luxembourg - and this applies to *anywhere* including the US. Two law officers were tracking a target who was known to be involved in financial crimes (and other stuff). They followed the target thru a few Euro countries until he reached the border of Luxembourg. At that point they turned back and drove home.

Why? Because they would have no cooperation from Lux authorities unless they presented a case in court (at that point, there was no chance of this). Lux law may sure be interested and the financial regulatory authority would be - but that is another matter which they would investigate themselves.

If there are genuine crimes, of course there will most likely be cooperation - especially if drugs or financial stuff - but lesser chance if the "crimes" were re tax offenses in other countries. The reason for that is that whatever crimes there are, must be crimes in both jurisdictions - and if there are no tax issues, that would not apply.

Again.. there is the gungho approach of threats which has been used by the US in both Switzerland and Luxembourg and these used to work - but lesser chance now unless actual evidence is provided to judges.

There are all kinds of pressures which could be applied - but doubt they will apply up to fishing expeditions and nosy interest. The existing laws of the country of incorporation come above that level.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Some things are not that simple.

Let's say the US gov wants records on a swath of customers that have accounts with PayPal EU. Well, PayPal will take into consideration how much those customers mean to them then give up the goods faster than you can say EPassporte.

"Why" you ask?

Because they are related... joined at the hip... no matter what the paperwork says. If the Gov is having a hard time with Paypal US in regard to records they will put the kind of pressure that they are known to put on companies that don't play nice with their requests. The IRS, The Treasury Dept, and all kinds of BS legislation can and usually is used in these kinds of cases. Paypal knows that and they also know protecting you is not worth any kind of issues Stateside.

While that Luxembourg privacy status is a wonderful thing and it actually means something for your average customer... you would be amazed at how quickly the wind changes and you are in the cross hairs of the US Government's targets if you are selling to US customers.

But don't listen to me, keep thinking PayPal offers some kind of real privacy protection. Just keep your nose clean or else you will find out what I am talking about first hand.

What you don't show any evidence of realizing is that PayPal Europe is for EUROPEANS. Which means the US government has ZERO jurisdiction to request info on ANY of the clients of PayPal Europe. The most they can do is petition local governments to request that info, using a court order, and cross their fingers that they'll find it fishy enough to share it. This doesn't even have anything to do with PayPal relocating their European division to Luxembourg, this is the reality TODAY. PayPal account holders residing in the USA are subject to US laws. Others aren't.

[CWeb]

Originally Posted by DamageX

What you don't show any evidence of realizing is that PayPal Europe is for EUROPEANS. Which means the US government has ZERO jurisdiction to request info on ANY of the clients of PayPal Europe. The most they can do is petition local governments to request that info, using a court order, and cross their fingers that they'll find it fishy enough to share it. This doesn't even have anything to do with PayPal relocating their European division to Luxembourg, this is the reality TODAY. PayPal account holders residing in the USA are subject to US laws. Others aren't.

That is back to jurisdictional stuff again Damage - and you are correct. Basically PayPal Europe (or whatever their corp is called) is a legal entity operating under whatever Euro country laws and presumably dealing with EU clients.

And.. as you said, same with US clients under US laws.

[CWeb]

BTW... On the amusing side...

There are all kinds of possible scenarios which can be used to limit intrusion.. Not saying this applies in the PayPal instance, but is not unusual where there may be possible attempted jurisdictional abuse.

A corp in one jurisdiction can simply give rights to trade is name/copyright stuff and eg "software tools" etc to a corp in another jurisdiction - for $X thousand dollars/month. In effect - a leasing contract.

The corp in the other juridisdiction is obliged for follow the laws of that jurisdiction and has a different set of directors. That corp is not "beholden" to anyone other than it's clients/shareholders and the govt under whose laws it operates - as long as it pays it's $X/month to it's "leasing company".

The profits the corp may generate is a matter for the directors to handle in whatever way they see fit - these do not necessarily have to be passed back to the "leasing company", but can be invested wherever to the benefit of shareholders in that entity.

The problem here is we have no damned clue about what Paypal's personal biz is and they sure as hell are not going to be discussing it with anyone - and who cares? But hey! - it's GFY :-)

[Pornwolf]

Yup... back to what I said originally... who gives a shit? ;)

[Iron Fist]

Originally Posted by BigPinPin

Anyone should kick their ass to mars...that would be a fantastic move.

100% with ya on that...

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Yup... back to what I said originally... who gives a shit? ;)

You obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't have spent so much time arguing over this.