dropped9

oh yeah #1 problem... the billing... ass raping the surfers cc's.... thats what fucked it...

KrisKross

Companies like XPics that stacked charges on to credit cards and made it impossible to cancel caused a lot of damage, but that damage lessens year by year as more people turn 18 and more people get their first credit card.

Our business is quite dynamic, so I don't think you can put the blame squarely on one person's shoulders. Damage that someone caused 6, 7, 8 years ago isn't very relevant to the industry as it stands now.

It would make for sense to put the blame on "movements" that have been around for a while. Examples would be:

- The TGP movement, not only for helping flood the net with free porn but also for squashing more sensible and profitable promotion methods such as TGP2.

- The spam movement, for flooding inboxes and wasting system/network resources with billions of ads.

- The malicious spyware movement, for making users wary to surf porn sites as well as for jacking sales from legit webmasters.

etc.

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SilentKnight

Not sure if its been mentioned already, but I'd add unsavory photographers to the list. In some markets, shady producers have made it increasingly difficult to bring new talent in to the industry (especially new amateur models and fetish/BDSM).

Not saying it causes the most damage - but adds to it.

A few years back we had a Toronto-based bondage model murdered down in Pennyslvania by a psycho posing as a photographer. It sent ripples through the niche industry for a long while.

But that's just one example. I hear of similiar stories or variations on a fairly regular basis.

DaddyHalbucks

Don't call me names, discuss this on the merits.

Please tell us how the origin of 2257 matters.

CP is the standard justification for 2257.

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12clicks

I don't think the industry is damaged.
it just continues to change. this change hurts webmasters. they squeal. life goes on.

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datatank

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cj_purve

How does something that's been over for about 7 or 8 years affect today's market sales negatively?

There's only a handful of WEBMASTERS in the industry who know what that means, so how can it still be having an effect on surfers?

The cowboy days would have been the same no matter who was around at the time ... that shit has to happen for laws & rules to be thought up & implemented.

I guess it can come down to a simple question ... who remembers when visa brought in their chargeback threshold of 2% in 1999? Was that really damaging to the industry, or just to those with creative billing practices?

It changed the industry overnight ... in hindsight, its obvious just how much those single events changed things. before the internet, there were no other industries with such a high volume, high risk transactions.

Sarettah, I figured out all but the last one ... then I laughed my ass off when I figured out who the last one was. One of my favorite people!!! LMAO

You missed quite a few though!

AaronM

Where did I call you a name?

And I'm not going to bother debating with you on a topic that I am very well versed in and you, clearly are not.

KrisKross

Yep, exactly what I was getting at. In the last 7 years, there's been so many new "surfers" that shit that happened in the past really doesn't affect our industry now. Hell, even surfers who got fucked by the likes of XPics et al. have likely forgotten about it at this point.

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sarettah

Exactly. When it was happening everyone yelled "oh shit, they're killing the industry" but in the long run it only set the rules going forward.

There are no problems, only opportunities

I do value my life (sometimes)...lolol.... I didn't want to make it too awful hard for him

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Vick!

DOCTOR 30

Right on.

One of the easiest and biggest boosts in sales I've had was when TGP2 came out. The model was instead of 10 or 20 thumbs, just 5 thumbs and no hardcore and make sure there are blurs on the good parts. There was a community of TGP2 folks and everyone at first helped one another out. It was like taking candy from a baby. New or lazy surfers would see one of those galleries and thirst for a sign up!

Too much free stuff without giving the surfer a challenge means stay-offs or no sales. You have to get a potential customer willing to fork up or sacrifice that dough. Not linger around for years.

It's tough to expect ethical behavior in an unethical industry. That's where lawyers come in.

jayeff

That is a very simplistic view: if it were not, many other strategies to starve or beat the surfer into submission would be more effective than they are. I do not believe the main difference was there was less free content on such galleries, but that - because TGP2 was new and those involved were enthusiastic, as well as initially unsure if it would work - the average gallery was of a far higher standard than the average "regular" TGP gallery. Take a look at The Hun even today: you will be lucky to find even 2 galleries in 20 with any real potential to make a sale except through sheer luck.

Free porn is an inevitability, given the nature of the internet and that of the product itself. I suspect it is responsible for a much smaller loss of sales than many want to believe, but even if they are right, that particular genie isn't going back in the bottle.

To sell a non-essential, potential customers must want that thing badly enough to pay its price. For one source to be more successful than other, its potentential customers must also perceive added value - even if it is small, even if they have to pay a little extra for it - over what other sources are offering.

On the first count, we are kidding ourselves if we believe that most people, who while quite happy to look for free at pictures of naked women or movies of people f*cking, would ever pay for the privilege. A smaller but still large number will buy once or twice out of curiosity, but only a tiny proportion of our sites are good enough to build their interest into something more substantial. Above all, we are taking far too long to come to terms with the differences between the internet and the bricks and mortar world.

The only way in which the vast majority of porn sites acknowledge there are differences, is by offering live video. Then with typical greed and short-sightedness, we price that beyond the reach, if not of the average surfers' pocket, then certainly beyond his level of interest. We depend almost entirely on selling still images and movies, both of which are best suited to other media (and as I noted in an earlier post, 85% of our sites don't provide a reasonable product at all). We got left behind with blog and with a handful of honorable exceptions, we are all but ignoring other manifestations of what is commonly known as Web 2.

The internet is an interactive medium. That is the biggest difference and also its most powerful appeal. You can bump an image up to 6000 pixels, but it is still displayed at a resolution that is a fraction of what it would be in a magazine (nor are you bound to a PC screen to enjoy a magazine). You can deliver movies, but many of the advantages such as accessibility, are offset by poor quality, download times, etc. Plus, all this content can be given away, whether legitimately or by thieves.

All of which was fine when the market was uncompetitive and there were curious surfers out the wazoo. It still is fine, although getting less so with every new sponsor and every new affiliate who appears. But our unwillingness to deal with the internet as a medium in its own right, treating it as an extension of traditional media, is leaving huge amounts of money on the table.

Azoy?

Dishonesty is the main cause.
You can have all the free porn out there that people would like but you can still offer something behind membership that surfers don't get with free porn.
On the other hand fuck someone once and they most likly never come back again.

scottybuzz

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2012

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HighSociety

i love how fat fuck acts like he knows it all, i would have bet money on what he would say in here LOLOL

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Jonathan "JC" Maldini
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