I Bill.....Torrents....password sites....

AMEN TO THAT BABY!!! :thumbsup

Yeah because they have had control of the White House, the senate, and the House for the last 6 years and they shut the industry down. READ MORE THAN LIB BLOGS!!!

That is the other thing I think is bad for the industry, attorney?s who spread nonsense fear about the industry to make more money!!! :1orglaugh

nice weather when people are outside :thumbsup

XPics Publishing

Me. For bringing to much sexy back!

...fresh content is now available weekly from the sponsors..

as you know webmasters used to buy content for galleries...but as general teen and hardcore paysites were overtaken by specific niche sites and solo girl sites, content had to be provided by the sponsor... for example, it would be very difficult to sell Raven Riley, without Raven Riley content...

A couple of the big sponsors of today came to my notice many years ago, because they were stealing content. Seems it worked.

This to me is the biggest problem, but it's changing. Many programmers think the solution to everything is in a script, they think this is an Internet business and some have the morals of "If it can be done, I can do it." Regardless of the long term consequences and legality.

The industry was run by the people who understood more about the vehicle that delivered the goods than the goods themselves.

It's changing as more people this is a long term business about PORN.

I think that Paul Markham asshole has hurt it the most with his fucking magic links. :thumbsup




.

You really are as clueless as they all say you are, aren't you?

lolololololol...Programmers are hurting the industry eh?...lololololololol...


:321GFY

The benefit of people having to buy their own content to put on galleries is simple.

It reduces the number of affiliates, TGPs, LLs and the like by 75%.

When the system of giving surfers free content and directing traffic costs more than the actual product something will suffer. Usually the surfer will think to himself, why buy when so much is available for free?

Your job is to make surfers bookmark your site, sponsors job is to make him not bookmark you site while giving thousands of affiliates the tools to make your site more attractive.

I do not think free content is the problem, in fact I believe it brings more surfers to the Adult Net for us to persuade into signing up. What is the problem is paying out so much to the "traffic" section of the industry to the detriment of the product.

However all this does is make my site and some others look better. When the competition is giving out 50 videos for the same price some give 400+ for it only makes some look good.

Markham, you twit.

Here, I'm going to put up some initals of names from the biz that have in their time been accused of destroying the industry for the "rest of us" (I don't happen to agree with any of them really) If you know anything about the history of this industry you should be able to figure out at least one or two of them.

Tell me, which of these are programmers?

RL
SW
RB
SB
YH
RN
AG
JE


I'll check back before I turn in for the night, and then again in the morning...

Programmers ruining the industry...lolol.. Thanx for the laugh :thumbsup

Around 11,500 sites listed on TheBestPorn with fewer than 100 (less than 1%) earning a score of 85 or more. If you want to call sites good, despite a few negative comments, drop the line to 75 points. Still only 1,500 sites or so, about 13% of the total.

Sure, there are sites they haven't reviewed yet and if we each did our own lists, we would place some sites higher or lower. But I doubt that the total number of sites we rated highly would be dramatically different and that basically suggests more than 85% of the sites we are selling are mediocre at best.

Of course we all remember the high-profile scams, Visa introducing stricter rules, etc, etc. I have lost a lot of money a couple of times, but the impact of most things, however dramatic when they occur, is finite and short-lived. Thousands of webmasters promoting poor sites, day in and day out, must surely be far more damaging.

Fortunately, that majority includes many less well-known sites, so the actual number of surfers being exposed to them is unlikely to be nearly as high as the raw numbers suggest. But now think about all the non-pay sites and pages which also provide a negative experience. Hundreds of thousands of surfers every day must be getting crapped on to a greater or lesser extent. When they do hit a site or links to a site they might enjoy, how much harder must the job be to convince them they have found the real thing?

Did you know that 99.9% of all statistics are pulled directly out of the speakers ass on the spot ? :thumbsup

.

ibill, DRM, zango and torrents

(a) Scammers - from almost day one of the "commercial net". They ripped off surfers big time and all supported by a substantial number of affiliates who earned from it. Includes many "methods" from straight dupe-charging to "tick the box if you don't want to belong to these 50 sites". What's the word again? Shaving... another story...

(b) Overabundance of "free content" - This can be total ripoffs of paysite content on torrents blah or in desperate appeals to get a signup using sponsor content or galleries. This area is endless...

(c) Pedo Fantasy Marketers - pseudo CP sites. While the adult industry rushes to disown itself from CP, these assholes are showing the public what they think is "little girls fucking". Never doubt, the public perception of the "porn industry" is that it includes CP - and this is supported well by the "almost legal pedo-fantasy industry".

(d) There there is Lensman for creating this forum and allowing more trash to enter the market and have a voice :winkwink: Idiots with PC's used to be called surfers - they are now called "webmasters" :pimp

I agree that TGPs provide plenty of content to freeloaders, but they still make sales because most galleries do not show everything. eg, a solo girl site gallery may only go as far as topless or hands-over-boobs; to see more you have to pay. (Or get it from a BBS/torrent site - but that's not what we're discussing)

Of course there are plenty of idiots who just bang a few images from the start, middle and end of a set to make up a gallery...

Where did you pull that statistic from?

Affiliates do not create traffic, other than people logging onto the the Internet to get free porn. They direct existing traffic of people interested in viewing porn. They create traffic to individual sites. (If you don't agree with that come up with an explanation.)

so if it was made harder for people to be affiliates, like buying content, what would be the affect?

Less affiliates or less surfers?

OK I was guessing at 75% shoot me for guessing, what would be you guess? Those dropping out it would be tough, sorry but this is business not a fraternity. The effect on the industry would be minimal, except for those affiliates who survived.

The effect of delivering more money, resources and skills towards the product would IMO be very good. The biggest problem with the industry is converting the surfer. Give him more reasons and confidence to buy and we all reap a reward.

I'm already there, by opening up the site to the surfer I benefit by showing them what they are getting for $30. Instilling more confidence and reasons to sign up works, the good traffic people are in this to make money, they send traffic to the places it returns the best investment.

Even if the owner is a fool, idiot and a TWIT.

Many programmers think if it can be done they can do it. for instance how many listening to music on the Internet are buying it? Funny in a business that sells a license to enjoy content on one hand, some will download it and listen to it themselves for free.


The problem is not going to go away, unless 2257 is applied with real effectiveness on a world wide basis. So the problem is here to stay. Do you think sites with 40 poor videos add to the problem or help solve it?

IMO if paysites offered enough good content the surfer might be more willing to get out his credit card. You can't wave a magic wand and remove free content, you can make the product you're selling more appealing.

The market for "little girls fucking" is tiny. Teens of an age that reminds the viewer of girls in his college, high school is enormous.

Very few of them make enough money to give up the day job, but it's the resources we as an industry devote to them that does the real harm.

those who are in adult who are doing CP and the likes...

Just in case people think I don't like the affiliate system here are my thoughts on it.

WITHOUT IT I WOULD NOT HAVE A PAYSITE.

Simple as that, it allows sites to start up and go out and get traffic, without the affiliate system directing traffic to sites the industry would be dominated by a few. Rather than something anyone with the right tools can get into and make money at.

We just have to put the surfer first and the affiliates second. If we want to put more money in everyones pocket.

Thumb and Movie Posts.
No reason for any surfer to sign up when there is an over abundance of free porn out there. Now vid clips..if done right can be effective...but a lot of people don't know how to do them right. They are too long and often show too much penetration, money shots, whatever, giving the surfer reason to jerk off and move on.
Once the surfer gets off..he ain't gonna buy shit.
I don't care how exclusive, hot or how much shit ya got, on your sites, if they hit a tgp or mgp site. They are looking to buy shit anyway.
Bottom line; Once he wanks it..he's done.

Mr. Sprinkles

Also...torrent sites, spyware do effect the net, but no where as much, as it does on porn. You have a massive majority of people out there that have no clue about torrents. Spyware effects us all, but no so much in the decision of the surfer in wanting to sign up for a website.
But as, I said before..when a surfer has access to tens of thousands of photos and mgp's on a daily basis and all free.
Why is the fuck would anyone wanna sign up for anything.
Kinda like going to the store where they have all kinds of sample food for customers to try.
Ya eat enough..you'll be full.

Sure.. hell, certain parts of this industry never even needed a script/programmer - just two spreadsheets - one for you, one for me *lol* Lost track of the defaulting sponsors now - but was over $250K years back. Of course they all ran "top notch programs" and were "stand up guys" :winkwink:

Not really gonna happen Paul on 2257 - it's a waste of time and unenforceable. There was the day where we always complied with 2257 - simply because it looked as tho it was the start of a potential standard, - but sadly it's kinda useless and more a joke than otherwise. Can remember when asking a US LE person about this - she rolled her eyes and gave a dry grin - they have more serious stuff to deal with than playing with paperwork.

Unfortunately 2257 is just playing games - in this case with the US online industry. It really does not do much to capture "perps" who are engaged in underage stuff. These people don't care about 2257 and are only the "front end" of an abusive scenario with kids. If LE went after the producers and all "actual" CP content, there may be a point, but doubt that is the case.


Totally agree on crap content! The general standard of the average paysite is ... well, pitiful.

You think it's small?? :winkwink: (Not talking about the teen market here) Paul - it's *massive*, tho admittedly there are fortunately only a few idiots operating these types of "programs" - and they earn very well. It's like a "legal version of CP" and can be openly promoted "because it is legal" (it ain't - but another story). If you care to have a look (tho it's depressing!) at pedo search terms and the volume of these searches - they match and can exceed what we would consider to be good key phrase numbers for the adult industry. There are one hell of a lot of pedos out there. This type of "styled up" fake CP content is illegal in most western countries - chances are that will be the next "excuse" to attack the main stream adult industry and have the media picking it up and throwing shit - and eventually more laws to kill it.

Again - totally agree :thumbsup Don't matter which sponsor program - 90% is taken up by inactive or poor performing affiliates and 10% actually do the biz. At the same time, that 90% consume more time and resources than the productive webmasters - makes ya wonder :pimp

Because I use hosted galleries, RSS feeds etc., I work with dozens of sponsors and in order to get to see what they offer, I have had to sign up with hundreds over the years. The number I actively promote, except via the use of their content is very small.

Even so, when I could still work full-time and my income was over $300K a year, the most I ever made with a single sponsor was $7K, maybe $8K a month. There were a few others in four figures, but lots were smaller. Particularly since I doubt I have actually spoken to more than a half dozen sponsors over the past 11 years, I am damn sure I would have been tagged among the 90% by all but a handful.

Apart from people like me who by accident or design have their eggs in lots of baskets, sure there are plenty earning small amounts. But if an affiliate only earns $10K a year, flipping hamburger money, 100 like him are generating about $2 million a year in sales.

My point being that although the percentages bandied around about earners vs non-earners might be accurate and if so, send out an apparently clear message, the actual money involved is nevertheless significant. Perhaps those so ready to write off these small operations, might be better off figuring out how to get more from them?

Since that is largely off topic, I had better throw in something more relevant. You can shop on Fifth Avenue, at Wal-Mart or a dollar store. You will good and bad deals in all of them, but when you choose one, you have a pretty good idea of what they are offering. Online, if the owner of a site with 50 image sets pays the same money to the same designer as an owner of a site adding 50 sets a week, he can have a store front every bit as convincing as his competitor.

We are our own worst enemies. There must be thousands of affiliates promoting sites without even checking out the tour, let alone the site itself and promoting rubbish as a result. Yet every single time we p*ss a surfer off by selling him crap, we make it that much harder to convince him to spend money next time around. If we were near as smart as so many claim to be, not only wouldn't we be promoting the downright bad sites, their owners wouldn't even be welcome in the industry. Yet somehow we manage to convince ourselves that only the surfers are getting fleeced.

so many angles i dont know where to begin..

#1 biggest problem with adult is search engines. without search engines there wouldnt be useless links dropped.. and would make the collision between adult and non-adult not happen so often.

#2 cross-sales and uncancellable memberships.

#3 thieving billers

but the past is the past and even if everything above no longer took place the biggest threat to the adult industry right now are sites like adultfriendfinder i believe. Until they stop paying torrent sites its only going to get worse

It's all we have to make sure we are selling legal material, until someone comes up with a better system I have to support it. Imagine life without 2257.

I asked a leading person, in the fight against under age porn, about the 2257 visits the FBI are making. Why are they checking the documentation of the people who are THE MOST LIKELY to have it right? Opinion was they do not want to pursue 2257.



Until people realise that surfers are not stupid mugs to be conned, the free content will be a problem.


The reason it's being searched for so much is because it's hard to find, so you have to keep searching. The big money is in sites like mine, no problem promoting them, getting paid or complying to the law and being visible. Run something illegal and it all those things become a problem. Not saying it does not exist, just saying it's blown out of proportion.


Until we as an industry realise that diverting resources away from the product to the guys who will never send enough sign ups to warrant the effort we will suffer as a whole. :2 cents:

This is the odds of a newbie affiliate making more than $300 a week.

I CAN PUT TRAINED PEOPLE IN A ROOM DRIVING TRAFFIC 8 HOURS A DAY FOR $250 A WEEK. Go figure it out.

IMO The traffic is divided, if you have it in volume you are in, if you don't the cost of getting enough to earn $300 a week is so high no sponsor is investing in in house affiliates in the new EU Eastern Bloc countries. they are investing in webcams, shooters, programmers and other support from the Eastern bloc.

Two things have screwed up the industry as a whole and profits IMHO.

1. TGP's period. - Used to be you had to strike a delicate balance between what you were willing to pay for bandwidth and what sponsors might actually convert at 1/10000 with nothing but freeloader traffic - and, of course you actually had to design your own galleries.

Now, any moron with an IQ of 40 can buy some cheap ass script and spam the piss out of the damn internet with free hardcore.

Somebody please tell me whatever happened to "warning pages"?

2. Outsourcing - Giving the the third world the internet was like giving a five-year-old a handgun. Why hire an experienced coder or designer in the US and pay a decent wage for their years of experience and hard work when you can hire some moron who can barely speak english for pennies.

Best regards,

Archer

crescent

1. FHGs
Pretty much a nightmare, no own hosting needed, no skills needed, no investment needed, no own ideas needed, which means loads of new competition

2. TGPs
Thanks to them even new surfers are educated that you can get almost everything free in a short time

3. Free Hosting
Pretty much the same like FHGs, made it easier for more people to enter the industry

4. Torrent Sites
Taking TGPs to the next level, since the freeloaders created by TGPs have more bandwidth now and want bigger movies for free. Yes, maybe harsh to compare them with TGPs, since most torrent downloads are illegal and TGPs aren't, but it's only a logical consequence of the freeloader attitude created by TGPs.

5. Last but not least: Greedy idiots
Scammers, spammers, spyware distributors, cheaters and all those bastards letting YOU do the hard work and stealing the reward.

Hands down TGP's ruined everything in this biz (online) !

Sad part is that most of the folks around here don't know what you just said.

:2 cents:

#1 bad affiliate programs

Your kidding right lets see they made 2257 as fucked up as possible. For the first time there has been 2257 inspections. The attorney generals office firing atty's because they wouldnt go after mainstream porn, extreme associates. Please stop living in a talking point dreamworld.

LOL.....Somebody gets it. :thumbsup

I remember the wild-wild-west days from the mid 90's, we lost a ton of members with DMR, some to Ibill, etc. The whole 'free trial' was one thing, the lack of scrubbing and quality control was another.

TGP's/MGP's
Rapidshare, imagefap etc etc
The inventor of download managers
Ibill
Torrent sites
Password sites
Content sharing forums

is it
RN
AG

damage? i have more money than ever!

keep up the damage.

CP dealers. Nobody else even comes close. Thanks to them, we are all burdened with tons of regulations.

Sure jayeff - can see the reasoning behind both spreading the risk and populating via RSS and galleries without even knowing the sponsor :)

Agree, there is nothing wrong with a sponsor mailing $500 - $1000/month to an affiliate - they add up. The downside is when that affiliate, for whatever reasons (newbie etc) takes up more than his share of support resources. (Can be *anything* - but often stupid stuff, like "I'm .25 cents short on my check!" and having a 30 min explanation and an international phone call over it :winkwink: )

Seems you are much like me - only deal with a limited number of sponsors and have known em since they started, but hardly ever contact them other than the odd "social call". We used to use a fair number of sponsors, but it was not worth the hassle and bad debts - they are all now a "fallback" source of revenue after traffic is passed thru our paysite options.

Hehe.. you been around 11 years now?? Good to see some old-timers are still active - and hell - even appear on GFY! Kinda nice those days and some very serious money earned :winkwink: I remember treating these "small" checks (which could be anything from $250 to $18000) as "dross" and concentrating on the six figure wire transfers :pimp

You are correct in that we are our own worst enemies - there is a tendency to screw up the market that feeds us. Can think of one excellent area where we earned serious money, but scammers thought they could rip off surfers big time for millions and that was eventually hit on the head - there is always someone who wants to push the boat out, get greedy, and, in the process, screw things up for all others in the market. But... plough on regardless :thumbsup

DamageX :1orglaugh

that's bs, it's not blown out of proportion, there is a fucking shitload of CP surfers out there. and some of them end up on sites like yours, like it or not.

why don't you hire a few of those, cancel your affiliate program and stop spamming the boards? :D

irresponsibility...#1 culprit across the board. Always has and always will be.

Please tell me that you are not so ignorant that you actually believe the bullshit you just posted.

I take it you don't know the origin of 2257......

RN might consider himself a programmer, he definitely has the skillset necessary, but I don't think I have ever seen him describe himself as a programmer.

AG is most definitely not a programmer, but without him the adult internet wouldn't exist. Hell, without him the internet wouldn't exist. He invented it, just ask him.... Serial.



:1orglaugh

Goatse! :2 cents: :2 cents: :2 cents:

Funny nobody quoted a name that was posted or even replied to it. hahahaha this thread is funny...