Aliens DONT Exist - I'll Prove It

[everblazin]

Ok first of all, I don't mean life on another planet, life on another plant almost certainly exists. I mean aliens in the commercial green man abduction ufo red neck appearing alien. I base the opinion that aliens do not exist on one simple fact: we have telescopes that can see billions and billions and billions and billions of miles into space, yet we fail to see UFO's or aliens who come so frequently to our plant to abduct crack heads and red necks.

Begin Debate

[GeorgeM]

we cant see UFOs couse they are too fast .....

[everblazin]

We see them on earth? Theres no way something could travel at the speed of light through our earths atmosphere without going largely unnoticed. You could say they were invisible but that would disprove eveyr UFO sighting on the internet. We have made a meterial which can bend light and make somehting appear invisible so if the aliens were so technologically advanced they should of done the same.

[schneemann]

OK, it is time for some Logic 101.

You don't prove something does NOT exist. You can't prove a negative. The burden of proof rests on the shoulders of the person claiming something DOES exist.

[Tzolkin]

Take a look at the video UFO: The greatest story ever denied, and then research the disclosure project. The even show you that there are giant life forms on this earth that have not yet been discovered. It will change your perception, I guarantee it!

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by GeorgeM

we cant see UFOs couse they are too fast .....

Thats fucking stupid.
If you can't see them, how can you prove they exist?

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by Tzolkin

The even show you that there are giant life forms on this earth that have not yet been discovered.

If they haven't been discovered, how can they show you they exist?

[SmokeyTheBear]

i can prove they are real to you.. and i can make tem force you to do things..

if aliens are not real , they cant FORCE you to keep posting on gfy but if they are real they can FORCE you telepathically to post on gfy..

so to prove me wrong , never use the internet again.. if they are real , and my bet is they are real , we will see you again because you were forced to by aliens, now you will say you werent forced that you just wanted to but dont kid yourself you were forced.. thats just what they want you to believe

[everblazin]

Tzolkin I've watched hundreds of such videos that will apparently change my mind usually posted by people saying "OMG THIS IS PROOF FOR ALIENS" and every time I've watched the video and laughed at how stupid you would have to be to believe some of the stuff. Especially the videos of "aliens" themselves :P. But I'll watch the video you said now just to see ;)

[notabook]

Aliens DO exist and will destroy this planet by 2010 if you don't act to stop them. How can you stop them? By electing Bill Richardson of course! Bill Richardson's comprehension defense plan to stop hostile alien threats would prevent aliens from invading by offering them all the delicious tacos and burritos they can eat. In exchange, the aliens will gladly leave us alone. A vote for Bill Richardson is a vote for protecting America from hostile invading aliens!

[Sublim3]

i still believe UFO and aliens exist...

[everblazin]

Well didn't watch it all just the first part about the invisible UFO's, when it started playing random news feeds I got bored and turned it off. Quite interesting but I don't see how you can regard any of it as proof, most of the clips are just anonymous round "planets" with flaming meteor looking things going around them. Any of those video's could have been easily hoaxed with considerable video editing experience. I won't trust such vague videos and I think its foolish to do so. I would of thought we were evolved enough to not put so much faith in grainy videos, interviews from 50 years ago and unclear videos of "aliens" which look like papier mache.

[ayne468]

This thread is gonna be a big one...

[MrChips]

"billions and billions and billions and billions of miles into space"

Thats not nearly far enough.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by everblazin

Ok first of all, I don't mean life on another planet, life on another plant almost certainly exists. I mean aliens in the commercial green man abduction ufo red neck appearing alien. I base the opinion that aliens do not exist on one simple fact: we have telescopes that can see billions and billions and billions and billions of miles into space, yet we fail to see UFO's or aliens who come so frequently to our plant to abduct crack heads and red necks.

Begin Debate

Your argument is retarded. Go get a telescope and try to follow an airplane which is much slower than an UFO would be. Good luck.

Also even with the Hubble Telescope, Pluto which is about the size of the moon is nothing more than a mere dot. So a UFO the size of the moon would be barely visable with the Hubble from a distance of only 4 billion miles. The nearest star is 6000 times further.

If there is intelligent life flying around the galaxy doesn't mean they're coming here. Especially if they've been paying attention to our TV broadcasts for the last 60 years.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by MrChips

"billions and billions and billions and billions of miles into space"

Thats not nearly far enough.

billion = 1,000,000,000

Pluto distance from sun 4,000,000,000 miles

light year 5.88 TRILLION miles = 5,880,000,000,000

nearest star 4.2 light years or 25 TRILLION miles = 25,000,000,000,000

25,000,000,000,000 MUCH bigger than
1,000,000,000

[TR33L65]

"we have telescopes that can see billions and billions and billions and billions of miles into space, yet we fail to see UFO's or aliens who come so frequently to our plant to abduct crack heads and red necks." who says we dont see them?

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by schneemann

OK, it is time for some Logic 101.

You can't prove a negative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens

[IllTestYourGirls]

you can not prove a negitive this thread is worthless

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

you can not prove a negitive this thread is worthless

So Santa can possibly exist then?

[stillsexy]

i have seen one before...a small alien at my backyard

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens

Yes, a Modus Tollens can be a valid syllogism which denies the anticedent.
But in most cases (like these ridiculous UFO claims), the arguer is often affirming the consequent.

And, like any argument it is just as likely to fall victim to GIGO. A syllogism can still be valid but nevertheless untrue. If one premise is untrue the whole thing is false.

[carol.prime]

nice thread bro!!
where's your proof by the way??..

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by schneemann

But in most cases (like these ridiculous UFO claims), the arguer is often affirming the consequent.

What is a common example for UFO claims of "affirmation of the consequent"?

[Phoenix]

crikey....you guys are wankers for aliens

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

What is a common example for UFO claims of "affirmation of the consequent"?

If Aliens, then Crop Circles
Crop Circles
Therefore, Aliens.

[D]

At the risk of repeating myself here...

(U)nidentified (F)lying (O)bjects most certainly exist.... because if it's maintaining altitude, and you don't know what it is, it's a UFO.

Sorry, it just sounds really backwards to me when people debate whether or not "UFO's exist"...

Whether or not life forms alien to this planet are piloting those UFO's... well, feel free to debate that until you're satisfied one way or the other.

Personally, I don't think we're nearly interesting enough to warrant the attention.

[Darkland]

That is proof of nothing. Even if you took all the satelites on earth and the ones we have in space we STILL are only able to watch a fraction of whats going on in space around us. How many times have you heard all of a sudden they just found an asteriod hurtling towards us and it wasn't seen till it was almost on top of us and then it passes. Fast, just like that.

[Darkland]

Originally Posted by D

Personally, I don't think we're nearly interesting enough to warrant the attention.

I dont know if it's that or if we are to dangerous...
Think about it, what do we do as soon as we develop new technology?
Most times we try to figure out how we can use it to blow shit up or kill other humans. We usually destroy what we don't like or what we dont understand.
If they do exist I can see why they wouldnt want to make contact...

[mattz]

yeah okkkkk

[D]

Originally Posted by Darkland

I dont know if it's that or if we are to dangerous...
Think about it, what do we do as soon as we develop new technology?
Most times we try to figure out how we can use it to blow shit up or kill other humans. We usually destroy what we don't like or what we dont understand.
If they do exist I can see why they wouldnt want to make contact...

Good point.

As Stephen Hawking pointed out, throughout the history of mankind, every time one civilization has met another, death and destruction have often resulted - and we're of the same species. If we happened upon another intelligent life form from another planet, the results could be disastrous.

Guess it goes both ways.

[StickyGreen]

Originally Posted by everblazin

Ok first of all, I don't mean life on another planet, life on another plant almost certainly exists. I mean aliens in the commercial green man abduction ufo red neck appearing alien. I base the opinion that aliens do not exist on one simple fact: we have telescopes that can see billions and billions and billions and billions of miles into space, yet we fail to see UFO's or aliens who come so frequently to our plant to abduct crack heads and red necks.

Begin Debate

Your theory is stupid as hell. Who exactly has all these high-powered telescopes you speak of? It could be argued that anyone who happens to see an alien craft through their telescope is probably involved with the government or NASA, therefore they would not tell the public.

Also, even if Aliens are travelling the stars, how do you know for sure that a telescope could even see their crafts travelling in the first place? You do know that they supposedly run on anti-gravity propulsion systems right? Well if that is true then their method of travel is by stretching/warping/manipulating space by the use of gravity waves. So if this is the case you wouldn't be able to "see" them because they are distorting the light/space/time around them...

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

Your theory is stupid as hell. Who exactly has all these high-powered telescopes you speak of? It could be argued that anyone who happens to see an alien craft through their telescope is probably involved with the government or NASA, therefore they would not tell the public.

Apparently you don't know much about who uses high powered telescopes and where. You somehow assume that they're all used by the government or NASA.

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

Also, even if Aliens are travelling the stars, how do you know for sure that a telescope could even see their crafts travelling in the first place? You do know that they supposedly run on anti-gravity propulsion systems right? Well if that is true then their method of travel is by stretching/warping/manipulating space by the use of gravity waves. So if this is the case you wouldn't be able to "see" them because they are distorting the light/space/time around them...

Long distance space travel would most assuredly require an extremely fast vehicle. No object can travel faster than the speed of light. The nearest star is 4 light years away and the nearest star capable of supporting life is probably HUNDREDS of light years away.

Let's say we engage your fantasy notion that such a craft could be built to attain such speeds, you're still talking about at least a generation or two going by before the spacecraft reaches its destination. In terms of aliens coming HERE, that would be like finding a needle in the haystack. Think about it: to come here requires knowing that HERE is a destination worth coming to.

The "aliens" would have to:
a) Be capable of constructing a craft capable of travel at light speed
b) Large enough to hold whatever fuel powers such a craft over such long distances
c) Large enough to house the food and other sustenance necessary for such long distance travel
d) Large enough to hold the staff necessary to make such long distance travel.
e) and finally KNOW we even exist as a destination to visit.

The whole thing is totally fucking preposterous. I'd sooner believe in God than aliens visiting us from hundreds of light years away.

[StickyGreen]

Originally Posted by schneemann

Apparently you don't know much about who uses high powered telescopes and where. You somehow assume that they're all used by the government or NASA.



Long distance space travel would most assuredly require an extremely fast vehicle. No object can travel faster than the speed of light. The nearest star is 4 light years away and the nearest star capable of supporting life is probably HUNDREDS of light years away.

Let's say we engage your fantasy notion that such a craft could be built to attain such speeds, you're still talking about at least a generation or two going by before the spacecraft reaches its destination. In terms of aliens coming HERE, that would be like finding a needle in the haystack. Think about it: to come here requires knowing that HERE is a destination worth coming to.

The "aliens" would have to:
a) Be capable of constructing a craft capable of travel at light speed
b) Large enough to hold whatever fuel powers such a craft over such long distances
c) Large enough to house the food and other sustenance necessary for such long distance travel
d) Large enough to hold the staff necessary to make such long distance travel.
e) and finally KNOW we even exist as a destination to visit.

The whole thing is totally fucking preposterous. I'd sooner believe in God than aliens visiting us from hundreds of light years away.

Did you not read what I said? There is no reason to travel at "light speed" or at any "speed" for that matter. Space is like a fabric that can be pulled, stretched, and manipulated by gravity amplifiers. So in a way you are "pulling" your destination to you. You just don't seem to understand how space travel works, you are thinking in terms of a human-type primitive rocket-propelled spacecraft... they are obviously millions of years ahead of us when it comes to that type of technology. Do a little research about Element 115 (Ununpentium).

[schneemann]

I don't care what gibberish you heard on Coast to Coast AM. You said that aliens are using antigravity propulsion. Antigravity does NOT mean negative gravity. Even in theoretical physics, antigravity propulsion is only thought to be capable of light-speed travel.

If you want to try arguing for some sort of superliminal travel through spacetime, by all means do so, but antigravity propulsion ain't it.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by schneemann

Apparently you don't know much about who uses high powered telescopes and where. You somehow assume that they're all used by the government or NASA.



Long distance space travel would most assuredly require an extremely fast vehicle. No object can travel faster than the speed of light. The nearest star is 4 light years away and the nearest star capable of supporting life is probably HUNDREDS of light years away.

Let's say we engage your fantasy notion that such a craft could be built to attain such speeds, you're still talking about at least a generation or two going by before the spacecraft reaches its destination. In terms of aliens coming HERE, that would be like finding a needle in the haystack. Think about it: to come here requires knowing that HERE is a destination worth coming to.

Ok first all recently us primitive humans has possibly found a planet capable of sustaining life. It's not out of the realm that a alien culture hundreds if not thousands of years more advanced has even better detection abilities. Not to mention for at least 60 years we have been sending out TV signals across the galaxy. Even an alien society only as advanced as ours would be able to locate where our signals are coming from.

b) Large enough to hold whatever fuel powers such a craft over such long distances

An engine based on nuclear fusion wouldn't take much fuel at all.

c) Large enough to house the food and other sustenance necessary for such long distance travel
d) Large enough to hold the staff necessary to make such long distance travel.

I'm not going to explain Einstein's theory of relativity, but sufficive to say a trip at light speed at would say take 4 years to get her from the nearest star would only seem like maybe weeks or even hours to anyone in a ship capable of going light speed. So no you wouldn't need many provisions. Also you assume such aliens need to eat and drink as often as we do.

[StickyGreen]

Originally Posted by schneemann

I don't care what gibberish you heard on Coast to Coast AM. You said that aliens are using antigravity propulsion. Antigravity does NOT mean negative gravity. Even in theoretical physics, antigravity propulsion is only thought to be capable of light-speed travel.

If you want to try arguing for some sort of superliminal travel through spacetime, by all means do so, but antigravity propulsion ain't it.

lol, well anti-gravity propulsion supposedly IS IT. Like I said, do some research on Element 115 (ununpentium) and how bob lazar explains the mechanics of the engines. Thoroughly read about how the engines work, then come back...

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Ok first all recently us primitive humans has possibly found a planet capable of sustaining life. It's not out of the realm that a alien culture hundreds if not thousands of years more advanced has even better detection abilities. Not to mention for at least 60 years we have been sending out TV signals across the galaxy. Even an alien society only as advanced as ours would be able to locate where our signals are coming from.

And has anyone responded?
So, assuming that all they needed was to be as advanced as ours, the least they would have done is sent a response if they existed, right? So where is it?

Originally Posted by GatorB

An engine based on nuclear fusion wouldn't take much fuel at all.

Why don't you go ahead and run some numbers on exactly how much fuel a nuclear fusion based propulsion device would need to send an object the size of the space shuttle to a distance of a few hundred light years?

Originally Posted by GatorB

I'm not going to explain Einstein's theory of relativity, but sufficive to say a trip at light speed at would say take 4 years to get her from the nearest star would only seem like maybe weeks or even hours to anyone in a ship capable of going light speed.

Actually, four light years, travelling at light speed is about 7 months.
Now, multiply that for the FEW HUNDRED light years it is likely to take to get to the nearest planet supporting life. That's where I got the "a few generations" statement.

Originally Posted by GatorB

So no you wouldn't need many provisions. Also you assume such aliens need to eat and drink as often as we do.

Any living being requires fuel. That's what food is, afterall. Yes, that amount of fuel varies according to the size, species, and activity level of the organism but it is still needed and therefore must be stored.

[StickyGreen]

Here schneeman I'll help you get started: http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www...d/gravity.html

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

lol, well anti-gravity propulsion supposedly IS IT. Like I said, do some research on Element 115 (ununpentium) and how bob lazar explains the mechanics of the engines. Thoroughly read about how the engines work, then come back...

The mere fact that you refer to an utter quackjob like Lazar as an authority on anything calls everything you say into suspect.

EVERYTHING written on antigravity, from Einstein to Felber discusses it as a means for "near lightspeed" travel. Antigravity propulsion is NOT capable of supraliminal travel. Antigravity is the overcoming of the force of gravity, not a reversal of it.

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

Here schneeman I'll help you get started: http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www...d/gravity.html

Right back atcha:
http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm

[StickyGreen]

Originally Posted by schneemann

The mere fact that you refer to an utter quackjob like Lazar as an authority on anything calls everything you say into suspect.

EVERYTHING written on antigravity, from Einstein to Felber discusses it as a means for "near lightspeed" travel. Antigravity propulsion is NOT capable of supraliminal travel. Antigravity is the overcoming of the force of gravity, not a reversal of it.

Utter quackjob? He worked at S-4 inside Area51 helping to reverse engineer the crafts... I think he would know how they work...

And did you even read the whole link I provided you? The explanation makes perfect sense to me...

[StickyGreen]

Bob Lazar took John Lear and some others to go witness a test flight of one of the discs. John Lear was nice enough to meet with me last time I was in Las Vegas to tell me the story. I doubt he is lying. How would Lazar know where to go to view the test-flight if he hadn't worked there?

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

Utter quackjob? He worked at S-4 inside Area51 helping to reverse engineer the crafts... I think he would know how they work...

So, exactly how many times has he travelled to another universe? I mean, if he says its so simple, and he's figured out how to make his ununpentium stuff, surely he's gone out and proved it, right?

Surely he's got some bigass research grant from Northrop Grumman or Lockheed Martin to make his craft?

Surely he's been tapped by DoD to make the ultimate super weapon propelled by his superelement?

No?

Actually he's been discredited by scores of his peers because he's a FUCKING LOON

[StickyGreen]

Originally Posted by schneemann

So, exactly how many times has he travelled to another universe? I mean, if he says its so simple, and he's figured out how to make his ununpentium stuff, surely he's gone out and proved it, right?

You obviously don't read anything. Element 115 is not abundant in our solar system!!! It isn't a stable element here on it's own!

The aliens didnt give some Element 115 to Lazar himself dummy, they gave it to the Government. Lazar was just a pawn... just another worker...

[SmokeyTheBear]

Originally Posted by schneemann

And has anyone responded?
So, assuming that all they needed was to be as advanced as ours, the least they would have done is sent a response if they existed, right? So where is it?

why would you assume they would contact us back.. If indeed they are firther along then we are they prob wouldn't be stupid enough to simple freak us all out.

Thats hardly a good argument.. aliens cant exist because they havent called us back

Originally Posted by schneemann

Why don't you go ahead and run some numbers on exactly how much fuel a nuclear fusion based propulsion device would need to send an object the size of the space shuttle to a distance of a few hundred light years?

cmon now , if here are aliens they are obviously more advanced than you or i. And likely have a much better grasp on space travel.

Originally Posted by schneemann

Actually, four light years, travelling at light speed is about 7 months.
Now, multiply that for the FEW HUNDRED light years it is likely to take to get to the nearest planet supporting life. That's where I got the "a few generations" statement.

and if aliens live to be 900 , then they are only 30 in human years

Originally Posted by schneemann

Any living being requires fuel. That's what food is, afterall. Yes, that amount of fuel varies according to the size, species, and activity level of the organism but it is still needed and therefore must be stored.

and if they only need a tiny amount to stay alive then they wouldnt need much right..

[shekinah]

Come what may...

[StickyGreen]

The sad part is our government sits on this fucking technology that could end dependence on oil and all that shit... but no one seems to give a fuck that they still keep all this crap a secret...

[schneemann]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

The sad part is our government sits on this fucking technology that could end dependence on oil and all that shit... but no one seems to give a fuck that they still keep all this crap a secret...

Its all a big conspiracy driven by the Illuminati!

[StickyGreen]

Originally Posted by schneemann

Its all a big conspiracy driven by the Illuminati!

Wtf are you laughing about? You have proven multiple times in this thread that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about...