How about if the Blacks?

[Pathfinder]

How about having the Blacks pay reparations to all of the families of the hundreds of thousands of Northern Soldiers that lost their lives in a war that ended slavery in this country?

Only a small percentage of Americans ever owned slaves (most were to poor to own much more than the clothes on their backs). I don't think farm slaves exactly built this country.

Read Here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60672,00.html

[Pathfinder]

I forgot to post the link to the story. It is there now.

[nocostporn]

I'm already in a heated debate about this on another board so I won't touch it here

[klik]

Oh god.. drama drama drama.

[Pornwolf]

I would agree with you Pathfinder if Blacks weren't made the grunts in that war and were the first in line to get killed first. That war was about more than just slaves. At that time there were relatively few blacks in America but their population was well represented in the infantry.

I still say we should just give them Canada.

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
I would agree with you Pathfinder if Blacks weren't made the grunts in that war and were the first in line to get killed first. That war was about more than just slaves. At that time there were relatively few blacks in America but their population was well represented in the infantry.

I still say we should just give them Canada.

They fought in the war, but only represented a small portion of the Northern forces, Infantry or other wise.

The war was fought over State Rights and the primary right involved was the Right of the individual States to determine law about slavery and almost anything else.

[Pornwolf]

I didn't say there was a lot of them. There couldn't have been since there weren't that many here anyway. But as many of them fought as was possible at the time. That war would have been fought anyway since we had serious territory issues to contend with. The remanants of these "issues" can still be seen by the attitudes of the older generation of southerners toward northern "big city" folks.

I figger, If we start by giving Blacks Windsor, Ontario in Canada, a good portion of one of the biggest black populated cities, Detroit, can just move a couple of blocks over since it's close. This would make Labret happy.

[Brown Bear]

These claims they're making against the government are so outrageous.

Imagine if all the civilizations that ever got fucked up by the Romans decided to sue Italy for what happened a bazillion years ago?

Do they honestly think they will get any money?

[Pornwolf]

I think we should sue England for hassling us about our weird religious beleifs years ago.


The Australians might have a better case against them though so we might have to wait for our case to be heard.

[Brown Bear]

I think I should sue that kid in grade 3 that called me a "doody head"

That was both slanderous and emotionally destructive to me.

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
I didn't say there was a lot of them. There couldn't have been since there weren't that many here anyway. But as many of them fought as was possible at the time. That war would have been fought anyway since we had serious territory issues to contend with. The remanants of these "issues" can still be seen by the attitudes of the older generation of southerners toward northern "big city" folks.

I figger, If we start by giving Blacks Windsor, Ontario in Canada, a good portion of one of the biggest black populated cities, Detroit, can just move a couple of blocks over since it's close. This would make Labret happy.

Maybe you can educate me about "territory issues". To the best of my knowledge the Southern States simply did not think the central Federal Government should be dictating law to the individual States, so they decided to withdraw from the Union.

[LoveAsianChicks]

Originally posted by Pornwolf


I still say we should just give them Canada.

Canada has enough. Visit Toronto if you don't believe me.
Are you one of those blacks looking for a handout?
You seem very defensive on this issue, and at the same time you keep trying to bring Canada into this. Grow up!

[Pornwolf]

Pathfinder, it wasn't a complicated situation. Since the government was essentially run by yanks it became a territorial issue to a degree. We see eye to eye on the situation but you have to factor in that underlying hate for the outsiders.


Love Asian Chicks, what are you talking aboot?

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
I figger, If we start by giving Blacks Windsor, Ontario in Canada, a good portion of one of the biggest black populated cities, Detroit, can just move a couple of blocks over since it's close. This would make Labret happy.

Hell you can have Windsor no problem. We'll even throw in Guelph. But what do we get in return?

If you say Cleveland the deal's off. How about San Diego? Yeah, "San Diego Canada" sounds good.

[Pornwolf]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Hell you can have Windsor no problem. We'll even throw in Guelph. But what do we get in return?

If you say Cleveland the deal's off. How about San Diego? Yeah, "San Diego Canada" sounds good.

How about All of North Dakota & South Dakota?

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Hell you can have Windsor no problem. We'll even throw in Guelph. But what do we get in return?

If you say Cleveland the deal's off. How about San Diego? Yeah, "San Diego Canada" sounds good.

San Diego is not negotiable.

[AaronM]

You should have started this topic tomorrow if you are trying to win the longest thread contest.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Hell you can have Windsor no problem. We'll even throw in Guelph. But what do we get in return?

If you say Cleveland the deal's off. How about San Diego? Yeah, "San Diego Canada" sounds good.

No way in hell will I become Canadian. You can have the shit northern states.

[CptNemo]

Canada has it's problems with the natives-
Grand Chief wants aboriginal self gov't but can't define it.

[Backov]

Yes, they want aboriginal self government, and want to pay no taxes to the Canadian government, but still want welfare, medical care, to use our roads, to trade with our citizens... Uh huh.

A sovereign nation supported entirely by another one. Sure.

Cheers,
Backov

[MrBrian]

at least you have natives. most of the ones in the states live on a reservation in the middle of the desert with just liquor stores and casinos

[jimmy3way]

Originally posted by MrBrian
at least you have natives. most of the ones in the states live on a reservation in the middle of the desert with just liquor stores and casinos

That's very insensitive to native americans!!!

They are called 'firewater' stores.

[Steve]

Let 'em get repparations from the decsendants of the Southern plantation owners. I'm only 2nd-3rd generation American (depending on which side of the family tree you look at). Last I checked, there were no Polish or Italian cotton barons. My people came over well after the Civil War. I don't owe anyone Jack Shit.

[blazin]

I know I'm gonna get flamed.... but I have to say it
I never knew gfy was so full of ignorant racist bigots

I do not totally agree with the views of Louis Farrakhan BUT the views on this board totally disgust me more.

You all should be ashamed of yourselfs.

Blazin

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by blazin
I know I'm gonna get flamed.... but I have to say it
I never knew gfy was so full of ignorant racist bigots

I do not totally agree with the views of Louis Farrakhan BUT the views on this board totally disgust me more.

You all should be ashamed of yourselfs.

Blazin

Since when does having a firm grip on reality make us "ignorant racist bigots"?

I won't waste my time flaming you, you're not worth the effort. None of the posts above are even close to being racist. Remove your head from your ass. Oh wait, I'll probably have to do it for you...

[Deb]

I'd like to add a few points of consideration here:

1.) Black Union Soldiers were not allowed into combat until 1863, two years after the war had begun.

2.) Black Union Soldiers were paid 50% of what their white counterparts made - when they got paid.

3.) 90 thousand free men "of color" volunteered to fight for the Confederacy.

4.) Black Confederate Soldiers received the same pay as their white counterparts.

5.) On three separate occasions, Black NCO's were given command over white soldiers in the Confederate Army. This never happened in the North.

6.) The second largest slave holder in the South was a black man from Virginia.

7.) Confederate Constitution specifically prohibited slavery to be effective at war's end.

8.) If white Americans owe black Americans reparations for slavery, then the decendants of Late Kingdom Black Egyptians (Nubians) owe Jews all over the world reparations for forced slave labor over a period of about 500 years. But, of course that's ancient history...isn't it?

9.) The "Confederate Flag" was not the flag of the Confederacy, it was the battle standard of the Confederate Army. The Confederate Army (as an institution) never held any slaves. Even if it were the civilian flag, it's important to remember that slavery existed under the Union Flag for 87 years (four score & seven years ago) versus a maximum of four years for whatever Confederate Flag you care to name.

Every race has served it's time under the whip. That doesn't make it right...that's just the way it is. No one is ever truly innocent.

By the way, I'm a Black woman, so if you don't start none...there won't be none.

[blazin]

Sly,

The general overtone in this thread is racist.
I guess your too stupid too realise. But read into what people are sayin' and you'll see.

[blazin]

Thanks for the education Deb. Well spoken.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by blazin
Sly,

The general overtone in this thread is racist.
I guess your too stupid too realise. But read into what people are sayin' and you'll see.

I need you to point it out for me. I'm too stupid, remember?

Deb, great post, from both sides of the spectrum.

[TarPy]

Lincoln only made a declaration against slavery to get black soldiers, because he would have lost without them. Remember the world always has alternate motivs...

And, no black person alive today has anything to do with the Civil War, so fuck all that.

TarPy

[Matt 26z]

More black people are killed violently each year before the age of 21 than the number of blacks that go on to get a higher education. Something is wrong with that, and it's not because their great great grandfathers were slaves.

[Pornwolf]

Originally posted by Matt 26z
More black people are killed violently each year before the age of 21 than the number of blacks that go on to get a higher education. Something is wrong with that, and it's not because their great great grandfathers were slaves.

Agreed. I don't think America owes them any money but I do think the inner city policies should change that affect black people and poorer whites. Something is not working. Education, policing, and social programs need to be revamped and become more effective. It is a problem you can see for yourself if you ever visit a school in a poor neighborhood white or black. There is no reason for the schools in the rich neighborhood to have great after school programs, new books, full extra curricular activity support, and even better lunch. In the poor neighborhood there will only be detention for the after school program, old tattered books with pages torn out, 3 sports to choose from, and the chef's meat surprise.

America owes these people white & black something but it isn't money in hand.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Pornwolf


Agreed. I don't think America owes them any money but I do think the inner city policies should change that affect black people and poorer whites. Something is not working. Education, policing, and social programs need to be revamped and become more effective. It is a problem you can see for yourself if you ever visit a school in a poor neighborhood white or black. There is no reason for the schools in the rich neighborhood to have great after school programs, new books, full extra curricular activity support, and even better lunch. In the poor neighborhood there will only be detention for the after school program, old tattered books with pages torn out, 3 sports to choose from, and the chef's meat surprise.

America owes these people white & black something but it isn't money in hand.

You're right, it is a problem. But what exactly should be done? What do you think a classroom of inner city kids, that could care less about an education, is going to do with computers, books, and good teachers? Absolutely nothing! A good number of them can't read, another good number doesn't want to read, and the rest have no need to read.

Hmm... they can live the thug life and have money by selling drugs and hot items, or they can get a degree and work at McDonald's. Which do you think they'll take?

Our socioeconomical problems are too far off base to fix with some quick government money. A different system needs to be implemented. More discipline, more structure, more expectations, and more parent involvement. Until you see at least 3 of those 4 items, the inner city schools are screwed.

As a tax payer, I would much rather see my tax dollars go to schools and kids that are eager and structured to learn, although I do understand that we need to do something with the inner cities.

[Kris]

in zimbabwe, police have arrested 141 white farmers over the last three days for defying government orders to leave their land for redistribution to landless blacks. just something i was reading about. in the morning i'm going to find a homeless black person and give them my apt and car. i'm sure he'll bitch when i tell him he can't have the dog.

[steffie]

Hey Pornwolf

Except STURGIS

I am German we know alot about paying back shit we fucked up. We just keep paying and paying and paying. Our tax is 60% and state tax is 20% and rising!

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
There is no reason for the schools in the rich neighborhood to have great after school programs, new books, full extra curricular activity support, and even better lunch.

My real estate taxes are almost $9000.00 per year. That's what feeds my local school system in part. That's why my schools are better then innercity schools.

My biggest problem with reperations is who gets what and why? Does a Jamaican that moved here 20 years ago get paid?

It's all going to go to the lawyers in the end anyway.

[Pornwolf]

Wow! Remind me not to move to Germany!

Sly, I see your point. When you said "More discipline, more structure, more expectations, and more parent involvement." you were right on point. All of those things are easily acheived... well almost. The reason you have kids deferring to thug life and worshiping the bling bling fantasy is that it's the only thing they can hope to expect since they feel the government isn't giving them a fair shake. This goes for both races which is why you have an alarming number of wiggers(for lack of a better term).

The reason for this is the stuff they see and hear everyday, police recklessly eyballing them at every corner, rundown schools, and even extreme potholes and broken streetlights in their neighborhoods. All of this leads them to believe the people in power don't care about them and that the odds are stacked against them. With this in mind, that makes them adopt a "thug lifestyle", which makes them feel like they have a little respect through menacing looks and mild fear, they feel that they can't get that level of respect any other way. If you ever wondered why thug life is so popular now you know. Bad boys have always been in style but this for a whole different reason.

If they are given some signs that they have a chance to do something with their lives early enough things can change. Instead of police recklessly eyeballing these kids and not saying anything to them until they are in cuffs, police need to speak to them and make themselves known in the communities.

Drugs and the 80's lifestyle has effectively destroyed the poor parents between 35 and 50. They are by and large a worthless bunch of individuals. If you have successful parents be happy and hold your comments. You are lucky. The parents of these kids cannot be relied on for much. If anything is to change it's gonna take the teachers and the smart politicians to show these kids what's out there for them. The kids don't know they have options! If you don't know options exist what else can you be expected to do but become the same thing you see everyday?That's only a worthless older dude with a 40oz in his hand and a welfare card in his pocket. The cycle will continue and get worse.

[Pornwolf]

Originally posted by ChrisH

My real estate taxes are almost $9000.00 per year. That's what feeds my local school system in part. That's why my schools are better then innercity schools.

This is part of the problem.

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by Pornwolf


Agreed. I don't think America owes them any money but I do think the inner city policies should change that affect black people and poorer whites. Something is not working. Education, policing, and social programs need to be revamped and become more effective. It is a problem you can see for yourself if you ever visit a school in a poor neighborhood white or black. There is no reason for the schools in the rich neighborhood to have great after school programs, new books, full extra curricular activity support, and even better lunch. In the poor neighborhood there will only be detention for the after school program, old tattered books with pages torn out, 3 sports to choose from, and the chef's meat surprise.

America owes these people white & black something but it isn't money in hand.

To do the revamping that you propse would take a massive influx of money and professionals and would have to be maintained for a minimum of one generation.

Tax payers do not have their priorities in order and prefer to incarcerate instead of educate.

Bush chose to give back a surplus that existed only on paper and was based upon a ten year prediction. In fact, paper or not, prediction or not, there would never have been a surplus because you cannot have a surplus when you have a national debt and the predicted surplus would not have even paid off the national debt.

Inner cities, and social ills are not a Bush priority, nor a Republican priority, so do not expect any improvement any time soon. Our prison population will just continue to grow, with stupid tax payers not fully comprehending that it is cheaper to educate than it is to incarcerate.

[mjrools23]

"We need millions of acres of land that black people can build."

ooh ooh i know a place...Africa...

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Pornwolf


This is part of the problem.

I don't think so. When people bust their ass to make good money, they expect their taxes to be used appropriately by giving their children good schools. Don't get me wrong, I do believe in equal opportunity, but giving equal opportunity to inner city schools is much more complicated.

You're assuming these thugs are going to change their lifestyle just because someone gives them a school book, looks them in the eye, and says "hey, you have choices". It isn't just the inner city that has kids that don't think they have choices, it's kids everywhere. It's sad really. Just last night I was talking to this girl, a senior at a small town high school, and for some reason we got talking about houses. She was absolutely convinced that she will never be able to afford a house. What's up with that? Shit, I could have bought a house my junior year. Where are the goals? Where are the expectations?

We can't expect teachers to take on the parenting role, it's the parents job. And all in all, the parents are the ones who really have an impact on their children. You think a thug is going to respect a teacher? I don't know from personal experience, but I'm willing to bet the answer is no.

We need to get the parents involved. No substitutes, no cheap teachers trying to take on the position, we need parents. I think it's fair to say that the majority of us here had pretty good parents, although there are probably a few who fought a couple extra battles to get to this board.

Ok, I need a damn break. But bottom line, if you have kids, please be a parent, they need you.

[Nbritte]

Equal treatment can be a two edge sword. If you take the africian american race and say all of their hardships were the result of the people who imported, sold and used slave trade then would that not also mean that the africian americans who are doing so well are doing so because of the actions of the same people? There fore if someone was to claim that the people who were involved with slave trade ect. are financially responsible for the hardships of some of the africian americian race then in turn would not the ones who do well be indebted to these same people.
Food for thought

Brian

[Pornwolf]

We see eye to eye on this problem Pathfinder. The problem will take a generation to fix and will definitely require taxpayers taking a long hard look at how the tax dollars are allocated and distributed. With subtle changes in the distribution of the money things can change. Bush has to go for anything of note to happen. Actually the entire old guard of politicians has to go Democrats and Republicans included.

People have to understand, this problem is affecting more white people than blacks. Blacks just look like the victims because of their large poor people/population ratio.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Pathfinder

Inner cities, and social ills are not a Bush priority, nor a Republican priority, so do not expect any improvement any time soon. Our prison population will just continue to grow, with stupid tax payers not fully comprehending that it is cheaper to educate than it is to incarcerate.

Not exactly a Democrat priority either. The Democrats use shit like this for a marketing campaign, they feed off the ignorance of poor people by creating a front. Democrats have some good ideas, but they need to follow through with them and make them rock solid instead of a wet piece of paper. So many programs that Democrats created started out as something great, but then as low lifes started to abuse the system and take advantage of the program, everything got out of hand and the program turned to shit. Just look at welfare, started out with great intentions, now everyone hates it and the people that really need it can't get it because some other scum is using up the funds.

Nobody wants to touch the inner cities, they all know it's a lost cause. Besides, the inner cities don't have money... why would either political party be fixated on helping them out? Sad but true, that's how the world works.

If you wanted a good school system for the inner city, start up schools for kids as small as possible for most of the year. Feed their mind with positive reinforcement and good education. This would be a great 10yr experiment program, just to see if they find some way to fuck it up.

[appleboy]

No one wants the inner cities not true , In New York they want the inner citites Why? taxes are so low of course inner city children don't get the same like education because politicians make those priorities during election campaigns and quickly forget them , parents don't complain enough. And now that many suburban areas are becoming empty nest areas and many are retiring of course they want the inner cities so they conserve cash notice the real estate tax difference between a city and suburban house on a limited income that's alot .

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by appleboy
No one wants the inner cities not true , In New York they want the inner citites Why? taxes are so low of course inner city children don't get the same like education because politicians make those priorities during election campaigns and quickly forget them , parents don't complain enough. And now that many suburban areas are becoming empty nest areas and many are retiring of course they want the inner cities so they conserve cash notice the real estate tax difference between a city and suburban house on a limited income that's alot .

I'm trying to understand what you just said but having absolutely no luck. Come again?

[appleboy]

addendum, so the inner cities are getting more police presence but of course no educational improvements at least in New York

[jimmy3way]

My descendants are Irish...I'll gladly forward my reparations from the Queen to any black folks.

[Gemini]

You mean ancestors Jimmy3way?

Ohio just did laws on the schools. Now they will collect the taxes and it will be evenly spread between ALL schools in the state. So some say Columbus's tax monies might end up down in Vinton county or some other poorer area. As well as the inner city schools.

From what they have said on the news over the last couple of years, ALL states will have to go to this method or face losing all Federal funding. Ohio was in really bad shape so the Feds came here first.

Hopefully this will help the kids out all the way around. Decent buildings, books and all of that. We should know in a couple of years. Its just gone into effect or was supposed to. So this will be the first year.

[jimmy3way]

Originally posted by Gemini
You mean ancestors Jimmy3way?

Oh yeah them too, although technically my descendants are too.

Well my one descendant.