I have chatted with some attorneys previously about this subject, and this isn't going to get you free.

TGPs crop the pic for the thumb, so the original pic could be sexually explicit, but cropping just the head, your rationalization is it isn't sexually explicit anymore.

But the technical issues of 2257, is that you received the original image,therefore you need the documentation.. whether you cropped it or showed the whole thing in its entirety.

also, if the inspector says this girl looks potentially underage, where is the 2257 info, then you need to first be able to reference the filename to content producer, then deal with the documentation issue.

IMHO, TGP's are ripe for targeting. They have the greatest potentiall exposure for kids to find the free images (most TGP don't have warning pages ), and most don't have 2257 docs..

But the FBI isn't specifically targeting companies, they are randomly picked, but TGP are a major concern for 2257 compliance given the nature of how they work.


Fight the knock on the door!

Oh man someone get this guys contact info please youll need him for the trial.
http://www.justice.govt.nz/education...crime_pic7.jpg

exactly. this thread is titled wrong... 2257 won't f*ck webmasters, lazy webmasters who don't follow THE LAW, who don't invest their time to organize their files correctly, who haven't spoken/retained an attorney that understands 2257, who haven't invested in software to help databbase the information, who don't pay attention to the legal responsibilities for presenting 'sexually explicit' images.......... are the ones that are f*cking themselves.

2257 is a "recordkeeping statue".. its intent is to ensure that minors are not used in adult content production, but its also a law for proper documentation of the ages of the performers.

It may seem silly to inspect images for content that is clearly over 18 (ie. granny model),. but the law is written to cover documentation of all images.

So it doesn't matter if you think its ridiculous that your content is clearly over 18 content and you shouldn't have to do the work necessary to be compliant.

All businesses have rules over them, whether they be general that apply to all like taxes to OSHA, etc... this industry happens to have a requirement for documentation in order to legally operate the business.

So compliance is not an option, it is a requirement for doing business. And for the 11+ years that this law has been on the books and those who have not been compliant, you are operating your business like operating a moonshine still during prohibition.

The sky is not falling. Only thing that will fall is the axe on the necks of webmasters who don't get their business compliant and get the luck of the draw to be inspected. And you are talking about a 5 year felony for failing to document.

Please take your business and your livelihood seriously and invest in both time and materials to address 2257 compliance.


Fight the wake-up call!

I think this has to do with the uproar over paysites having to keep a database cross referencing models with the exact location of all their images, and affiliate text links to galleries.

Somebody give that man a cigar!!!http://www.nustreams.com/OS24007man%20with%20cigar.jpg

I understand everything fine. If you wish to have "dirty pics" on your site then comply. If you are all text then it's not a problem. It's a simple as that.

If I have site that is nothing but text that links to galleries not hosted by me in any way I am under no obligation to have any 2257 docs. Now unless you can prove me wrong I suggest you quit arguing with me an STFU.

I think Bloomer fails to get this part. I supect Bloomer thinks you need 2257 docs for anime porn too.

Your killing me here!
As you see the title of the thead is "AMERICAN WEBMASTERS GET READY FOR 2257 TO FUCK YOU"

If nobody pays attention to this new possible ruling thats exactly what they will do too.

Hows about some serious hard time(5) years in jail for not just one depiction but 10,000 depictions for each instance!

I started this thread in order to make AMERICAN WEBMASTERS AWARE!

Tell me where in the law book it says that you dont!

glad i am canadian.
the land of freedom and porn :thumbsup

Typo.

That should read NOT affiliate text links to galleries.

Have you even read the regs? I'm guessing not.

What part of ACTUAL HUMAN BEING don't you understand?

Mar 2007 reg date.

You are either a n00b or just stupid.

Thats correct, anime porn is free from 2257 since theres no possibility that the model is underage.

As for TGPs and MGPs the only way I can see those ever really being 2257 compliant is to completely automate your process and allow producers and secondary producers the proper fields for 2257 documentation in the submittal process. If you eliminate any human changes (cropping imagery) you've eliminated yourself as a secondary producer as long as you're not hosting.

http://www.guidesulysse.com/avo/cartes/Canada.jpg
http://homedir-c.libsyn.com/podcasts...032clipnov.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4165/flag2hf.jpg

http://internettrash.com/users/therail/loyaltytest.gif

I don't think it is totally the fact about webmasters being lazy. I think it is mostly the fact that secondary producers cannot protect themselves or take any kind of action on this situation since almost all sponsors are refusing to give out any 2257 docs for us to use. Sure the laws are fucking us over, but sponsor might be the ones pulling down are pants by not providing docs. They need to start providing us with docs. :mad:

You are correct on this.
They none of us would have a problem with any of this if they actually gave a shit in the first place by thinking ahead of the game but they dont!

Remember these are the ringmasters who rip us off and throw the elephants peanuts.

This statement right here tells us everything we need to know about your knowledge on this topic.

Please oh wise one explain how one obtains proof of age of a CARTOON?

Actually according the 2257 laws they HAVE to give you the docs if they are providing you content.

Even if they are outside the US I'm sure as hell know they do business with US banks and credit card companies like Visa.

its not a cartoon its the presentation of sexual explict acts it be in human form or not.

please try to think outside your little box.

:eek7





678

please respond to my last question host head sig whore

SOLUTION TO THIS ISSUE:
Host outside the United States, and get yourself an office, condo, shack or hut on the beach in another country, and have that as your official business address. That way neither your host nor your business are in the United States.

Great Idea we will all just run out in a matter of a month or so and set up shop no problems:thumbsup

:1orglaugh

Had I thought you would understand a cut and dry / black on white answer I would have provided you one.

:eek7 <------ I love this smiley best. It really does say it all doesn't it??

Oh thats right your the guy I spoke to about hosting over at Host head.
To bad I did go with another host for you they had a way better deal than yours by the way.
Oh and its dedicated rather than what you had to offer for twice as much!

"(2) A secondary producer is any person who produces, assembles, manufactures, publishes, duplicates, reproduces, or reissues a book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally- or computer- manipulated image, picture, or other matter intended for commercial distribution that contains a visual depiction of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct, or who inserts on a computer site or service a digital image of, or otherwise manages the
sexually explicit content of a computer site or service that contains a visual depiction of an actual human being engaged in actual sexually explicit conduct, including any person who enters into a contract, agreement, or conspiracy to do any of the foregoing."

Cartoon depictions are exempt since they are not actual human beings.

You are exempt if all you do is link to porn on other sites, just so long as you are not hosting nor publishing any on your own site.

I hope that clears up a couple things. :thumbsup

This is obviously the mentality of this industry!

1) You never spoke with me.
2) Glad you found a deal.
3) Doubtful, but congrats if that is the case

But, regardless of the deal you got, they are not responsible for your 2257.

You'd think, but I've had already simply explained these points to this retard a dozen times already.

Bloomer, you are a fucking idiot.

You should really get yourself a lawyer, or at least learn how to read.

you people just dont quite understand that the UNITED STATES GOVERMENT DOES NOT WANT PORN VIA THE INTERNET!

They will be persistent in there efforts until they totally eliminate such things!

Also you have to realize that the system in the U.S.A. can be slow as fuck but they will eventually find a way to profit off of it before they blow that shit up!

The U.S. will drag it into the mud and back out into the open again and again until they get er done!

LOOK WHAT WE DO TO OTHER COUNTRIES!

I know, but I felt obligated to post some actual text and highlight the relevant parts to ensure that anyone else who reads this thread has a clear (as possible) understanding of what 2257 is about. Now's not a time for misinformation, but rather a time to share ideas and resources on how those who are not compliant can become so (if they choose to).

Yes I understand and you color coded explaination is better than my attempts. It's frustrating when you are trying to help somone understand and they refuse to see what you are talking about.

OMG!! Dude seriously - an ID for a cartoon? Where would one get one?
:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :upsidedow :upsidedow :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

whatever people Im glad you can stick together on this and shoot the messenger :thumbsup

BANNED FROM THIS THREAD! Ha ...

Good one Im the one who started this fucking thread assmunch!

As far as highlighting certain things read back to where I urged people not to read what others on this thread wrote but rather form there own opinions from factual law!

Im glad you all band together hope you can all do that when they knock on your door and lock you up for being so fucking smart!

Youll need a good lawyer better buy one from other countries though cause I doubt anyone in this one would help out in any case like this if it ever went to trial!

Oh and to the hostfriaek out here I hope you like your boring job sitting in an office out there in cali playing around on GFY all day cause pretty soon all youll be hosting is crap!

Not the government Bush and his Jesus freak followers. Just wait until if the GOP nominates that Mormon dude. Trust me if any of the DEM nomimees gets elected President the the "war on porn" will go away. They realize every man looking for pornographers to bust is one less man looking for a terrorist planning the next 9-11.

At any rate it doesn't matter if the government want sto stop internet porn. The 2257 rules doesn't give them carte blanche to bust porn sites that are all text or feature anime porn. If they did they'd lose in court and run the risk of getting the whole 2257 law overturned.

Um...Sands did show you the FACTUAL LAW. It was right from the actual code.

I swear right now some village is wondering where it's idiot wandered off to.

Bloomer, it's very easy to shoot the messenger when his message is wrong. I understand the purpose of this thread, and it's cool that you're bringing attention to the 2257 situation, but you've been expressing gross misinterpretations of these regulations and quite frankly, given the sensitive nature and grave importance of the issue, it really cannot be tolerated. There are a lot of people who visit these forums, like myself, who are secondary producers, who are very worried about 2257, and who need factual and correct information that they can use to decide on their next course of action. Rather than turn this into a flame war, or let it degrade into a political diatribe against the US, maybe we should put forth a productive discussion so that the numerous readers will actually get something out of this thread rather than cheap entertainment.

Whoa. Are you really that dense? Is the artist supposed to draw up little ID cards and model agreements with each set he draws?

The law clearly specifies "ACTUAL HUMAN BEING". Last time I checked, cartoons didn't fall in to that category. I'll check again, to be sure.

http://www.dcgiftshop.com/Product_Im...-Rod-Chase.jpg
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/haventoh...es/hh0050s.jpg
http://www.montefortefireworks.com/i...the%20Free.jpg
http://www.northernsun.com/images/thumb/1905BT.jpg
http://www.daubertontheweb.com/uploa...lag-737799.gif

Alright, I checked. Nothing has changed. Cartoons still aren't actual human beings. Sorry, Bloomer.

Why dont you get a grip and realize that its impossible to produce documentation for fictional characters and thats not what Im saying here its about the presentation of sexually explicit content fictionally depicted or not !
Oh and take a long walk of a short water fall up there in NIARGRA!
http://www.guidesulysse.com/avo/cartes/Canada.jpg

Um....

Originally Posted by GatorB
I think Bloomer fails to get this part. I supect Bloomer thinks you need 2257 docs for anime porn too.

Originally Posted by Bloomer
Tell me where in the law book it says that you dont!

Not sure if this is completely true, but I would certainly hope so.

Hell, I even find it a little hard to believe that the Republicans have such totally ass backwards priorities.

YOU=OWNED!!!

From a 2005 article

"Bush administration stepping up obscenity prosecutions

Since 2001, 40 people and businesses have been convicted and 20 additional indictments are pending, said Andrew Oosterbaan, chief of the Justice Department's child exploitation and obscenity section. By comparison, there were four such prosecutions during the eight years of the Clinton administration, he said. "