Lanceman

Warning-This thread is for Webmasters only.

If you are drunk and want to ramble about the movie you saw last night go away! This is only for people who want to make serious money not lose sales.........

1.If you have just signed onto this please see all other posts on codec redirects.I.E webmasters getting fucked!
2.Please leave contact info and lets all work together on this!
3.If we do this the next step is to....... Leave your Ideas as well.....
4.Together we stand!

MrPinks

I'm in. Joe from mrpinks.com

My email

Lanceman

If any of you have a question to what this may be......

This was taken from another thread it pretty well defines the purpose:

Why can't we form a group, say the " anti spyware coalition ". Why can't affiliates donate $50 a month to this and sponsors donate $500 a month.

If just 100 affiliates anti up and just 10 sponsors that is $10,000 a month. apoint a board, hire a couple full time well qualified anti spyware people to start working on this. 10K a month should hire a couple really qualified people.

the more people who join the group the lower we can reduce the fees. $50 x 100 is the same as 1000 x $5 so fees could be lowered as more people join and/or more people could be hired to work on it.

If you make even $1,000 a month what is $50 to help fight this. Sponsors, if you make millions a month what is $500 ?

will76

you can count me in ofcourse

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ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

Lanceman

Yes man you are the land mark!!!!!! I give all the credit to you for coming up with this brilliant Idea!!!

Also I give credit to Pornonada for his great words and inspiration
and all others who will stand up!!!!!!!

Lanceman

Who eles will sign up to this?

We only need a small group of lets say 20 webmasters to get this rolling!

tony286

Who is going to collect this money?

Lanceman

Good Question.

This is a very new Idea first we have to get alot of people on board.
All the legal type stuff will be handled accordingly

I promise everyone involved your cost will be minimal for the way we plan to revolutionize.

Bama

My first thought questions to pose would be:

• What do you plan to do with the donated money?
• Why?
• What purpose would that serve?
• What difference do you think you could make?
• What steps would you take to implement that plan?
• Who would be in charge of implementing that plan?
• What experience does that person have?
• Other than donating funds, what part would other webmasters have to play in the success of the plan?

Nodtveidt

If you think that you stand a chance against the corruption that is spyware, then I'll show my support as well. Contact info is in sig.

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ICQ: 11541913

JD

my only concern is who is collecting the $ and why should I trust them

will76

I will elaberate on this and I appreciate lanceman trying to generate interest.

This is an idea that I just threw out there, it wasn't thought about for days, bounced off of others, etc... So nothing is set in stone. Off the top of my head this is what I think.

The person or entity incharge of handling the money would have to be someone you can trust just like you trust ccbill to hold your money they collect from all the charges spent on your membership site. The person / entity would have to be trusted without a doubt by everyone. I don't think who is as important as long as the person or entity fits the standard mentioned above.

What to do with the money? Research and education. Hire someone full time to research and investigate the various different types of spyware programs that are running out there, starting with the ones that appear to be doing the most damage. Identify how they work, which sponsors use them, and try to develop ways to fight them. If possible, work with anti virus software companies and share info with them and see if they can include updates that would clean people's pcs from which ever spyware trojan was attacking us. I would have to think if the spyware is not apparent to the end user and it only fucks affiliates that there is a good chance norton, spybot search and destroy, etc.. don't have it included in the software.

I think the WHY? and What purpose would that serve ? were answered above as well.

Steps to impliment plan/who would be in charge, etc..: Have a board of 5 - 6 people elected by their peers to help set this up. Get an attorney involved to make sure everything is set up 100% legally with safe gaurds, find out what can be said what can't be said, etc... Locate a company or individual to do the work, Contact others like Ben Elderman to help provide information or anything he can share with us.

Other than donating funds, what part would other webmasters have to play in the success of the plan? Reporting any spyware they come across, reading the information that is gathered and posted on the site. I would hope people would stay away from companies that are found to support spyware but that would be a decission for each individual to make.

Please don't drill me on my replies, these are ideas I am throwing on the table which if someone has a better idea or way to do it please share, but if you have nothig but negativity to post, please don't waste your time.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

Bama

Hey Will,

No one should drill you - you're putting forth a valid concern and asking for input from others. The smartest people (I think) have no problem saying "I don't have all the answers" - but "what if we...".

Now, let me preface my next few paragraphs with some information that is pretty well known but rarely spoken about.

I am the inventor of spyware. There is a *very* long story and I won't go into all of the details that get you from the beginnings of spyware to where we are today - but suffice it to say, it all points back to me.

One of the things I mentioned to a program owner this evening that I was speaking to was this: If I invented the disease, you have to know I also have the cure - and I do. I just haven't performed any inoculations for anyone as of yet. I'll come back to what I'm about to say but for now suffice it to say I can spyware proof any webmaster affiliate program - and currently, none of them are.

Now (and please don't take this as being a slam) as you approached the topic, research on various spyware applications is irrelevant. I can nullify any version of any spyware application.

It gets more complicated if you should want to approach mainstream affiliate programs and search engine insertions but I'm not addressing those programs right now - I'm only speaking to the adult community for now.

Education is always valuable and that can certainly be provided to the surfer.

If there is enough of an interest in webmaster programs wanting inoculation for their affiliates - I can provide the cure. It is up to the individual webmasters to ask program owners to inoculate their program.

One thing I will say about my inventing spyware is this. What you see today and what I designed are different only in that while what I created is much more devious, it wasn't malicious like you see today - so enacting some revenge by outing them and killing their revenue sources would be bitter sweet.

If program owners want to discuss their program being inoculated, they can contact me via ICQ 269-762.

scottybuzz

if everything gets sorted and done professionaly, id be more than happy to donate $50 a month. but im not going to be epassing that money to some random account.

someone has to take the time to set it up properly

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jonpotz

hire a programmer that will create a virus that removes the spyware...that is the answer...

he wouldn't even get in trouble since his virus is helping people....so many holes in MS it would be a sinch...

jonpotz

shit, u pay me enough and i'll create the virus.

Lanceman

What this thread was made for was for any webmasters out there who would like to sign on to this Malitia!

There are strength in numbers and like any good Malitia we have to get organized................

Lanceman

First of all I would like to thank you for comming forward.

Secondly you are correct if we as webmasters want to change the way things are done in the adult community all the sponsors need to get with you on this!

Thirdly the revenue that a program like this could produce would certainly compensate for any funds that are being shaved from hard working Webmasters. I.E.this redirection of sales.

Let me also point out that all sponsors would be crazy to turn down an offer like this.
This is their chance to make steady millions instead of shady tens

and then some.......

Everyone would benifit even you if you are truley who you say you are!

will76

I would suggest making a thread for your post so it gets more attention. " I created spyware - want me to fix it" should get about 10 page views and I am sure every program owner would see it, in this thread very few are likely to see it.

Education is good for the surfer AND for affiliates. Educating affiliates is more of what I had in mind.

So if someone contacted you to create a spyware program for them would you? Or are you just on the good side of the fence now? I've always assumed some anti virus companies had started at least a few viruses in the past, seems like the more viruses the better it is for business for them. I hope you aren't trying to work both side of the fence here.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

pornonada

i'am in as well:

contact:
webmaster [at] pornoanda [dot] com
ICQ: 50-898-326

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Lanceman

Great thanks everyone for responding to this like I said first we have to get alot of people of this wagon.

Then organize it all and hit up the sponsors with our Ideas

Please list all Ideas here:

Bama

I don't make a habit of having to find projects - they find me and a thread such as that would be presumptuous on my part because it is not my place to decide when the market is ready for the cure - that's up to the webmaster community to say to program owners "I've had enough" and ask them to change. Until that time it's not likely that you'll see any significant market-wide fixes and that is what I do - market wide changes.

Spyware costs webmasters money not program owners so the incentive isn't there for them. They're going to cut a referral check for a join so who they pay isn't as big of a factor as you might think. It's much like spam: publicly it's not acceptable but if the joins are there and the negative response limited... well, you can draw your own conclusions and if need be, you can borrow my etch-a-sketch to do so.

Interestingly enough, many program owners know that I can fix things for their webmasters but to date, only 2 have asked me about it and if you noticed in my initial post I said if there was enough of an interest I would get involved.

I believe the coalition would be best served bringing enough webmasters together and approaching program owners as a group.

And, FYI, no, I'll not sell another license of the software.

fetishblog

That's brilliant! If you think he won't get in trouble, think again.

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jayeff

I pop up on most threads, here and on other boards, which involve business ethics, professionalism, long-term vs short-term thinking, etc. But just as I didn't support FSC when it was proposed (or proposed itself, I forget which) as our savior for dealing with 2257, I won't support this. Here's why:

1. Probably within the next 5 years this industry will create a professional association both to set standards for and protect the interests of "legitimate" webmasters. It may take another 5 years for such an association to become fairly effective, but it will happen because it's an inevitable development of any maturing industry. And the sooner it happens, the better. My main objection to groups formed to deal with specific issues is that if they work they may postpone the day we finally create the body we really need, by reducing the perception of that need. If they fail to acheive whatever their objectives are, they make people more cynical than they are anyway and again make it harder to float the concept of that broader body.
2. On and off the 'net my experience is entirely negative when it comes to enthusiastic first reactions to issues which bother people. Passion is all well and good, it is a necessary part of anything which is likely to be an uphill struggle. But there is a world of difference between instant emotional responses and the kind of long-term committment which most things of this kind need.
3. As soon as someone asks more than the broadest of questions (such as "Would anyone be interested in talking about a group to deal with...?"), the perception shifts from that of an association of and for its members, to that of an organisation headed by the speaker. That dramatically reduces the chance of acceptance, because even if the speaker plans to hand over the reins as soon as the thing is under way, people are going to raise questions about trust, etc, etc. Particularly in an environment which makes real personal contact and knowledge difficult, that credibility gap is unlikely to be closed.

I don't doubt this thread is well-intentioned and I wish you luck. But in the same way that failed attempts to quit smoking make it harder to believe subsequent attempts will succeed, it is important at this stage of our industry that anything we do like this must have a very good chance of being successful. So far I don't see the signs that this fits the bill.

Lanceman

Once again thank you
I started this post in order to produce that exact format.

How long it will take is the question.So far its been a day or so

There are quite a few blind webmasters that dont realize what exactly is going on here with "The Big Picture"

Hopefully this thread will make them aware of the problem...

Another good question may be........

How much does any one sponsor profit from using this kind of spyware redirection ?

Also can we as webmasters override this profit with a more stable beneficial margin?

I do believe we can...............

Lanceman

I do realize that every industry has a direction and here is the direction we as webmasters have been pointed in!
For too long now we have worked our fingers off creating accounts and also sites to produce personal cash flow.

Only to find out that most sponsors (not all)......
Promote this kind of fraudulent activity!

We have been left in the dark thinking we are going to make money and then its robbed out from under us!
By some greedy whore!

Why should we wait?
For change.
The time is now to stand and promote justice!

I only feel bad for those who are unaware.

Grand Master T

hurro?? hurro???

will76

I look at it differently. I think things have a better chance of happening through a progression. Group forms to fight spyware, than can add other issues till it becomes what you are talking about.

If we can't get a group of people to organize to fight people stealing from us I don't think we will ever get an entity to form like you are talking about. I think the chaces of us going from no organizations what so over to one big one out of no where is 1:1000 . I like the group you are talking about and I agree we need it, but I not optimistic it is going to happen one day unless we take small steps to get there.

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

JD

just sent this thread to every rep I have in my contact list

JD

ps: imho any program that DOESN'T spyware proof their shit is just another one of the enemies...

Theo

What everyone needs to understand is that if they cant directly profit from a site, aff.program or any other web operation they can send that traffic to a source that is willing to receive it and pay for that. Several PPC companies don't mind hijacked traffic for example.

JD

c'mon fuckers. bump!

BigCashCrew

I'm ready to start taking the small steps to get there.
Errol

Bama

While I applaud your ideals, this will most likely will never happen. Any such association would have to be globally aligned and have powers of consequence - something not even 10 years from now will certainly not see. I don't think many people look at the U.N. as being a success story of world policy and the whole trade embargo to punish the bad doers into submission is an overly successful or timely approach to solving differences in operations.

This industry is dollar driven and no association or committee is going to change that because agreement between the masses will never be achieved. Only that which directly and immediately effects the pocket-book will drive change.

Step back for a moment and ponder these 2 questions separately:

• If I owned a webmaster program and I had an affiliate sending me a LOT of joins that I believe were generated from the use of distributed spyware and to date no one knew about this so I wasn't suffering negative press - would I cancel their account?
• All of the other webmasters want to boycot Sponsor A until they spyware proof their webmaster program but they're my highest earning sponsor. I feed my family and buy my toys from the money earned from this sponsor and changing over to Sponsor B would be a pain in the ass and probably not earn me as much - would you pull your links?

The waters muddy pretty quickly don't they? Sure, the bottom performers won't have any problem switching but it isn't the bottom performers who will dictate the actual change.

So the immediate problem only has 2 solutions:

Gather a list of high profile high producing webmasters that can lead the charge who can also pledge to answer yes to question 2 above and then approach a sponsor with an "Either you _______ or we (and this group of affiliates _______".

Sponsors just go ahead and do ____________ and side step the issue altogether.

will76

Most affiliate companies probably would not cancel the affiliate until it was made public then they would say " wow we didnt know, thanks for pointing it out". This is one of the main reasons behind the group I think that needs to be formed. Spyware companies, trojans, even the little pricks in mama's basement need to be identified and the programs they are pushing needs to also be identified and all of that information needs to be made public.

I would take great pleasure in costing the spyware installing fuckers money and causing them trouble. If they move from company to company and keep getting their accounts closed down and they don't get paid, I am costing them money too. HAHAHA fuckers now you know how it feels. You cost me money, I cost you money. Even if it just cost them a couple thousand here or there I know it has to burn their ass, even just a little to know that some prick (me) complained about them and got their affiliate account shut down and they lost that money. Then they have to signup to another program and change links, etc..

Did you hear about that little bilket asshole who created a virus for yahoo chat, it infected other users and before you know it thousands of accounts were infecting other accounts posting his links. People out'ed him here and sponsor after sponsor shut him down. He most have switched through 20 of them. It was funny watching him make post bitching that sponsor " abc " shut him down and wouldn't pay. Then the info on what he was doing was public so it was obvious why his accounts were closed.


I don't know about boycotting a sponsor because they don't spy proof their program. How do we really know if they do that or not anyway. From OUR standpoint, we expect them to close down accounts when they are reported. If they did more or less it most likely wouldn't be transparent to us anyway.

I will boycott a sponsor for using spyware. I think everyone knows my stance on that. Most people spread their joins out so much it wouldn't be a big deal to drop a company or two and replace them with someone else. I also don't think the drop off in income from 1 company to the next is that much. There really is no guarantee you would lose money, the new sponsor might make you more. How many people have tried them all, i doubt anyone has. So you really don't know if your "best one" really is the best one out there. I also hear a lot of people crying about how bad their sales are lately from these big companies (that accept spyware).

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ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

Lanceman

Again you are correct in what you stated.

Change is inevitable at this point.

I am not sure how many webmasters are even aware that this type of stuff actually goes on but the bottom line is it does.

Why should anyone settle for table scraps when they could eat the whole meal?

Unfortunately alot of people settle on it..I.E. "Hey I made my first sale"!

What they dont realize is buy the time they made their first sale there little website probrably made alot of other sales for alot of other people too......

Now Imagine this on a much larger scale!
I.E. someone who has say 20 plus sites and was making say and good amount of cash 2 years ago is now noticing a loss!

This is the reason why there are so many cheaters in the first place!

Why are so many sponsors allowing this to continue to happen?

The bottom line is money!

Its of no wonder that these sponsors have the money to run contests with
$60,000 dollar car prizes.............

I hardly believe they generate all that money from the 30% they make on a sale from hard working webmasters sites.

That is the exact reason that this group should be formed!
For that exact reason..................

Lanceman

Orginized porn you gotta love it!!!!!!!

Mr Pheer

I've known Bama online since late '96 when him and PK would dry hump each other on ynot parachat. And I think his arms and legs should be broken. Fuck him. He created this shit, why would anyone want to work with the fuckin shitbag to fix it.

Hey I'll poison you all and then sell you the antidote.

Fuck working with him, band together and start a civil action agaisnt the fuckin prick instead.

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jayeff

Any ideals I ever had were knocked out of me 40 years ago. I didn't write "should", or "perhaps", or "I believe". I wrote that "this industry will create a professional association". And it will do so for exactly the same reason as every other industry - formally or informally - has done: because people at the top decide that order is in their best interests. The timing I suggested is a guess, but all industries go through the exact same cycles and there is no reason whatever to believe online porn will prove unique.

When your income is $100K a year, it can be worth scamming someone out of $1K. When your income rises to $1M a year, a scam which nets $10K is hardly worth the bother. That simple reality changes who your victims must be: you can no longer scam the small-fry no-one cares about, who are too numerous and lack the means and will to organize.

The cynics who say that business is only about money are right. But they are absolutely wrong when they say that because of that, anything goes. That is only true so long as those who do have the clout to pull things together, are not themselves victims of instability. I don't imagine any of the early cattle or oil barons believed they would soon be footnotes in the histories of their industries, but economic inevitabilities pay no attention to human arrogance.

Lanceman

I would have to stay I understand where you are coming from on this and Im sure alot of others would agree!

However I strongly urge Everyone on this to stay neutral/Stay positive!

This Colation/Malitia of webmasters should not make deals with say anyone sponsor/group or inventor of any type of internet cancer!

We are organizing here to prevent spyware not just in this industry but everywhere!

In this industry I would like to see sponsors that do not support such things but thus far I have not found too many out here that will or will not admit what actually is going on.

You have to realize that from what this guy originally designed has gone through many many different variations since then.

At this point Im sure it has found its purpose and quite a few people have utilized it for profits

Much like a Flu Virus I.E. Every year it changes and that is exactly why I have never believed in the Flu vaccine.
Why should I get shot up with last years Flu?

What these sponsors should actually try to realize is this industry has gotten quite the bad wrap for this exact reason!

I.E. a neighbor of mines computer was so fucked up from viruses it crashed.
He blamed his wife who was addicted to downloading porn!

Because of this it has caused a wide spread panic in surfers not trusting this industry.Most people I would say are afraid that even if they sign up for porn they could ultimately loose the use of their computers.

This in turn will rise questions within the family as the spouse picks up the system at the local comp repair shop and finds out why the computer crashed in the first place.

This is cant be good!

So with that said I think if a surfer knows he is protected in the first place he or she would be more adapt to delve into the industry rather than shy away from it!

Resulting in more sales...............Ultimately.

Pleasurepays

he didn't do anything to anyone in this biz. general apathy, individualistic, rebellious - "fuck you" attitudes and general incompetence did. suing the creator of a piece of software is a futile and rediculous waste of time, when you can get right to the point and start protecting people, traffic and programs from that type of software.

this is an interesting discussion. it was intended as a discussion of solutions, not mindless and immature retribution.

Lanceman

Exactly and with that said:

I urge everyone to stay positive!

Lets not start accusing people or groups lets stick to the facts.

By now if you have read and understood what this is all about you know that this is about :

1.Organization of a large number of Webmasters who are sick of loosing money.
2.Creative thinking,new ideas,ways to get this going.
3.Better profits for everyone in this industry
4.A better experience for the surfer
5.A better reputation for this industry
6.Change

JD

what I find SUPER fucking funny is I blasted this out to a rather large list of reps /owers and this thread has YET to hit 50 replies... so far all i've got from anyone is "checking it out" Errol was the only one that actually gave a shit lol

Lanceman

You have to remember that you cant expect them to stand up and admit to this kind of activity.

Otherwise they all would be incriminating themselves.

I also would be leary of the ones that do stand up and shout if anything this thread will hopefully let both sides of the fence know the truth!

Ultimately this should produce change!

You also have to realize this is VERY BIG and TOP SECRET stuff that will probably never be brought out and confirmed as fact.

At best We can only hope for a fair shake

12clicks

hey Bama, how you been?


this is the entire key of the thread. It's why this idea and all others will never come to fruition.

its fun to dream though.

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Bama

Hey 12Clicks,

Yes, I'd have to agree with you that nothing will come of any of this and I knew it before I made my first post but I couldn't resist seeing where the marketplace was in this matter.

After 24 hours not 1 webmaster program contacted me for no other reason to see where I was coming from. That in itself should tell folks things.

McPheer - sorry but I have absolutely no recollection of who you are, but you seem to have some intense pent up (and misplaced) anger. What's happening is no more my fault than a knife manufacturer being sued because someone decides to commit murder using their brand of product.

JD

that's some sad shit.... I sent this thread to loads of programs and requested that they contact you. fucking lame

will76

oh well i guess they wouldn't be interested in contributing money either.

I think the only way this will ever get going is if one person dedicates 100% of their own time and money on it and just runs with it, once they establish a good service and it is opperational i think people will come to it, contribute etc...

I will am willing give some of my time and money to this project but I can't be the person who does all the work. Unfortunetly i think this is the most likely way something will ever been done.

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ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

Gaybucks

We are definitely interested, but I agree with some of the other thoughts that perhaps establishing something that could later grow into a best practices industry association might be more beneficial in the long run than just a "stop malware" group.

Perhaps people interested should have a meeting at Phoenix Forum and toss around ideas in an open setting??

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ICQ 272-995-402

Lanceman

Due to the overwelming resonse from all our sponsors:

The following is going to be set into motion!

Any Sponsor or host being found involved in the past 3 years in this industry in any form of spyware/virus supporting intentional or otherwise will be reported to the proper authorities......
-WARNING-
Your involvement in this type of thing will bring this upon you!

Go ahead and make your jokes.

The day is soon.