kind of sound like DiNero talking to Pachino during the cafe scene in Heat. Great flick.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

JR,

Long time no talk...

Let me know if we can help at all.

Thanks

Todd

Ive spoken to designers who have told me they dont submit galleries because they cant make money from them but then offer you to make them for $15.
Allways ask a designer to show you work that they made money from if they cant find one who can.

A good designer should be able to write creatively. That's why 'design and marketing' are spoken of together so often. To the dude in this or the other thread who said 'its not my job to be an english teacher'?!?!? wtf?!?!? If you are designing sites for an english speaking audience ... YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO WRITE ENGLISH!!!

I have just read 2 threads of people bitching about how much designers suck, and several of the people in the thread are the same ones who don't want to pay more than $10 for a tgp template or $300 for a paysite tour.

For every shit designer out there, there's an even shittier client.

- Can't make up their mind what they want
- Don't pay bills when they say they've been paid
- Provide info AFTER design is complete
- Don't get info to you in time despite booking in your time
- Get you to do work then take it to a cheaper designer to replicate
- Expect work to be done urgently then take almost 4 weeks to pay

I wouldn't consider myself one of the best designers, but I certainly don't suck and I will walk away from any job where the client is any of the above.

I wrote this article a few months ago with some tips for working with designers.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=700443

I hope it helps and that you find someone good to work with soon ;-)

Interesting read sire.

I don't disagree that most of your claims are true with a good percentage of designers, but I get pretty sick of hearing people saying designers charge to much nothing special, no creativity yada yada yada.. You get what you pay for.. If it is so easy to do then why don't you do it your damn self.

Fact most of the good designers pay attention to whiners that cant ever seem to get what they want and stay clear.

written well and i agree, sh*tty designers belongs to sh*tty companies. anyway maybe can be word sh*tty replaced by new. everyone have to start somewhere with something :2 cents:

This is why I rarely do design work for people.

50 lushes :upsidedow

First at all: What is a good design ? I see bad designs even at award winners...
Most of the designs I see in the industry today aren´t made for surfers anymore, they are made to attract webmasters, that´s a fact !

You get what you pay for. Simple as that.
You hire someone shit you get shit layouts.

You hire the best, and you get the best.

If ONE guy is calling themselves a 'DESIGNER' and they do ART, CREATIVE WRITING, FULL CSS/HTML code...

They're a jack of all trades. 99% of these guys will NOT be good at the work they do. They'll be average at best.

Go to an artist for art, a writer for creative writing, and a coder for code. You'll pay more, but you'll be happier with your product.

We offer art... we also offer code. But I ALWAYS make sure people know that my coder is a seperate person who quotes seperate. He just exclusively works through me in the adult industry. I KNOW he's top notch, and I know him personally outside of the interweb, so I know he's a top guy too. I'd not use him unless I knew he was quality.

That's a load of rubbish. You may only be able to design, but there are MANY great designers who can write and program and do them well. Its called experience.

No 2 designers have exactly the same set of skills. You pick the designer who has the combination that you need most for your specific project. And picking someone who is just an artist is not going to get you a better design than picking someone who is a 'jack of all trades' as you call it.

Besides, who wants an artist creating their business brand? Artists do what they do for arts sake, not for business. The difference between an artist and a designer is the ability to sell & market the art work they produce into a commercial product. A designer who can't write is just an artist ... if all you want are pretty pictures, then that's who ya talk to.

Well sorry man, but I think you're talking shit too :)

Because I said 99%. Plus, I'd rather focus my time into the quality of the art I'm creating. Experience? Sorry man, I've been professionally doing art work for well over a decade, so you talking about experience is wrong.

I think you're creating an argument here that isn't there too ... you're saying because I'm an artist that I can't be a designer? I think you know full well that you're twisting the situation. I call myself an artist, because I create art. But do my clients think I can't design? Sorry... that's crap.

:)

I guess at the end of the day, it depends what you're looking for. I truly believe that most of the time, if you want the best, you gotta go dedicated. Otherwise that person is sharing their time and effort over multiple tasks. That said... I did say 99%. I didnt' say ALL. So there is a difference.

It's just my two cents :)

If I'm talking out of my 'artist' ass, just ignore me :P

:2 cents: