Bullshit billing practice? - GoFuckYourself.com

eru · 08-08-2002, 09:21 AM

I'm trying to order some clothes from http://www.cyberdog.net. Anyway, after sending in my order, they send me an email needing me to fax a copy of my bank statement to "prevent" fraud. Isn't this bullshit? Have any of you guys ever had to send in some weird form of ID to place a online order?

Frank W · 08-08-2002, 09:22 AM

Are you in Russia?

eru · 08-08-2002, 09:23 AM

I'm in USA -> they're located in the U.K.

ldinternet · 08-08-2002, 09:46 AM

Holy shit, I just hope you aren't planning to buy one of those jackets!
What the fuck?!

eru · 08-08-2002, 09:59 AM

No - I am *trying* to buy a pair of pants and two shirts. I choose more "conservative" items. I sent them an email with a ultimatem an hour ago:

"You
have my credit card info, you have my order; now let's put 2 and 2 together. Please send me my clothes

"

ldinternet · 08-08-2002, 10:01 AM

In the UK, eh? $500 and I'll have someone go break their thumbs for you. Head in a vice is $1500 each. ;-)))

eru · 08-08-2002, 10:05 AM

Go to their store and kick their british faces in..

ldinternet · 08-08-2002, 11:21 AM

Okay, I'll play. ;-)

The fact that these guys are in the UK may explain their high sensitivity towards 'fraud prevention'.

I'm not sure how the whole thing is addressed in the USA. But keep with me... a while back, I watched a documentary about online fraud and the Internet. Needless to say it was on British television (one of the cable channels - Bravo, I think). Not that I pick all my information from there but it was a useful source in understanding this.

There were a lot of complaints about the lack of police interest in online fraud, maily credit card fraud, on the Internet, in UK. It isn't treated the same as in the USA, it isn't considered to be "serious". Bascially... it was said that the police don't care, or do very little when it occurs. Of course, if someone happens to be caught, then it IS a big deal. One guy had opened an online electronics store and was using a third party service to verify the cards, and had all kinds of expensive security and security checks in place -- yet still had to close down because a huge percentage of his orders were fraudulent. The website was making a loss, even with the strictest security available. And it isn't like the police were showing any interest. How much truth there is in that, judge for yourself.

It is an explanation as to why they want to see your bank information -- it sucks, but to be seen from their side, they don't want to be in a position where they ship clothes abroad, then find that the money paid has gone back out of their bank account, a week later. All things considered it is still a bullshit billing policy, but not as bad as first impression would tell. Most likely it has happened to them before. Having people send bank details won't prevent all fraud all of the time, but they must find that it cuts down on the amount of it. I guess that is the issue they must address, and the policy they must employ, if their online store is to stay online.

Face to face credit card fraud (i.e, going into a store and using a fake card) is a big issue here ... there have been cases documented on Crime Watch (can be considered the UK version of AMW, I suppose) where there have been appeals to locate and/or name people caught on CCTV using fake cards to purchase goods. Internet fraud, not as big an issue for whatever reason. Most likely because previous attempts at prosecution have been unsuccessful, or not as successful as anticipated.

But hey... thats life.

eru · 08-08-2002, 01:07 PM

Oh well -- In my last email I basically told them to send my clothes or fuck off. Imagine if iBill, CCBill, and gang made it a requirement for porn surfers to send in a copy of their bank statement upon signing up for a site. That would suuuuuuuuure work out well.

Bank statements contain some very personal things. I don't know why this friggin' store can't just call the phone number of the billing address of the credit card -- MY credit card and MY billing address to verify that it is really me.

.:Frog:. · 08-08-2002, 01:24 PM

Seems rather strange. That website is silly, you fly in a space ship when selecting their links.

Jon · 08-08-2002, 01:46 PM

so youre basically saying, if you want free shit and dont wanna pay for it, order it on a uk site and the "bobbies" wont do shit about it?

08-08-2002, 09:21 AM	#1
eru Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hawai'i Posts: 2,612	Bullshit billing practice? I'm trying to order some clothes from http://www.cyberdog.net. Anyway, after sending in my order, they send me an email needing me to fax a copy of my bank statement to "prevent" fraud. Isn't this bullshit? Have any of you guys ever had to send in some weird form of ID to place a online order? __________________ <font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Verdana">This thread will self-destruct in 5 seconds.</font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Verdana"><br> <br> <font size="1">In the meantime, consider hosting with <a href="http://www.choopa.com"><font color="#00FF00">Choopa</font></a> -- The only provider with 9 x 1000mbps Transit Redundancy</font></font> Last edited by eru; 08-08-2002 at 09:25 AM..

08-08-2002, 09:22 AM	#2
Frank W Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: California Posts: 889	Are you in Russia? __________________ "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." -- Herman Hesse

08-08-2002, 09:23 AM	#3
eru Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hawai'i Posts: 2,612	I'm in USA -> they're located in the U.K. __________________ <font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Verdana">This thread will self-destruct in 5 seconds.</font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Verdana"><br> <br> <font size="1">In the meantime, consider hosting with <a href="http://www.choopa.com"><font color="#00FF00">Choopa</font></a> -- The only provider with 9 x 1000mbps Transit Redundancy</font></font>

08-08-2002, 09:59 AM	#5
eru Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hawai'i Posts: 2,612	No - I am trying to buy a pair of pants and two shirts. I choose more "conservative" items. I sent them an email with a ultimatem an hour ago: "You have my credit card info, you have my order; now let's put 2 and 2 together. Please send me my clothes " __________________ <font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Verdana">This thread will self-destruct in 5 seconds.</font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Verdana"><br> <br> <font size="1">In the meantime, consider hosting with <a href="http://www.choopa.com"><font color="#00FF00">Choopa</font></a> -- The only provider with 9 x 1000mbps Transit Redundancy</font></font>

08-08-2002, 10:05 AM	#7
eru Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hawai'i Posts: 2,612	Go to their store and kick their british faces in.. __________________ <font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Verdana">This thread will self-destruct in 5 seconds.</font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Verdana"><br> <br> <font size="1">In the meantime, consider hosting with <a href="http://www.choopa.com"><font color="#00FF00">Choopa</font></a> -- The only provider with 9 x 1000mbps Transit Redundancy</font></font>

08-08-2002, 09:46 AM	#4
ldinternet Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 8,245	Holy shit, I just hope you aren't planning to buy one of those jackets! What the fuck?!

08-08-2002, 10:01 AM	#6
ldinternet Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 8,245	In the UK, eh? $500 and I'll have someone go break their thumbs for you. Head in a vice is $1500 each. ;-)))

08-08-2002, 11:21 AM	#8
ldinternet Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 8,245	Okay, I'll play. ;-) The fact that these guys are in the UK may explain their high sensitivity towards 'fraud prevention'. I'm not sure how the whole thing is addressed in the USA. But keep with me... a while back, I watched a documentary about online fraud and the Internet. Needless to say it was on British television (one of the cable channels - Bravo, I think). Not that I pick all my information from there but it was a useful source in understanding this. There were a lot of complaints about the lack of police interest in online fraud, maily credit card fraud, on the Internet, in UK. It isn't treated the same as in the USA, it isn't considered to be "serious". Bascially... it was said that the police don't care, or do very little when it occurs. Of course, if someone happens to be caught, then it IS a big deal. One guy had opened an online electronics store and was using a third party service to verify the cards, and had all kinds of expensive security and security checks in place -- yet still had to close down because a huge percentage of his orders were fraudulent. The website was making a loss, even with the strictest security available. And it isn't like the police were showing any interest. How much truth there is in that, judge for yourself. It is an explanation as to why they want to see your bank information -- it sucks, but to be seen from their side, they don't want to be in a position where they ship clothes abroad, then find that the money paid has gone back out of their bank account, a week later. All things considered it is still a bullshit billing policy, but not as bad as first impression would tell. Most likely it has happened to them before. Having people send bank details won't prevent all fraud all of the time, but they must find that it cuts down on the amount of it. I guess that is the issue they must address, and the policy they must employ, if their online store is to stay online. Face to face credit card fraud (i.e, going into a store and using a fake card) is a big issue here ... there have been cases documented on Crime Watch (can be considered the UK version of AMW, I suppose) where there have been appeals to locate and/or name people caught on CCTV using fake cards to purchase goods. Internet fraud, not as big an issue for whatever reason. Most likely because previous attempts at prosecution have been unsuccessful, or not as successful as anticipated. But hey... thats life.

08-08-2002, 01:07 PM	#9
eru Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hawai'i Posts: 2,612	Oh well -- In my last email I basically told them to send my clothes or fuck off. Imagine if iBill, CCBill, and gang made it a requirement for porn surfers to send in a copy of their bank statement upon signing up for a site. That would suuuuuuuuure work out well. Bank statements contain some very personal things. I don't know why this friggin' store can't just call the phone number of the billing address of the credit card -- MY credit card and MY billing address to verify that it is really me. __________________ <font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Verdana">This thread will self-destruct in 5 seconds.</font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Verdana"><br> <br> <font size="1">In the meantime, consider hosting with <a href="http://www.choopa.com"><font color="#00FF00">Choopa</font></a> -- The only provider with 9 x 1000mbps Transit Redundancy</font></font>

08-08-2002, 01:24 PM	#10
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	Seems rather strange. That website is silly, you fly in a space ship when selecting their links.

08-08-2002, 01:46 PM	#11
Jon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 2,578	so youre basically saying, if you want free shit and dont wanna pay for it, order it on a uk site and the "bobbies" wont do shit about it? __________________ WickedFire.com - Stay here. We don't need more of you. Not unless you have money, then, fine...