wrong, its purely religion.

I'm pretty sure that Iran's nuclear facilities aren't long for this world. Hopefully they haven't built schools and hospitals right beside them.

I'm not really bound to agree with that it's only religion. What the US is doing is not soley based on religion, I can see some pretty obvious economic reasons.

They shouldnt be there, no soldiers should be anywhere infact

Who needs wikipedia.org - we've got FOX NEWS!!!

I hear they're preparing to show next war broadcast in 3D for ultimate entertainment value. A truck, McD valuemeal and a shotgun for those who register first.

How do you serve two masters?

Christ, I forgot about this.... if I have to hear the word "embedded" again I'm going to shoot my tv dead.

All through the Iraq thing, "embedded" this, "embedded" that... "we go live now to our correspondent embedded with the 9,871st inborne"

It was the buzzword of the war.

How can media people not know how retarded they sound sometimes?

Laughable position? My position is the same as a friend of mine who is a ballistics missile expert and worked at White Sands. Ever heard of it?

When you "are against war at all costs," you might as well lay down and be slaughtered, because there are terrorists and bad regimes in this world who intend to do real harm. A statement of weakness like that is a death wish.

If 9/11 didn't show you their intentions, I don't know what will.

Transcript of Osama bin Laden's Speech

Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed:

Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results.

Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.

If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them.

No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.

No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.

But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children - also in Iraq - as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.

So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?

Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.

This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.

And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.

You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.

The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?

If you were to avoid these reasons, you will have taken the correct path that will lead America to the security that it was in before September 11th. This concerned the causes of the war.

As for it's results, they have been, by the grace of Allah, positive and enormous, and have, by all standards, exceeded all expectations. This is due to many factors, chief among them, that we have found it difficult to deal with the Bush administration in light of the resemblance it bears to the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half which are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents.

Our experience with them is lengthy, and both types are replete with those who are characterised by pride, arrogance, greed and misappropriation of wealth. This resemblance began after the visits of Bush Sr. to the region.

At a time when some of our compatriots were dazzled by America and hoping that these visits would have an effect on our countries, all of a sudden he was affected by those monarchies and military regimes, and became envious of their remaining decades in their positions, to embezzle the public wealth of the nation without supervision or accounting.

So he took dictatorship and suppression of freedoms to his son and they named it the Patriot Act, under the pretence of fighting terrorism. In addition, Bush sanctioned the installing of sons as state governors, and didn't forget to import expertise in election fraud from the region's presidents to Florida to be made use of in moments of difficulty.

All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

All Praise is due to Allah.

So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah.

That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinises the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains.

Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results.

And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States, even if the intentions differ.

And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs. [When they pointed out that] for example, al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost - according to the lowest estimate - more than $500 billion.

Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs.

they said their first target would be Israel.

can't really do anything about it but sit back and watch the drama
hope the next president isn't as stupid/evil/whatever

i was talking about ahmednejad. we disagree on zango, but it's nice to see you agree that fascist iran is not only a threat to israel but the world.

what are you anti-semetic? accusing me of dual loyalty? take your jew hate elsewhere faggot.

Some of you seem to value one fundamentalist over the other. To me they're both a danger. Last time I checked it wasn't the Iranian leader who had killed 650,000 people in Iraq.

Of course Ahmadinejad is a nutjob, but he's just a clown controlled by the mullahs. The US will continue to paint him as a menace, refuse to engage him diplomatically, plant the same fake stories in the NY Times they did with WMD's and Ahmadinejad will use this to stoke the fires and before you know it, The US will have a mideast shitstorm like they've never seen before.

As I say, I don't think the American people realize how ugly it will get. When you have major Pentagon people and generals who rise up and speak publicly against the war with Iran, what does that tell you?

Bush and Cheney have singlehandedly changed America forever, destroying everything that has made the country great. And now they're set to make the world more unsafe than ever.

Allah help us.

the US will be in trouble.

NO

doing so would be a diffrent story .... but maybe they also think that you are subhuman and below the level of a cockroach ...just like what you think of Palestinians ....

Ya... I remember when they invaded California ... they killed all the babies .... :winkwink:

:1orglaugh

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/oa048.jpg

i just keep wondering what could really happen, i mean reality wise..

Man asks you how you can serve two masters and you accuse him of being anti-semtic???

You fucking peace of shit filthy jew inbred!!! That is EXACTLY why everybody hates you.

As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the mujahidin recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the bleed-until-bankruptcy plan - with Allah's permission.

It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is ... you.

It is the American people and their economy. And for the record, we had agreed with the Commander-General Muhammad Ataa, Allah have mercy on him, that all the operations should be carried out within 20 minutes, before Bush and his administration notice.

It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50,000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him.

But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers, we were given three times the period required to execute the operations - all praise is due to Allah.

And it's no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him: "All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction - assuming they exist - is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome."

But the darkness of the black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.

So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future. He fits the saying "like the naughty she-goat who used her hoof to dig up a knife from under the earth".

So I say to you, over 15,000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10,000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business.

Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons, also for money.

And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorise the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction.

Finally, it behoves you to reflect on the last wills and testaments of the thousands who left you on the 11th as they gestured in despair. They are important testaments, which should be studied and researched.

Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say: "How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision."

It is as if they were telling you, the people of America: "Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes."

And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry. "Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny."

As has been said: "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure."

And know that: "It is better to return to the truth than persist in error." And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House.

In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No.

Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security.

And Allah is our Guardian and Helper, while you have no Guardian or Helper. All peace be upon he who follows the Guidance.

... here we go ....

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

The only way the U.S.A will win a war against Iran is if Iran uses a nuke.

Modern American society is not ready to do what is needed to win a war with Iran. Sure you can pound them from the sky and mop some shit up on the ground with troops but unless you go 'Roman' you can't win.

This will be thier first and last one :pimp

Well if you are willing to except a cerian level of terrorism we could easily win a war aginst Iran. Just because Iraq is a fuck up dosn't mean our military sucks at war.

In fact the US is very good when it comes to war and planning it's the dip shits that try to police and occupy that fuck everything up. The US wiped the map with Iraq two times now, we beat the shit out of the Taliban in Afghanistan as well. Those are the kinda wars we like to win.

The problem comes in, with the whole occupying BS as that where we suck and so does most other countries armies. It's nothing to do with the US but history has shown time and time again that occupying forces always lose in the end.

The US would wipe the floor with Iran and Syria as long as we stuck to kicking the shit out of them like we did with Iraq in 91. It's the occupying BS that always screws you in the end. No modern army has ever been successful with a long term occupation of a country they were not wanted in.

The only diffrence is Iran would resort to terrorism outside it's boarders so it would be something that would have to be expected.

hates us? tell that to hollywood. :pimp

these threads always make me laugh.
knowing better than our leaders but not knowing enough to get out of mommy's house is soooooooo typical.

you're gonna get hundreds of thousands new little bin ladens breeding all over the middle east if you "kick the shit out of iran". the mess you've created in afghanistan and iraq as well as the non-stop israeli state terrorism vs palestinians breeds thousands of them already. is that what you want, do you think that will make you feel more secure?

i know pummeling iran into the ground before they get a chance to wipe us out will make me feel more secure. :)

and as far as breeding more terrorists - we make bombs and bullets at a faster rate than those rats can breed so i'm not too concerned. :pimp

Wow what an unbelievable, hypocritical piece of shit you are. A racist that calls other people "subhuman... no different than killing a feral dog" actually has the nerve to claim 'anti-semetic' (sic) in his defense.

why the jew hate? did a jewish bully take your lunch money when you were a kid? get over it. :2 cents:

lol, you disagree with me = i am brainwashed.

- iran doesn't need to protect themselves from isreal by getting nukes. If they want Isreal to leave them alone they will stop supply the terrorist to attack isreal. pretty fucking simple. Iran supports terrorist, terrorist attack isreal, iran gets nukes, give to terrorist who use on isreal and then tries to have denability, we didn't have anything to do with it, it was the terrorist, yeah sure it was.

I never compared iran's president to hitler, i don't know where you people get this shit from.

no smart ass, it was Kuwait and the world voted to go in and save kuwait, but like usual we had to anti up the majority money and troops.

No I just hate you and those with your hypocritical, racist perspective and speech. I would venture to guess you're just a kid repeating what some ignorant family members said behind closed doors not realizing how vile and disgusting it is.

They need to be set back. I don't think we need to occupy or
obliviate them, just make sure you take away their capabilities of doing mass distruction to the rest of the world. Set them back 20 years in those areas, if they try to make nukes or whatever the next WMD will be in the future hit them again and again till they stop trying to make WMDs. Air strikes with small strategic special forces should be all thats needed. Do what needs to be done and be done with it, no occupying forces or all that shit, we already have our land base in Iraq we don't need more realestate over there.

as usual, you are wrong:

I know it sounds good to you ears and fulfills your belief of the rightfull america, but really get informed.

So Iraq, with the tacit acknowledgement of the US ambassador, invaded Kuwait because of possible slant drilling .... What is so amazing....

THe USA, just last month, backed with arms and logistics the invasion of Somalia by Ethiopia... a war by proxy as the USA often does...

Let's say that the USA would have changed their mind ... so that would make Ethiopia the bad country ... :1orglaugh

Iraq is not the only one that invaded countries in the middle-east :2 cents:

The mess we have created? A good part of the reason the Middle East is such the shit hole it is, is because of the Europeans and colonialism. The US has only been fucking things up there for about 50 years. The French and the Brits have been fucking it up a lot longer than we have.

In fact the entire reason Iran started moving to an extreme Islamic state was because it was under British control.

You are right ... The old colonialism powers ( Brits & French ) have been fucking that region up for quite a while ... just like Vietnam, Cambodgia ( French ... ).

What is surprising is how the USA gets sucked in those places ... Foreign Policy 101 should be taught in US schools.:2 cents:

Where do you get 650,000 deaths from? That number is absurd.

95% of those killed in Iraq are killed by other IRAQIs not American forces so if you are accusing the USA of 650,000 deaths in Iraq #1 you are a liar because there havent been that many killed in Iraq and #2 its obvious you are an anti-American because you buy into enemy propaganda.

I hate people like you who flat out spread misinformation and LIE to further erode the United States with people around the world.

Did you copy this from somewhere or write this?

I think you took my comment wrong.

I could not agree more. We bomb and them and then we spend 10 years trying to buy their love and build them back up... Then we find a new victim.

Uh, those are transcripts from speeches Bin Laden has made, this guy just copied/pasted.

I see how you purposly avoided the " troops" part of my post, which was the main part of the conversation between us.

go run along and get a troop breakdown and come back and tell us how many US forces were there vs other countries.

I said they used the weapons against us, you made an asshole comment about them not invading california and killing babes. The point was them using the weapons against us and they did, money was just thrown in by me, maybe that wasn't correct. So go get those troop break downs and make sure to post them here.

Yeah, and it doesn't even matter who "they" are....

It sounds like if it was up to you there would be a chapter on " do nothing ".

just close your eyes the threat will go away, and by golly gee if he says he only wants nuke development for energy then we must believe him. Let's throw out intelligence, shut down the cia, take everyone's word for it and if we don't like what they doing we just close our eyes and not get involved.

in a way i was agreeing with you idiot.

why do you always say stuff like that? your a nobody too on the scale of everything, infact in the white house you will be classed as scum based on your occuption.

just let people debate instead of bringing in such useless comments.

Why hasn't anybody mentioned that Iran's motivations for having nuclear weapons may be to gain a stronger bargaining position:

no nukes = punching bag
has nukes (North Korea) = diplomatic talks