Why is it impossible for people to refund money when they don't do the work ?

[will76]

This just drives me fucking insaine.

You pay someone for work, they don't do it. It takes a fucking miracle to get them to send back the money.

I had this one fucker i paid through pay pal to do some work for me. Work is suppose to take 1 week to complete. Week goes by and no update, no reply he got the money nothing. I start sending emails, no reply. I issue a dispute with paypal after the 10th day. A few days later I get an email " Sorry I was in the hospital ". At this point it has been 2 weeks and I already hired someone else so I reply back " sorry to hear about your situation but since I did not hear from you I hired someone else.

The next thing I see is a reply from them in paypal contesting my dispute saying he did the work and i am lieing and he suggested to paypal that they shut down my pay pal account LOL.

Then he ICQ's me:

EBIZNOW (05:42 PM) :
hi
EBIZNOW (05:42 PM) :
can we talk ?
EBIZNOW (05:43 PM) :
hello
EBIZNOW (05:43 PM) :
anybody there ?
EBIZNOW (05:45 PM) :
can we talk ?
Will76 (05:46 PM) :
sure
Will76 (05:46 PM) :
are you going to make up more lies about me ?
EBIZNOW (05:47 PM) :
first of all
EBIZNOW (05:47 PM) :
Pls mind your language
EBIZNOW (05:47 PM) :
You used abuses in your mails while I was expecting some reply from you
Will76 (05:48 PM) :
you try to steal money from me, try to get my paypal account shut down, you make up lies and now you icq me to tell me to mind my language.
EBIZNOW (05:48 PM) :
whatever the case is, but I'm still willing to get going with the job
Will76 (05:48 PM) :
WHAT ?
EBIZNOW (05:48 PM) :
no it is no stealing
EBIZNOW (05:48 PM) :
yes
EBIZNOW (05:49 PM) :
I'm willing to finish the work
Will76 (05:49 PM) :
are you crazy? you emailed me 2 weeks later said you were in the hospitol but you told paypal you completed the work right after i sent payment
EBIZNOW (05:49 PM) :
so pls calm down
Will76 (05:49 PM) :
calm down, after what you wrote to paypal about me that you completed the job when you admit even now you didnt
EBIZNOW (05:50 PM) :
I'm not here for jokes etc ........... It was a technical answer for a technical question ............ nothing personal
Will76 (05:50 PM) :
you want me to so what, ok no big deal i will give you another chance ?
EBIZNOW (05:50 PM) :
sure you should
Will76 (05:50 PM) :
technical answer ? it was a lie
Will76 (05:51 PM) :
did you or did you not do the work ? no you didn't you said you did and you said my paypal account should be shut down
Will76 (05:51 PM) :
= technical answer ?
EBIZNOW (05:51 PM) :
withdraw the dispute, and I'll get started ............. that's what I wrote in my mail as well
EBIZNOW (05:51 PM) :
and didn't receive any reply from you
Will76 (05:52 PM) :
and my reply was no thanks, sorry to hear about your medical problems but you waited to long i found someone else. please refund the money for the work THAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE YET.
Will76 (05:52 PM) :
well i have screen shots of my mail to show otherwise
Will76 (05:52 PM) :
showing it was sent
EBIZNOW (05:52 PM) :
no such mail received by me ........... I swear on god
Will76 (05:52 PM) :
that gives you no excuse to make up lies about me and tell paypal that you already did the work
EBIZNOW (05:53 PM) :
come on ........... assign me some other work if you have one ........... and your payment will be justified
EBIZNOW (05:53 PM) :
doesn't that make sense \?
EBIZNOW (05:55 PM) :
Still there ?
Will76 (05:55 PM) :
no, you are not someone i want to do business with. sorry. I don't do busiiness with people who make up lies about me. people are a dime a dozen that can do the work i am looking for the last person i am going to give the work to is someone that is recommending to paypal that my account should be shut down and that you already did the work

EBIZNOW (05:56 PM) :
ok .......... don't do any new business with me if you don't trust me
EBIZNOW (05:56 PM) :
but
EBIZNOW (05:56 PM) :
give me a chance to settle the amount which is already paid
EBIZNOW (05:57 PM) :
ANY work will do
Will76 (05:58 PM) :
this conversation is over with and will be given to paypal, next time maybe you will act like a professional and refund the money. you did not email me for 2 weeks after i paid you, after the project was due for completion. next time just refund the persons money, what does it hurt you, you did no work, and move on. all of this just hurts yourself and is very poor business.



I don't understand, why is it like pulling fucking teeth to get people to refund your money, especially when they did no work ? I can understand if they did some work. This has happened to me several times with people. It's not about the money, which I will get back, I just can't understand why people act this way.

[LiveDose]

People don't surprise me anymore. I have dealt with so many weirdos in my lifetime that nothing shocks me. Sorry about that situation for you though.

[Evil E]

Because they are scammers.

Maybe you should pay after they deliver.

[xenigo]

My guess is that he doesn't have the money to give back to you.

[tony286]

thats very fucked up

[d00t]

that sucks for you will

find good people and hold on to them

[Sly]

He spent the money for the hospital.

Hospital = vacation in his native language.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Q: Why is it impossible for people to refund money when they don't do the work ?
+++++++++++

A: Because it has a good profit margin?!

[TampaToker]

How dare you not give him a second chance

[vvq]

Don't pay upfront unless you're dealing with a reputable business that has a good reputation.

[TeenCat]

maybe here can be some library with every possible information about people who are acting like this one, to prevent others against them. sh*t on them, those can be 20yo students who dont get what does it mean make money to have food for life. their parrents can kick their as*es

[Aussie Rebel]

Does he post here? If so whats his nick?

[PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE]

I generally always give refunds. A couple of people on GFY can attest to that.

Sure, sometimes I can't make the deadline for one reason or another, but once it has gotten too late, I just refund the money.

About 95% of the time, if I haven't been paid yet, and if I don't finish even close to on time, I just finish it as soon as I can and do it for free. Pete-KT can attest to that... He's gotten two free scripts because I've been to slow

[Antonio]

it's a well known fact that the hospitals are full with designers, programmers, and their family members

[TeenCat]

Originally Posted by Antonio

it's a well known fact that the hospitals are full with designers, programmers, and their family members

[bDok]

with paypal a goodthing to maybe try is next time you pay someone for work don't just transfer the money to their account. Have them make a payment button for you to click on as though you are purchasing something. Cause then you can claim you didn't get it and do a charge back I believe.

[Pink-AE]

Sorry to hear that..

Only do business with people who have a reputation to lose. That way they wont screw you over.

Where did you get this idiot from anyway? And post his site and/or business details here. Save everyone else the hassle of dealing with him.

Use people from GFY. From what I've seen its fairly tight nit and anyone doing dodgy shit like that wouldnt be gettin much work again.

And like said.. give payment only after service rendered. If he's legit he wouldn't mind that.

[dynastoned]

fuck assholes like that.

[notabook]

Dude, he swore on god. You should have gave him a cookie.

[PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE]

Is there no directory/accreditation site for adult companies?

[WiredGuy]

That's where escrow's are really useful.
WG

[Pink-AE]

Originally Posted by notabook

Dude, he swore on god. You should have gave him a cookie.

Cookkkk
iieee


*drool*

[OG LennyT]

Originally Posted by xenigo

My guess is that he doesn't have the money to give back to you.

exactly right

[Brujah]

Has anyone heard from AdultRMX?

[HighSociety]

remove the paypal request and he will do the work LOLOL a scammers favorite line, everyone knows when you remove it you can't start a new one. well most do anyway

[NoWhErE]

Well, its pretty obvious the reason why he didn't give back the money is because he probably spent it.

I find it funny that he thinks he can just do any work for you and everything will be fine even AFTER he recommended to Paypal that they shut down his account. Thats pretty fucking bold of him

[Nikki_Licks]

I guess that is another one to add to my shitlists. WhatI find so funny, is they dont care what people say about them. They think everything is turning up roses. Word of mouth and time will put him back at flipping burgers.

[salesman]

you think it's not about money ?
SURE IT IS ABOUT MONEY !

I buy and sell things, I know what people can do for money.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Antonio

it's a well known fact that the hospitals are full with designers, programmers, and their family members

[Peaches]

People really are screwed up. I do a lot of online lending and there are people who will take out a loan, then file bankruptcy. Yeah, the new bankruptcy laws are supposed to make it harder, but it really doesn't - just makes it harder for them to go Chapter 7. They can still go Chapter 13 easily and pay pennies on the dollar.

[will76]

Originally Posted by salesman

you think it's not about money ?
SURE IT IS ABOUT MONEY !

I buy and sell things, I know what people can do for money.

it was only $100. The time i wasted on this was worth more than the money. It really wasn't about the money.

He said the following to pay pal:

Originally Posted by Posted on paypal dispute

Hello Paypal team! The buyer in question met us over Rentacoder website (a project outsourcing portal), and when we asked him to escrow the funds at Rentacoder , he FORCED US to deal outside Rentacoder . Finally we agreed, took upfront payment, and delivered him the completed stuff via yousendit.com file transfer service on the 5th day of project award. On our conversation over ICQ instant messenger the buyer himself acknowledged the receipt of file, and said that he'll be paying for the next phase of project soon. Now we're really surprised to see his claim, and need your help to resolve the issue. He's not the only one, but in many cases, a few cunning buyers avail our services & get their job done; and then they simply disapear without making any payment at all, or putting the chargeback etc. We request you to identify & ban such users from using Paypal, and secure the genuine interests of we sellers. We're a reputed service-provider there at Rentacoder website (having 66 perfect ratings).

That is what got me pissed off. This was only $100, it was a data entry type job that anyone could do. Usually I stick to my programmers for the bigger jobs or at least go with someone that is highly recommended. I thought he was ok because of his rating on that site. But he managed to get me to do business with him off of the site so I couldn't go back and damage his rating there. I am really not familar with how those damn sites work.

Thanks for the funny replies, it was nice to get a good laugh.

I have given up on people in general, everyday I deal with people who don't do what they are suppose to do, or people who aren't worth a shit.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Peaches

People really are screwed up. I do a lot of online lending and there are people who will take out a loan, then file bankruptcy. Yeah, the new bankruptcy laws are supposed to make it harder, but it really doesn't - just makes it harder for them to go Chapter 7. They can still go Chapter 13 easily and pay pennies on the dollar.

i do some of that prosper stuff too, just havent in the last couple months.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by will76

i do some of that prosper stuff too, just havent in the last couple months.

You should have gone to the convention in San Fran a couple of weeks ago - very informative. Right now they're working on interest bearing accounts and a secondary market. Collection tactics was disappointing, but hopefully that's going to pick up soon, with progress given to the lenders.

A few of us also met with the guy who started zopa.com and they are looking to hit the states in the next 6-9 months. Different platform since you don't pick who you lend to - but still basically P2P lending.

[CDSmith]

Another will thread, cool.

A few thoughts....

So, stay away from "rentacoder".... yes? Or is he just an independant contractor listed there? Whatever, if they are supporting him they go on the shitlist too.

And... I see it's only $100, but one of the first things that occured to me here is why oh WHY do so many people pay up front to unknowns and unprovens? Why??

On the flipside of that last comment I must add -- why oh why do so many service people (designers, programmers, etc) flush their own reputations down the shitter, especially for a lousy fifty or a hundred bucks? I don't get it. Isn't doing long-term business and having repeat customers and word-of-mouth recommendations a good thing?

A $100 bucks in the US will get you what, about a 17 minute stay in the hospital. :D

[will76]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Another will thread, cool.

A few thoughts....

So, stay away from "rentacoder".... yes? Or is he just an independant contractor listed there? Whatever, if they are supporting him they go on the shitlist too.

And... I see it's only $100, but one of the first things that occured to me here is why oh WHY do so many people pay up front to unknowns and unprovens? Why??

On the flipside of that last comment I must add -- why oh why do so many service people (designers, programmers, etc) flush their own reputations down the shitter, especially for a lousy fifty or a hundred bucks? I don't get it. Isn't doing long-term business and having repeat customers and word-of-mouth recommendations a good thing?

A $100 bucks in the US will get you what, about a 17 minute stay in the hospital. :D

I was looking for cheap labor to do very easy work so i went to that site for it. I would use the site in the future next time I will make sure to stay on the site with the whole transaction. This was just like if i was buying somethign off of ebay but the guy suggested he close the auction and sell it to me directly, now i can't leave him bad feedback. So i learned my lesson on that fact, just because someone has good " feedback" doesnt mean they are good, that you have to still use the site so they have their feedback score on the line.

I would never pay someone up front that I did not know without having any recourse. I will get the money back through paypal, even if they didn't i would charge the shit back, but they will refund it back to me. I thought a few years back I was protected sending someone an epass payment, I found out the hard way on that one, that when you send epass it is the same as sending a wire transfer or cash. (which are two things I will never send upfront to someone i don't know.)

The things that baffles me is that people wont refund money. They think once it is in their hands it is theirs, period, regardless if they do the work or not. I don't think this person was on this site but I have had these type of problems from people who post here, or at least they use to.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Peaches

You should have gone to the convention in San Fran a couple of weeks ago - very informative. Right now they're working on interest bearing accounts and a secondary market. Collection tactics was disappointing, but hopefully that's going to pick up soon, with progress given to the lenders.

A few of us also met with the guy who started zopa.com and they are looking to hit the states in the next 6-9 months. Different platform since you don't pick who you lend to - but still basically P2P lending.

I would have liked to have gone. I am just so over worked right now it is a big deal for me to make time to go to the bathroom muchless a vacation/trip ;)

[will76]

i got my refund but i don't think the guy was kicked off of either site which is what i was hoping for.

[CrystaliZed]

Wow, that's shitty... And it's no wonder the honest people (like myself...) have a hard time landing jobs. Sucks getting screwed over! Either do the work right or refund the money if ya can't. You think that'd be easy for people to understand! hahaha... Atleast you got your money back tho.

[Snake Doctor]

This is kind of a double edge sword because designers/coders etc really get screwed around by people when trying to get paid, so they ask for payment up front.
Of course then you're taking a big risk paying them up front....kinda sucks.

Would be cool if there was some sort of adult industry credit rating service.
Company A always pays on time, company B makes you wait three weeks.
Designer A delivers on time or early, designer B dissapeared...etc

[PHP-CODER-FOR-HIRE]

Simple: he spent it.

[shahab6]

how much was the amount?

[will76]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Would be cool if there was some sort of adult industry credit rating service.
Company A always pays on time, company B makes you wait three weeks.
Designer A delivers on time or early, designer B dissapeared...etc

That is an idea i have had for a long time, maybe one day I will get around to making a system like that. Basically like an ebay score, but it represents the person for all his online business dealings, instead of it just being for one site like ebay, rentacoder, etc.. It would be a tricky system to do it right and make it effective and people to want to use it but i am sure it is possible.

[will76]

Originally Posted by shahab6

how much was the amount?

money really wasn't the issue, it was the principle. I would have beat the guy if he was in front of me making up all that shit and lieing about me like that. I can't stand people like that. It was only $100.

[k0nr4d]

paypal will not refund for intangible items

[will76]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

paypal will not refund for intangible items

I got the refund. I don't know how you explain that then.