Who believes there is any American Constitution left?

[MarkTiarra]

It grows weaker every day in my view. Things the current administration does especially worry me and certianly leave things open for horrible abuse by others later down the line.

Watch this if you give a shit to hear some truth. It's as well said as anything I've ever seen on the news:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=10020

[Phoenix]

there is no constitution when your govenerment is really run by the mafia
http://www.skepticfiles.org/misc3/gemston4.htm
This is file #4 of 4 for this document.

May, 1972: J. Edgar Hoover had the Gemstone File: threatened to expose
Dallas-JFK in an "anonymous" book, The Texas Mafia. Instead, someone put
sodium morphate in his apple pie. The corpse was carted away from his home
in the back seat of a V.W.--and his files were "burned" but some of them
got away.

May 28, 1972: First break-in at Watergate: McCord, Barker, Martinez,
Garcia, Gonzales, Sturgis, DeDiego and Pico stood guard outside. Hunt and
Liddy directed the operation from a (safe?) distance --across the street.
The object was to check on Onassis's two men to Democratic Party HQ: Larry
O'Brien and Spencer Oliver. (O'Brien chief "PR: client had been "Hughes";
Oliver's father worked for Onassis). McCord wire-tapped their phones.
But!!!! little did McCord know that the plumbers were being observed
by Hal Lipset, Katherine Graham's S.F. detective who had followed two of
the plumbers from Liz Dale's side in S.F. to Watergate. Lipset "watched in
amazement" as the Plumbers broke in and bugged the phones: then reported
back to his boss Katherine Graham. Lipset and Graham set the trap for the
Wtergaters when they returned to remove their bugs and equipment.

"The style of the old Holy Roman Empire: a slave nation paying tribute to
the conqueror."

October, 1973: Another "Holy War"--Israelis VS Arabs..

January, 1974: Joe Alioto grants Sunol Golf Course lease to Mafioso
Komano, Frattiano, Nuniz, Madiros, Abe Chapman and Neil Neilson. Alioto
sets up the Dallas murder squad in S.F. for more murders.

January 26, 1974: "Hughes" extradition trial cancelled in Reno by "Alioto
Mafia Web" Mafia Judge Thomson after Moses Lasky from Mafia Alioto's
California Crime Commission waves the forged "Howard Hughes" signature
under his nose.

Maheu "wins" his damage suit against "Hughes" his blackmail pay-off after
discussing Hughes' "Game Plan" for buying control of the U.S. by buying
politicians: governors, judges, senators and presidents.

February, 1974: Mafia Hearst's daughter Patty "kidnapped" by Lipset's SLA
in a fake terrorist action.

Martin Luther King's mother was murdered by a black student, a self
declared "Israelite"--"acting alone" who was escorted to the church by
somebody-- and who had a list of other mothers as targets. Next day the
target Shirley Chisholm got the message and rushed to sign off the DNC suit
against CREEP naming Francis L. Dale; she had been the last to hold out.

April 4, 1974: Mary McCarthy, a writer who had been given a copy of the
Gemstone file, said in an article in the New York Review of Books, that the
key to the formation of Liddy's Gemstone plan lay in the whereabouts and
activities of the Plumbers between December, 1971 and February, 1972.
Answer: They were in the Drift Inn, watching Gemstones rolling around on
the bar top.

August 6, 1974: Nixon and Ford signed a paper at the White House. It was
an agreement: Ford could be President. Nixon got to burn his tapes and
files and murder anyone he needed to cover it all up.

August 7, 1974: Roberts passed information to Pavlov at the S.F. Russian
Consulate which led directly to Nixon's resignation the "more" journalism
review's story about Denny Walsh's "Reopening of the Alioto Mafia Web story
for the New York Times, killed in a panic, plug a long taped discussion of
who and what the Mafia is. Hal Lipset listened to the conversation in the
bugged Consulate room, had the phone lines open to Rockefeller and
Kissinger who listened too. Rockefeller sent Kissinger to the White House
with Nixon's marching orders: "Resign right now". Nixon and Julie cried.
But there was still some hope, if Nixon resigned immediately, of drawing
the line somewhere--before it got to the King of the Mountain himself--
Onassis. Nixon, on trial, would blurt out those names to save himself:
Onassis, Dale, "Hughes", even JFK.

August 8, 1974: Nixon stepped down, and Ford stepped up: to keep the
cover-up going.

August 23, 1974: Frattiano in San Francisco, staying at the Sunol Golf
Course. More murders scheduled RE: Gemstone cover-up.

August 30, 1974: Ford hires Mafia lawer Becker to work out a pardon deal
for Nixon, who might otherwise name Onassis, Graham, and Pope Martini to
save himself.

San Francisco Zebra Murders: A series of "random" killings, dubbed "Zebra
murders" by the police because supposedly blacks were killing whites. The
real target was Silva, the witness to Alioto's Mafia Nut Tree meeting.
Silva was shot to death in an alley. Careful Mafia planning went into this
series, to kill several birds with one stone. 1.) Get witness Silva out
of the way, without being too "obvious" about it. 2.) Spread fear of
"black terrorists" and convince people that the police department needed
more money and more repressive power. 3.) Blame and frame Black Muslims,
knock off leaders of the opposition.

September 7, 1974: Roberts nad made an agreement with a friend, Harp, of
Kish Realty, over a bugged phone. Harp was to buy a Gemstone with history
for $500, the price of a trip to Canada for Roberts to check inot the
"Hughes" Mormon Mafia Canadian stock market swindle and other matters. But
Harp was sodium-morphate poisoned before the deal could go through on this
date.

Note: Sodium morphate: a favorite Mafia poison for centuries. Smells like
apple pie, and is sometimes served up in one, as to J. Edgar Hoover.
Sometimes in a pill or capsule. Symptoms: lethargy, sleep, sometimes
vomiting. Once ingested, there is a heart attack and no trace is left in
the body. Proof is in the vomit which is usually not analysed. Not
mentioned in your standard medical book on poisons, etc. It is a common
ingredient in rat poison.

September 8, 1974: Ford pardons Nixon for "all crimes committed" from June
20, 1969, (oops, make that January) through August, 1974.

Gemstone papers still floating around the world. Gandhi talks about the
U.S.' bloody deeds.

October, 1974: Ford drops "extradition" of Hughes from the Bahamas.
Explanation: "We dropped it because we knew he wouldn't come". THAT'S FOR
SURE.

"Four documents; four bodies twisting slowly in the breeze".

Lyndon Johnson: Sodium morphate "heart attack" at his ranch on the
Pedernales River. Among his last words: "You know fellows, it really was a
conspiracy...."

Alexander Onassis's plane crash at the "1000 foot Walter Reuther Level",
via a fixed altimeter, at Athens Airport.

Eugene Wyman: California Democratic Party Chairman and JFK assassination
pay-off bagman: Heart attack.

L. Wayne Rector, Hughes' double: Killed at Rothchild's Inn of the Park,
London.

"Started the Shattering of the Mafia Economy".

March 18, 1973: Roberts called Hal Lipset, discussing all these matters
publicly over a tapped phone. Lipset reported to Dean, who had hired him
away from Graham, after they figured out who had taped the door at
Watergate. (Mitchell: Katie Graham's liable to get caught in a wringer").

March 21, 1973: Nixon said that on this date, he "received new evidence on
Watergate". Lipset bragged on T.V. that he had been the one to bring new
evidence to Nixon.

Meanwhile, back at the Washington Post, Katherine Graham had been feeding
Woodward and Bernstein information for their articles.

May 10, 1973: The first witness at the Watergate hearing running down the
names on the CREEP organizational chart, mentioned the name at the top:
Francis L. Dale, Chairman. Dale was never mentioned again during the rest
of the trial.

July 9, 1973: Roberts had used Al Strom's Drift Inn bar as an open lecture
forum for any and all and Al Strom taped it, for his boss, Katherine
Graham. But Al was fair and told Roberts he was doing it, for which he was
murdered on this date.

August 1973: Murder of Chile, by Group of 40: (Rockefeller and his man
Kissinger), working with the CIA and $8 million. Allende's Chile. Admiral
Noel Gaylor, Naval Intelligence, told Roberts 1 1/2 years earlier that
Chile would get it: Roberts warned the Chilean consul in advance:
Allegria, now "teaching" at Stanford.
ITT had now extracted $125 million payment for its Chilean plants, a
good return for their $8 million. Mafia controlled Chile's annual
inflation rate has set a world's record.

March 19, 1973: Dean to Nixon, nervously: "There is a cancer growing on
the Presidency".

October 3, 1974: The Watergate trial, the cover-up of the cover-up got
underway, starting Montini's Bon Veniste, Onassis's Neal, Graham's Jill
Volner. In the White House, Mafia Mayors Alioto, Daley and Beame met with
the truth squad Ford, Scott and Griffin and Mike Mansfield, in secret.

October 10, 1974: Tina Livanos Onassis Blandford Niarchos, sodium morphate
poisoned by hubby Stravos, puked, slept and died of "heart attack".

Losing his son Alexander, took all the fun out of killing for Onassis. Who
was there left to inherit the world empire he had dreamed of handing over
to his son?

December, 1974: Brezhnev had scheduled a meeting with Sadat. The outcome
wouldn't help the U.S. no matter how many trips Henry made to the mid-East
with clean socks and blank checks. A new U.S. "secret weapon" was
apparently used, a tiny speck of metal, introduced somehow into Brezhnev's
lymph system. It lodged in the cluster of lymph nodes over his heart, and
there it was coated with layers of, much as an oyster created a pearl
around an irritating grain of sand. Brexhnev's lymph system clogged up:
he got the flu and the meeting with Sadat was cancelled.

Russian doctors X-rayed him and found a huge lump in his chest. Then they
put him before a Kirlian camera and checked his aura for cancer. No
cancer.

Note: Kirlian photography is the latest Russian diagnostic tool. It
reveals the presence of disease physical or moral (it also detects lies).

[Phoenix]

Brezhnev's lump had to be treated with radiation therapy: hence the rumors
he had cancer. It took six weeks to clear up.

March, 1975: Onassis died. The Mafia Organization regrouped itself.
Prince Fisal watched his uncle, King Fisal, silently watch the shift of
Mafia Power and couldn't stand it anymore. He shot his uncle, the
spiritual leader of 60,000,000 Moslems, who had played ball with Onassis
all along.

South Vietnam's Thieu, dubious about which way the Mafia cooky would
crumble, now that Onassis was dead, decided the time was right for him to
split. He abandoned the war effort, cursed the U.S., and split for Taiwan,
his plane so overloaded with gold bullion that he had to dump some of it
overboard.

March 15, 1975: Roberts got the "Brezhnev Flu" and spent 2 weeks at U.C.
Hospital. Doctors there without the Kirlian photography diagnostic
technique, assumed the softball sized lump over his heart was cancer. It
wasn't.

April, 1975: The Cambodian domino was no fun at all - it fell right over.
Premier Lon Nol fled to exile in a Hawaiian suburb.

CIA chief Colby, in a fit of spite, leaked the stolen story of CIA Hughes
Glomar Explorer's raising of the drowned Russian sailors from their sunken
nuclear submarine. Purpose: To bag the Russians and also to halt criticism
of the CIA by pointing out how noble, brave and self-sacrificing they are
in their efforts to save us.

The Russians are funny about their dead. They bitterly resented Colby's
game. They quietly went through a massive navel "war game", the rehearsal
of a nuclear attack on the U.S.

Which brings us almost to the present time. Ford, Kissinger and
Rockefeller squat like toads on the corpse of America. By the time of the
Bi-centenial the stink may be unbearable.

Ford now plans a propaganda mode version of his book, "Portrait of an
Assassin", which will reiterate the exploded cock and bull notion that
Oswald was JFK's lone assassin. With singular inept misunderstanding of
the times, he seems to think Americans will take his word for it and be re-
assured in the face of those crackpot conspiracy theories. He doesn't seem
to realize that he will be reminding or informing Americans of his role on
the infamous Warren Commission.

I hope this outline will make individual Gemstone papers easier to
understand.

IF YOU FOUND THIS OUTLINE INTERESTING: -

You won't be reading it in the papers for quite some time. At present the
only way to spread this information here in America is hand to hand.

Your help is needed. Please make 1, 5, 10, 100 copies or whatever you can,
and give them to friends or politicians, groups, media. This game is
nearly up. Either the Mafia goes or AMERICA goes.


End of verbatim transcript - July, 1986

[MarkTiarra]

Heck of a post man. Thanks for sharing.

[directfiesta]

There is a lot of American Prostitution left ...

[DjSap]

the constitution is nice in theory but can suck in practise, don't really see why people are so obsessed with it...

[squishypimp]

bush has killed it.

[DaddyHalbucks]

The constitution is just fine.

Bill Clinton did more damage to the US Constitution by having his party put him above the law. Remember how badly he abused his power for his own purposes?

Leftists bitch about the Patriot Act, but it has twarted some major terrorist attacks. Where is the evidence of its abuse?

[Brujah]

"George W. Bush did more damage to the US Constitution by having his party put him above the law. Remember how badly he abused his power for his own purposes?"

See how funny that works when you speak in vague?

[RawAlex]

There is that bit left about everyone owning a semu auto handgun... I know that is still in there. That and the right for the government to pass stupid laws tacked on to other bills because they would otherwise not pass.

[juz]

Well most everyone around here is still slinging porn in the US,(freedom of speech) I own 9 guns and can legally carry a pistol with me almost everywhere go.(right to bear arms)
With in 5 miles of my house there is a mosque a church and a jewish temple and I see peple at all 3 of them just about everyday (freedom of religion)

Do I need to go on or do you get the point?

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by juz

Well most everyone around here is still slinging porn in the US,(freedom of speech) I own 9 guns and can legally carry a pistol with me almost everywhere go.(right to bear arms)
With in 5 miles of my house there is a mosque a church and a jewish temple and I see peple at all 3 of them just about everyday (freedom of religion)

Do I need to go on or do you get the point?

no got it:

- quite a few church, synagogue and mosque attendants are at risk ....

[Webby]

It's not that bad....

There's still the right for the govt to levy taxes.

There is now the right to be detained without trial.

There is now the right not to have due legal process or habeas corpus.

The president considers he has the right to interpret and redefine the terms of the Geneva Conventions.

U.S. personnel, CIA operatives, civilian officials, and civilian contractors responsible for abuses and torture now have the right to breath easier and not be subject to offenses under the War Crimes Act.

When you are no longer resident in the US, there is still the right to file tax returns and pay taxes on your worldwide income.

There is still the right to know that your children are the only kids on the planet who do not have protection under the Convention of the Rights of the Child.

... it could be worse - maybe.

[dynastoned]

what the fuck is a constitution?[/end saracsm]

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

The constitution is just fine.

Bill Clinton did more damage to the US Constitution by having his party put him above the law. Remember how badly he abused his power for his own purposes?

Leftists bitch about the Patriot Act, but it has twarted some major terrorist attacks. Where is the evidence of its abuse?

Name one. If memory serves the ONLY terrorist attack happened on Bushy boys watch.

So tell me, do you think they just invented the Patriot Act after 9-11, or do you think maybe, just maybe, they have had it on the shelf for 10+ years and just waiting for the right time to push it thru in the middle of the night.

You fucks on the right are an ignorant bunch of followers.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

The constitution is just fine.

Jeez... just noticed that post...

No disrespect DH - but that is a totally absurd statement. It is the most "unfine" constitution in the western world right now.

[spanky part 2]

"Cheney confirms that detainees were subjected to water-boarding"
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/15847918.htm

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

The constitution is just fine.

Bill Clinton did more damage to the US Constitution by having his party put him above the law. Remember how badly he abused his power for his own purposes?

Leftists bitch about the Patriot Act, but it has twarted some major terrorist attacks. Where is the evidence of its abuse?

The concern is how those laws can be abused down the road. You set up processes in which people can be carted away blindly and eventually those processes lead to a very different place than that which we know. Watch that news clip I linked.

[MarkTiarra]

I should note that I never intended this post to be a statement about right vs. left. My personal opinion is that both established parties are so established now that the abuses happen on both sides. I don't know that this country can ever be something near what it once was or was intended to be again but I sure hope that it can happen without a violent civil war somewhere down the line. It may not happen for many years and likely won't but it sure as hell is headed that way one step at a time.

[Splum]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

I don't know that this country can ever be something near what it once was or was intended to be again but I sure hope that it can happen without a violent civil war somewhere down the line.

The constitution of the republic of the United States is just fine.

I dont know about your side of the country but my side of this country is just fine, the only problem is people like you and your kind. As far as civil war goes here is something to think about, the right has way more guns than your side does. You will bring flowers they will bring bullets, who do you think will prevail?

[Webby]

Jeez The post above deserves a bump to illustrate how sicko little boys become devoid of all rational thought when inflicted with repubitus.





Repubitus symptoms: A need deny commonly-known fact and often accompanied by arrogance. Psychotic belief in many enemies both within national boundaries and globally. A tendency to use words like, "liberal", "asswipe", "hate" and "democrat". Addicted to watching propaganda media. Beliefs of being under threat. Possible gun fetish accompanied by caveman-like behavior. Problematic communication when criticized and often adopts schizophrenic symptoms. The more extreme species can claim direct communication with God and fantasize about sitting on his right hand.

[Splum]

Originally Posted by Webby

Jeez The post above deserves a bump to illustrate how sicko little boys become devoid of all rational thought when inflicted with repubitus.

Its such a shame you dont live in America Webby, we would love to have you over here.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by Splum

Its such a shame you dont live in America Webby, we would love to have you over here.

That's so kind - can you make a mental adjustment and sort the constitution first. I'm fussy where I travel. Thanks





PS.. Additional symptom of repubitus - A need to express as "we" and adopt an assumption to speak on behalf of others.

[spanky part 2]

Originally Posted by Splum

The constitution of the republic of the United States is just fine.

I dont know about your side of the country but my side of this country is just fine, the only problem is people like you and your kind. As far as civil war goes here is something to think about, the right has way more guns than your side does. You will bring flowers they will bring bullets, who do you think will prevail?

Only one problem with your theory, you better find a way to breed with just men. That's all there are in a group like you are talking about. Lots of guys with guns and bad hats talking about the pussy they got last night, except it was just their right hand. Good luck with that.

[s9ann0]

don't be daft its better to have no rights than a muslim plant a dirty bomb in your house

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by Splum

The constitution of the republic of the United States is just fine.

I dont know about your side of the country but my side of this country is just fine, the only problem is people like you and your kind. As far as civil war goes here is something to think about, the right has way more guns than your side does. You will bring flowers they will bring bullets, who do you think will prevail?

Where in anything I said did I indicate that I was a liberal? When did questioning the state of our republic become an act of liberalism while being too stupid to question anything become conservative?

I am a staunch libertarian and I have more gins in this house than I have flowers. Get your head out of your ass before you type next time.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Only one problem with your theory, you better find a way to breed with just men. That's all there are in a group like you are talking about. Lots of guys with guns and bad hats talking about the pussy they got last night, except it was just their right hand. Good luck with that.

I'm not talking about a bunch of hicks lining up with shotguns when I speak of an eventual civil war or civil unrest. I'm thinking more like red and blue states arguing to the point where more ask to step back from the union. I'm talking about enough have nots that rioting becomes more commonplace. I'm talking about outspoken groups getting their asses kicked by a government that has slowly stepped away from democratic process. It happens to every government system in one form or another eventually. All it takes is a remedial understanding of history to know that and to see the signs a few decades in advance.

What to us look like disparate events (riots of the 60s, riots of cities like LA years later) look like a stream of connected events in a history book written a few hundred years later.

[Pleasurepays]

wow... someone ran out of tin foil this week.

[TheLegacy]

your constitution is not dead - just morally wounded.

no one person - political party or bomb/terrorist can take away the spirit of the words written by the people - for the people.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

your constitution is not dead - just morally wounded.

Despite my extremist post title, that is a statement I agree with.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

wow... someone ran out of tin foil this week.

Click the link in the first post and watch the video. I'm not spouting conspiracy theories, I am commenting on recent laws passed and the statements made by that newscaster.

[Crumpet]

Once it is changed there is nothing left...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Brujah

"George W. Bush did more damage to the US Constitution by having his party put him above the law. Remember how badly he abused his power for his own purposes?"

See how funny that works when you speak in vague?

[Splum]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

Click the link in the first post and watch the video. I'm not spouting conspiracy theories, I am commenting on recent laws passed and the statements made by that newscaster.

Keith Olbermann was not "news reporting" there he was commentating. Keith Olbermann is also a far left extremist. Also I dont think you are a registered Libertarian because I am and our beliefs are incredibely far apart.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by Splum

Keith Olbermann was not "news reporting" there he was commentating. Keith Olbermann is also a far left extremist. Also I dont think you are a registered Libertarian because I am and our beliefs are incredibely far apart.

What do you know about my beliefs fromt that one post? Libertarians are the most strict defenders of the Constiturion of all the named parties I can think of.

And if you think my post isn't Libertarian then look at the second story on their own news page:
http://www.lp.org/press.shtml


The Death of Habeus Corpus - "With one stroke of a pen, President Bush has suspended a key component of the U.S. Constitution. The writ of habeus corpus has been perhaps the most vital component of our law since our country was founded, as it ensures that government must act within the law when detaining people suspected of committing crimes. With this act, we've clearly moved from the rule of law to the rule of Bush."


I haven't voted anything but Libertarian in any major election since I voted for cooky Ross Perot just because I wanted any damn other party with a chance.

[StuartD]

Originally Posted by Splum

The constitution of the republic of the United States is just fine.

I dont know about your side of the country but my side of this country is just fine, the only problem is people like you and your kind. As far as civil war goes here is something to think about, the right has way more guns than your side does. You will bring flowers they will bring bullets, who do you think will prevail?

Wow, this kind of "thinking" is just scary.

I know I'm a human being, so what exactly is your "kind" on your "side" of the country?

[Splum]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

And if you think my post isn't Libertarian then look at the second story on their own news page: http://www.lp.org/press.shtml

I think you better start thinking for yourself a little bit instead of letting the website think for you. How are those animals in Guantanamo Bay allowed constitutional rights? They may be allowed international rights but not CONSTITUTIONAL rights give me a fucking break. They have not been fucking tortured either, Abu Ghraib incident wasnt torture as well. So that article is full of shit, and one of the few statements I have disagreed with the party spokesman on. Smells like a hidden agenda article there, maybe to bolster the parties chances this election cycle.

[Splum]

Originally Posted by StuartD

Wow, this kind of "thinking" is just scary. I know I'm a human being, so what exactly is your "kind" on your "side" of the country?

Dont even start StuartD you are quick to seperate yourself from the "right" side(hell even the "moderate" side) of the United States as anyone so you know damn well what Im talking about.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

Click the link in the first post and watch the video. I'm not spouting conspiracy theories, I am commenting on recent laws passed and the statements made by that newscaster.

huh? an opinion is just an opinion in case you didn't realize that. making a video and putting it online doesn't make it more credible. if what you were saying was an obvious truth that all could agree with, you wouldn't need to post a single link to wake people up. you have a view point, its very far from center no matter how you try to characterize it or how many "links" you post.

[StuartD]

Originally Posted by Splum

Dont even start StuartD you are quick to seperate yourself from the "right" side(hell even the "moderate" side) of the United States as anyone so you know damn well what Im talking about.

Hardly, the only side I ever take is that of the people... all people. Clinton was a douche as well... does that make me a conservative? or does it make me a liberal that I think Bush is the biggest terrorist there is?

You tell me. How do I pick a side when of politics when the only two sides I see are politicians and people?

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by Splum

I think you better start thinking for yourself a little bit instead of letting the website think for you. How are those animals in Guantanamo Bay allowed constitutional rights? They may be allowed international rights but not CONSTITUTIONAL rights give me a fucking break. They have not been fucking tortured either, Abu Ghraib incident wasnt torture as well. So that article is full of shit, and one of the few statements I have disagreed with the party spokesman on. Smells like a hidden agenda article there, maybe to bolster the parties chances this election cycle.

You do realize that you said I wasn't a true Libertarian because of my agreement with an article then here go on to say that you disagree with the Libertarian party on this issue - thus confirming that I am in line with the party's thinking?

I can't comment as to the accuracy of it because, like for anyone, I only go on as much information as I have taken the time to explore.

What I do know is this:

1) I believe strongly in free speech and I think that is thankfully still doing okay here.

2) I believe strongly in the right to bear arms and I think that right has taken a lot of small beatings. It's a complex issue because the intention was to make sure a populace could be well armed enough to overthrow an unjust rule (after all that's what the writers of the ammendment had just gone through)... BUT, at that time the weapons you needed to fight back were not of the destructive power that some nutjob could take out a square block. So that has to be balanced some.

3) I believe Habeus Corpus is a crucial issue and has taken a eating in the name of protecting us against terrorism (and some other things in the past as well). I don't fear so much abuse today as I do a couple generations down the line when any radical but loud group in this country gains enough power such that they can go after whoever disagrees with them.

I just see it all as a slow erosion of a system we put in place long ago to protect from the many things that are starting to happen now anyway.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

huh? an opinion is just an opinion in case you didn't realize that. making a video and putting it online doesn't make it more credible. if what you were saying was an obvious truth that all could agree with, you wouldn't need to post a single link to wake people up. you have a view point, its very far from center no matter how you try to characterize it or how many "links" you post.

It's not just some shmuck posting on You Tube so I'd think you'd lend it a little more credence but it still is an opinion. But what is opinion vs. fact? You say I'm not "in the center." Is that fact or opinion? Did I ever say I was in the center? I don't even know what that is. I wouldn't try to over simplify my beliefs or anyone else's with a one word label. I posted what I believe above in part at least. Whatever label you want to give that - that is YOUR opinion.

[Axeman]

Get em Mark!!

US really needs a third party to enter as the underdog and get power and show the two big dogs that power is not a right and if you abuse it, then you lose the power.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

huh? an opinion is just an opinion in case you didn't realize that. making a video and putting it online doesn't make it more credible. if what you were saying was an obvious truth that all could agree with, you wouldn't need to post a single link to wake people up. you have a view point, its very far from center no matter how you try to characterize it or how many "links" you post.

It's not just some shmuck posting on You Tube so I'd think you'd lend it a little more credence but it still is an opinion. But what is opinion vs. fact? You say I'm not "in the center." Is that fact or opinion? Did I ever say I was in the center? I don't even know what that is. I wouldn't try to over simplify my beliefs or anyone else's with a one word label. I posted what I believe above in part at least. Whatever label you want to give that - that is YOUR opinion.

[Webby]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

your constitution is not dead - just morally wounded.

Inclined to agree.

Extremist trash just need removed - they don't represent the population, but are simply an embarassment to the country

[EZRhino]

I find it funny that those who complain about the lack of freedom in America, have never lived some where without it.
US constituion is strong and it works. Liberals are just to blind with hate and intolerance to see it.

[tony286]

as long elections are bought, rights for the common man are considered unimportant.

[Narfle]

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them… We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal."

The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945)

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

It grows weaker every day in my view. Things the current administration does especially worry me and certianly leave things open for horrible abuse by others later down the line.

Watch this if you give a shit to hear some truth. It's as well said as anything I've ever seen on the news:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=10020

Olberman is a fear monger reaching back 240 years to come up with 3 instances of what he claims are abuse of power by our government in his latest "I'm a patriot therefore I hate America" rant.
His silly rant here is directed at Bush even though the military commissions act he rails at and so fears was voted on by congress, the senate and signed by the president.
This halfwit earns his living blaming Bush for non-existant abuses of power and conveniently forgets that these laws where passed by congress and the senate.
Olberman is the worst kind of fear mongering, terrorist sypathizing trash

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

It's not just some shmuck posting on You Tube .

uh, yes it is.