xenigo

I shoot a decent volume of twink content every week, and I'm spotting a trend emerging that I'd like to put an end to. I'm seeing a lot of models flaking recently. Not only are they not showing up, but I'll have talked to them that very morning to confirm that everything is going to happen, they're calling me two hours before to say they're on their way... and then not showing up. When I call, to find out a status, their phone goes to voicemail. Text messages go unreplied.

With one of them that I was supposed to shoot on Saturday, I got a call yesterday saying "Sorry it's taken me 2 days to get back to you. I've been sick. I'm still interested in working with you, if you're still open to working wtih me." And I'm at a loss of words for how to respond. He's a very attractive guy but I hate being walked on.

I'm considering revising my casting sites to explain that I'm really, really serious about this issue and that if they commit to showing up then that's what's expected of them. For some reason I get the feeling that their attitudes are simply that this is optional. That it's "no biggie" to not show up. This is something fun, and if they don't feel like it then who cares? They'll go out with their buddies instead. I have a feeling that they think they're somehow above calling and saying they're not going to make it.

Although I never really get an explanation out of them after this happens,
that's the vibe I get from these guys. Anyone else having issues like these lately? It's never really been this bad for me before. I've always had people not show up, but lately it's just been incredible.

baddog

guess that is one thing gay and straight content has in common

DeanCapture

One thing that I've noticed over the years is that.... the less you try to get by paying a model, the less likely the model is to show up. I saw this quite a bit this past year when I was shooting with Twistys. In most cases...the models that were paid at or above the standard rate for this area - always showed up for their shoots. In contrast.... the girls that we negotiated lower rates for, were more likely to not show up or cancel at the last minute. This is just an observation on my part and of course it's not 100% true in all cases but for the most part - that's how it usually plays out.

Also, I feel that hiring models that are represented by respected agents or agencies are more likely to show up than a model who is representing themselves...or a model that was found on OMP, Model Mayhem or even Craigslist.

Your best bet is to move to a place where you can work through agents or agencies or just get used to having a large number of no-shows.

Good luck!

__________________
Twitter: @DeanCapture
Instagram: @TheDeanCapture
DeanCapture "at" Gmail.com

interracialtoons

My guess would be that your pay must be shit.

I mean, if they are on their way to the shoot and someone says
"Psssssst...I'll pay you $200 to suck my cock all day" and that's more than you are paying then there you go.

__________________
Done.

stickyfingerz

Well once they are there we do have some things we do. If we schedule them for 3 hours and for some reason they have to leave early we cut their hour pay in half. So if they are doing nude for 100.00 per hour and leave early they only get 50.00 an hour. Reason being we had setup time etc etc and if we dont get a full amount in we cant sell it for enough to cover our time. Getting them there is the hardest part. We had to drive 60 miles and rent a hotel suite last month cause a models car broke down, but we had to get the shoot done to meet the needs of a client. Was a great shoot but of course we lost time for the hotel, and time driving, and gas, but it worked out.

xenigo

Thanks for the reply, Dean.

I'm afraid moving might be what it will come down to. Kinda crappy.

interracialtoons

No shit. You had to actually figure this out!!!

Why go work for some motherfucker who's not paying what EVERYBODY else is getting...wouldn't someone like that try to cheat you more when you get to the shoot.

"ER,...I know we said $500, but something happened and....."

Nobody wants to set themselves up to hear that shit.

__________________
Done.

xenigo

I'm one of the highest paying producers in the Bay Area.

cj_purve

Dean I've noticed a similar pattern ...
There's also that element of the girl/guy having second thoughts about what they are about to do and freaking out about it before the shoot. Then they get embarassed they are flaking and become non contactable. When they get over it, they contact you and the cycle starts again.

I've found that if you are talking to a model and there is even the slightest hesitation in them, or if its their first time, you need to be a little less pushy with trying to lock them into times. Tell them you are interested in working with them but if they aren't really keen to do it maybe they need to go and rethink their direction. The best models are the ones that love it so explain this to them and tell them to contact you when they are ready.

I'd had success with inviting a new model to watch a shoot of an experienced model too, obviously all parties need to agree but this seems to work well for me with girls ...

Good luck ;-)

xenigo

You know what? You're making a whole lot of assumptions about people's rates. I'm not going to say what they are in a public forum, but I'll say it's twice as much as what most people pay their models. The reason my rates are so high, is to simply get people to follow through.

interracialtoons

Small thinking.....In the end the model tells everyone she showed up for $100 and hour but didn't get it and heard a differrent story once she got there.

Makes you look like a cheap scammer to the outside folks.

Don't charge the model for your setup time...get setup before she arrives.

__________________
Done.

JP-pornshooter

some companies use a contract, which has a no show cost to the model.
in LA, we also network and models who are prone to show up late, no-show or do a less than expected performance are "black listed" on pornstarperformance website. I have a few times listed models there if they really made a bad one, and months later, they have begged me to take it down as producers and photogs alike check the site and remember the models who particularly no-show.

Agent 488

do you shoot too? or just draw cartoons?

Barefootsies

We pay higher than any company in this area for what we shoot, and we have them do less. Even by comparison to mainstream models.

But there is no magic thing that works. We've tried just about everything over the years. It really comes down to interviewing good candidates, and being upfront at the get go about your attendance guidelines. Also sometimes doing a longer shoot day so they make more money in one shot will sometimes help.

__________________
Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

xenigo

I was thinking it would be a good idea to somehow pass the expense to the model. But how is that done exactly? How would I bill a model that hasn't shown up?

stickyfingerz

What do badly drawn cartoons cost you an hour?

We do setup prior to the shoot of course. We havent had to do that to a model yet, but prior to making the rule we did have a model leave a shoot early. So we tell them upfront that if they leave early there is a penalty. This will make sure that they leave their cell phones off, and make sure to set enough time out for the shoot. If you work a dayjob and leave early do you get your full pay for the day?

BlackCrayon

don't hire models who do drugs. they are the flakiest.

__________________
you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

interracialtoons

Do you have everyone else's reciepts to prove that or is that just your inflated opinion of your operation.

Every time someone told me they paid the most I had already gotten offers for twice as much.

I think models are "shopping" your work-offer and succeeding.

IE. "Yeah this dudes paying me $xxx to work today but I could shoot for you instead for $YYY."

I don't think performers are blowing off money, they are most likey shopping for bigger money and getting it.

__________________
Done.

Barefootsies

We use that same line.

__________________
Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

interracialtoons

I have hired many people to do many various things in my middled aged life.
It's all the same...people don't show up and call in sick and make excuses when the money is not very attractive. This is nothing new.

These days people will get some work(any type) for $200 but later that night come up on a $150 score on some dope in 5 mins time and say fuck work and go to the beach the next day and blow you off.

I'm just spitting out numbers for hypothetical cases and in no way implying that you pay these amounts.

__________________
Done.

stickyfingerz

I think people dont understand when you dont shoot in just a studio, and you are shooting at a location how much time, and setup is involved. Not to mention you could be shooting another model. Lateness is pretty bad too. A 3 or 4 hour shoot turns into a full day wasted.

AaronM

I don't get flakes very often but when I do....I have developed two very good ways of dealing with the issue.

1: IF they call back, put them off. Tell them you are booked solid this week and they can try back on X day. The message this gives the model is that he/she is replaceable and you have many others who are more than willing to take their place in line. When you tell them to call back, tell them to call on the 28th or the 3rd. Since rent is due then, they may be scrambling for work and are more apt to show.

2: The second solution is WAY too good to share with the general public so I won't be posting it here. Feel free to call me if you like. *****************. It's been awhile since we've chatted anyway.

Hope all is well.

interracialtoons

Quite a bit more per image than shooting some ugly slut.

__________________
Done.

Barefootsies

Yep. We start docking their pay.

For girls who've been with us awhile, if they show up on time, do their work, and do not leave early, as well as the no-call no show. We do pay them more. But once a girl has done it to us a time or two (any of the above) they never get a bump in pay. When they ask why, we explain how much money they cost us in their no call no show, and that is where they pay raise went.

__________________
Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barefootsies

Yes. Never negotiate out of weakness. You always have more models. They blew you off, so they are now at the end of the line. As a replacement role.

__________________
Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

AaronM

Ah, but do you profit as well each day as the people who shoot the "ugly sluts?"

Grapesoda

hit me with an email . . have some insight into this . . -bmb

AaronM

Exactly.

stickyfingerz

I almost always give a bonus if they do a really good job.

chaze

Tell them there is a bonus for professionalism. And give them an extra $50 afterwards.

stickyfingerz

Sure cause cartoons like yours pull in high dolla numbers.

AaronM

That's what I was thinking too.

Now to bag on you a bit though....

You post as if you have YEARS of experience and knowledge in this field yet you just started down this road 3 moths ago...give or take.

That's not to say that your opinions are not wanted or valid...just that they are VERY limited and some of the things you have said I tend to not fully agree with.

For the record, I have no problems with you. You've always been cordial with me and I appreciate it. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here and mentioning my own observations.

Carry on.

tony286

I think it matters if your working with career models or part timers. I assume with most of Deans girls this is what they do for a living, where some girl who goes to school or has a day job or is a stay home mom looking for extra spending money or the stripper. I think the part timer is more likely to flake.

stickyfingerz

Nah didnt mean to come off like that at all. Im a relative noob to the whole shooting gig, but Ive dealt with what was being talked about in the thread quite a bit already, so just going off my experiences. Been shooting a bit longer than Ive been posting about it. And as far as stills go, thats not me thats my partner, and he does have about 18 years or so experience in mainstream and adult. Im the video guy, that I do have quite a bit of experience in, but not that much in adult. I have been doing video projects since 88 or so and getting paid for it. When I first started editing it was with the old Jog Shuttle dual vcr controllers. I had an amateur type site I shot back in 2003 or so that I had the models flake, but was far from glamor type photos But ya didnt mean to come off like I was an old pro, just talking from my experiences so far.

DeanCapture

What everybody else is getting????

You sir.... have no idea what your talking about. All models do not make the same amount of money. I have paid girls $500 per day all the way up to $3000 for a day. It's all based on her name, her experience and how big her following is.

All rates are negotiable and like any responsible producer...you work with the model or her agent to get the best rate. If the model is a no-named newbie with no experience and nobody knows who she is, you shouldn't be required to pay her as much as a name-brand girl with lots of experience and a big following.

If you negotiate a lower rate with a model or her agent and they agree to that rate...then the model should show up for the shoot. This thread is not about "what everybody else is getting"...it's about ideas on how to get the model to show up after they've already agreed to the rate and the terms of the shoot.

__________________
Twitter: @DeanCapture
Instagram: @TheDeanCapture
DeanCapture "at" Gmail.com

aico

If a model doesn't show up, just let them know that they won't work with you again, and you will be letting other know that they are unreliable.

If a model shows up late, send them home, or call them before they get there and tell them to turn around and don't bother coming.

The reason it happens so much is because people let it happen and the model gets away with it, and starts realizing he/she can get away with it. They are basically like little kids.

There are lots of models who are very professional and would love the work.

JP-pornshooter

Sorry to say but i dont think there is a way..one thing is to get them to sign a contract which has a $300 no show fee, another thing is to try and collect on it. At best it could make the model think there could be some serious consequences for not showing up..

Grapesoda

yeah like going to the shoot next door for 20-30 min and making $1,000.00 . . that will teach them