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baddog 02-15-2007 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild (Post 11923023)
My dogs dig under the lawn to look for rocks to eat. It's a pain in the ass.

I used to have a setter that would dig holes to the shape of his body so he could lay in it and stretch out. They were deep enough that he could lay ion them and I could mow the lawn without him being in the way.

candyflip 02-15-2007 01:54 PM

Sounds to me like someone wasn't aware of what goes into caring for and bringing up a well behaved dog. There aren't as many bad dogs as there are bad owners. It just happens that this bad owner is also named baddog. :1orglaugh

ztik 02-15-2007 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneemann (Post 11921680)
Yeah, I'm a dog abuser. Dumbass. I've actively been involved in breed rescue for 5 years, investing thousands of hours of my time and thousands of dollars of my money rescuing dogs. What the fuck have you done?

And you solve a dogs problem by mental abuse? You are a POS

You probably live in your moms basement

ztik 02-15-2007 01:57 PM

Oh and you should watch the dog whisperer lol

I think they had an episode on why they do this and how to fix it

ztik 02-15-2007 01:59 PM

12 Reasons why dogs dig


1) The Denning Instinct: Evolution has provided dogs with an instinct to dwell in a protected area. If such shelter is not provided, the dog will dig to obtain it.

2) Temperature Control: In extreme environments, dogs may use earthen dens to control body temperature. Some dogs dig dens to stay warm in the winter and cool in the summer. Providing a protected, warm area in the winter and plenty of liquids, shade and occasional sprays with water in the summer can help eliminate this need to dig.

3) Hunting: Some dogs, such as terriers, are relentless diggers. Such breeds have evolved to use digging as an essential part of their hunting repertoire. Underground there are

countless bugs, dead animals, old trash pits and live game.

4) Self Care: Occasionally digging will be an instinctive expression of self-care, such as stashing bones or surplus food. This behavior keeps the dogs' living areas clean and prevents interference from scavengers.

5) Exploration and Territoriality: Dogs often dig because of their instinct to explore. There is a high survival value associated with being intimately familiar with the territory. Thus, dogs may dig to locate potentially dangerous or useful items. This usually is a temporary phenomenon; however, owners should try to avoid ground disturbances because they may elicit additional investigations.

6) Mimicry: The technical term for this is "allelomimetic behavior." Dogs often will imitate other animals, as well as people.

7) Reproductive Behavior: Walker explains that females in the wild will dig series of dens. This nesting behavior is quite common, and providing a proper whelping box typically will address this sort of digging. Dogs also may dig to escape from the yard and attempt mating. Neutering, of course, provides a permanent solution for this digging.

8) Aggressiveness and Frustration: Digging, especially at a fence or gate, usually is associated with frustration. Being pack animals, dogs want to join others (human or canine) and feel stressed by their isolation and confinement. Male dogs also may display aggression in response to human teasing or canine challenges. Neutering may help reduce this intermale aggression in some cases. Restricting the dog's mobility in order to avoid close proximity to gates or fences also may be helpful, as would persuading your neighbors to stop their children or dogs from teasing your dog.

9) Social Interaction Needs: Some dogs require a home range much larger than a fenced-in yard can provide, and they may attempt to escape simply to increase social contact. Walks, a canine companion and a fence that allows a greater range of visibility may help. Smaller breeds, spayed females and older dogs may be more appropriate for limited ranges, and neutering may be considered for males that wander continually.

10) Attention-Seeking Behavior: Digging, as a random exploratory behavior, may become an entrenched habit if a dog is "rewarded" with considerable negative attention because of its digging. Ignoring the digging while giving positive attention for an incompatible desirable behavior generally is the best approach. Barrier techniques also might be used in conjunction with this form of contingency management. Many barrier approaches exist, such as filling the hole with water, rocks, the dog's own feces, thorny branches, repellents, fencing, chicken wire or cactus plants.




11) Lack of Stimulation: "Dogs will also dig out of boredom",

12) Anxiety, Trauma and Threat: Dogs often dig when feeling sick or especially anxious. "Dogs that are extremely ill will sometimes go off and try to dig a hole in which to lie and die," Walker says. Likewise, when dogs are feeling threatened or insecure, a den may provide comfort and help them relax. When digging is related to trauma (often separation) or a genetically anxious temperament it may become an obsessive tension-reducing mechanism that usually provides only temporary relief. In such cases a veterinarian should be consulted to consider possible anti-anxiety medication

candyflip 02-15-2007 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ztik (Post 11923229)
And you solve a dogs problem by mental abuse? You are a POS

You probably live in your moms basement

Not giving your dog the proper exercise and attettion, thus causing him to display nervous behaviors is mental and physical abuse as well.

This is not a reflection of the dog, it's a reflection of the owner. This dog probably isn't getting the proper exercise and attention it needs. I'm not saying that Baddog isn't caring for his pup, he's just not covering all of the bases.

baddog 02-15-2007 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip (Post 11923215)
Sounds to me like someone wasn't aware of what goes into caring for and bringing up a well behaved dog. There aren't as many bad dogs as there are bad owners. It just happens that this bad owner is also named baddog. :1orglaugh

:321GFY .

candyflip 02-15-2007 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 11923324)
:321GFY .

Sorry man. Sometimes the truth hurts. You've got one of the most active breeds on the face of the planet, you've said in this thread you don't have the time to give him, and he's displaying nervous behaviors because of this. The problem is not with the dog, the problem is with you.

Someone mentioned that you should check out Cesar Milan. You should, and the one thing you'll see him point out in most cases is that he's not there to train the dog, he's there to train the owners.

My girlfriend works closely with a local rescue. We've got 2 dogs of our own, and 2 fosters at the moment. 8 months ago, I was in your shoes and would have blamed the dog as well. Most people really DO NOT KNOW what is involved in bringing up a well behaved pup. Knowledge is the key.

baddog 02-15-2007 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip (Post 11923363)
Sorry man. Sometimes the truth hurts. You've got one of the most active breeds on the face of the planet, you've said in this thread you don't have the time to give him,

Idiot, I said I do not have time to drive him out to Long Beach or Huntington Beach to take him to the dog beach.

He goes to the dog park almost every day, for well over an hour.

As far as the most active on the face of the planet, I never knew that about mutts. Where do you get your info?

Martina Warren 02-15-2007 02:23 PM

Sadie also digs in the mud. Which is a real pain, i feel you :(

TG Rebecca 02-15-2007 02:27 PM

our dogs were really bad at digging for a little while. when we would catch them doing it, we would just tell them "no" and then pick them up and bring them in, and wash their paws off, then put them into their cage for a little while for time out.

they hate having their paws washed. :) i think that in conjunction with the time out somehow sunk in for them as not being worth digging the holes anymore. :)

good luck!

baddog 02-15-2007 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina Warren (Post 11923405)
Sadie also digs in the mud. Which is a real pain, i feel you :(

I was thinking that Buddy and Sadie should have a date tomorrow night . . . is she busy?

CDSmith 02-15-2007 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneemann (Post 11922956)
I'd hate to have someone too afraid to discipline their animal adopt a dog from me. Those are the people who usually return the dog (or who surrender it in the first place) because they can't control it.

Thats why you never discipline a dog after it has forgotten what it did.
I never said "Go out there and shove his nose in the hole 5 weeks after he dug it". If he's not actively performing the bad behavior (or JUST stopped it), you'd be wasting your time.

I doubt you've ever had a truly hard case dog to deal with.

I had a dog who literally did everything bad you can imagine. She was terrible. She dug. She chewed up a couch. No, I don't mean nibbled it. I mean one day I went to class and by the time I came back and the entire couch was decimated. She chewed holes through doors. She had such massive separation anxiety anytime I left the house something new was destroyed. Shoes, even a weight bench.

By the time I was done with her, she was the model of good behavior. I could walk her down the sidewalk in Bensonhurst on a busy Saturday morning and she'd walk right next to me without any need for a leash.

I had to put her to sleep for medical reasons when she was 6. The night before I put her down, I tried to feed her steak for dinner. I put the steak, fresh off the grill, right in front of her. She didn't touch it.

Negative reinforcement is important to training. No, you shouldn't be heavy handed with discipline, and any discipline should match the infraction. Both positive and negative should also be consistent.

The dog should be convinced first by the joy that your praise gives him. When he does bad, he should be saddened by the fact that he has disappointed you. And when he cannot or will not be made to understand that you expect more, you need to be willing to punish him. If that means putting him on sit-stay for 20 minutes or something more, so be it. Anyone unwilling to put the time into training a dog should not have one - because those are the people who finally end up surrendering their animal (or worse yet, euthanizing them) because they can't muster up the intestinal fortitude to train an animal.

I'm not sure if there's anything you could say at this point that would cause everyone here to stop thinking you're a bit of an idiot after your post advocating holding a dog's head underwater. That certainly doesn't sound like a tactic any professional trainer I know would employ, sorry. Neither is cocking off at those who disagree with you with comments like "What the fuck have you done?" and the like.

I'm no professional trainer myself by any means, but I have been a dog owner for most of my life and been trusted in the care of the dogs owned by many others from time to time. I can agree with some of what you're saying now, dogs do need to know who is boss and they do need consistant reinforcemtent of rules, they certainly do need their owners to put in the time to train them properly in at least the basics, yes.

But sorry, I don't see myself agreeing with shoving a dog's head underwater and holding it there as you described. My dog is like my kid, the rest of the family considers him as part of the family. If you did that to your kid you would be arrested (and hopefully thrown in jail, your kid removed from you and put in a home where they are safe from that abuse), why then should it be okay to bully a dog like that? It isn't. And consider this: If I saw my neighbor doing that to their dog I'm pretty sure I'd report them, as they would me if I were doing it to mine.

There has to be more humane ways of effectively getting a dog to stop certain behaviors than that, hard case or not.

cherrylula 02-15-2007 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith (Post 11923448)
There has to be more humane ways of effectively getting a dog to stop certain behaviors than that, hard case or not.

Yeah, I'm glad his dog tore up his couch. She should have shit all over his bed too. Good dog. :thumbsup

tASSy 02-15-2007 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneemann (Post 11922956)
I'd hate to have someone too afraid to discipline their animal adopt a dog from me. Those are the people who usually return the dog (or who surrender it in the first place) because they can't control it.


Oh? And how long has that been? And what kind of dogs were they?




Thats why you never discipline a dog after it has forgotten what it did.
I never said "Go out there and shove his nose in the hole 5 weeks after he dug it". If he's not actively performing the bad behavior (or JUST stopped it), you'd be wasting your time.

I doubt you've ever had a truly hard case dog to deal with.

I had a dog who literally did everything bad you can imagine. She was terrible. She dug. She chewed up a couch. No, I don't mean nibbled it. I mean one day I went to class and by the time I came back and the entire couch was decimated. She chewed holes through doors. She had such massive separation anxiety anytime I left the house something new was destroyed. Shoes, even a weight bench.

By the time I was done with her, she was the model of good behavior. I could walk her down the sidewalk in Bensonhurst on a busy Saturday morning and she'd walk right next to me without any need for a leash.

I had to put her to sleep for medical reasons when she was 6. The night before I put her down, I tried to feed her steak for dinner. I put the steak, fresh off the grill, right in front of her. She didn't touch it.

Negative reinforcement is important to training. No, you shouldn't be heavy handed with discipline, and any discipline should match the infraction. Both positive and negative should also be consistent.

The dog should be convinced first by the joy that your praise gives him. When he does bad, he should be saddened by the fact that he has disappointed you. And when he cannot or will not be made to understand that you expect more, you need to be willing to punish him. If that means putting him on sit-stay for 20 minutes or something more, so be it. Anyone unwilling to put the time into training a dog should not have one - because those are the people who finally end up surrendering their animal (or worse yet, euthanizing them) because they can't muster up the intestinal fortitude to train an animal.

Quote:

Oh? And how long has that been? And what kind of dogs were they?
mostly pit bulls, bully breeds, pit mixes rescued from shelters, as well as growing up raising german shepards and dalmatians. so i guess i'd have to say it's been about 20 years total.

Quote:

Thats why you never discipline a dog after it has forgotten what it did.
meaning more than 30 seconds later depending on the dog or breed. even coming home from work an hour after a dog has done something humans deem as "wrong" is way too long to correct the behaviour.

Quote:

I doubt you've ever had a truly hard case dog to deal with.
i spent most of last year dealing with an aggressive stray pit mix female who wanted to eat my small dog alive every time she saw it. this is only the most recent of instances of "a truly hard dog case" invovling a court case for the cost of vet bills to another small dog's owner due to the pit trying to rip it's head off. most dogs i've rescued from kill shelters come with bad behaviours because they've been abused or neglected. i am quite accustomed to it.

Quote:

Negative reinforcement is important to training. No, you shouldn't be heavy handed with discipline, and any discipline should match the infraction. Both positive and negative should also be consistent.
a dog doesn't realise that his natural behaviours are an "infraction".

Quote:

Anyone unwilling to put the time into training a dog should not have one - because those are the people who finally end up surrendering their animal (or worse yet, euthanizing them) because they can't muster up the intestinal fortitude to train an animal.
i agree that if you are unwilling to put time and effort into training your dog you should not have one. i also agree that many if not most surrendered dogs are given up because the owner doesn't have proper training skills, but i don't know how many times i've heard about a frustrated dog owner trying to "discipline" their dog into submission in a way that doesn't indicate their alphaness to the dog, just their quick ability to snap at what they (not the dog) think of as bad behaviour.

every one of my dogs i've ever owned has been trained to the point of off-leash heeling and i've never ever had one steal a steak off my plate. :2 cents:

tASSy 02-15-2007 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula (Post 11923511)
Yeah, I'm glad his dog tore up his couch. She should have shit all over his bed too. Good dog. :thumbsup

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh yay for positive reinforcement! :thumbsup

puravida 02-15-2007 03:19 PM

my dog digs to bury his bones, then covers it back up again. my cat digs to take a shit, then covers it back up again

PurrrsianPussyKat 02-15-2007 03:33 PM

Maybe try a Kong.
http://www.petsmart.com/global/produ...ext=kong &N=2

You can get all kinds of recipes online for things to stuff it with.
It probably won't cute the digging, but it might give him an alternative source of entertainment.

candyflip 02-15-2007 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 11923385)
Idiot, I said I do not have time to drive him out to Long Beach or Huntington Beach to take him to the dog beach.

He goes to the dog park almost every day, for well over an hour.

As far as the most active on the face of the planet, I never knew that about mutts. Where do you get your info?

So you're going to call me an idiot because you can't handle a puppy? Come on dude. In this thread you've said that you "don't have time" and that he's part border collie. So that's where I'm getting my info from.

You're more concerned that he's a flirt and good at picking up chicks.

Please tell goodgirl to have her dogs spayed or nutered. She's only contributing to the problem.

tASSy 02-15-2007 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip (Post 11923820)
So you're going to call me an idiot because you can't handle a puppy? Come on dude. In this thread you've said that you "don't have time" and that he's part border collie. So that's where I'm getting my info from.

You're more concerned that he's a flirt and good at picking up chicks.

Please tell goodgirl to have her dogs spayed or nutered. She's only contributing to the problem.

baddog said he didn't have time to take him on a long drive to the ocean in response to my asking if he'd been to dog beach. a dog park is just as engaging and active for a dog, especially one like a border collie mix. just because you don't have time to drive 2 hours to take your dog for some exercise/doggy interaction doesn't mean you don't have time to take him to the local dog park; baddog responded to you and said he takes him to the dog park daily. that's more than many dog owners do, sadly. (but good for buddy!) :2 cents:

baddog 02-15-2007 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip (Post 11923820)
.

Please tell goodgirl to have her dogs spayed or nutered.

She should have them made into cookies? :helpme

http://www.wackypackages.org/realpro...tter_small.jpg

and please learn to read before commenting.

Peaches 02-15-2007 06:02 PM

I have the WORST behaved dogs on the planet. The puppy has torn up just about everything. But they don't dig. Riley (the puppy) brings in about 100 pounds of dirt into the house every day either by way of paws or with the dozens of rocks and sticks he brings in. My dog sitter actually referred to the laundry room (where they stay with a doggie door to the outside while I'm gone) as "the sandbox". I could FedEx you MY dirt for YOUR holes :)

What's really weird is when I hear a strange screeching noise - he is actually CHEWING on the glass door. It's pretty funny to watch from the other side ;)

ayne468 02-15-2007 08:01 PM

My dog doesn't dig....but we went to the beach and he fell down a huge hole that some kids had dug....was so funny:)

needlive 02-15-2007 08:05 PM

No. I dig my dog.

JaneB 02-15-2007 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneemann (Post 11921680)
Yeah, I'm a dog abuser. Dumbass. I've actively been involved in breed rescue for 5 years, investing thousands of hours of my time and thousands of dollars of my money rescuing dogs. What the fuck have you done?

I work with animal rescue groups as well, and I have never seen anyone do what you suggested. Pushing a dog's head under water would be considered animal abuse. That is not the way to break them out of digging, it is a great way to scare and scar them. Try and catch them when they are digging and put their nose in the dirt they have dug up. My German Shepherd digs and that is what the certified dog trainer said to do. You can always have a trainer come out and help you as well.

JaneB 02-15-2007 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schneemann (Post 11923111)
Great idea, sparky.

'Dog Whisperer' sued over pet's injury

Associated Press
May. 5, 2006 12:51 PM


LOS ANGELES - A television producer is suing dog trainer Cesar Millan, star of TV's "The Dog Whisperer," claiming that his Labrador retriever was injured at Millan's training facility after being suffocated by a choke collar and forced to run on a treadmill.

In a lawsuit filed Thursday in Superior Court, "8 Simple Rules" producer Flody Suarez says he took 5-year-old Gator to the Dog Psychology Center on Feb. 27 to deal with fears of other dogs and strangers.

Hours after dropping the dog off at the facility, Suarez claimed a worker called to inform him the animal had been rushed to a veterinarian. He later found the dog "bleeding from his mouth and nose, in an oxygen tent gasping for breath and with severe bruising to his back inner thighs," the lawsuit claims.

The facility's workers allegedly placed a choke collar on the dog, pulled him onto a treadmill and forced him to "overwork." Suarez says he spent at least $25,000 on medical bills and the dog must undergo more surgeries for damage to his esophagus.

A call to the Dog Psychology Center, also named as a defendant, was not immediately returned. A spokesman for National Geographic Channel, which airs Millan's show, declined comment.

"As of this time, the National Geographic Channel has not been served with either lawsuit, and we do not comment on pending litigation," said Russell Howard, the channel's vice president of communications.

The complaint claims breach of contract, fraud, animal cruelty and intentional infliction of emotional distress, among other allegations. It seeks more than $25,000 in damages.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/art...erer05-ON.html

What is your point? You have no idea if this is even a true story. The dog owner could be full of shit. Caesar Milan has worked with thousands of dogs and I have not heard anything bad about him. He saves a lot of dogs that would have been put down because they are aggressive. If this did happen then it was an accident. Accidents happen all the time, does not mean he is not a good trainer.

nico-t 02-15-2007 08:41 PM

so let me get this straight..... you actually grab the shit of your dog with your bare hands and stuff it in the ground?

Tempest 02-15-2007 10:51 PM

Maybe all you dog experts can give me some advice.. My dog is very well behaved.. Shepard Akita cross... UNTIL I take him off the leash.. Then I won't see him for hours and he won't come when I call.. I used to punish him, but I've spent the last year or so trying to give him postiive reinforcement when I call him etc. but still no use.. He's damn smart that dog. It's like he knows he's going to be in trouble but doesn't really care because nothing truly bad will happen to him.

baddog 02-15-2007 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest (Post 11925595)
Maybe all you dog experts can give me some advice.. My dog is very well behaved.. Shepard Akita cross... UNTIL I take him off the leash.. Then I won't see him for hours and he won't come when I call.. I used to punish him, but I've spent the last year or so trying to give him postiive reinforcement when I call him etc. but still no use.. He's damn smart that dog. It's like he knows he's going to be in trouble but doesn't really care because nothing truly bad will happen to him.


Some dogs are runners, have seen them, never owned one.

I came home last night and noticed that the plumbers had left the back gate open. My heart dropped. But Buddy was sitting on the back patio, patiently waiting for my return, and his ability to come back in the house.

My friend had a runner, and we still laugh about the time she took off when he brought her over here a couple years ago. He literally ran about 2 miles before he finally caught up to her.

I think I saw a Dog Whisperer episode about runners, but I don't recall how he fixed it because it wasn't an issue for me.

tony286 02-16-2007 12:09 AM

Have you asked his vet also some dogs love to dig. Im lucky Bostons are diggers by nature neither of mine do it.


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