FBI Agent talks about 2257 Inspections at XBiz Conference - GoFuckYourself.com

chadknowslaw · 02-07-2007, 05:20 PM

This morning at the XBiz conference we were treated to a truly astounding seminar-- an FBI Agent supervisor involved in 2257 inspections addressing adult webmasters and taking questions!

At the end, the attorneys who were sitting up there with him were quick to point out that what the Agent said was not legal advice and some of what he said contradicted the regulations. They also basically said you still need to retain them at enormous cost to keep yourselves protected

I was there and took plenty of notes. Most lawyers would charge you for a consultation but as you know I am NOT like most lawyers!

First, the agent told us the procedure they go through to conduct an inspection. They have a list of 1200 producers [and adding to that list all the time] and randomly select a producer from that list. If your number comes up, they first order some product from you, such as ordering a DVD.

Then they take that product and review it for obvious compliance --does it have the 2257 statement on it and do any of the models look underage. This first phase is looking for 2 things -- if you at least appear to be in compliance and if you have obviously underage models. They make a list of all the models that appear in the video, either by stage name or some other reference if there is no stage name. For example, if you have a scene where you never see a models face but only see his ass getting pounded they might call that "Ass Man #1" The Agents prepare a spreadsheet with the models and plan a little visit to you.

They take a photograph of the exterior of the address listed and then photographs of the room where your records are kept and a 3rd photograph of the work area they are assigned. The Agent specifically said they appreciate a quiet work area where they can spread out, such as a conference room, although you can have them work anywhere. My advice is make them comfortable so they can do their work and go away..

Next, they look through your records and make copies. They check your system to make sure it is indexed by model's legal last name and can be cross-referenced. If they are looking at your video Butt Bangers Ball #45 and there are 15 models in that video, they should be able to see a record for each model in that video and that record should show that the model appeared in that video. They look at the copies of ID's and want to see the model's name and date of birth. The Agent said that he does not consider an ID that is redacted to cover the address and other personal information a violation.

The Agent in charge will then prepare an unofficial courtesy report and give that to you. That report states any violations that they noted. If you have a missing model ID or the records are not cross-referenced, that is a violation and that will be on the unofficial courtesy report.

The Agent then said you have one week to respond to his unofficial report. So, if there was a missing ID for Ass Man #1, and within that one week you locate the ID and send the ID to the Agent, the Agent will note that although initially in violation that you have taken steps to correct. The Agent said that "it is good if you can show resolution of violations". He also said that if there were any violations that were not resolved in that unofficial grace period "You will see us again"

He repeatedly stated that their intention was to find evidence that models are not underage and that the producer is making a good-faith attempt to comply.
In an unabashed plug for myself, having had an adult industry attorney familiar with 2257 review your record-keeping procedures does help to show a good-faith effort to comply. :-)

Of the 10 inspections so far, he said only 2 had no violations noted. The most common violations were:

Failure to cross-reference legal names, stage names, and all the movies that the model appeared in

Missing Photo ID

Photo ID that was not legible or could not tell who the person was in the ID because of poor copy quality. He said a good ID has a clear face shot, the face shot matches the model in the video, and the date of birth is legible.

The Agent also said that one thing they do not like is deception on a website, such as a false address or PO Box. He said "We will find you" He also said that if you really are a US company using an off-shore 2257 address is not a good idea.

The Agent also addressed the "hours of business" requirement. He stated "If we show up and you have a sign on your door that says 'Gone for 3 weeks on vacation' they will simply come back. However, you cannot be on vacation forever and you do need to be there at some time. He said posting your business hours on your 2257 statement is a good idea, and they have no problem with webmaster's business hours. He said that if you do not want to post your hours, you can contact the FBI and tell them your business hours privately.

The Agent summed it up by saying that if you show a good faith intention to comply that the likelihood of prosecution is nil. THAT is great news!!

crockett · 02-07-2007, 05:22 PM

So did anyone happen to video tape it? If so will it show up for download by any chance?

Webby · 02-07-2007, 05:27 PM

Nice update Chad - thank you

Quote:

He also said that if you really are a US company using an off-shore 2257 address is not a good idea.

Amusing

tony286 · 02-07-2007, 05:28 PM

did he talk about having to have every link of the girl on the website in your 2257 info? It sounds like they are targeting the dvds guys more?

Oracle Porn · 02-07-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

you can contact the FBI and tell them your business hours privately.

I'll do that ASAP! got the icq nubmer of that agent?

BoyAlley · 02-07-2007, 05:29 PM

Chad, thanks so much for the summary, a lot of people that weren't able to attend, myself included, appreciate it!

WarChild · 02-07-2007, 05:30 PM

No you must have heard it all wrong. The FBI has been personally empowered by Dubya to destroy the adult industry and 2257 is the tool they're supposed to do it with. Have fear, the sky is indeed still falling.

SinisterStudios · 02-07-2007, 05:33 PM

Wow thats sounds like pretty good news, maybe they are relizing were not the problem and that were actually against CP.

But then again Bush is still imn office so we have alot to still fear

chadknowslaw · 02-07-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

did he talk about having to have every link of the girl on the website in your 2257 info? It sounds like they are targeting the dvds guys more?

He said they were looking for "good faith compliance" and also said that although the first 10 have been DVD types, that it was just a matter of time before websites would be inspected. I got the impression that if you have a record for Model Girl Gabriel [sounds like a BBW to me ;-) ] and you have links, but not _each and every one_ that this Agent would not consider that a violation.

This Agent was one of only 2 supervisors-- and the other supervisor was in the audience. He said that one of them would be at every inspection, so that does really limit the number of inspections they could perform. However he also said they were getting more funding for 2007, but did not say how much.

Also, the topic of having clips shown on your website was brought up and if there needed to be a 2257 statement ON EACH CLIP. This Agent said that if he saw the 2257 link at the bottom of the page, but not on the clip itself, as long as the link was there he would not consider that a violation.

chadknowslaw · 02-07-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oracle Porn

I'll do that ASAP! got the icq nubmer of that agent?

He gave out his email address. Send me an email if you really want it

MaDalton · 02-07-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

At the end, the attorneys who were sitting up there with him were quick to point out that what the Agent said was not legal advice and some of what he said contradicted the regulations. They also basically said you still need to retain them at enormous cost to keep yourselves protected

I was there and took plenty of notes. Most lawyers would charge you for a consultation but as you know I am NOT like most lawyers!

true dat

thanks for the update, chad!

tony286 · 02-07-2007, 05:47 PM

Thanks Chad, I figure these guys are just doing their job and probably wish they had a better assignment. So if they come a knocking I plan on making them as comfortable as possible and be very respectful.

Jensen · 02-07-2007, 05:57 PM

the most interresting thing on GFY this year.. thanks for posting!

chadknowslaw · 02-07-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Thanks Chad, I figure these guys are just doing their job and probably wish they had a better assignment. So if they come a knocking I plan on making them as comfortable as possible and be very respectful.

Of all types of law enforcement -- local police, sheriff's deputies, state patrols, usually the FBI are the best trained and least likely to be in the job because they had serious disorders and picked on as children. If you treat them with respect they will be respectful to you.

SCtyger · 02-07-2007, 06:26 PM

excellent update.

MaDalton · 02-07-2007, 06:29 PM

you think hiding $100 bills in your files might help???

02-07-2007, 06:33 PM

Very nice read! I was upset that I missed that seminar, but a summary like this is 2nd best.

Thanks!

SleazyDream · 02-07-2007, 06:39 PM

very good read - thank you

fardoche27 · 02-07-2007, 06:42 PM

Has anyone here been inspected yet?

stickyfingerz · 02-07-2007, 06:42 PM

Very cool stuff. Chad is my favorite lawyer to snuggle with...

F U S I O N · 02-07-2007, 06:58 PM

Good post! Thank you!

tony286 · 02-07-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

you think hiding $100 bills in your files might help???

if it could so easy lol

bausch · 02-07-2007, 07:07 PM

Did they say anything about inspecting secondary producers in the future? Like gallery submitters.. etc??

beta-tester · 02-07-2007, 07:08 PM

Great read indeed. Thanks for very informative update

!

CaptainHowdy · 02-07-2007, 07:09 PM

Great heads !!

Quick Buck · 02-07-2007, 07:16 PM

wonderful information. lets hope it's true.

RealityWife · 02-07-2007, 07:25 PM

Thanks for the post Chad.

rockbear · 02-07-2007, 07:33 PM

Thank you very much Chad... I'm sure that everybody will appreciate that post. Keep your good work :-)

Bake · 02-07-2007, 07:35 PM

Thankyou for that

The Captain · 02-07-2007, 07:59 PM

thanks you for this

Brad Mitchell · 02-07-2007, 08:09 PM

Thank you very much Chad for sharing your notes from the seminar!!

Brad

MikeSmoke · 02-07-2007, 08:09 PM

The AVN article said that the FBI claims it's OK to have a lawyer or someone else hired to be your custodian of records so that you don't have to post your home address???!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!?!

RogerV · 02-07-2007, 08:09 PM

Thanks for the update

BoyAlley · 02-07-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSmoke

The AVN article said that the FBI claims it's OK to have a lawyer or someone else hired to be your custodian of records so that you don't have to post your home address???!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!?!

I read that too. That is HUGE news if we could get the DOJ to come out and confirm it.

snowpimp · 02-07-2007, 08:18 PM

very useful post, thanks and gfy

chadknowslaw · 02-07-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSmoke

The AVN article said that the FBI claims it's OK to have a lawyer or someone else hired to be your custodian of records so that you don't have to post your home address???!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!?!

Yes, that is EXACTLY what the Agent said! Of course, the attorneys on the panel nearly had strokes when he said it.
He said that you could employ an agent, like an attorney, to be your record keeper and as long as the office address is listed, and if his team shows up and says "Let me see your records" and the records are there ready for inspection he would not consider that to be a violation at all.

Doctor Dre · 02-07-2007, 08:20 PM

Very nice of you to post this... It dosen't sound so bad after all, all you have to do is keep your records straight.... The rest is common sence.

AllStar · 02-07-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

Yes, that is EXACTLY what the Agent said! Of course, the attorneys on the panel nearly had strokes when he said it.
He said that you could employ an agent, like an attorney, to be your record keeper and as long as the office address is listed, and if his team shows up and says "Let me see your records" and the records are there ready for inspection he would not consider that to be a violation at all.

That would be the smartest thing of all. It would be the most professional too. And of course the lawyers are happy cause they can charge for the service.

AllStar · 02-07-2007, 08:25 PM

What did they say about sites indexing all the urls?

I guess it shows good faith that you tried?

It also would be great if they actually showed an example of a passable file!

chadknowslaw · 02-07-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllStar

That would be the smartest thing of all. It would be the most professional too. And of course the lawyers are happy cause they can charge for the service.

That would also allow the cam girls and boys that work out of their homes from having to post their home address, which is an open invitation to stalkers and puts those small website owners in danger.

tony286 · 02-07-2007, 08:27 PM

The lawyer as your record keeper wouldnt work because its always changing.Its not like you do it once and lock it up in a closet. Also Ive always heard that isnt the case. Also just because the fbi says its ok doesnt mean its ok because the DOJ decides who to go after and who not to.

dev777 · 02-07-2007, 08:38 PM

thanks for the post chad, much appreciated

K R I S T E N · 02-07-2007, 08:41 PM

XBIZ filmed it AND will be offering it for download as well as transcriptions of this AND the .XXX seminar

BoyAlley · 02-07-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBizKristen

XBIZ filmed it AND will be offering it for download as well as transcriptions of this AND the .XXX seminar

Wow. Now THAT is thexy!

reynold · 02-07-2007, 08:46 PM

Thanks for the informative post, Chad. That should clarify some misconceptions.

Bozena X · 02-07-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

Yes, that is EXACTLY what the Agent said! Of course, the attorneys on the panel nearly had strokes when he said it.
He said that you could employ an agent, like an attorney, to be your record keeper and as long as the office address is listed, and if his team shows up and says "Let me see your records" and the records are there ready for inspection he would not consider that to be a violation at all.

that is something to think about...

Pleasurepays · 02-07-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSmoke

The AVN article said that the FBI claims it's OK to have a lawyer or someone else hired to be your custodian of records so that you don't have to post your home address???!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!?!

why would a third party make themselves criminally liable for your behavior or the behavior of multiple clients?

Luscious Media · 02-07-2007, 09:52 PM

Great information. Thanks.

It's been said before but I'll say it again anyhow. Don't keep your bong near your records.

stickyfingerz · 02-07-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

The lawyer as your record keeper wouldnt work because its always changing.Its not like you do it once and lock it up in a closet. Also Ive always heard that isnt the case. Also just because the fbi says its ok doesnt mean its ok because the DOJ decides who to go after and who not to.

Could you not email each new record to the lawyer? Ad some new talent, scan in the documents, email them off. Lawyer prints off, and files them. Or just ads them to a 2257 data base program for that client. If that can be totally confirmed as being lawful I would prefer that.

stickyfingerz · 02-07-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

why would a third party make themselves criminally liable for your behavior or the behavior of multiple clients?

That would not make them liable, it would make them the custodian of records. More like an assistant or secretary. If there was an issue with the inspection they would be coming to the actual business owner, not the person holding your records in proxy for you.

02-07-2007, 05:22 PM	#2
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	So did anyone happen to video tape it? If so will it show up for download by any chance? __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

02-07-2007, 05:30 PM	#7
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	No you must have heard it all wrong. The FBI has been personally empowered by Dubya to destroy the adult industry and 2257 is the tool they're supposed to do it with. Have fear, the sky is indeed still falling. __________________ .

02-07-2007, 05:33 PM	#8
SinisterStudios Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Joisey Posts: 3,087	Wow thats sounds like pretty good news, maybe they are relizing were not the problem and that were actually against CP. But then again Bush is still imn office so we have alot to still fear __________________ SEOIP.com Multiple IP Webhosting Shared and Dedicated IP's - Multiple Class A's - From $1.99/ip

02-07-2007, 06:26 PM	#15
SCtyger Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 564	excellent update. __________________ http://www.silvercash.com/

02-07-2007, 06:29 PM	#16
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 39,829	you think hiding $100 bills in your files might help??? __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you! Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

02-07-2007, 05:20 PM	#1
chadknowslaw Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 343	FBI Agent talks about 2257 Inspections at XBiz Conference This morning at the XBiz conference we were treated to a truly astounding seminar-- an FBI Agent supervisor involved in 2257 inspections addressing adult webmasters and taking questions! At the end, the attorneys who were sitting up there with him were quick to point out that what the Agent said was not legal advice and some of what he said contradicted the regulations. They also basically said you still need to retain them at enormous cost to keep yourselves protected I was there and took plenty of notes. Most lawyers would charge you for a consultation but as you know I am NOT like most lawyers! First, the agent told us the procedure they go through to conduct an inspection. They have a list of 1200 producers [and adding to that list all the time] and randomly select a producer from that list. If your number comes up, they first order some product from you, such as ordering a DVD. Then they take that product and review it for obvious compliance --does it have the 2257 statement on it and do any of the models look underage. This first phase is looking for 2 things -- if you at least appear to be in compliance and if you have obviously underage models. They make a list of all the models that appear in the video, either by stage name or some other reference if there is no stage name. For example, if you have a scene where you never see a models face but only see his ass getting pounded they might call that "Ass Man #1" The Agents prepare a spreadsheet with the models and plan a little visit to you. They take a photograph of the exterior of the address listed and then photographs of the room where your records are kept and a 3rd photograph of the work area they are assigned. The Agent specifically said they appreciate a quiet work area where they can spread out, such as a conference room, although you can have them work anywhere. My advice is make them comfortable so they can do their work and go away.. Next, they look through your records and make copies. They check your system to make sure it is indexed by model's legal last name and can be cross-referenced. If they are looking at your video Butt Bangers Ball #45 and there are 15 models in that video, they should be able to see a record for each model in that video and that record should show that the model appeared in that video. They look at the copies of ID's and want to see the model's name and date of birth. The Agent said that he does not consider an ID that is redacted to cover the address and other personal information a violation. The Agent in charge will then prepare an unofficial courtesy report and give that to you. That report states any violations that they noted. If you have a missing model ID or the records are not cross-referenced, that is a violation and that will be on the unofficial courtesy report. The Agent then said you have one week to respond to his unofficial report. So, if there was a missing ID for Ass Man #1, and within that one week you locate the ID and send the ID to the Agent, the Agent will note that although initially in violation that you have taken steps to correct. The Agent said that "it is good if you can show resolution of violations". He also said that if there were any violations that were not resolved in that unofficial grace period "You will see us again" He repeatedly stated that their intention was to find evidence that models are not underage and that the producer is making a good-faith attempt to comply. In an unabashed plug for myself, having had an adult industry attorney familiar with 2257 review your record-keeping procedures does help to show a good-faith effort to comply. :-) Of the 10 inspections so far, he said only 2 had no violations noted. The most common violations were: Failure to cross-reference legal names, stage names, and all the movies that the model appeared in Missing Photo ID Photo ID that was not legible or could not tell who the person was in the ID because of poor copy quality. He said a good ID has a clear face shot, the face shot matches the model in the video, and the date of birth is legible. The Agent also said that one thing they do not like is deception on a website, such as a false address or PO Box. He said "We will find you" He also said that if you really are a US company using an off-shore 2257 address is not a good idea. The Agent also addressed the "hours of business" requirement. He stated "If we show up and you have a sign on your door that says 'Gone for 3 weeks on vacation' they will simply come back. However, you cannot be on vacation forever and you do need to be there at some time. He said posting your business hours on your 2257 statement is a good idea, and they have no problem with webmaster's business hours. He said that if you do not want to post your hours, you can contact the FBI and tell them your business hours privately. The Agent summed it up by saying that if you show a good faith intention to comply that the likelihood of prosecution is nil. THAT is great news!! __________________ ChadKnowsLaw

02-07-2007, 05:28 PM	#4
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	did he talk about having to have every link of the girl on the website in your 2257 info? It sounds like they are targeting the dvds guys more?

02-07-2007, 05:29 PM	#6
BoyAlley So Fucking Gay Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19,714	Chad, thanks so much for the summary, a lot of people that weren't able to attend, myself included, appreciate it!

02-07-2007, 05:47 PM	#12
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Thanks Chad, I figure these guys are just doing their job and probably wish they had a better assignment. So if they come a knocking I plan on making them as comfortable as possible and be very respectful.

02-07-2007, 05:57 PM	#13
Jensen Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 3,790	the most interresting thing on GFY this year.. thanks for posting!

02-07-2007, 06:33 PM	#17
shermo Guest Posts: n/a	Very nice read! I was upset that I missed that seminar, but a summary like this is 2nd best. Thanks!

02-07-2007, 06:39 PM	#18
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	very good read - thank you __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

02-07-2007, 06:42 PM	#19
fardoche27 Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Quebec Posts: 638	Has anyone here been inspected yet?

02-07-2007, 06:42 PM	#20
stickyfingerz Doin fine Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 24,984	Very cool stuff. Chad is my favorite lawyer to snuggle with...

02-07-2007, 06:58 PM	#21
F U S I O N Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,898	Good post! Thank you!

02-07-2007, 07:07 PM	#23
bausch Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,017	Did they say anything about inspecting secondary producers in the future? Like gallery submitters.. etc??

02-07-2007, 07:08 PM	#24
beta-tester Rock 'n Roll Baby! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA, temporarly Posts: 22,562	Great read indeed. Thanks for very informative update ! __________________ Sig for sale. Affordable prices. Contact me and get a great deal ;) My contact: ICQ: 944-320-46 e-mail: manca {AT} HotFreeSex4All.com

02-07-2007, 07:09 PM	#25
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02-07-2007, 07:16 PM	#26
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02-07-2007, 07:25 PM	#27
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02-07-2007, 07:33 PM	#28
rockbear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 806	Thank you very much Chad... I'm sure that everybody will appreciate that post. Keep your good work :-)

02-07-2007, 07:35 PM	#29
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02-07-2007, 07:59 PM	#30
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02-07-2007, 08:09 PM	#31
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02-07-2007, 08:09 PM	#32
MikeSmoke Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SoCal Posts: 3,233	The AVN article said that the FBI claims it's OK to have a lawyer or someone else hired to be your custodian of records so that you don't have to post your home address???!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!?! __________________ icq: 541-739-92

02-07-2007, 08:09 PM	#33
RogerV Banned! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,591	Thanks for the update

02-07-2007, 08:18 PM	#35
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02-07-2007, 08:25 PM	#39
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02-07-2007, 08:27 PM	#41
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	The lawyer as your record keeper wouldnt work because its always changing.Its not like you do it once and lock it up in a closet. Also Ive always heard that isnt the case. Also just because the fbi says its ok doesnt mean its ok because the DOJ decides who to go after and who not to.

02-07-2007, 08:38 PM	#42
dev777 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 366	thanks for the post chad, much appreciated

02-07-2007, 08:41 PM	#43
K R I S T E N Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,438	XBIZ filmed it AND will be offering it for download as well as transcriptions of this AND the .XXX seminar __________________ K R I S T E N KSquaredDynamics, Inc. ~ Taking Care of {YOUR} Business

02-07-2007, 08:46 PM	#45
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	Thanks for the informative post, Chad. That should clarify some misconceptions.

02-07-2007, 09:52 PM	#48
Luscious Media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Foxwoods Posts: 785	Great information. Thanks. It's been said before but I'll say it again anyhow. Don't keep your bong near your records. __________________ Luscious Media ICQ: 293-550-859 CFNM Cash