GFY Lawyers - Ohio DUI question - GoFuckYourself.com

budz · 01-26-2007, 07:07 PM

Soo, someone I know left a bar last night after 5 hours of doing double shots.

This person left the bar and drove 10 blocks until they wrecked and picked up a DUI.

Can the bar be found liable for letting her leave so drunk? (in Ohio)

Big_Red · 01-26-2007, 07:10 PM

you are guilty. pay the man.

baddog · 01-26-2007, 07:10 PM

Not sure of Ohio laws, but if you think your friend can skate because the bar let her drive I doubt that will work.

DateDoc · 01-26-2007, 07:11 PM

Liable for getting you drunk? Doubt it and for the car wreck - no way. Now if you hit someone and injured them you and the bar could be liable.

budz · 01-26-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Red

you are guilty. pay the man.

luckily, it wasn't me! I don't drink and drive! However, I did get a ticket last week for goin 86 in a 55 (lol cost me $126)

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Not sure of Ohio laws, but if you think your friend can skate because the bar let her drive I doubt that will work.

no, just I don't think they should have let her go in the condition that she was in... there has to be some liability..

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterPorn

Now if you hit someone and injured them you and the bar could be liable.

ah, I knew there was something.

woj · 01-26-2007, 07:20 PM

That's a stupid idea, your friend (or whoever) made a mistake, they should face the consequences... trying to sue the bar is very lame...

L-Pink · 01-26-2007, 07:28 PM

I carry a West Virginia license ..........

.

budz · 01-26-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

That's a stupid idea, your friend (or whoever) made a mistake, they should face the consequences... trying to sue the bar is very lame...

Didn't really imply that she is trying to sue the bar..

I was just wondering what the liability is, if any.

I think it's very fucked up that they let someone who was there drinking hard for 5 hours leave.

It's not like she was a stranger, they all knew her very well... She talked to them while she was drinking for 5 hours..

I'm glad this person didn't hurt themselves or anyone else.. it would've been a lot worse.

LMAO @ the Wv drivers license

I actually had 1 DUI in Wv in the 90's lmao I was a dumb kid then.

btw, drinking & driving is teh lame!

Spunky · 01-26-2007, 08:29 PM

Not sure what the bar can be liable for..all they can do is cut you off.It's not like they can demand the car keys from you.It's your responsibility

EBORG9 · 01-26-2007, 09:00 PM

Is your freind 21? Cased closed. Her fault. Her resposibility.
I was a Bartender for 15 years, and I got a DUI in OHIO when I was in college.
(Michigan /OU game, we won, the cops were pricks)

People have been trying the "It's the bars fault " thing for years, the bottom line is, she went in of her own free will, PAID for drinks and then drove.

There is not a human alive that doesn't know the consequenses of getting caught.

But it brings up one of my favorite questions: If drinking and driving is illegal, why do bars have paring lots? Hmm?

baddog · 01-26-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budz

no, just I don't think they should have let her go in the condition that she was in... there has to be some liability..

why is that? is she not a responsible adult?

NE0MAVEN · 01-26-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budz

Soo, someone I know left a bar last night after 5 hours of doing double shots.

This person left the bar and drove 10 blocks until they wrecked and picked up a DUI.

Can the bar be found liable for letting her leave so drunk? (in Ohio)

She should have called me. I would have picked her up and taken her home. Well, I would have taken her to my home. She sounds wild and crazy! Just the kind of girl I like! Was she naked when she was arrested?

baddog · 01-26-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBORG9

But it brings up one of my favorite questions: If drinking and driving is illegal, why do bars have paring lots? Hmm?

Because responsible people know when to say when.

NE0MAVEN · 01-26-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBORG9

But it brings up one of my favorite questions: If drinking and driving is illegal, why do bars have paring lots? Hmm?

Well, it is a very easy answer . . . drinking and driving ISN'T illegal!!!

Driving under the influence is!

There is an attorney who actually runs advertisements that say, "Drinking and Driving IS NOT ILLEGAL." Because, you can drink and drive as long as you do not exceed the legal limit of the blood alcohol level for that state.

What city was she arrested in?

NE0MAVEN · 01-26-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Because responsible people know when to say when.

Oh, come on baddog . . . . you look like you've never said, "NO" to a drink or a drug. Hypocrite!

Spunky · 01-26-2007, 09:24 PM

Anybody who drinks and drives deserves to be caught..take a cab

NE0MAVEN · 01-26-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunky

Anybody who drinks and drives deserves to be caught..take a cab

Sounds like you are a bitter drunk!

Also, it has been established that drinking and driving IS NOT ILLEGAL!

Driving under the influence is.

Blood alcohol levels vary from state to state.

Drink and drive my friends! Just don't drive while impaired!

Spunky · 01-26-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NE0MAVEN

Sounds like you are a bitter drunk!

Also, it has been established that drinking and driving IS NOT ILLEGAL!

Driving under the influence is.

Blood alcohol levels vary from state to state.

Drink and drive my friends! Just don't drive while impaired!

.08 is like a beer.so unless you drink half of it,you're breaking the law.I'm not bitter but I have one nail in the coffin from years back and it sucked.If I get caught another time I go to jail,the third time I never drive again.

BigDeanEvans · 01-26-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunky

.08 is like a beer.so unless you drink half of it,you're breaking the law.I'm not bitter but I have one nail in the coffin from years back and it sucked.If I get caught another time I go to jail,the third time I never drive again.

i think that depends on your height and weight. I drank 4-5 beers in 2-3 hours and drove. I was pulled over brought back to the station and blew a .04

BTW last i knew a bar can be held responsible if they serve someone who is clearly intoxicated

BigDeanEvans · 01-26-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Because responsible people know when to say when.

Can you honestly say in all your years you've never once had a few and drove?

baddog · 01-26-2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NE0MAVEN

Oh, come on baddog . . . . you look like you've never said, "NO" to a drink or a drug. Hypocrite!

Don't judge a book by its cover, idiot. I turn down plenty of drinks.

baddog · 01-26-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDeanEvans

Can you honestly say in all your years you've never once had a few and drove?

I was very irresponsible in my youth. I am lucky to be alive. Will be the first to admit it.

Doesn't change my comment.

pornguy · 01-26-2007, 10:14 PM

There are a few cases in FL where the liability was put back on the bar, but I believe that they involved accidents with injuries.

The best bet she has, is to talk with the officer. OUT SIDE COURT! Plead with him to not show, or to say that he does not recall the stop with her. If it was a check point, then she is fucked.

Sosa · 01-26-2007, 10:17 PM

her fucking mistake

Nicky · 01-26-2007, 10:20 PM

Seriousley, Only In America

tony286 · 01-26-2007, 10:24 PM

In GA they can dont know about Ohio. In NY a bar across from where I worked, this was 20 yrs ago. It was one of those small mom pop bars, the guy drank so much he died of alcohol poisoning . They charged the bartender with man slaughter.

cosis · 01-26-2007, 10:27 PM

I would say no........

DrunkEric · 01-26-2007, 10:42 PM

Tell your friend to just face the music and deal with it. He/She/It knew what they were doing when they left the bar, and the entire 5 hours of doing the double shots.

When I got mine I could have blamed the cab companies for leaving me no other options, but I still got behind the wheel knowing damn well I was in no shape to drive. (by blaming the cab companies I mean one refused to answer the phone which they are known for around the hours of 1am-5am and the other flat out refused to pick me up) I actually got busted because I dropped my lighter on the floor and was trying to pick it up. The cop behind me saw my head bobbing and thought I was falling alseep and pulled me over.

As for the person that said .08 is less then a beer, you should really do some research before spouting your retarded opinion. If you are a 47 lbs male then yes one beer will put you at the .08 limit and if you are 25 lbs a half a beer will put you around the .08 area, but I am guessing most people have passed that weight point by now

Your friend fucked up, its time to deal with it, not try to pass the buck off on someone else. If they do somehow manage to get away with it, they will be back in court for it in the near future anyway.. the DUI is a wake up call for a lot of people, including myself, to get shit straightened out in life

rowan · 01-26-2007, 11:07 PM

Would your friend hold the bar liable if someone slipped a roofie in her drink and took her home?

budz · 01-26-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

why is that? is she not a responsible adult?

clearly not, lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrunkEric

He/She/It knew what they were doing when they left the bar, and the entire 5 hours of doing the double shots.

I don't think she actually did after so much drinking..

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrunkEric

Your friend fucked up, its time to deal with it, not try to pass the buck off on someone else.

She isn't, it is just my en quiring mind that started this thread.. nothing more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan

Would your friend hold the bar liable if someone slipped a roofie in her drink and took her home?

I would hold the person liable who gave her the roofie.. just like I think the person that gave her drinks for 5 hours and let her go should be liable. They should have to take some sort of classes or something.

I mean c'mon sure u can't take their keys - but u can cut them off.

budz · 01-26-2007, 11:29 PM

I guess that I would make a horrible bartender.

I'd be more worried about the people than the bottom line

budz · 01-26-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

In GA they can dont know about Ohio.

lost me on that one, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

In NY a bar across from where I worked, this was 20 yrs ago. It was one of those small mom pop bars, the guy drank so much he died of alcohol poisoning . They charged the bartender with man slaughter.

Did he get convicted, or do you remember? J/W

Jack_Daniels · 01-26-2007, 11:40 PM

Don't blame the fucking bar. She's an adult and she should take responsibility for her own actions.

Having said that, she should instead hire herself a good lawyer and plead to a lesser charge (if they'll let her) or try to beat the rap on a technicality

Spunky · 01-26-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrunkEric

As for the person that said .08 is less then a beer, you should really do some research before spouting your retarded opinion. If you are a 47 lbs male then yes one beer will put you at the .08 limit and if you are 25 lbs a half a beer will put you around the .08 area, but I am guessing most people have passed that weight point by now

That's the law here,I'm not willing to risk another chance cause I drank 2 beers

mikesouth · 01-27-2007, 12:57 AM

ok its a civil case not criminal so the bar is not liable. period.

In a civil suit could it be argued that the bar and the bartender or waitress who served her were negligent. yes.

But The burden of proof is going to be rather high because to prove negligence she will have to prove that whoever served her kept serving her after they KNEW her to be intoxicated, and even then the jury is likely to find that she is the one who bears full responsibility, even though she might argue diminished capacity.

I think its a chickenshit manuever to be sure but it has been successful on occassion. It still won't erase her criminal charge or get her aquitted.

her only hope is monetary damages...and thats gonna be a real crapshoot...no lawyer but a really hungry one would risk taking THAT on contingency....its probably a loser.

BVF · 01-27-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

The best bet she has, is to talk with the officer. OUT SIDE COURT! Plead with him to not show, or to say that he does not recall the stop with her.

It's Ohio, not Mexico.

Fizzgig · 01-27-2007, 02:55 AM

Duh. Just.. Duh.

Sarah_Jayne · 01-27-2007, 03:34 AM

deserve whatever they get

bobby666 · 01-27-2007, 05:55 AM

i would look for a new friend

Matt 26z · 01-27-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budz

I think it's very fucked up that they let someone who was there drinking hard for 5 hours leave.

Put down the crack pipe man.

Bars have no legal authority to lock drunks in a room until they sober up. The most they could have done is called the police, and she still gets a DUI.

Lycanthrope · 01-27-2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Put down the crack pipe man.

Bars have no legal authority to lock drunks in a room until they sober up. The most they could have done is called the police, and she still gets a DUI.

Exactly, but then they would be bitching about the "narcs" in the bar...

Can't win.

The lack of personal responsibility and growing sense of entitlement in this country is getting sickening.

budz · 01-27-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

But The burden of proof is going to be rather high

she happens to have a rather high tab from that night, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarah_webinc

deserve whatever they get

I couldn't agree more!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby666

i would look for a new friend

It's actually a relative..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Put down the crack pipe man.

No thanks, wouldn't want u to run off with it..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Bars have no legal authority to lock drunks in a room until they sober up. The most they could have done is called the police, and she still gets a DUI.

Weird,.. I'm pretty sure if I let someone leave my property and they were drunk (even if I didn't serve them) it would be partially my fault if something happened.

Maybe I'm just a helluva guy, but I wouldn't let someone leave that was impaired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

The lack of personal responsibility and growing sense of entitlement in this country is getting sickening.

Relax, it's a forum - I made a post.
this person IS taking full responsibility for her actions.

I just cant beleive they would serve someone like 30 double shots in a 5 hour period and let them drive home.

It would definitely be a different story if I was the bartender, lol.

Nubiles · 01-27-2007, 09:31 AM

Why cant people accept responsibility for their own actions?

budz · 01-27-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunkspringbreakgirls

Why cant people accept responsibility for their own actions?

yeah.. you totally did not read the thread.

Forest · 01-27-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NE0MAVEN

Blood alcohol levels vary from state to state.

they dio not as far as i understand it

.08 is illegal in all states

Forest · 01-27-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDeanEvans

BTW last i knew a bar can be held responsible if they serve someone who is clearly intoxicated

that is true but only if they injure someone else in the accident

WarChild · 01-27-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budz

I just cant beleive they would serve someone like 30 double shots in a 5 hour period and let them drive home.

60 ounces of booze in 5 hours for anyone that's less than 700 pounds is pretty extreme. I don't see how it's possible for anyone other than a habitual alcoholic with some serious body weight to do it.

budz · 01-27-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

60 ounces of booze in 5 hours for anyone that's less than 700 pounds is pretty extreme. I don't see how it's possible for anyone other than a habitual alcoholic with some serious body weight to do it.

yah, I'd consider them an alchy .. . she prob weighs 140lbs

30 doubles may be a little bit of an exaggeration.. but not by much

King Adam · 01-27-2007, 11:31 AM

www.KenBossinLaw.com - One of the best DUI lawyers in Ohio

also get free advice at
www.ohiolawhelp.com

baddog · 01-27-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

ok its a civil case not criminal so the bar is not liable. period.

You lost me . . . she got a DUI . . . how is that a civil matter?

01-26-2007, 07:07 PM	#1
budz Disruptive Innovator Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Vegas Posts: 4,230	GFY Lawyers - Ohio DUI question Soo, someone I know left a bar last night after 5 hours of doing double shots. This person left the bar and drove 10 blocks until they wrecked and picked up a DUI. Can the bar be found liable for letting her leave so drunk? (in Ohio) __________________ C:\Code\ C:\Code\Run\

01-26-2007, 07:10 PM	#2
Big_Red Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Do you care? Posts: 4,147	you are guilty. pay the man. __________________ 60% Revshare. http://www.boobycash.com We got the boobs and the cash! ICQ 198-580-197 24/7 support

01-26-2007, 07:11 PM	#4
DateDoc Outside looking in. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: To Hell You Ride Posts: 14,243	Liable for getting you drunk? Doubt it and for the car wreck - no way. Now if you hit someone and injured them you and the bar could be liable. __________________

01-26-2007, 07:20 PM	#6
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	That's a stupid idea, your friend (or whoever) made a mistake, they should face the consequences... trying to sue the bar is very lame... __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

01-26-2007, 08:29 PM	#9
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,947	Not sure what the bar can be liable for..all they can do is cut you off.It's not like they can demand the car keys from you.It's your responsibility __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

01-26-2007, 07:10 PM	#3
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Not sure of Ohio laws, but if you think your friend can skate because the bar let her drive I doubt that will work.

01-26-2007, 07:28 PM	#7
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	I carry a West Virginia license .......... .

01-26-2007, 09:00 PM	#10
EBORG9 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,823	Is your freind 21? Cased closed. Her fault. Her resposibility. I was a Bartender for 15 years, and I got a DUI in OHIO when I was in college. (Michigan /OU game, we won, the cops were pricks) People have been trying the "It's the bars fault " thing for years, the bottom line is, she went in of her own free will, PAID for drinks and then drove. There is not a human alive that doesn't know the consequenses of getting caught. But it brings up one of my favorite questions: If drinking and driving is illegal, why do bars have paring lots? Hmm?

01-26-2007, 09:24 PM	#16
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,947	Anybody who drinks and drives deserves to be caught..take a cab __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

01-26-2007, 10:14 PM	#23
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	There are a few cases in FL where the liability was put back on the bar, but I believe that they involved accidents with injuries. The best bet she has, is to talk with the officer. OUT SIDE COURT! Plead with him to not show, or to say that he does not recall the stop with her. If it was a check point, then she is fucked. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

01-26-2007, 10:17 PM	#24
Sosa In Tushy Land Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 40,149	her fucking mistake

01-26-2007, 10:20 PM	#25
Nicky Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,069	Seriousley, Only In America __________________ gfynicky @ gmail.com

01-26-2007, 10:24 PM	#26
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	In GA they can dont know about Ohio. In NY a bar across from where I worked, this was 20 yrs ago. It was one of those small mom pop bars, the guy drank so much he died of alcohol poisoning . They charged the bartender with man slaughter.

01-26-2007, 10:27 PM	#27
cosis Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Beach Posts: 5,282	I would say no........

01-26-2007, 10:42 PM	#28
DrunkEric Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Allentown PA Posts: 154	Tell your friend to just face the music and deal with it. He/She/It knew what they were doing when they left the bar, and the entire 5 hours of doing the double shots. When I got mine I could have blamed the cab companies for leaving me no other options, but I still got behind the wheel knowing damn well I was in no shape to drive. (by blaming the cab companies I mean one refused to answer the phone which they are known for around the hours of 1am-5am and the other flat out refused to pick me up) I actually got busted because I dropped my lighter on the floor and was trying to pick it up. The cop behind me saw my head bobbing and thought I was falling alseep and pulled me over. As for the person that said .08 is less then a beer, you should really do some research before spouting your retarded opinion. If you are a 47 lbs male then yes one beer will put you at the .08 limit and if you are 25 lbs a half a beer will put you around the .08 area, but I am guessing most people have passed that weight point by now Your friend fucked up, its time to deal with it, not try to pass the buck off on someone else. If they do somehow manage to get away with it, they will be back in court for it in the near future anyway.. the DUI is a wake up call for a lot of people, including myself, to get shit straightened out in life

01-26-2007, 11:07 PM	#29
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	Would your friend hold the bar liable if someone slipped a roofie in her drink and took her home?

01-26-2007, 11:29 PM	#31
budz Disruptive Innovator Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Vegas Posts: 4,230	I guess that I would make a horrible bartender. I'd be more worried about the people than the bottom line __________________ C:\Code\ C:\Code\Run\

01-26-2007, 11:40 PM	#33
Jack_Daniels Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wherever I wake up, but not always for long. Posts: 161	Don't blame the fucking bar. She's an adult and she should take responsibility for her own actions. Having said that, she should instead hire herself a good lawyer and plead to a lesser charge (if they'll let her) or try to beat the rap on a technicality __________________ My signature is almost invisible. Last edited by Jack_Daniels; 01-26-2007 at 11:41 PM.. Reason: typo

01-27-2007, 12:57 AM	#35
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	ok its a civil case not criminal so the bar is not liable. period. In a civil suit could it be argued that the bar and the bartender or waitress who served her were negligent. yes. But The burden of proof is going to be rather high because to prove negligence she will have to prove that whoever served her kept serving her after they KNEW her to be intoxicated, and even then the jury is likely to find that she is the one who bears full responsibility, even though she might argue diminished capacity. I think its a chickenshit manuever to be sure but it has been successful on occassion. It still won't erase her criminal charge or get her aquitted. her only hope is monetary damages...and thats gonna be a real crapshoot...no lawyer but a really hungry one would risk taking THAT on contingency....its probably a loser. __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

01-27-2007, 02:55 AM	#37
Fizzgig Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: In Your Dreams Posts: 9,649	Duh. Just.. Duh. __________________ ---'-,-{@ Sassy Grrrl @}-'-,---

01-27-2007, 03:34 AM	#38
Sarah_Jayne Now with more Jayne Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 40,077	deserve whatever they get

01-27-2007, 05:55 AM	#39
bobby666 boots are my religion Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Heart of europe Posts: 21,765	i would look for a new friend __________________

01-27-2007, 09:31 AM	#43
Nubiles Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 1,496	Why cant people accept responsibility for their own actions? __________________ NUBILES.NET : Hosted galleries with thumbs and descriptions \| nn galleries \| Hosted free sites \| 3 new girls shot each week \| Icq 143674274

01-27-2007, 11:31 AM	#49
King Adam Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Valley of the Sun Posts: 5,408	www.KenBossinLaw.com - One of the best DUI lawyers in Ohio also get free advice at www.ohiolawhelp.com __________________ TWISTYSCASH.com - Proven to be One of the BEST Adult Programs Around Promote These Sites : Twistys ~ Busty Ones ~ Nicole Graves ICQ : 9 6 4 4 0 2 2 1