good news against dialers

[Theo]

Dialerking lost their 900 numbers and they got a "premium" rate of 15cents/min for US instead $8/min which is lower than any dialer probably on earth

[cosis]

good

[nocostporn]

wow I'm going over to AWI to celebrate

[ldinternet]

$0.15 per minute is how much they are paying webmasters, not how much they're charging surfers. ;-)

[Theo]

true,but since they can't pay more than 15cents to the largest market which si the US means they can't bill them more. Maybe in order to stay in business they gave near 100% tto the webmasters of what they charge

[Dildozer]

So my understanding of you people is that dialer companies are all crooks. How come? I don't understand how they could lose money if let's they make $x.xx a minute profit for each minute. I mean the money from that must start getting huge when you have alot of wm sending alot of minutes your way. So do you mean they are just too stupid to keep their companies making profit or just crooks literally? The dialers i have tried have always paid so far but now i'm concerned.

[ldinternet]

I was under the impression that they were now charging $3.99/minute to USA surfers. They can't be giving the webmaster a large percentage of the USA rate, because they're still paying $2.00 per minute if a webmaster generates over a certain amount of minutes per day. Taking the telecom company's cut out of that at 1 penny per minute minimum, and their own cut out of it which would have to be 1 penny per minute minumum, at a minumum they have to be charging $2.02 per minute. We all know, it's unlikely that any of them will settle for $0.01 per minute. These are dialer companies after all. ;-) More like they're paying the webmaster $0.15 and pocketing the remaining $3.84 between themselves... as well as reserving some to balance out chargebacks when they occur.



Can't say I'm sure about their current pricing situation, nor do I really care... but $3.99 sounds reasonable in comparison with other dialers out there.
( 'course, its still very high rate for surfers )

[gothweb]

I hate dialers because they are a *scam*.... or in the best cases, a scam waiting to happen. My computer being programmed to dial a 900 number? Great. Sign me up. What is there that could go wrong with that?

Why not just use normal billing? Or 900 billing? Adult websites by the minute? Sheesh.

[Gutterboy]

Originally posted by Dildozer
So my understanding of you people is that dialer companies are all crooks. How come? I don't understand how they could lose money if let's they make $x.xx a minute profit for each minute. I mean the money from that must start getting huge when you have alot of wm sending alot of minutes your way. So do you mean they are just too stupid to keep their companies making profit or just crooks literally? The dialers i have tried have always paid so far but now i'm concerned.

Dialers are not a scam because the people running it make money?

Are you serious?

Get some !

[ldinternet]

Originally posted by Dildozer
So my understanding of you people is that dialer companies are all crooks. How come? I don't understand how they could lose money if let's they make $x.xx a minute profit for each minute.

Well, they're running a program, paying for staff, offices, and the other costs associated with running a dialer program, then they have to pay webmasters too and deal with chargebacks. Either the telephone company, dialer company, or both will be making a nice fat profit and paying the webmaster a small percentage of their rate to surfers. For example, charge surfers $8 and pay the webmaster $1.

So I send 5 surfers, each connect for 10 minutes.

I earn 5 * 10 = 50 minutes, * $1 = $50 in my pocket.

The dialer company and telephone company can split their profit between themselves however they like. Their profit would be...

50 minutes * $7 (after they have paid me) = $350

Already I have my check from the dialer company, I've cashed it and it is sitting in my account. At the end of the month the surfers get their telephone bills for $80 each, and they're like... "what the fuck?!". So they call their telephone company and they work it out together -- the telephone company refunds the surfer. Four out of five of those calls may charge back.

The initial income was $400.
I was paid $50.

$350 remains.
There are 4 chargebacks at $80 each... 4 * 80 = $320.

Deduct expenses totalling more than $30 (which has to be split between the dialer company and telecom company in the first place) and there is a net loss. $15 each from five calls? Both companies will be thinking, "fuck that!"


I'm not saying that 4 out of every 5 dialer surfers do charge back, but this is just an example of how excessive chargebacks affect the dialer business and are a problem, and how a dialer company can lose money even when charging so much per minute and making an insane profit on those callers that don't charge back. I don't know how it worked with Dialer King. Whether they were making a loss on their US minutes or just had a lot of chargebacks, I don't know. Personally I don't care.

Charging less is a possibility but nobody (webmaster, dialer company, telecom company) wants to be earning like 3 cents per minute, blah de blah blah blah... anyway, fuck dialers.

[Dildozer]

well it does work quite well and pays off nice. What's wrong with having access from your desktop to a porn site if there aren'T kids on the machine? Oh the kids. I wonder how many parents try chargebacks cuz their kid got horny one night.

So then couldn't I get a dialer and negociate rates with 900 companies? Then i'd make sure i get my money and all the profits would come back to me.

[EscortBiz]

Did you ever try calling your phone company to make a 900 number chargeback?

If you did you would be shocked how easy it is, they don't question anything! The most they might do is put a 900 number restriction on your line.

In the regular sex / psychic line 900 numbers the large service bureaus record the first 60 seconds of each phone call, and when you call the billing company to chargeback they play back "yes im stroking my cock my name is john" or something

Even with that chargebacks are at about 25%

[Dildozer]

IdInternet thanks alot for the reply. It makes alot of sense and i really appreciate it.

As for you gutterboy, well thanks for your help you've been very helpful as well.

[Dildozer]

LOL Escortbiz.

I wonder how they could do the same with dialer users then.

[EscortBiz]

there is a company called iverify that had a plan on something like that recording online users voice a while back but I dont know what happened

[Dildozer]

don't they have some kind of way to identify the computer it comes from?

[dialerking.com]

Sorry to disappoint you soul rebel, we DIDN'T lose our 1900 routes. We decided that 1900 had too many charge backs even if we charged the surfer $3.99 1.99 or even 20 cents. It is to easy for someone to ring up a telephone company and deny they made a call and get their money back. This was our decision.
3 dialer networks went broke from this already and we didn?t want to be number 4!

So we are alive and well, we just have a new USA route... that?s all.

This is the email we posted to all webmasters:

7/28/2002


Dear webmasters,

We have made some very big changes to our dialer payout structure so please read carefully.

You must update your dialer immediately. To version 8.00

Here are the reasons why:



1) We have increased our payout for Au and Uk effective immediately.

2) Please check your rates in your stats area

3) The Usa rate has changed. And we are now paying a whopping $35 per credit card signup, (when a surfer is using dsl/cable.)

And to make it even better, we offer a free trial join up with a credit card. Plus when a surfer exits the credit card join page, we will popup more windows with your code in them. So you have even more chances of getting a signup.



We are no longer using 1900 for the USA. This was our decision by choice, since the charge backs with 1900 for EVERY dialer company is ridiculous. Any dialer company that is still paying for Usa by the min or per call, (using 1900) WILL go broke. It is impossible to sustain paying webmasters and making nothing in return. We should know as we are the largest dialer network in the world. Already the industry has seen at least 3 dialer networks go broke simply for this reason.



We at the live shows network pride ourselves on paying webmasters on time every time. The last thing we want to be is another statistic. We are now using an international route for the USA and therefore the payment has changed. Please check your stats area.





You should update your dialer straight away, so you will get paid.

For the Usa Minutes generated from july 15th upto July 28th for the old Usa rate of .75 will be honoured and payed on the 1st of Aug.



Thankyou,

Live shows network

[Hustlin Entertainment]

Smart move on behalf of dialerking.

[Dildozer]

Another question for you dialer pros
why is the UK rate so high?

[Brujah]

Whats wrong with dialers ?

As long as its not deceptive and AUTOMATICALLY dials up, I don't see the problem with it.

(Yes, I use one. I use NoCreditCard.)

[FrankyW]

Everything is wrong with dialers. You can have all the disclaimers and warnings you can fit on the screen, it's still freaking deceptive.

No individual in their right mind would/should spend more then $40/month on porn, to access premier sites like BangBus for example. Instead, they pay $40 per pop AT LEAST to access some crappy content out of Africa through their 56k modem!

C'mon... Dialers will burn in hell soon enough!

[Tipsy]

Originally posted by FrankyW
Everything is wrong with dialers. You can have all the disclaimers and warnings you can fit on the screen, it's still freaking deceptive.

No individual in their right mind would/should spend more then $40/month on porn, to access premier sites like BangBus for example. Instead, they pay $40 per pop AT LEAST to access some crappy content out of Africa through their 56k modem!

Fuck you're an idiot. How can it be deceptive IF the surfers knows exactly what the call is costing him? I'm not talking about all the bullshit that goes on with diallers with autodownloading and all that crap - I'm talking about a guy knowing exactly what it will cost and still using it.

You may not like diallers but the statement you made just shows your stupidity.

There can be many reason two of which are simple.

1st is that a guy simply doesn't have a CC ( and there's a shit load of them out there) so he can access live shows etc this way. Ok the cost is stupidly high but it's his choice.

2nd is the best use for a dialler imo which is to give a qucik preview of a pay site before whipping a card out. Of course this is only really applies when no trials are on offer but even with a trial can be a way to make a punter happy that he's not gonna be ripped off once he's given the CC details out.

The only time I use a dialer these days is for Jap traffic and 404 on my own server which is purely people trying to get where they shouldn't by typing in URL's. No time or sympathy for either of them.

[[Labret]]

No site is worth 400.00 an hour.

none.

Nobody will ever be able to argue that point.

People are stupid, people will use dialers. Not too mention that utter and complete lack of age verification.

Its bad all the way around.

Watching them crumble over the last year only further proves they are shit.

Dialers are as bad as kp and spam.

[Tipsy]

Many things in life aren't worth anywhere near the money people are willing to pay. I haven't the time and/or patience to babysit fools and if they wanna pay xxx over the odds for something and make me money then I will rarely have much sympathy.*shrug*

Again, I'm not talking about deceptive advertising and auto-donwloading/installing stuff.

But WTF. It's the type of argument that goes round in circles 'cause it's a subject people are usually far to opinionated about to discuss properly. I'm out of it.

[FrankyW]

Tipsy,
Nobody said that the alternative method for charging is a bad thing. If the guy doesn't have a credit card why not charge a one time free for the whole's month access?

I'm not sure there are ANY dialer sites out there that offer content semi-decent....

Deceptive? The surfer has no clue that it's going to be that amount of money for surfing porn! You think any guy out there is going to be counting minutes while watching porn, hungry to get some?

I wonder why AOL switched to per month, rather then per minute? Maybe because people just realized how addictive internet is, aside from the fact that PORN is addictive!

[FrankyW]

Oh, and if dialers are not deceptive, then why do people have to dial into countries out there that no one even considered existed in some cases.

Because no government or corporation would be able to take heat upon the charges these dialers are charging. The 900 numbers got abandoned, because people got abused with the charges on their telephone bill...

[SR]

Damn that dialerassking still can talk
I would have thought someone would have beaten him up already.
Mr rip-off nr1
We should start a site "how to chargeback money wasted on a dialer site"

[[Labret]]

Even if they just charged 25 cents a minute, they would still get $15.00 an hour.

I would kill to charge $15.00 an hour for one of my sites.

If it werent shady business, the calls wouldnt be routed through some third world African country.

I would be happy to get 10 cents per minute for my paysite members section!

I bet my hold times would be WAAAAY longer than the average dialer call.

Nobody can sit there and argue seriously that dialers are a good deal. And there is no reason why they cant flat rate that shit like Web900.

[Brad Mitchell]

Where were all you people when I was arguing with dialer companies on here? lmao

Brad

[Libertine]

I personally think the dialer-bashing is partly nonsense. Many people are paying huge rates for phone sex, and they do that completely voluntarily. They dial up the number themselves, and choose to pay that much money.

Now, some people don't have creditcards, don't want to give out their personal details to porn-related companies or are afraid of fraud with their creditcards.
Shouldn't they have the option of paying in a different way than with a cc as well?
On my Dutch sites I use dialers, which very clearly state the price ($1/min) before people click on the "download & dial" button. These dialers are not autoloading, ofcourse.
Now what exactly is wrong with that? These people make the choice to pay that much, and many even return many times (most often for 10-30 minutes per "session").

Ofcourse, autoloading dialers are a completely different matter. People I find using them usually make it to all my blacklists in about 10 seconds. Using autoloading dialers is like mugging your visitors - they don't have any choice in the matter and are forced to give their money.

[Brujah]

so umm.. can I have your foreign traffic ?

[gothweb]

Originally posted by punkworld
I personally think the dialer-bashing is partly nonsense. Many people are paying huge rates for phone sex, and they do that completely voluntarily. They dial up the number themselves, and choose to pay that much money.

Now, some people don't have creditcards, don't want to give out their personal details to porn-related companies or are afraid of fraud with their creditcards.
Shouldn't they have the option of paying in a different way than with a cc as well?
On my Dutch sites I use dialers, which very clearly state the price ($1/min) before people click on the "download & dial" button. These dialers are not autoloading, ofcourse.
Now what exactly is wrong with that? These people make the choice to pay that much, and many even return many times (most often for 10-30 minutes per "session").

Ofcourse, autoloading dialers are a completely different matter. People I find using them usually make it to all my blacklists in about 10 seconds. Using autoloading dialers is like mugging your visitors - they don't have any choice in the matter and are forced to give their money.

1. Websites are not phone sex. There is someone on the other end of phone sex, being paid for their time. It is an interactive experience with another person. (Sure, not the person you think it is... but hey...) To charge by the minute for a static site is on crack.

2. If you don't have a CC, or don't want to use one, or whatever, then 1-900 is fine... but not a dialer. Just use a 1-900 program that takes a set fee for the month.

3. Pay by minute plays on the ignorance, stupidity, and short-sightedness of the customer. It isn't cool.

[hyper]

i think they should ban chargebacks

people know what they get into
and these companies dont care they just chargeback

fuck them .. everyone switch to cash.. send me cash and i let you in

[SockPuppet - The Return]

From the dialerking dialer disclaimer:

"US - $8.99us/min premium domestic billing or $1.99us/min international"

WTF?

I guess if your lucky you pay 1.99/min otherwise, you get fucked in the ass with 8.99/min

What country are the calls going to? How do you (as a surfer) know if you are being charged 8.99 or 1.99?

I doubt that assplay king will answer any of these questions.

my .02

[FrankyW]

Notice how the argument for dialers revolve around the fact that people don't have a credit card to pay, but for some strange reason, US consumers are being jacked up by $8.99/minute.

I would think the chances of an average American having a credit card are much higher then in any other country, yet the charges are through the roof.

[Brad Mitchell]

Originally posted by SockPuppet - The Return
From the dialerking dialer disclaimer:

"US - $8.99us/min premium domestic billing or $1.99us/min international"

WTF?

I guess if your lucky you pay 1.99/min otherwise, you get fucked in the ass with 8.99/min

What country are the calls going to? How do you (as a surfer) know if you are being charged 8.99 or 1.99?

I doubt that assplay king will answer any of these questions.

my .02

Well that just about sums up the problem. LOL

[Dildozer]

I have to agree that a monthly flat rate charged on a 1900 number would make much more sense. However, if the chargebacks are the same % then it still is sucky.
And i still don't know why rates in the Uk are so much higher than anywhere else. Is it because UK people are more stupid (no offense), that they're used to having their calls billed by minute (even local calls) or they're pound is so much strong that they don't really see it as expensive?

[Theo]

if dialerking could charge $20/min they would have already done it.

[Lane]

dialers are dead... its just totally risky business.. i already lost $4k to varadox and im still mad, grr

[salem]

Originally posted by Dildozer
I have to agree that a monthly flat rate charged on a 1900 number would make much more sense. However, if the chargebacks are the same % then it still is sucky.
And i still don't know why rates in the Uk are so much higher than anywhere else. Is it because UK people are more stupid (no offense), that they're used to having their calls billed by minute (even local calls) or they're pound is so much strong that they don't really see it as expensive?

Assuming your talking about uk premium rate numbers (rather then international called from the UK) then the reason its so expensive is that premium rate numbers are VERY heavily regulated by the ICSTIS (dunno what it stands for but their website is http://www.icstis.org.uk ) an example of just how hard to deal with they are is that to get a live 1 to 1 service theres like a £15,000 bond. The rules surrounding diallers are bloody strict as well.

Personally I'm generally against them but I think like most people my perceptions of them are bad largely becuause I know if I'm gonna wank I'm not gonna hurry up because I'm on the clock.

Oh and by the way I've been lurking around this site for ages and just registered so this is my first post, Hi everybody!

[boneprone]

Jesus Dialer still pays 7.99 a minute.
Please spread the news on ALL other webmaster boards.

Thanks