There was NOTHING to get ... Your answers are at the level of a 6 years old child :2 cents:

All my lights that will allow the swirly little fluorescents have them. Except of course my nice hanging lights in my dining room and kitchen which take special bulbs, does that mean I think the earth is becoming some sort of super hot tropical environment, or we all will perish due to the cars we drive? lol no. I use them because my electric bill is cheaper, and the lights are MUCH cooler than a standard bulb.

Nothing will change with this type of mentality :2 cents:

yeah..your soaring intellect must have escaped me

i know you are about 10 more days from hitting my ignore file though

Boy do I need to make a flow chart or something for you to understand? Pollution was 10 times worse in the early 1900's till around the late 1980's Why OH WHY OH WHY! Did we not have rising temperatures then? OH LORD WHY?? Wait I believe we were going to have a new ice age back then due to the pollution blocking out the sun.. YARGG BAHHH BAHHH BAHHH! I already know how easy it is to lead people down the prim rose path. Dont know why I should think it would be any different on this particular issue. :1orglaugh

Lol because I dont buy into the global warming farce? Kind of silly thing to ignore me for. :error

I dont think you can find a US Gov. admission that the increase of beetle damage is due to warming, but the Canadian gov does:

"Why is British Columbia in the midst of a mountain pine beetle epidemic?

Forests of mature lodgepole pine are prime habitat for the mountain pine beetle. The beetle also thrives under warm weather conditions. The interior of British Columbia has an abundance of mature lodgepole pine, and has experienced several consecutive mild winters and drought-like summers. Beetle populations in many parts of interior B.C. have increased to epidemic levels as a result."

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfp/mountai...etle/faq.htm#2

not just that....your claims of 152 IQ or something silly was what really got me..lol

tack that onto your Bush supporting...NEO con type attitude and i doubt i would have anything left to say to you.

you seem to back anything that is controversial..but you are always on a certain side. you cling to loose change 2 like it is the bible of anti governement people..while it was merely made to ask questions....questyions people refuse to answer...but you with your 152 IQ you seem to know all.

lol...give me a fuckin break

no one here is buying into your shit

Come on we both know where you initially got the information from...

... as I said:

I LOVE pine beetles. They've caused such a problem here that my HOA allows us to cut down any and all pine trees. That means I get a great view I normally wouldn't be able to have due to the HOA rules on cutting down trees ;)

I didnt write that article for the Canadian Government. Neither did Al Gore. Neither did George Bush.

I saw the movie and looked into some of the research, yes. Whats the problem with that? I've always said that I dont listen to someone telling me what my opinion should be. I want to see WHY they have their opinion, and form my own.

I dont really think global warming is a "debate" any more. No biggy.

142 Ive tested from 138 to 145 on 4 tests. Took one in 6th grade, 1 in 9th grade, 1 in 10th grade, and 1 my senior year. High IQ really means nothing. Its just the capability your mind has to reason and hold knowledge etc.

Im running my own loose change experiment, and getting the exact results I assumed it would. You only need to plant a seed of doubt into someones mind, and they will follow lock stock and barrel.

LOL, nice bonus :) But you know it's because they know they'll burn like a torch. Not because Al Gore said it in a slideshow, hehe ;)

I see so you are saying pollution levels are worse now and thats why you think the climate is changing?

Tom, your last paragraph changed my views, and I'm sorry if I automatically generalized you as the type to preach. I based my argument on that erroneous fact.

Which dilutes my argument actually all together, as you and I are very much alike. I've changed almost all of my lightbulbs to the HE bulbs when I moved into my condo Jan last year. I got an auto temp for my AC that raises the temp it kicks on, when I'm not there, and lowers it by the time I get home.

I've already put in my ondemand hot water heater, one of the first things I did when I moved in. I installed ceiling fans in every room of my place, my electric bills are under 100 dollars every month. For 1500 sqft place, in Florida, during the summer, I'm pretty happy with it.

I've been watching climate change and what we can do about it not so much for myself, but for my children. This can be man made, it can be mother nature, the fact is, it is happening.

Better to be prepared.

sorry but that's just bs, do u have any stats to back this up? the global co2 emissions are still rising, the USA and Australia are the only two countries that didn't ratify Kyoto and the US still pollutes the world's air the most by far. but Asia is starting to catch up, great...

funny, i also watched the movie yesterday for the first time. i really like the way it is done. al gore doesn't just give his view, he backs it up with LOTS of scientific stats and facts. anyone who says global warming isn't happening is fucking ignorant. especially those glaciers on the poles melting at a very rapid and accelerated pace and the possibility of the gulf stream reverting is extremely alarming. no more fun in the US once that happens...

Pssst...

The new buzz term is "Climate Change".

Global warming was the scare tactics pre 2k.

Again, no one's saying it isn't happening. We're saying it's BEEN happening for millions and millions (probably billions) of years. There have been seashell fossils found hundreds of miles inland in the US. I doubt they were dropped there by some prehistoric tourist :thumbsup

Ask Al what killed the dinosaurs since he has millions of years of data.......oh wait, he doesn't.

What I don't understand is, how people can think that we can just do whatever we want, and there's going to be no consequences for our actions. Come on, for those of you that think like this you're in for a big shocker. We have all been abusing the earth for a very long time and at some point we will pay for it.

When we moved this same time last year, everything was covered with at least 3 feet of snow. Now...nothing. We've gotten a few flakes then it melts away cause its not cold enough.
Just took this now http://www.pinkyschoice.com/ov07.jpg
This is not a normal canadian winter:(

Right now, Vancouver is buried in Snow.

That's not normal for that part of Canada.

I do know, it's low 80's, high 70's here in Florida. Me and the Snowbirds are saying "Hiya"!

Thats cool, Anthony. $100/mo. in Fla. in summer? Holy crap. I spend that and I only get a couple of summer months per year, lol. I wanted to get a ceiling fan to move the air in my stairwell down or up as needed, but I can't really do the work since I rent. Plus I'd probably break my neck falling down a full flight of stairs,lol.

There are areas in the states that are having the coldest winters in years, more snow, ice, etc. 4 years ago we had the coldest winter in GA since records were started.

OMG, GLOBAL COOLING!! DON'T DRIVE ANY WHERE!

Damn PR_Tom, I wanted the pleasure of nailing his ass to the wall with this one

Us B.C.ians should have just clear cut most of our forests.. It would have actually been better for the enviroment.

Another thing is the "why wasn't pollution a problem when we were polluting so badly?" Well, ignorance.

If we were polluting today as we were before, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It be over.

What the problem is today is our government officials are just to eager to jump on voting bandwagons, ie porn, then pay attention to things that won't be popular, and aren't easy fixes. You just can't tell the weather to provide ecological documents to prove whether there is or isn't a problem.

The problem, the injustice, is the difference between not knowing, or choosing not to know.

People here have spent a lot of effort trying to make themselves feel better with the world today. A lot of "i'm smart, you're an idiot", yet i think anyone arguing the fact that there is a problem, and it needs to be solved, isn't insulting anyone.

Al Gore is an idiot, but compared to GWB? Also, in his "personal" sides of the movie, he offered a story about a family tragedy. Something about a family member dying.

Obviously not everyone missed the BLOODY MESSAGE behind this comment?

Why wait till people start dying before fixing the problem?

Lets say everything we say is correct, who is going to get nailed to the wall when shit hits the fan? Politically, it's going to be western/christian countries that's going to take the brunt of this.

If europe does get hit with an ice age, mother natures "cleaning house", how many billions of our allies are going to bite ice?

Hell, the terrorists just have to sit back and laugh while we take care of christianity for them.

R

OH it all makes sense now. So cutting back pollution from terribly drastic levels has now changed our climate by 1 degree. :uhoh So we right now have the least pollution we've had in the last 60 or 70 years, and yet ....... :error

See Al got lucky this go round, IIRC in 2003 he was in the upper north east making his little speech about global warming during a record breaking cold snap. :1orglaugh This time he got a warmer than average winter to preach during. :thumbsup

depends who hires the scientist.
According to ice cores and other data (and depending on who interprets them, how deep they go back et et), before "global warming" we were on a global cooling trend. In fact, we're not even up to where the earth's temperature was 10,000 yrs ago.

Why do you think we have the least pollution now? With technology today, we've reduced the impact our industries have made against the climate.. woopdedoo..

But the population of the planet has quadrupled in the last 100 years? Therefor increasing the amount of pollution produced, regardless of how efficient we now are?

Why are you trying to argue this point? You aren't arguing, or debating, you're disagreeing. You haven't offered anything to contradict the common sense of the situation.

Patronize me all you want, this is both mine, your, and our childrens problem.

R

I watched the movie a few nights ago. I use to think like most people that Global warming is a cycle and that we weren't causing it.

Where did I get my information from ? I never really thought about it, like a good sheep i just absurbed the shit I heard in the media and other people saying and I believed it myself.

I would say to ANYONE who thinks Global warming is bullshit, watch Gore's movie, the Inconvenient Truth. I don;t care what you think of him but look at the stats he gives and do your own research if you don't believe him to confirm what he is saying is true. Global warming is a cycle but I am finding out now we just went off the charts of the normal cycle so it is obvious we are doing something to fuck things up.


Then, come back here, after watching the movie and state your case on how Global warming is a myth. I would love to hear your proof/theories why what Gore is saying is wrong. I am open minded if someone makes a better, more believable arguement then gore it might change my mind. Until then, don't be like I was, do some research (and in particular at least watch his movie) before you start talking about something that you t hink you know as fact, when all along you just repeating shit you heard from the media and other people who have no clue.

WHY are people even debating about whether or not to try to reduce pollution levels????

Umm because you could actually SEE the pollution 30 to 50 years ago. SEE IT!. Now you show me pictures of visible pollution today. Lets see it. I already posted pictures of what it used to be like, show me where its anywhere near that bad today.


1954 show me a picture today that looks ANYWHERE near this bad.

http://www.gasp-pgh.org/pgh-img/smokypittsburgh1.jpg

mmm so you think global warming means, average temp this year 75, next year 76, next year 77, next year 78 in every location around the world ???

it doesn't work that way and you can't go by one location. World wide temp average from year to year is what you need to watch for. Have fun collecting all of that info and doing the math. It's total ignorance to say " but they had a cold winter, global warming is BS."

Will, the point is that Gore only has a fraction of the earth's existence to use as "research". In the grand scheme of things, even a million years is a tiny blip on the earth's previous lifespan and Gore doesn't have even a fraction of THAT many years of data.

It's like calling one person and asking them what kind of car they drive, then saying "Based on our research, everyone we have talked to drives this car". It's a true statement, but limited data.

to say you are uninformed and ignorant about this topic would be the understatement of the year - besides your childish way of trying to make people look silly that have serious concerns about the world we live in.

Ive watched it, now which portion did you think is convincing that its not a normal warming trend? This is similar to how they conduct polls. They word the questions in such a way to attain the final results they want.

And that right there is the biggest problem. I wouldn't suggest getting your "facts" from the newspaper or CNN on this one, it requires a little more indept research then that. :2 cents:

It is total bullshit that any change is being caused by us. If there really is a change developing, then the more likely cause would be a slight change in the earths rotation. He says the caps are breaking off in the antarctic, so how bout the other end of the earth? Is it also being reduced? How bout the thickness of the ice in the middle?

Why is this glacier increasing in size?

Franz Joseph Glacier (NZ)

1964
http://whatstaboo.com/1e2fa920.jpg

2000
http://www.whatstaboo.com/1e3fab20.jpg

Lots of facts left out of his little movie.

CO2 levels in the atmosphere are not like "conducting polls and how they word the question". It is like how much do you weight, you can say average, i am in shape, whatever but when you get on a scale you have a number no matter how you sugar coat it, if you are fat you are fat and a number will reflect that.

Off the top of my head. I guess the part where they show that the CO2 levels in the atmosphere just in the last 20 years or so have gone up to levels several times higher then at any point in history???

I also like all the white house docs where people try to cover up the issue. nice touch usually they don't do that when there isn't something they don't want to hide.

So you watch the movie, where do you disagree with him with his findings and scientific data ?

Ok so what was their sampling range for c02? How many years back were they able to accurately measure?

Ryan,

I tried to join you on the bandwagon and argue against it, but Tom took me aback with being honest and not being self forthright. Sorry Bro. :(

I find that even today, propaganda is still so powerful.

Anyone who has ever worked with numbers, knows that it can be skewed to show any result.

There is without a doubt, Climate Change happening. Are we part of it, absolutely, are we the main cause, I haven't seen data compelling enough to agree. I am of the camp that it is a natural occurrence.

Back in the 70's it was "Soil Erosion"
In the 80's it was "Ozone Layer"
In the 90's and today it's "Global Warming"

When do you think any of you will be able to see past the veil of fear that is being used to manipulate public opinion?

Again, Will - in "history"??!! How can someone even claim to know this? What exactly were the CO2 levels on earth 2 million years ago? 1 million? Even 200,000 years ago?

It's limited data. Period. You can't deny that. I'll again refer to the fact that we don't even know what killed the dinosaurs - huge things - bigger than humans. Many different varieties. All gone. How? Why? Perhaps the CO2 levels were a LOT worse then? We don't know because we have VERY limited data on the earth's history. :thumbsup

Yea that's what I was meaning by ice packs. The water comes from the melting snow.

Im not arguing against conserving our resources, and keeping the planet clean at all. I totally agree. Its just the doom and gloom as you pointed out there is a recurring cycle, and it gets tiresome lol.

Here read this page Was too much there to quote snippets.

http://community.livejournal.com/twc...os/528088.html

Glad to see someone watches the Discovery Channel.

Ok I will quote this snippet from that page.

I found a page with a bunch of NASA graphs too, but they trend upward *shrug*

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/

I also couldn't find a graph that had CO2 emissions trending down. And the only thing I'm pretty confident when reading about this stuff is that:

1. CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
2. Globally, CO2 emissions are increasing due to man's actions.
3. Greenhouse gasses trap heat.

What am I missing?

We are here, aren't we?

All the "It's cold here, we could really use some global warming." jokes are so overused, and were lame to begin with. I may be forced to light the next person who uses one of those on fire, for humor's sake.

lol it's very sad but true.. Money can buy anything and it buys a hell of a lot of ignorance. As a side note don't think that everyone in the Us is accepts the spoon fed BS like this. The problem is the people with a clue don't have a voice because the politicians and too busy stuffing their pockets from all the damn big business lobbyists.

Honestly sometimes I wish al qaeda or whom ever the buggy man is this week would just drop a nuke on DC. I think a lot of the world's problems would be solved and we could start over maybe with a govt not so corrupt govt in this country. That or round up all the damn lobbyists and leave them in the middle of the ocean on a island somewhere. Hopefully one that floods due to global warming.. :1orglaugh