According to Al Gore, we're all fucked anyway.

of course.

again... that has nothing to do with the reality on the ground...today. its today that is the issue. not "what might be" in 30 years or 100 years.

i am not for war or beating the war drums or anything like that. i was simply pointing out that the problem is real... its there. its been there. there has been massive efforts to engage them politically with them simply telling the world to fuck off.

either someone has to propose a better solution than "ignore them and maybe they will go away", or get them to engage in diplomacy and work towards a solution... or accept whatever happens as the result of innaction or failure to keep things on a better course. hating the USA or making disparaging remarks about the USA, pointing out no WMD's were found or whatever, does not address the reality in Iran and the threat they present.

i think that the general pattern of blaming the USA 100% for anything and everything is just a short sighted and easy answer and a distraction from the complicated truths that exist that have no easy answers.

great posts dollarmansteve

and Khadafi would still be a bad person ( now he is a good one ..).

Sad analysis but quite valid.

So maybe if this administration would open up to talk to Iran ( instead of the cowboy approach), maybe something could come out of it, like for the above examples. :2 cents:

Last I saw from that report they had other reasons but it was also a 'threat' to Iran, for whatever that is worth.

Well said Matt :thumbsup

thank you - its nice to know people notice (and that im not just talk to myself :helpme)

BEWARE of teh mad cows...

http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/d0ca2...lena_krava.jpg

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Blame Bush for eliminating the buffer between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and aiding in the creation of another radical Islamic nation in the Middle East.

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that's why they build these bad boys! http://www.csp.navy.mil/usshawaii/va72-1.jpg

Like in the World of warcraft

Sweet. I can't help thinking that it would be better in the long run to just outlaw belief in such ideologies against which we'll need to use these weapon systems anyway.

If only someone would have the balls to decree that anyone who believes in the jihad ideology can be shot on sight.

no one has EVER said Khadafi was a "good person" or a friend of any western country. he is a known terrorist and known supporter of terrorism who made significant strides after a couple decades of sanctions to reverse his policies, admit to what he did as well as other concesions. what was a better solution? overthrow him?

if Iran wanted to talk to ANYONE... they would be talking to the UN and every country that has tried to talk to them rather than telling them to fuck off.

Iran isn't a problem of the US or the Bush administration. The UN and most of the countries weren't condemning their behavior because the world cares about the relationship between two ignorant lunatics. There is a problem in Iran and short of condemning their behavior... no one wants to take action. Just like Rwanda. It was never called what it was (genocide) by the UN because it would have required them to take action. Meanwhile 2 million people died. How many more times does that shit have to repeat itself before the rest of the world starts taking a proactive stance in either bringing people to the table or shutting them down?

The funny thing about this discussion is this... your choices are;

1) bash the USA and ignore the history and facts
2) enjoy a world with an unstable, radical islamic state with Nuclear weapons
3) get in the game and do something about it either through diplomacy or any other means.

Everyone likes "1" because its easy, its fun and it draws attention away from a very difficult issue with no good solutions. its simply popular and the easy way out.

meanwhile... Iran is still on course. Threatening world war 3 and trying to get the bomb. But yeah... blame the US... because ONLY the US can get involved and bring them to the table and talk. No other country on the planet has that power i guess. I mean thats what everyone is basically saying right? The US is the problem, Iran... known supporters of terrorism, ran by radical fundamentalists and determined to wipe Isreal off the map.... can't possibly be accountable for their own behavior. Someone "makes them" do those things.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Bush Administration to have focused the war on terror on capturing/killing Bin Laden and destroying al Qaeda, which was mostly holed up in Afghanistan, instead of attacking Iraq, creating a new haven for al Qaeda, and turning the country into a new ally for Iran?

Had Bush done so, instead of piling lie, upon blunder, upon lie, then he would have had an easier time rallying U.S. and world public opinion on stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, which is a much greater threat than Saddam's non-existent/weak WMD program.

Bush has helped Iran take control of Iraq through surrogates, something they couldn't do as a result of the Iran-Iraq war, and he has made the region and the would less safe as a result.

Now that the President's party has lost control of the House and Senate, largely due to widespread dissatisfaction for their handling of issues in the Middle East, he will be hard pressed to build a consensus for attacking Iran.

Should the Democrats succeed in retaking the White House in 2008, while strengthing their thin hold on Congress, that would be the best hope for the U.S. to try a fresh approach with the Middle East and the world.

It might still end with us confronting Iran, but I believe it would have a better chance for success, with greater domestic and international support (especially if sufficient effort is made to resolve issues diplomatically), than creating some cooked up artificial trigger, which seems to be Bush's only option at this time.

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