Why do people that are entering 10 step programs . . .

[baddog]

Why do people that are entering 10 step programs feel the need to bring others into the mix?

Look, I am real happy for you, but if you think your addiction had any bearing or influence on my life, you are giving yourself way too much credit.

Anyone else feel the same way?

[mattz]

isnt it the 12 steps buddy

[After Shock Media]

cause i think it is one of the damn steps.

all bullshhit regardless though and just a way to sneak mandatory religion into courts.

[mattz]

I've been threw the 12 step program many of times and I never once dragged someone into the meetings or tried to push the ideas of the 12 steps onto any of my buddies

[mattz]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

cause i think it is one of the damn steps.

all bullshhit regardless though and just a way to sneak mandatory religion into courts.

the 12 step program as absolutely nothing to do with religion

[mattz]

oh and baddog...its the 12 step program not 10

[madawgz]

Originally Posted by mattz

the 12 step program as absolutely nothing to do with religion

you must give yourself over to a higher power, no?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by mattz

isnt it the 12 steps buddy

I think you are right . . . . maybe if they made it 10 steps they could avoid dragging me into it.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

cause i think it is one of the damn steps.

all bullshhit regardless though and just a way to sneak mandatory religion into courts.

what does court have to do with it?

[WiredGuy]

Maybe they get a referral fee for signing friends up.
WG

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by mattz

the 12 step program as absolutely nothing to do with religion

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol?that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Seems religion is in there to me.

Originally Posted by baddog

what does court have to do with it?

Know anyone that got sentanced for a DUI? Such programs are often required.

[sltr]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol?that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Seems religion is in there to me.


Know anyone that got sentanced for a DUI? Such programs are often required.

that's spirituality, not religion

[baddog]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol?that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Seems religion is in there to me.


Know anyone that got sentanced for a DUI? Such programs are often required.

yeah, I know, but I don't think the 12 step program was designed for courts

[sltr]

and any alcoholic/dopefiend just starting working the steps and is trying to bring others into the mix is not working the steps properly- period.
just tell them they will be back out on the street drinking soon if they keep it up and you will see them there.

oh and offer to buy them some liquor.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by sltr

that's spirituality, not religion

Split hairs as you like. Still boils down to you as a human are weak, find some invisable being in the sky, surrender everything to that being, let that being know it is in charge, ask that being to correct you, try to talk to that being, and of course recruit others.

[mikesouth]

I got an idea...why not stop laying it all off on God and take some fucking responsibility for your own life.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by baddog

yeah, I know, but I don't think the 12 step program was designed for courts

Was not saying it was designed for, just snuck in by the "powers that be".

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I got an idea...why not stop laying it all off on God and take some fucking responsibility for your own life.

Cause my three step program wont get public help.

1. Admit you have a drinking problem.
2. Quit drinking.
3. Apologize to those you hurt while drinking. *optional.

[sltr]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Split hairs as you like. Still boils down to you as a human are weak, find some invisable being in the sky, surrender everything to that being, let that being know it is in charge, ask that being to correct you, try to talk to that being, and of course recruit others.

finding spirituality in one's life is quite the opposite of weakness, although many people in life assume that and think they can exploit those who have spirituality in their lives and call them weak

[mikesouth]

Has it ever occured to any of these panty wastes that God hopefully has better things to do than manage ytheir fuck ups.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by mattz

the 12 step program as absolutely nothing to do with religion

is'nt that 12Clicks NEW program?

[mattz]

Originally Posted by madawgz

you must give yourself over to a higher power, no?

the higher power can be anything, doesn't have to be God, your higher power could be your computer for example, or the trees or sun or anything you want it to be

[mattz]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I got an idea...why not stop laying it all off on God and take some fucking responsibility for your own life.

the 12 steps have nothing to do with God you fucking moran

[mattz]

Originally Posted by JFK

is'nt that 12Clicks NEW program?

the 12clicks new program doesn't work for anyone, I highly erge anyone not to try it and stick with the traditional 12 step program

[mattz]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Has it ever occured to any of these panty wastes that God hopefully has better things to do than manage ytheir fuck ups.

once again, the 12 step program has NOTHING to do with God

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by baddog

Why do people that are entering 10 step programs feel the need to bring others into the mix?

Look, I am real happy for you, but if you think your addiction had any bearing or influence on my life, you are giving yourself way too much credit.

Anyone else feel the same way?

just don't drive drunk in my hood please

[baddog]

Originally Posted by mattz

the 12 steps have nothing to do with God you fucking moran

oh the irony

[mattz]

Originally Posted by baddog

oh the irony

haha sorry

[mattz]

Originally Posted by baddog

oh the irony

It's just that A LOT of people won't even try the "12 step program" because they think that it requires someone to become all religious because of the "higher power" and "god as we understood him"

Really though, the 12 steps have no relation to god what so ever, I don't believe in god but I have still done the 12 steps before.

A higher power doesn't mean God. For some people yes, God is their higher power, but if you know anything about the 12 steps, your higher power is anything you want it to be really.

For example, my higher power is nature, all the trees, sky, sun stuff like that.

From my expieriece, most people that attend the 12 step meetings, don't have God as their higher power

[mikesouth]

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

Sounds like you are asking "God" to manage your problems to me....

Be a fucking man, admit your problem and open your eyes to the fact that YOU are the only one who can change it and when you are ready to you will...laying it all off on God is cowardly, irresponsible and retarded. Grow up and accept responsibility for your own life and stop blaming your stupidity on God or asking her to fix it.

[sltr]

Originally Posted by mattz

It's just that A LOT of people won't even try the "12 step program" because they think that it requires someone to become all religious because of the "higher power" and "god as we understood him"

Really though, the 12 steps have no relation to god what so ever, I don't believe in god but I have still done the 12 steps before.

A higher power doesn't mean God. For some people yes, God is their higher power, but if you know anything about the 12 steps, your higher power is anything you want it to be really.

For example, my higher power is nature, all the trees, sky, sun stuff like that.

From my expieriece, most people that attend the 12 step meetings, don't have God as their higher power

that has been my experience as well, i believe *maybe* less than 10% of those attending meetings actually work the steps

[DaddyHalbucks]

The fact of the matter is that the 12 step program works.

[Peaches]

If it works for someone and gets them healthy, who really gives a shit how it's done?

I have a 12 step program to lose weight. I'm supposed to walk 12 steps down and 12 steps back up my mountain every day. Haven't started yet, but when I do, I'm going to harass Baddog about it ;)

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

Sounds like you are asking "God" to manage your problems to me....

Be a fucking man, admit your problem and open your eyes to the fact that YOU are the only one who can change it and when you are ready to you will...laying it all off on God is cowardly, irresponsible and retarded. Grow up and accept responsibility for your own life and stop blaming your stupidity on God or asking her to fix it.

interesting . . my take was to 'allow' g_d to fix things . . but I'm fucked up that way

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

stop blaming your stupidity on God or asking her to fix it.

And this is just one of the reasons I love Mike

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by baddog

Why do people that are entering 10 step programs feel the need to bring others into the mix?

Look, I am real happy for you, but if you think your addiction had any bearing or influence on my life, you are giving yourself way too much credit.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Did Donnie just call you too?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Peaches

If it works for someone and gets them healthy, who really gives a shit how it's done?

I have a 12 step program to lose weight. I'm supposed to walk 12 steps down and 12 steps back up my mountain every day. Haven't started yet, but when I do, I'm going to harass Baddog about it ;)

Just don't ICQ me apologizing for the weight gain and we will be fine.

[mikesouth]

Thanks peaches...I love You to

and for the record the 12 step programs have an identical success rate as the people who go cold turkey and decide to help themselves...imagine that.

Like I said if you want to fix it you will.

[sltr]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Thanks peaches...I love You to

and for the record the 12 step programs have an identical success rate as the people who go cold turkey and decide to help themselves...imagine that.

Like I said if you want to fix it you will.

there is absolutely no way to verify that comment

[baddog]

Originally Posted by sltr

there is absolutely no way to verify that comment

which makes it difficult to refute

[volante]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

The fact of the matter is that the 12 step program works.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

The fact of the matter is that the 12 step program works.

I wish it did though it has maybe a 5% success rate and barely equals the same results as quiting cold turkey with zero support. Then again if it was really about quiting or getting control over the addiction they would not have problems with the chemical methods that have a much higher success rate, yet they do. Go figure.

[sltr]

Originally Posted by baddog

which makes it difficult to refute

so your point is?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I wish it did though it has maybe a 5% success rate and barely equals the same results as quiting cold turkey with zero support. Then again if it was really about quiting or getting control over the addiction they would not have problems with the chemical methods that have a much higher success rate, yet they do. Go figure.

yo asm, can ya give me a call? -bmb

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by Wanton

yo asm, can ya give me a call? -bmb

Sure but it better not be one of the steps.

[Peaches]

I puke when I drink too much or take too much pain medication for my migraines so I'd suck at being an alcoholic or drug addict.

But now I'm on Lipitor and massive amounts of iron. If I get hooked on either of these, I am coming to GFY for help.
And ICQing Baddog ;)

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by volante

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

I think that proves my point actually

[Warren]

Major stock up on booze today, only dilema is which one to start on.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by volante

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

very interesting . . . thanks

[volante]

Originally Posted by mikesouth

I think that proves my point actually

I was just about to quote your post before you edited it and say "what the fuck did you just read?"