strange day today .. bought a Mini Van for the wife ... then changed mind ** - GoFuckYourself.com

MikeVega · 11-24-2006, 07:10 PM

The lease on my wife's Acura is coming up and she's been on a Mini Van kick for some reason ... so i go today to look at some SUV's and Mini Vans ... some how i end up Buying a Chrysler Town and Country Touring edition Fully loaded (leather/DVD/ Stow and Go / power lifts .. every option they have .. I bring my wife to look at it and she kinda wants the Honda Odyssey .... but she agrees that for the money the T&C will do just fine ..and i got a killer price. We give the down payment and go home.

2 hours later I say fuck it and run over to see the Honda .. The Van is really nice .. really nice soft leather ..wood trim .. a lot like a Lexus RX300 .. I like it (as much as a man can like a mini van ) But they want an arm and a leg for it and I'm just not willing to pay that for a car that will only be carting the kids local and the occasional trip to Vermont .. I tell the guy forget it ...

He shows me the Honda Pilot EXL .. AWD / all leather /9 inch wide screen DVD and the third row was easy for me to fit in .. the fucking thing was nice .. and i got it for $5 more then the Town and country .. so i took it and went back to tell the other guy I didn't want the mini van any more .. he was heart broken .. I felt bad

How much does a car salesmen make on a $35k car ??

I'm still looking for a nice sporty car for myself but I can live with driving the Honda a lot better then the Town and Country ..I may even get one of those 4 door Jeeps ..they are really cool .. i was checking it out when i was there ... always wanted a jeep ..

PS. After buying the mini van I felt so unmanly that I had to take the motorcycle out just to get my balls back ...

Juicy D. Links · 11-24-2006, 07:13 PM

MikeVega · 11-24-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

Pete's not allowed in any of my cars anymore .. it took me 3 days to get all the hair out of the Acura last time he was in town ...

northboy · 11-24-2006, 07:23 PM

how does it work? You signed a contract but were able to cancel it for the t&c?

tony286 · 11-24-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northboy

how does it work? You signed a contract but were able to cancel it for the t&c?

you usually have 3 days

danevans · 11-24-2006, 07:27 PM

Give that chrysler guy an all-site-access pass to mobbucks sites lol

BoyAlley · 11-24-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danevans

Give that chrysler guy an all-site-access pass to mobbucks sites lol

Monique Niccole · 11-24-2006, 07:31 PM

The idea of ever having to drive a minivan makes me itch. That said, I'm glad you got something you both can live with ;)

crocop · 11-24-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVega

The lease on my wife's Acura is coming up and she's been on a Mini Van kick for some reason ... so i go today to look at some SUV's and Mini Vans ... some how i end up Buying a Chrysler Town and Country Touring edition Fully loaded (leather/DVD/ Stow and Go / power lifts .. every option they have .. I bring my wife to look at it and she kinda wants the Honda Odyssey .... but she agrees that for the money the T&C will do just fine ..and i got a killer price. We give the down payment and go home.

2 hours later I say fuck it and run over to see the Honda .. The Van is really nice .. really nice soft leather ..wood trim .. a lot like a Lexus RX300 .. I like it (as much as a man can like a mini van ) But they want an arm and a leg for it and I'm just not willing to pay that for a car that will only be carting the kids local and the occasional trip to Vermont .. I tell the guy forget it ...

He shows me the Honda Pilot EXL .. AWD / all leather /9 inch wide screen DVD and the third row was easy for me to fit in .. the fucking thing was nice .. and i got it for $5 more then the Town and country .. so i took it and went back to tell the other guy I didn't want the mini van any more .. he was heart broken .. I felt bad

How much does a car salesmen make on a $35k car ??

I'm still looking for a nice sporty car for myself but I can live with driving the Honda a lot better then the Town and Country ..I may even get one of those 4 door Jeeps ..they are really cool .. i was checking it out when i was there ... always wanted a jeep ..

PS. After buying the mini van I felt so unmanly that I had to take the motorcycle out just to get my balls back ...

less than you would think, the min on the cheapest dodge or toyota is around 200 bucks + whatever the finance dept can stack on with extra options/ext warranty/etc etc.

seeric · 11-24-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

thats fucked up

d00t · 11-24-2006, 07:43 PM

you didn't lose your deposit?

MikeVega · 11-24-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northboy

how does it work? You signed a contract but were able to cancel it for the t&c?

I just left a deposit of $500 today .. it was going to the finance department Monday .. they'll just give me my check back

MikeVega · 11-24-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocop

less than you would think, the min on the cheapest dodge or toyota is around 200 bucks + whatever the finance dept can stack on with extra options/ext warranty/etc etc.

$200 - $300 .. man .. That sucks .. the way this guy looked I thought he last a $1k or $2k ... that's a tough gig .. he must have to sell a shit load of cars .. He was wearing a Rolex so I guess he does ok

jonesy · 11-24-2006, 09:40 PM

im just waiting .

just waiting.

ExtremeBank_Adam · 11-24-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

you usually have 3 days

At least in Florida, there is no 3-day law that you can bring a vehicle back. That is a myth that stems from purchases that occur in your home, like a vaccuum cleaner salesman. If you leave your home and go to the dealership and sign the contract, then you just bought the car. Unless of course the dealership has a return policy, like I believe Saturn does.

ExtremeBank_Adam · 11-24-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVega

How much does a car salesmen make on a $35k car ??

Depending on the car lot, a salesman will make somewhere in the 20-30% of the profit of the vehicle, minus any dealership costs or "packs" as they're called. A typical US car has around 10% profit margin, so if you're buying a $35,000 MSRP car, and you pay the MSRP, then there is about $3500 profit. The salesman will make 20-30% of that.

Pete-KT · 11-24-2006, 10:49 PM

thats GAY, you homo minivan driver

GAMEFINEST · 11-24-2006, 10:56 PM

loll, ull look like driving a minivan haw haw haw haw

GAMEFINEST · 11-24-2006, 10:59 PM

look nice loll

GTS Mark · 11-24-2006, 11:04 PM

The Honda Pilot is a nice truck, we almost bought one but at the time they were very new and Honda was not giving away any deals on them. So we ended up getting a great deal on a BMW X5 and never looked back

Enjoy the truck, and you made the right choice not getting a mini-van. My buddy at hockey tonite just bought one today and I was heckling him unmercifully tonite LOL!

DH

huey · 11-24-2006, 11:29 PM

I role like a playboy in my minivan. Like Chilli Palmer.

MikeVega · 11-25-2006, 07:30 PM

lol ..I picked up the Honda pilot for the wife today .. It's very Nice .. added the running boards and got the Navigation with voice command for everything .. it's touch screen or voice and controls the Nav / Heat/AC / Radio(CD /Satellite /FM/AM) .. pretty cool ..I didn't even get the DVD .. My son has a PSP / Nintendo DS and portable DVD player .. we don't need the DVD system .. they have enough toys and don't need TV in the car on a daily bases .. The Nav will be used more ...

Sticker was like $35K .. I don't even know what i got him down to .... I just kept busting balls and adding features till I had the monthly I wanted ..lol But the wife likes it and the kids do also ...now i just have to get something Fun for me

Ask Pete .. I have no idea where I'm going .. EVER ...lol

DatingGold · 11-25-2006, 08:20 PM

mini van wow

MikeVega · 11-25-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DatingGold

mini van wow

NO !! I escaped the Mini Van .. I got her the Honda Pilot ...

TexasDreams · 11-25-2006, 08:48 PM

I can think of a few industry kingpins who drive mini-vans.

lagwagon · 11-25-2006, 09:08 PM

I would never buy a mini van. SUV if I have kids.

rounders · 11-25-2006, 09:16 PM

good thing i wasnt your salesman! hahahah

Donny · 11-25-2006, 09:21 PM

Go to: http://www.edmunds.com

That will tell you the MSRP and the dealer invoice price. You can see how much profit is in any new vehicle at sticker price.

MikeVega · 11-25-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasDreams

I can think of a few industry kingpins who drive mini-vans.

I have to say that the interior of the Honda Odyssey was really nice .. soft leather with wood trim .. I kinda liked it if it wasn't in a mini van ...

Donny · 11-25-2006, 09:24 PM

Here ya go...

Choose which one you have, add the options you got, make sure the MSRP is the same as your window sticker, and you'll see if you got a good deal or not:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/honda/pilot/index.html

My guess is this one:

2007 Honda Pilot
EX-L 4dr SUV AWD w/Navigation (3.5L 6cyl 5A)
MSRP/Invoice
$35,445/$31,912

emthree · 11-25-2006, 09:27 PM

Sounds like being a cars salesman is a hard job.
I couldent deal with that.

MaddCaz · 11-25-2006, 09:29 PM

sounds impulse-y

MikeVega · 11-25-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

Here ya go...

Choose which one you have, add the options you got, make sure the MSRP is the same as your window sticker, and you'll see if you got a good deal or not:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/honda/pilot/index.html

My guess is this one:

2007 Honda Pilot
EX-L 4dr SUV AWD w/Navigation (3.5L 6cyl 5A)
MSRP/Invoice
$35,445/$31,912

that looks about right ... I got it Grey on Grey leather .. the only other option I added was the chrome running step .. it's like a $400 option but i got it for $205 .. I think i got a good deal on the car .. it has everything we need for family trips and the monthly is good .. that's all that matters to me ..

I'll be booking marking that site ... thanks Donny

MikeVega · 11-25-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaddCaz

sounds impulse-y

NO not really .. i posted a month or so back that she wanted a Mini Van and we looked around a bit .. the Pilot just felt better .. I didn't want the Mini Van and the Pilot had everything the wife wanted and still gave me an SUV .. I looked at other SUV's in the same price range but didn't like them and non of them had a usable third row like the pilot .. I'm happy with it

ExtremeBank_Adam · 11-25-2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

My guess is this one:

2007 Honda Pilot
EX-L 4dr SUV AWD w/Navigation (3.5L 6cyl 5A)
MSRP/Invoice
$35,445/$31,912

Pretty much dead on what I said... 10% profit, so the salesman would have made 20-30% of the $3500, if you paid full MSRP. You mentioned that you were shopping for a certain payment, and that's the easiest way to get a full sticker on a customer, or even more. NEVER shop for payment only, or the dealership can do plenty of things to increase their profit while still giving you the payment you want (switch to lease, extend loan to 6 or 7 years, etc.).

Dagwolf · 11-25-2006, 10:00 PM

I bought a used car once and didn't check it out carefully enough... It had some problems I didn't want to deal with so I returned it. Tipped the salesman $100 because I'd wasted his time.

MikeVega · 11-25-2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeBank_Adam

Pretty much dead on what I said... 10% profit, so the salesman would have made 20-30% of the $3500, if you paid full MSRP. You mentioned that you were shopping for a certain payment, and that's the easiest way to get a full sticker on a customer, or even more. NEVER shop for payment only, or the dealership can do plenty of things to increase their profit while still giving you the payment you want (switch to lease, extend loan to 6 or 7 years, etc.).

I alway start with working down the sticker ... then i add in the options i want for as little as possible ... I wanted to lease this car so as long as i got the miles and months i wanted along with the monthly i had in mind I'm OK .. I take my time with the salesman .. no rush and never let them know you need a car .. I like to go 3-4 months before my current lease ends so they no I'm not in a rush ... then if i like it .. i get them to pay off the old lease (sometimes we have to work it into the new lease but that's fine)

ExtremeBank_Adam · 11-25-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVega

I alway start with working down the sticker ... then i add in the options i want for as little as possible ... I wanted to lease this car so as long as i got the miles and months i wanted along with the monthly i had in mind I'm OK .. I take my time with the salesman .. no rush and never let them know you need a car .. I like to go 3-4 months before my current lease ends so they no I'm not in a rush ... then if i like it .. i get them to pay off the old lease (sometimes we have to work it into the new lease but that's fine)

The important thing is that YOU felt like you got a good deal. I've lost money on deals before, and I've made $10,000+ on deals, and as long as they thought everything was fair, then all was ok.

A good car salesperson will try and get you on one of four items... either price, payment, trade in value (assuming you're trading), or down payment. Once they know what you're looking for they can adjust the other three to make them money and make you "happy".

DaddyHalbucks · 11-25-2006, 11:09 PM

Honda makes great products.

Daruma · 11-25-2006, 11:12 PM

no G wagon?
love mine

thebossxxx · 11-26-2006, 12:45 AM

It's never a day at the park when you shop for a new car!...

Pete-KT · 11-26-2006, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVega

Ask Pete .. I have no idea where I'm going .. EVER ...lol

I was in NY forone day and knew my way around town better then you did

marko13 · 11-26-2006, 06:33 AM

at least you have fun....

BitAudioVideo · 11-26-2006, 07:55 AM

the salesman was probably more upset about meeting his quota for the month than any profit he lost on the sale.

its his own damn fault for selling chryslers

reynold · 11-26-2006, 09:36 AM

Lol I guess you did the right decision there.

Slick · 11-26-2006, 10:40 AM

I drove a mini-van for 6 years, I had the worrys of not feeling like a man and it actually wasn't too bad, it had a lot of room and it was very comfortable drive, you get used to it.

A year and a half ago, I did get rid of it and jumped on a nice new Ford Expedition though

MikeVega · 11-26-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daruma

no G wagon?
love mine

I love that car .. but I'm not spending that kind of money on a car that will only be used local by my wife to run to the store and school ... plus i wanted something that could seat 7-8 people if needed ... this was the only SUV in the $30K Range ($35k loaded) that I could fit in the 3rd row .. so if we do take a trip to Vermont or Lake George I can fit the entire family with ease .

11-24-2006, 07:10 PM	#1
MikeVega Porntrepreneur Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: New York Posts: 12,788	strange day today .. bought a Mini Van for the wife ... then changed mind The lease on my wife's Acura is coming up and she's been on a Mini Van kick for some reason ... so i go today to look at some SUV's and Mini Vans ... some how i end up Buying a Chrysler Town and Country Touring edition Fully loaded (leather/DVD/ Stow and Go / power lifts .. every option they have .. I bring my wife to look at it and she kinda wants the Honda Odyssey .... but she agrees that for the money the T&C will do just fine ..and i got a killer price. We give the down payment and go home. 2 hours later I say fuck it and run over to see the Honda .. The Van is really nice .. really nice soft leather ..wood trim .. a lot like a Lexus RX300 .. I like it (as much as a man can like a mini van ) But they want an arm and a leg for it and I'm just not willing to pay that for a car that will only be carting the kids local and the occasional trip to Vermont .. I tell the guy forget it ... He shows me the Honda Pilot EXL .. AWD / all leather /9 inch wide screen DVD and the third row was easy for me to fit in .. the fucking thing was nice .. and i got it for $5 more then the Town and country .. so i took it and went back to tell the other guy I didn't want the mini van any more .. he was heart broken .. I felt bad How much does a car salesmen make on a $35k car ?? I'm still looking for a nice sporty car for myself but I can live with driving the Honda a lot better then the Town and Country ..I may even get one of those 4 door Jeeps ..they are really cool .. i was checking it out when i was there ... always wanted a jeep .. PS. After buying the mini van I felt so unmanly that I had to take the motorcycle out just to get my balls back ... __________________ Mike Vega-ICQ:253868499-AIM:mikeydicevega**

11-24-2006, 07:27 PM	#6
danevans Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 1,295	Give that chrysler guy an all-site-access pass to mobbucks sites lol __________________ Custom adult games / apps for your paysites. webmaster at multimoodia.net icq35291012

11-24-2006, 09:40 PM	#14
jonesy Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,688	im just waiting . just waiting. __________________ . Shooting Bikini Girls

11-24-2006, 10:56 PM	#18
GAMEFINEST Make STACK$ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sexy time Posts: 14,436	loll, ull look like driving a minivan haw haw haw haw __________________ Compound interest.

11-24-2006, 10:59 PM	#19
GAMEFINEST Make STACK$ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sexy time Posts: 14,436	look nice loll __________________ Compound interest.

11-24-2006, 07:13 PM	#2
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992

11-24-2006, 07:23 PM	#4
northboy Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Frost Posts: 807	how does it work? You signed a contract but were able to cancel it for the t&c?

11-24-2006, 07:31 PM	#8
Monique Niccole Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 5,653	The idea of ever having to drive a minivan makes me itch. That said, I'm glad you got something you both can live with ;)

11-24-2006, 07:43 PM	#11
d00t Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In your mind Posts: 3,766	you didn't lose your deposit?

11-24-2006, 10:49 PM	#17
Pete-KT Workin With The Devil Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 51,532	thats GAY, you homo minivan driver

11-24-2006, 11:04 PM	#20
GTS Mark Vrume Mark Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 20,912	The Honda Pilot is a nice truck, we almost bought one but at the time they were very new and Honda was not giving away any deals on them. So we ended up getting a great deal on a BMW X5 and never looked back Enjoy the truck, and you made the right choice not getting a mini-van. My buddy at hockey tonite just bought one today and I was heckling him unmercifully tonite LOL! DH

11-24-2006, 11:29 PM	#21
huey Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: vancouver Posts: 3,784	I role like a playboy in my minivan. Like Chilli Palmer. __________________ opinions are like assholes................. "They aren't after me, they are AFTER YOU! Im just in their way" -D.J. Trump

11-25-2006, 07:30 PM	#22
MikeVega Porntrepreneur Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: New York Posts: 12,788	lol ..I picked up the Honda pilot for the wife today .. It's very Nice .. added the running boards and got the Navigation with voice command for everything .. it's touch screen or voice and controls the Nav / Heat/AC / Radio(CD /Satellite /FM/AM) .. pretty cool ..I didn't even get the DVD .. My son has a PSP / Nintendo DS and portable DVD player .. we don't need the DVD system .. they have enough toys and don't need TV in the car on a daily bases .. The Nav will be used more ... Sticker was like $35K .. I don't even know what i got him down to .... I just kept busting balls and adding features till I had the monthly I wanted ..lol But the wife likes it and the kids do also ...now i just have to get something Fun for me Ask Pete .. I have no idea where I'm going .. EVER ...lol __________________ Mike Vega-ICQ:253868499-AIM:mikeydicevega

11-25-2006, 08:20 PM	#23
DatingGold $6 PER EMAIL JOiN Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 13,185	mini van wow __________________ 9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions! ADULT DATING - $100 PPS LIVE CAMS - $214 PPS WWW.DATINGGOLD.COM ICQ: 27442303

11-25-2006, 08:48 PM	#25
TexasDreams former Miserable Admin :) Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Somewhere in Cali Posts: 4,700	I can think of a few industry kingpins who drive mini-vans. __________________ ICQ: 168-914-369 >>> sysop [at] TexasDreams [dot] com

11-25-2006, 09:08 PM	#26
lagwagon Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: az Posts: 8,464	I would never buy a mini van. SUV if I have kids. __________________ FTVGirls - FTVMilfs - DanielleFTV

11-25-2006, 09:16 PM	#27
rounders Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: p0rn0stars & h0es Posts: 2,931	good thing i wasnt your salesman! hahahah __________________ ICQ#: 153923840

11-25-2006, 09:21 PM	#28
Donny As you wish... Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 13,754	Go to: http://www.edmunds.com That will tell you the MSRP and the dealer invoice price. You can see how much profit is in any new vehicle at sticker price.

11-25-2006, 09:24 PM	#30
Donny As you wish... Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 13,754	Here ya go... Choose which one you have, add the options you got, make sure the MSRP is the same as your window sticker, and you'll see if you got a good deal or not: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/honda/pilot/index.html My guess is this one: 2007 Honda Pilot EX-L 4dr SUV AWD w/Navigation (3.5L 6cyl 5A) MSRP/Invoice $35,445/$31,912 Last edited by Donny; 11-25-2006 at 09:25 PM..

11-25-2006, 09:27 PM	#31
emthree Dialer Kingpin Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York Posts: 10,816	Sounds like being a cars salesman is a hard job. I couldent deal with that. __________________ • Sell Patches & Pills •

11-25-2006, 09:29 PM	#32
MaddCaz Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,483	sounds impulse-y __________________ BigCocks.com - MatureWomen.com - Tranny.com - DrunkGirls.com - TeenGirls.com - MonsterCock.com and many more... Click here to see them all!

11-25-2006, 10:00 PM	#36
Dagwolf President of Canada Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leaving Hell, Entering Limbo Posts: 23,141	I bought a used car once and didn't check it out carefully enough... It had some problems I didn't want to deal with so I returned it. Tipped the salesman $100 because I'd wasted his time. __________________ Sleep well, and dream of large women.

11-25-2006, 11:09 PM	#39
DaddyHalbucks A freakin' legend! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada USA Posts: 18,975	Honda makes great products. __________________ Boner Money

11-25-2006, 11:12 PM	#40
Daruma Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PandaLand™ Posts: 3,494	no G wagon? love mine __________________ RIP TD

11-26-2006, 12:45 AM	#41
thebossxxx Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,209	It's never a day at the park when you shop for a new car!... __________________ www.IncredibleDollars.com $50 PPS w/Trials 60% *Rev Share 60% w/no Pre checked cross sales! & and If pre checks are crossed you get $50 bucks! www.IncredibePass.com www.TitsandAssPass.com 100% Exclusive content guarenteed! Glenn at Incredible dollars dot com Our Best Converting sites: BTCA, Hot60Plus HairyNaturalGirls Sororitysistas, Sweetyurizan, Bbwdepot Blackbootyinvasion AriaValentino BigBoobsfatBooty UnivesrityBubbleButts Momsacheater Arabstreethookers whitecicksinblackchicks AsianchicksAmericanDicks

11-26-2006, 06:33 AM	#43
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11-26-2006, 07:55 AM	#44
BitAudioVideo Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: USA, Georgia Posts: 1,246	the salesman was probably more upset about meeting his quota for the month than any profit he lost on the sale. its his own damn fault for selling chryslers __________________ Hi-Quality Encoding - Bulk Orders - On Time! http://bitaudiovideo.com icq 50476697 - aim n3r0xXx

11-26-2006, 09:36 AM	#45
reynold Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Global Traveler Posts: 51,271	Lol I guess you did the right decision there.

11-26-2006, 10:40 AM	#46
Slick Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houghton, MI Posts: 7,338	I drove a mini-van for 6 years, I had the worrys of not feeling like a man and it actually wasn't too bad, it had a lot of room and it was very comfortable drive, you get used to it. A year and a half ago, I did get rid of it and jumped on a nice new Ford Expedition though