How many affiliates one day will become site owners?

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  • Paul Markham
    Too old to care
    • Jun 2001
    • 52942
    #1

    How many affiliates one day will become site owners?

    For those who can crack it running a paysite is very profitable and the two main components are content and traffic. Design, programing and billing are important but fairly easy, compared to traffic and content, to put into place.

    So how many of todays affiliates are likely to open paysites?

    I know of many who already are and a lot of paysite owners are also affiliates.

    Discuss.



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    • OG LennyT
      Wall Street Pimp
      • Jun 2003
      • 14345
      #2
      I know a few affiliates that stepped up to the 'major leagues'.... I guess it's just natural progression, as you learn more, get better, etc.......
      Tradeking - my online broker | 4.95 a trade | make real $$

        Comment

        • $5 submissions
          I help you SUCCEED
          • Nov 2003
          • 32195
          #3
          I used to think that was the natural progression but being a good affiliate and a good program owner are two completely different things. Each job has a different management level. Also, owning a program involves being: content manager, promotions manager, webmaster support manager, fraud detective, and server security guard. Sure, many of these tasks can be outsourced but being a program owner definitely means a major STEP UP in terms of effort and vigilance. Not all affiliates have the time or inclination to put in that effort when they are already doing quite well by being affiliates.

          Just my 2 cents on this matter

            Comment

            • SomeCreep
              :glugglug
              • Mar 2003
              • 26118
              #4
              Originally posted by $5 submissions
              I used to think that was the natural progression but being a good affiliate and a good program owner are two completely different things. Each job has a different management level. Also, owning a program involves being: content manager, promotions manager, webmaster support manager, fraud detective, and server security guard. Sure, many of these tasks can be outsourced but being a program owner definitely means a major STEP UP in terms of effort and vigilance. Not all affiliates have the time or inclination to put in that effort when they are already doing quite well by being affiliates.

              Just my 2 cents on this matter
              Good post. I agree.

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                Comment

                • OG LennyT
                  Wall Street Pimp
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 14345
                  #5
                  Originally posted by $5 submissions
                  I used to think that was the natural progression but being a good affiliate and a good program owner are two completely different things.

                  Not all affiliates have the time or inclination to put in that effort when they are already doing quite well by being affiliates.
                  so you're saying what? People with the right skill sets become program owners, and that doesn't necessarily mean they were a good affiliate?

                  I can dig it
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                    Comment

                    • fallenmuffin
                      Confirmed User
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 8170
                      #6
                      Probably quite a few. I'm working on some things myself.. it's a slow process because at the moment I'm just not ready. not that I lack the skills or ability but it just wouldn't be wise to launch one at this time. I plan to convert my current tgp/portal network into paysites (well some of them).

                      CCBill + Doing the design my self, coding myself + a few 1k in content anyone could launch a small paysite in a few months.

                        Comment

                        • $5 submissions
                          I help you SUCCEED
                          • Nov 2003
                          • 32195
                          #7
                          Originally posted by OG LennyT
                          so you're saying what? People with the right skill sets become program owners, and that doesn't necessarily mean they were a good affiliate?

                          I can dig it
                          Actually, it can mean BOTH:

                          Case 1: Good affiliate / Good program manager: if you got the TGP, bot, p2p, SEO, (insert whatever traffic source here) traffic game down a bit and you want to ramp up, you must have optimized your promo materials as an affiliate to your traffic. (Read: Sculpting your Content around your Traffic). You then build on this traffic base to build a program. You focus on a particular traffic source (since your materials have been proven to convert it) then you branch out to other traffic sources.

                          Case 2: So So affiliate / Good program manager: you do okay by being an affiliate but you are a better manager. Like I mentioned earlier, being a program manager involves many skill sets so if your competency is spread out fairly evenly, this might be the route to go. Of course, there's many trials and errors...many bumps on the road. So make sure you have some cash reserves as you learn....... specially if you decide to go PPS too early.

                          There are other permutations but if that's the case, it probably makes more sense to stick with being an affiliate because you either make more money being an affiliate or need to ramp up in experience/specialize in a particular traffic source. After a bit, step up to the program owner level.

                          Just like the restaurant biz, programs open all the time but only a few make it really big. Many end up being sold.

                          Just my on this issue. If you'd like more info like this, please read my blog.

                            Comment

                            • Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life
                              (felis madjewicus)
                              • Jul 2006
                              • 20368
                              #8
                              i know a couple girls who would make KILLER solo girls. they're just normal chicks who flirted with the idea of mainstream modelling, and didn't really make it. i've mentioned nude modelling to both, and neither shot the idea down.

                              i couldn't see them taking anything i say serious at the moment, but with a little capital behind me and the ability to flash a little cash, i'm pretty positive they'd be a little more inclined to take my proposal seriously.

                              so with this in mind, i plan on building my blog network, and saving it's income to in the future fund my paysite venture. i don't particularly want to rely on my legitimate income to make this happen, but i might put a little into it. basically i'm just trying to set it up, so that if things do fail, i won't be trotting of to the bank to claim bankruptcy.

                              i think for alot of people, becoming a program owner is a natural progression. i'd like to spend abit of time getting to know the industry better before I make my move though. there's alot of areas to stick your fingers into in the adult industry (no pun intended) and i plan on venturing into as many of them as possible. i genuinely think that with some time and effort i can make this work for me. i think alot of people think they can rush in and make easy money, i'm looking at this as a business plan, and i intend on making it work for me...

                                Comment

                                • madawgz
                                  8.8.8.8
                                  • Mar 2006
                                  • 30509
                                  #9
                                  one day i will own my own affiliate program, built from the ground up, or bought...
                                  TAEMDLRMSKRJIXMRLSMRJ.

                                    Comment

                                    • gooddomains
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Jul 2003
                                      • 10127
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by ismokeblunts
                                      i know a couple girls who would make KILLER solo girls. they're just normal chicks who flirted with the idea of mainstream modelling, and didn't really make it. i've mentioned nude modelling to both, and neither shot the idea down.

                                      i couldn't see them taking anything i say serious at the moment, but with a little capital behind me and the ability to flash a little cash, i'm pretty positive they'd be a little more inclined to take my proposal seriously.

                                      so with this in mind, i plan on building my blog network, and saving it's income to in the future fund my paysite venture. i don't particularly want to rely on my legitimate income to make this happen, but i might put a little into it. basically i'm just trying to set it up, so that if things do fail, i won't be trotting of to the bank to claim bankruptcy.

                                      i think for alot of people, becoming a program owner is a natural progression. i'd like to spend abit of time getting to know the industry better before I make my move though. there's alot of areas to stick your fingers into in the adult industry (no pun intended) and i plan on venturing into as many of them as possible. i genuinely think that with some time and effort i can make this work for me. i think alot of people think they can rush in and make easy money, i'm looking at this as a business plan, and i intend on making it work for me...
                                      way to go

                                        Comment

                                        • Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life
                                          (felis madjewicus)
                                          • Jul 2006
                                          • 20368
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by gooddomains
                                          way to go
                                          i'm glad you're stoked.

                                            Comment

                                            • PussyTeenies
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Feb 2005
                                              • 6496
                                              #12
                                              its a good step if you're up to it
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                                                • The Ghost
                                                  IslandDollars.com
                                                  • Oct 2004
                                                  • 12188
                                                  #13
                                                  There's a big difference between being a paysite owner and being a successful paysite owner. There are many costs involved that are unknown until you actually go about doing it, and the resolve necessary to follow through and take care of all responsibilities is not for everyone. Generally, unless all of your traffic is generated inhouse and converting at least the same or better as a good sponsor, having a site or program will not be worth it. I would speculate there are a few that have a difficult time running their program in the black.

                                                  But each program has a business plans in ways to monetize traffic. Some the most profitable programs send most of their affiliate traffic outwards to more profitable/better converting ventures. This is more an option for older programs.

                                                  But I can understand wanting to know the real answer to the question of what your traffic is really worth, and knowing what goes on at the sponsor end of the business.
                                                  Last edited by The Ghost; 11-06-2006, 12:57 AM.
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                                                    • Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life
                                                      (felis madjewicus)
                                                      • Jul 2006
                                                      • 20368
                                                      #14
                                                      There's a big difference between being a paysite owner and being a successful paysite owner. There are many costs involved that are unknown until you actually go about doing it, and the resolve necessary to follow through and take care of all responsibilities is not for everyone.
                                                      its this that keeps me from diving straight into the program operation end of things. realistically i probably have the money to go ahead and try to start off in this area, but at the same time, i can almost guarentee it would be a failure. i plan on putting my time in on the affiliate end of things right now. i'd like to spend some time getting a better grasp on the industry before i put a good chunk of cash into something that could be as hit or miss as this.

                                                      i think being the program owner is the dream of alot of affiliates. whether or not they make it happen, well i guess thats to be found out.

                                                      any program operators hanging around who had their humbler beginnings in the affiliate end of things?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • The Ghost
                                                          IslandDollars.com
                                                          • Oct 2004
                                                          • 12188
                                                          #15
                                                          Also, I'm not trying to put anyone off from becoming a sponsor. There is always room for new innovative programs and fresh content. But make sure you're ready and plan out exactly what you want to accomplish. It is a big responsibility, and too many companies come out the gates half assed.
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                                                            • StickyGreen
                                                              .
                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                              • 13076
                                                              #16
                                                              nice thread, keep it goin...
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                                                                • scottybuzz
                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                  • May 2006
                                                                  • 14799
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by madawgz
                                                                  one day i will own my own affiliate program, built from the ground up, or bought...
                                                                  you will gain ureself one extra killer affiliate
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                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                      • 52942
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by $5 submissions
                                                                      I used to think that was the natural progression but being a good affiliate and a good program owner are two completely different things. Each job has a different management level. Also, owning a program involves being: content manager, promotions manager, webmaster support manager, fraud detective, and server security guard. Sure, many of these tasks can be outsourced but being a program owner definitely means a major STEP UP in terms of effort and vigilance. Not all affiliates have the time or inclination to put in that effort when they are already doing quite well by being affiliates.

                                                                      Just my 2 cents on this matter
                                                                      I was talking about a site owner not a program owner.

                                                                      Somewhere to send their own traffic, if it signs good, if it does not let it move on. Maybe to the sponsors they are dealing with today.



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                                                                        • RSS
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • May 2006
                                                                          • 533
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Very interesting thread. A lot of usefull information


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                                                                            • footmonkey
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Nov 2005
                                                                              • 639
                                                                              #20
                                                                              If an affiliate has awesome ratios and is making a killing with PPS why change a winning formula?

                                                                              Investing money into a paysite could be risky. The more you put in the more you could lose.

                                                                              I used to run (not own) a program and am currently an affiliate but would definitely like to get back into running a program when I have enough spare cash.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • darksoul
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Apr 2002
                                                                                  • 4997
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by footmonkey
                                                                                  If an affiliate has awesome ratios and is making a killing with PPS why change a winning formula?

                                                                                  Investing money into a paysite could be risky. The more you put in the more you could lose.

                                                                                  I used to run (not own) a program and am currently an affiliate but would definitely like to get back into running a program when I have enough spare cash.
                                                                                  Can you get more contradictory than that.
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                                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                      • 52942
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by footmonkey
                                                                                      If an affiliate has awesome ratios and is making a killing with PPS why change a winning formula?
                                                                                      To make more money?

                                                                                      Just a guess.

                                                                                      And yes it's a risk.



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                                                                                        • jerseygto
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Aug 2006
                                                                                          • 341
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by $5 submissions
                                                                                          I used to think that was the natural progression but being a good affiliate and a good program owner are two completely different things. Each job has a different management level. Also, owning a program involves being: content manager, promotions manager, webmaster support manager, fraud detective, and server security guard. Sure, many of these tasks can be outsourced but being a program owner definitely means a major STEP UP in terms of effort and vigilance. Not all affiliates have the time or inclination to put in that effort when they are already doing quite well by being affiliates.

                                                                                          Just my 2 cents on this matter
                                                                                          I been thinkin about this my self should i stay an affilliate or step up i see all your points an i gotta learn alotttttt more but if it aint broke dont fix it so ill still learn as much as i can but i like where im at now
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                                                                                            • Platinum Dave
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Mar 2001
                                                                                              • 2441
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              You can't do both successfully you have to drop one to focus on the other.

                                                                                              If your concentrating on traffic, you can't run an affiliate program also, not enough time to do both. One has to go.


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                                                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                  • 52942
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Platinum Dave
                                                                                                  You can't do both successfully you have to drop one to focus on the other.

                                                                                                  If your concentrating on traffic, you can't run an affiliate program also, not enough time to do both. One has to go.
                                                                                                  Why do you need an affiliate program to start with?

                                                                                                  I would think the three things needed were, traffic, content and knowledge. You drive your own traffic to your own site, you don't need others.

                                                                                                  Yes some money and planning would also help. Maybe plan from day one to eventually end up as a site owner building traffic in a niche that you can work in well.



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                                                                                                    • OG LennyT
                                                                                                      Wall Street Pimp
                                                                                                      • Jun 2003
                                                                                                      • 14345
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                      To make more money?

                                                                                                      Just a guess.

                                                                                                      And yes it's a risk.
                                                                                                      Anything worth having requires a bit of risk, not telling you anything you dont already know Paul.
                                                                                                      Tradeking - my online broker | 4.95 a trade | make real $$

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                                                                                                        • jayeff
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • May 2001
                                                                                                          • 2944
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by Platinum Dave
                                                                                                          You can't do both successfully you have to drop one to focus on the other.

                                                                                                          If your concentrating on traffic, you can't run an affiliate program also, not enough time to do both. One has to go.
                                                                                                          Only if you have trouble delegating and/or hiring the right people.

                                                                                                          Running an affiliate program has obvious appeal. This is a cheap-assed business, so if you have decent quality traffic it is far better to market to it yourself than simply sell it. Unfortunately becoming an affiliate opens its own can of worms and I think what aggravates me most about being an affiliate is how many people I'm supposed to take seriously (or at least should be able to take seriously) that in other circumstances I wouldn't hire to make the tea.

                                                                                                          Opening your own site doesn't have to mean trying to run a huge business, but it is still going to force several roles on you and leave you with less freedom than the average affiliate as to how you spend your time. Also and although it will vary from site to site, you may have to start handing off work at a relatively low income level. That isn't something everyone wants to do or is necessarily good at dealing with.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • Bossman
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Jun 2006
                                                                                                              • 1263
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              I know whales who would never open an affiliate/paysite program, because they do something that works.

                                                                                                              Traffic will always be worth something to someone - paysites, content etc. will not
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                                                                                                                • marko13
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Apr 2004
                                                                                                                  • 7512
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  i think that affiliates that have skills will become program owner... but everyone have to research and find out what is better.... being an afiliate and automate your work... or having problems with a lot of affiliates... and i can say that successfull program owner is that guy/girl that was good affiliate...
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                                                                                                                    • $5 submissions
                                                                                                                      I help you SUCCEED
                                                                                                                      • Nov 2003
                                                                                                                      • 32195
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Bossman
                                                                                                                      I know whales who would never open an affiliate/paysite program, because they do something that works.

                                                                                                                      Traffic will always be worth something to someone - paysites, content etc. will not
                                                                                                                      Good point. For many, the most economically efficient approach is to focus on their core competency and branch out later into other traffic methods. There's an old African saying I read somewhere "If you can walk, you can dance. If you can talk, you can sing." I guess the Webmaster version of that is..... if you can build a link, you can generate traffic

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • RealityWife
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Jun 2004
                                                                                                                          • 358
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Bossman
                                                                                                                          Traffic will always be worth something to someone - paysites, content etc. will not
                                                                                                                          I have to disagree. Good Content is where it is at.
                                                                                                                          Last edited by RealityWife; 11-06-2006, 02:19 PM.
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                                                                                                                            • Tullian Zombie
                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                              • May 2006
                                                                                                                              • 302
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Heh. I'm kicking myself for not staying with photography! I took several photog. courses in college and was pretty good at it. I even won a few amateur photographer awards in Kansas City.

                                                                                                                              Because now that I promote For Women programs, I see that we don't have enough content.

                                                                                                                              If I would have stuck with it, I could shoot content for these programs and make a business out of it. Not an extraordinary lucrative one, but decent enough to justify doing it.



                                                                                                                              My photography was more artsy-fartsy anyway. Like B&W autospy tables (long story).


                                                                                                                              I admire you Paul.
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                                                                                                                                • Quotealex
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • Sep 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 6265
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  With all the BS many paysites are pulling on affiliates, they are kinda forcing affiliates to start their own paysites.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • BlackCrayon
                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2003
                                                                                                                                      • 19634
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      i'd say 10% will actually become profitable paysite owners in the future. i've thought about it myself, i think i have some great domain names for paysites and some fairly original ideas but i doubt i would ever go the affiliate program route. simply too much work and too many employees needed.
                                                                                                                                      you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

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                                                                                                                                        • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                          Too old to care
                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                          • 52942
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by jayeff
                                                                                                                                          Only if you have trouble delegating and/or hiring the right people.

                                                                                                                                          Running an affiliate program has obvious appeal. This is a cheap-assed business, so if you have decent quality traffic it is far better to market to it yourself than simply sell it. Unfortunately becoming an affiliate opens its own can of worms and I think what aggravates me most about being an affiliate is how many people I'm supposed to take seriously (or at least should be able to take seriously) that in other circumstances I wouldn't hire to make the tea.

                                                                                                                                          Opening your own site doesn't have to mean trying to run a huge business, but it is still going to force several roles on you and leave you with less freedom than the average affiliate as to how you spend your time. Also and although it will vary from site to site, you may have to start handing off work at a relatively low income level. That isn't something everyone wants to do or is necessarily good at dealing with.
                                                                                                                                          Great post as always.



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                                                                                                                                            • marketsmart
                                                                                                                                              HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER
                                                                                                                                              • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                              • 20419
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              im sure alot already have...

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                                                                                                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                  • 52942
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Bossman
                                                                                                                                                  I know whales who would never open an affiliate/paysite program, because they do something that works.

                                                                                                                                                  Traffic will always be worth something to someone - paysites, content etc. will not
                                                                                                                                                  So let me see if I have this right.

                                                                                                                                                  The whales have the most important thing (traffic) and sell it to the people with something of less value (paysites/content).

                                                                                                                                                  Great logic.

                                                                                                                                                  Bottom line is if all you have is traffic it's costing you money, until you sell it.

                                                                                                                                                  Who will pay more for it, the guy with a paysite or the guy without? And please do not come back with a clever answer, the buyer who can't monetise the traffic is never going to have the money to spend, the traffic that can't be turned into money is not worth buying.



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                                                                                                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                      • 52942
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      I am not talking about affiliates running affiliate programs. I asked about affiliates opening a paysite or paysites. Never asked about running programs.



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                                                                                                                                                        • tenderobject
                                                                                                                                                          Need Designs? 312352846
                                                                                                                                                          • Dec 2004
                                                                                                                                                          • 11688
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by $5 submissions
                                                                                                                                                          I used to think that was the natural progression but being a good affiliate and a good program owner are two completely different things. Each job has a different management level. Also, owning a program involves being: content manager, promotions manager, webmaster support manager, fraud detective, and server security guard. Sure, many of these tasks can be outsourced but being a program owner definitely means a major STEP UP in terms of effort and vigilance. Not all affiliates have the time or inclination to put in that effort when they are already doing quite well by being affiliates.

                                                                                                                                                          Just my 2 cents on this matter
                                                                                                                                                          nice gene!


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                                                                                                                                                            • Bossman
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Jun 2006
                                                                                                                                                              • 1263
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                              Who will pay more for it, the guy with a paysite or the guy without?
                                                                                                                                                              The company who needs traffic will pay the most for it - and that doesn&#180;t always mean a paysite. Is Google thinking about getting more traffic to sell or building paysites for their traffic?

                                                                                                                                                              Find something you are good at, and run with it... a paysite is not the holy grail in this business - there are companies and people making millions without owning paysites!
                                                                                                                                                              Live Sex

                                                                                                                                                              Buying membership sites
                                                                                                                                                              E-mail: support AT epcrew.com

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                                                                                                                                                                • Mr. E
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • Mar 2006
                                                                                                                                                                  • 453
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Well I am a photographer and affiliate and hope to have my own program up in 2007!

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                                                                                                                                                                    • triumph
                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                                                      • 3433
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Content is king, but traffic is gold!

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                                                                                                                                                                        • Busty
                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                          • Jan 2006
                                                                                                                                                                          • 802
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          I see site owners as long term thinkers, the more joins you get to you own site the more recurring members you have the more money you make. The PPS model made the affiliate used to the easy cash, but also cuts them out of the long term profit that is made running the site. Its a double edged sword, if you have large traffic you can make a ton of cash from PPS, if you have a great site you can make a ton of money with your member base.

                                                                                                                                                                          I enjoy running sites, I enjoy shooting content, so being a site owner was a natural thing for me. I have had to learn the traffic game, and I have huge respect for guys like Sleazy, The Hun, Shemp, Green Guy, and Worldsex because they can dictate the PPS market with the traffic they have built over the years.
                                                                                                                                                                          Busty Amateurs - the original girls and and tons more busty amateurs.

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