Let's keep this one up :)!

hmm tell us more... errrr actually tell me more lol

The problem is that most cookie overwriters don't use the browser to set a cookie, they physically alter the cookie file on the machine.

Well written spyware will also alter the referring URL and alter the links in the page. There is simply no way for the sponsor to know or do anything about it.

Poorly written spyware though will not do those things and may indeed overwrite the cookie, but my question about this is how do you suggest sponsors disallow the overwriting of cookies?

If affiliate A sends a user to the site and the user does not buy and then affiliate B sends the user to the site and the user buys, clearly affiliate B needs the credit. Theoretically yes you could not allow overwriting for say 30 minutes, but with surfers who are browsing galleries or search listings for example, it's quite likely that they will visit the same site more than once.

We would be more than happy to implement a suggestion that will not impact affiliates but would ensure that affiliate codes are not hijacked.

cookies are only part of the problem/solution:thumbsup

45 second - 2 minute perm cookies.. ( thats part of the solution anyways )

even if its only for a "test period" of a few days to isolate accounts that make no sales when they were making lots of sales before


Well written spyware can of course get around all methods mentioned here, but that sort of spyware is much more illegal..

but if the program owner bye the keyword...I don't think they will change any cookie settings
from Email Zango thread

:Oh crap

Smokey, it is also some manual donkey work for sponsors, looking at the ownership of the refering domains on signups... let's say you have a guy that makes 200 signups a month. Go and look at the 200 pages that refered sales... does he own them? Are they legal and valid? Is his code on the page or someone elses code?

Sponsors need to take the time to check their sales and make sure that people are doing business with them in a responsible manner.

Alex

A few good options in here. How about listing a few of the codes that the zango ware actually pushes people to?

http: //www. freepornlessons.com/zango.html?reviewsites
http: //www. freepornlessons.com/zango.html?psites


http: //cc. WebPower.com/Refer.cgi?acct=180SOLUTIONS&url=http://browse.ifriends.net/~wsapi/ifBrowse.dll?filter=n
http:// ClickCash. WebPower.com/SetPermanentSignupCookie.cgi?svc=IF&lang=ENGLISH&t ype=REVSHARE&mode=1&art=FRIENDS/FRIENDS1.GIF&acct=ZNETMARKETING


http: //www .sbrjmp.com/cam5/5.html
http: //www .sbrjmp.com/cam8/8.html

http: // ad. zanox.com/ppv/?3906012C1328766219

http: // www .mate1.com/rd/89/

http: // www. somethingsexyplanet.com/cart/category.cfm?cat=3&engine=metricsdirect&keyword=ad ult*toy
http: // www .somethingsexyplanet.com/cart/category.cfm?cat=3&engine=metricsdirect&keyword=se x*toy

http: // www .extagencapsules.com/a/MetricsDirect/

http: //tour. splash.sexsearch.com/indexxx.php?ref=14730&kwd=dothotmatchupdotcom
http: //tour. splash.sexsearch.com/indexxx.php?ref=14730&kwd=camsdotcom

http: // www. xmatch.com/search/p187034.subsexsearch.com&pg=1&show=f&age=18-40&override=1&ip=auto

http:// www. loveaccess.com/preview-online.htm?partner=121&keyword=KW38

http: // www .somethingsexyplanet.com/index.cfm?a=148&engine=metricsdirect&keyword=.xand ria.com

http: // www. xandria.com/default.asp?aid=180comp&keyword=.xandria.com

http: // www .membershipsecure.com/roi/roi.asp?SRC=180HeatNew&KW=sexsearchcom&id=33

http: // www .swapfinder.com/search/p164350.sub.sexsearchcom.com_Swapfinder.com%20New% 20Targets%208.11.06&pg=1&age=18-40&override=1&ip=auto

http: // hotmatch.com/go/page/gallery_landing_page&pg=1&ip=auto&pid=p280529.subs exsearch.com_Hotmatch.com

http: //www. hotdeals247.biz/promo_2.php3

http: //www. blowsearch.com/msearch/search.php?keyword=film

http:// www .atrafficseeker.com/Port25/traffic.php

http: // hotmatch.com/go/page/gallery_landing_page&pg=1&ip=auto&pid=p280529.subm yhotmatchups.com_Hotmatch.com

http: //www. textlovebox.com/landing3/index.html?campaign=metrics

http:/ / clicks .emarketmakers.com/redir.aspx?id=670820

http: // www .proflowers.com/freevase/index.cfm?prodset=OPCwol&REF=FGVPRTLS180Solutions8 00florals.com

http: // clicks. toteme.com/?s=20419&p=5&pp=1

http: // www. privatefeeds.com/_liveroom/?id=22&ups=1&pid=2

http: // www. lonelycheatingwives.com/ads/metrics-search-sexdating.html
http: //www. match-trust.com/tr/roi.asp?SRC=180&KW=.DatingSitesReviews.com&id=1
http:/ / www. matchranger.com/tr/roi.asp?SRC=180&KW=.DatingSitesReviews.com&id=1

http: // 157.22.38.173/180.html?q=webcam
http: // 157.22.38.173/zango.html?q=computers

http: // www .webcams.com/link.php?reseller=dnathan&type=1&rev=0&_u=/index.php?page=join

http: // www. adult-matchfirm.com/roi/roi.asp?SRC=180&KW=ifriends.com&id=2

http: // partner. ah-ha.com/Clickthroughs/redirect.aspx?cid=137449&sid=180solutions&lid=1424

http: // fantasyfinder.com/search.html?aff_id=68019&keywords=adult+porn
http: // fantasyfinder.com/search.html?aff_id=68019&&keyword=porn

i don't think that is the solution.

it penalizes traffic in making first one in the one who gets the gold.. and therefore encourages more deceptive tactics.

as i think you pointed out in later post, if you click 1 bangbros link with 1 aff ID, then later on clicked on another, the last aff ID *SHOULD* get the credit, because that is the one that closed/sealed the deal.

short term permanent cookies seems like a way to stop this fraud, i say it just opens up for creative folks to continue the fraud.. but penalize the legit affiliates sending traffic.



Fight the phraud!

we later established that something like a 2 min cookie or the like would be good, so last person gets credit unless its within 120 seconds.. so even on a tgp its going to take longer than 2 mins to get to a gallery click thru to a join page

and you wouldnt even need to do it all the time . maybe just a few hours randomly per week and analyze the ratio drops for fraudsters

My vote is in for this being GFY thread of the year... Thanks to all for your discussion and input.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but couldn't something like this happen then?

Affiliate A has a gallery on worldsex and sends surfer A to paysite A. The surfer didn't like the gallery and moved on. 20 minutes later, he finds a gallery for the paysite A on thehun(affiliate B), he signs-up. Affiliate A gets credit, even though the surfer signed-up from the gallery of affiliate B.

yes i was a little hasty in the 30 min cookie :) we later established something like 2 mins would be safer or even shorter , and doesnt nec need to be perm , ( read above )

That sounds like a brilliant solution, but it's not, all it would take is a small change on zango's part to make it 100% ineffective... (icq me, and I'll tell you, no need for the whole world to know how this 2 minute scheme can be easily defeated)

yup yup, just reading it :)

i get where your going with that and there are a few risks still its not 100% effective.. nor 100% ineffective :winkwink:

My methods of random changes in setting perm short cookies would easily isolate webmasters using these methods to promote sponsors :thumbsup

That would only be if the surfer not only clicked to the gallery A and looked at the pics / videos but in fact clicked through to the paysite (to set the cookie to start with) and then backed up from there.

30 minutes may be too long, but 1 second is way to short. If sponsors moved it to 2 minutes or 10 minutes say... they could easily see if there is a shift in signup patterns as a result... they could also check to see if people get to the join page with a different affiliate code than what is in the cookie and note that in an error log to review.

so to accomplish this, affiliate software makers will have to put out a patch, and then the peer-pressure movement of getting other programs to implement some kind of change by rounding up affiliates to only promote sponsors that do?

i 100% agree that this external shaving is a serious issue, but while some are alarmed, so many are not ...

Fight the apathy!

Solutions:

1) build your own site, sell to it

2) send only to sponsors that treat their webmasters well, that you know personally, and that won't try to slip you the bone when no one is looking <well unless you love the sausage then that's ok I guess>

:pimp

:thumbsup in a nutshell. :)

Bumping this for a list of programs like Zango.

smokey is scarry smart :2 cents:

Does this not assume the surfer can get to the site, go through the tour and sign up in 2 minutes?

I think with todays sceptical surfer 2 minutes would be a waste of time.

Look2Me
CoolWebSearch - deals in porn
exactadvertising - allows porn or used to
adult-links
direct revenue
WhenU
UPromise
ISTbar
surfsidekick
HuntBar
Ezula
safesearch
searchfast
searchforit
sitebar
tagasaurus
searchscout
Ilookup
about blank
browseraccelerator
mysearch
mywebsearch
exactsearch
websearch
p2p networking
fastfind

And hundreds of others, but that's a good start.

Just so you know, installing it on your computer and finding popups on sites is NOT testing. All it does is it tells you that a particular site/URL is targeted. In many cases, it will provide inaccurate/incomplete information and you (not necessarily you in particular, but "you" as a general term) shouldn't jump to conclusions right away.

Missie

Got to be honest and say that anyone who can send 20 joins a day to someone else's paysite should be thinking about sending it to their own.

From my perspective their should be very few "Whales" without their own paysites. Our biggest affiliates are all paysite owners.

As for the argument about affiliate A and affiliate B on the life of the original cookie, it never takes into account the fact that A will be first sometimes and B will be first sometimes, as will C D and E. This is about stopping Z stealing all their traffic.

I appreciate that, but it will let me know if I'm being targetted or other sites.

As I've said before, cookie tracking is so 1995. Why not use sessions or url tracking instead? Come on, lets think outside the box and away from crap that's outlived it's usefulness.

One more thing you should know Paul before you start doing this... many ppc have adware/spyware/malware in their affiliate networks that provide traffic for advertisers. Even if you do find a popup somewhere, it doesn't mean that the affiliate him/herself put it in the scumware application, it might very well come from a ppc campaign. The affiliate may not even know that his/her ad is showing via spyware. That's why I say it's important not to jump to conclusions too fast.

If you don't know how to interperet the data and find the real source, it's very easy to misinterpret what you find. I personally don't have the patience nor the technical knowledge to track all this stuff myself, that's why I rely heavily on affiliatefairplay for this.

Missie

I can see this needs to be done with care and appreciate the advice. Why do you not offer the service of checking sites/links and charge for it.

You need only report the facts as you find them to avoid legal proceedings.

heh, so many affiliate programs out there are so junky, designed with absolutely zero knowledge of the web.. or clues on cgi for that matter.

With our programs over the years, we never relied on a cookie for tracking, the sale was tracked after the first click, we then use cookies to help, only if no relationship could be identified, as a valued added bonus to affiliates.

If you're affiliate software doesnt support this type of system, which was developed oh back in 1999, then you are wasting your time with it.

Let's take Nat's for example, a system I recently was told about and discovered as I was writing some affiliate related software scripts.

They're system (although i never really looked at it to be 100% accurate with this post), I think its going to go down the drain very quickly. I can't see the way they can convert they're problems easily.

They have more than just cookie only tracking problems, they actually have a serious problem in which their tracking code can lead all their surfers to the wrong site!

Why on earth they use the affiliate account name and append to it, has to be one of the silliest designs I have seen to date. Sorry Nat's but you deserve even more than a slap on the face for that one.

Let's take a closer look, start browsing some blogs you know with nats sponsors that have multiple sites.... when you find one... click the link,
which will set a cookie on your computer, then go back to the page
and find another link to same sponsor program but another tour/niche/site whatever, now click that link and follow thru.. WHOA SHIT, the site you go to is the first site, you'll never EVER Be able to go thru the site you want because of their stupid cookie tracking redirection crap.

Now you wonder why you send 5000 hits to one site, 50 to the other and make 80% less sales??? They are not getting to the site they want

I posted your first suggested solution few days ago in one of Will's threads as well Smokey...but after discussing it, it only solves part of the problem. ie. it can only stop people bidding on the same site as the original link was for (while it seems many doing the bidding here are not using the same site).

For example, if company A has the highest bid on company B's terms, nothing company B can do code-wise will help their affiliates much (maybe having VERY thorough scripts/traffic reports could detect some of this though) :(

If company B is bidding on their own terms, then instead of messing with cookies and links and trying to detect it, they can simply NOT bid on their terms. However then they will get stuck in the situation above where their competitors will.

I think in the end it will come down to legal action being the only real way to stop soemthing like this. However since there are so many companies similar to Zango, it will take huge sites with the time and resources to pursue to accomplish this (if they'd win; remember, it's not illegal what is happening).

Private label solution I believe are one of the better ways to get through the problem....as the domain name itself can be linked in the database and ignore codes in the URL or cookies to truly credit the affiliate...but even there, once your private label site gets known, people will probably bid on its terms and steal traffic away from it as well :mad:

I would hope that most companies only use cookie-tracking as secondary to url tracking (ie. for return visitors who don't signup right away). Using cookies as primary is probably costing your affiliates 5-10% of sales already (not sure what current percent of people / browsers not accepting cookies is but I think it's aorund that at least) :2 cents:

bump for this difficult problem

true . it also would bring a new legal aspect to it thoguh

:thumbsup :thumbsup

Kellie offers this service, she does private consulting and that's something she can do for you or any other sponsor or any affiliate. She's highly reputable, very well known in the (anti) spyware world and affordable too. Or in your spyware hunt, if you find anything that you don't fully understand, contact her and ask her to interpret it for you. I don't know her rates so you would have to contact her directly about this.

Missie