Cogent is outta their mind!

[zubr]

They have null-routed all of my servers for that somebody sent a report, that there's CP on my host.

What they showed me was a nude chick, but, by no means that was CP. (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2256.html)

What can i do now, if anything, to persuade them that wasnt CP?

[Dawgy]

two words: "model id"

[pr0]

null-routed

never even heard of that

cogent rocks if they turn off servers for cp, good job cogent!

[mike503]

null-route means they setup their routers to announce your destination ip address as non-existent, in lament's terms.

[Fletch XXX]

I too am glad to hear someone shutting down cp chit.

[zubr]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
I too am glad to hear someone shutting down cp chit.

Firstly that wasnt CP, they just went and null-routed it, FUCK!

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by zubr


Firstly that wasnt CP, they just went and null-routed it, FUCK!

Secondly, I didnt really say anything was cp or not, just said I would glad if more people did it.

[clickpimp]

in Cogent's first year they had several IP blocks 'blacklisted' by large peering ISPs and carriers for all sorts of things (cp, warez).

at their prices, and because of their inbound to outbound ratio peering is a huge problem for Cogent so they may have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to reports of this kind of stuff.

Still, I know of three companies who were 'shut off' completely for accusations and no real proof.

[jimmyf]

zubr, give me an ICQ and I'll hook you up with the company I use.

But if you have cp or allow it am sure they will do the same that has happened cut you off.

I don't think they will shut off completely for accusations and no
proof.

Unless it's clear cp and just about anyone with any smarts will cut
you off...

[hatebreed]

I know the galleries in question.

We are talking underage girls nude with no genitalia shown.

This is not pornography, thus not CP at all.

Though I personally find it VERY sick, it's not illegal. No reason for them to fuck with his server.

[clickpimp]

I know the galleries in question.

We are talking underage girls nude with no genitalia shown.

This is not pornography, thus not CP at all.

Though I personally find it VERY sick, it's not illegal. No reason for them to fuck with his server.


are there nudes anywhere on the site? i think there are plenty of cp interpretations that would make this a no-no ....

[Gemini]

No reason for them to f*ck with his server...

When you get down to it, cogent or any host or BW provider can do as they please... cutting off anyone they want even if its only for something simple like not liking the domain name or the domain owners name.

Might not sound right but they own the BW (in this case) so its up to them. Anyone CONTACT them before posting here?!

[zubr]

ok, to clear up the situation...

i never allowed any CP or underage chicks in any form of it.

But some fuckers continue creating accounts and uploading it, its out of my control!

Nevertheless the pics are clearly not CP, they just dont fit under the definition as hatebreed said.

Thats really sad though!

[zubr]

Originally posted by jimmyf
zubr, give me an ICQ and I'll hook you up with the company I use.

But if you have cp or allow it am sure they will do the same that has happened cut you off.

I don't think they will shut off completely for accusations and no
proof.

Unless it's clear cp and just about anyone with any smarts will cut
you off...

jimmy, my icq is in my Sig

[FATPad]

Galleries of naked underage chicks being advertised on porn sites?

LOL

Good for cogent.

[Brad Mitchell]

Good for Cogent... but if they were mistaken, that's negligent!

Brad

[FATPad]

Time to present some model ID then. If they don't have it, they can't do anything.

[jimmyf]

zubr, posted something about this a few days ago...
I went to the forum...were they keep posting the Url's
... I guess they keep signing up on his free hosting...

and as they were posting new Url's, I guess he was deleting the pages... I forget the Url for the forum... but they were getting pissed..... I would say he got caught between the rock and the hard place..

If you run a Free Host, you better hope it doesn't happen to you.

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by Gemini
No reason for them to f*ck with his server...

When you get down to it, cogent or any host or BW provider can do as they please... cutting off anyone they want even if its only for something simple like not liking the domain name or the domain owners name.

Might not sound right but they own the BW (in this case) so its up to them. Anyone CONTACT them before posting here?!

opens them up to getting sued. glad i'm not on cogent if they drop hosts without proof.

[Mr.Fiction]

They shouldn't have shut you down without warning. Did they give you a bunch of warnings first and you didn't solve the problem or did this just happen with no prior contact?

[TheApostate]

from adultprohost.com

Sorry, but we're FUCKED

sorry, i thought thas was funny

[SR]

Some fucked up shit
Good they do something against childporn but very unprofessional if you cut of a host right away without getting your facts straight and without warning the host about it.
Must be something more going on.

[Due]

Mayby Cogent didn't know you where running a free host. Got a complaint and then saw nude pictures of children.
Any person in their right mind would shut that down.
They have every right to shut that down since it is against their terms (haven't seen them but my guess is nude pictures of children is against 99% of the BW providers terms) that anyone share that kind of stuff through their network.
No matter if you like it or not you where still helping with that since you provide server access to people.
If you had informed Cogent about your business plan and how it works they might have given you some more room and send a notice first perhaps.
The guy that review complaints probably don't even know what a free host is

[[Dan]]

Well.. if they kept signing up for account and uploading shit, why not close the signup form until you sort it out?

[zubr]

ok, the first thing i did was shutdown the signup form.

I finally got through to Cogent and explained the situation. They said that they're ready to plug it back in, but on future occurences there will be a 50 grand fine. I told him to fuck off right there and hanged up.

[jimmyf]

Like I said above... I went to that forum... and thats all they were talking about.... the pages keep getting deleted... so he was trying to keep them off......

I wonder what a free host does... if you delete a page and 5 more pop up.... These people had found a home... and they thought it belong to them... they were very pissed he kept deleting the pages...

I guess you don't use Cogent if your in the free hosting business.
I wouldn't... the man was trying to keep them off..

[TFCash]

Originally posted by zubr
ok, the first thing i did was shutdown the signup form.

I finally got through to Cogent and explained the situation. They said that they're ready to plug it back in, but on future occurences there will be a 50 grand fine. I told him to fuck off right there and hanged up.

Zubr -

Who exactly told you that there would be a 50K fine ?? I'd be interested to know which one of the guys said that!!

Those that run freehosts are going to have to play by the same rules as everyone else, just because he is trying to keep them off the server is of little concern to the network providers, and that includes all providers !!! I would bet that Zubr has had more than 1 run-in with CP or the guys at Cogent wouldn't have shut him off!!!

If you really are concerned with keeping the CP and warez guys off your servers why don't you charge a small fee to create a user account on your server, that would give you 2 ways to keep them off your machine, first of all they are going to have to give up some info that can be tied back to them if they fuckup, and secondly they won't want to keep spending 10 or 20 bucks each time they have to create a new account when you can their ass

Just my


Tim

[Gemini]

opens them up to getting sued. glad i'm not on cogent if they drop hosts without proof...

How so Iguana?! All they have to do is claim whatever they want for the reason to discontimue services to ANYone. It's called freemarkey... capitalism...

And no, I am not saying that anyone knowlingly had cp here... just the fact that NO company HAS to supply services to ANYone person if they chose not to. Ask a lawyer to sue them for refusal. And he will laugh. They can use any one of a million reasons to drop someone.

[Slick]

Originally posted by SinEmpire
Good for Cogent... but if they were mistaken, that's negligent!

Brad

Yep, you hit it right on the head there. I'm sure that Zubr is being hurt pretty bad by having his stuff down. I know that it's torture for me to see my sites down, ha ha ha.

If it's because they THINK it's CP and it's not, then they're stupid. What they should do is bring the content in question to the Zubr and ask him for proof of the model's age, if he couldn't provide it, then they should cut it off.

[Slick]

Heck, when I was in a bar over this weekend, I saw this person that looked JUST like a 12 year old boy, no shit, all of us couldn't believe it and it was out doing dirty dancing with a guy, we didn't know what to think, it looked totally disgusting.

Come to find out, before the end of the night, we found out that it was really a 22 year old GIRL. I didn't go up to that person and say "this boy shouldn't be in the bar, she's only 12", I left it alone and in time, I found that it was a 22 year old girl. It's best to do your investigative work rather than jumping the gun, that's what Cogent needs to learn

[FATPad]

No one's disputing that it's CP that's being posted.

[FATPad]

I don't understand.

You shut off the signup form? How did they keep signing up then?

Did they keep uploading to the account they already had?

[Paul Markham]

To me this is simple.

Zubr you are totally responisble for what is on your site, as Cogent are responsible for what is on their bandwidth.

You cannot set up an "arena" that is beyond you to control and monitor. Then when someone inside it, breaks the law you turn around and say "I did try but could not do anything to stop it"

If you ran a club where people are selling drugs you're liable for prosecution.

It seems you have set up a free host (arena) that is beyond your control in an effort to make money. When the BW provider (landlord) says no, you complain.

I think their trust level of you is reflected in the size of fine they set. They were too polite to say F OFF they said $50K instead but it meant the same.

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by Gemini
opens them up to getting sued. glad i'm not on cogent if they drop hosts without proof...

How so Iguana?! All they have to do is claim whatever they want for the reason to discontimue services to ANYone. It's called freemarkey... capitalism...

And no, I am not saying that anyone knowlingly had cp here... just the fact that NO company HAS to supply services to ANYone person if they chose not to. Ask a lawyer to sue them for refusal. And he will laugh. They can use any one of a million reasons to drop someone.

how so? they can claim whatever they want. if they didn't give him the chance to take care of the situation and just cut off his bandwidth they can get sued and lose very easy. if you pay for bandwidth they can't just say bye bye on a whim. its a contract.

pretty cut and dry

lets say someone posted cp on yahoo's free host geocities. i email cogent about the cp and they cut off yahoo's bandwidth. assuming cogent is their only provider yahoo is dead. you think yahoo doesn't have a case? lets see damages for lost revenue.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by FlyingIguana


how so? they can claim whatever they want. if they didn't give him the chance to take care of the situation and just cut off his bandwidth they can get sued and lose very easy. if you pay for bandwidth they can't just say bye bye on a whim. its a contract.

pretty cut and dry

lets say someone posted cp on yahoo's free host geocities. i email cogent about the cp and they cut off yahoo's bandwidth. assuming cogent is their only provider yahoo is dead. you think yahoo doesn't have a case? lets see damages for lost revenue.

I very seriously doubt that Cogent just cut him off without a single attempt at communication.

There is more to this story than is being told here.

[zubr]

Originally posted by FATPad

I very seriously doubt that Cogent just cut him off without a single attempt at communication.

There is more to this story than is being told here.

You're right,

i had this accident two times before - they gave me two hours to remove it, and i did in under 10 minutes and sent apologies.

But this time they just cut me off, gave 5 tickets and started bullshitting about the fine.

My argument is here:

1. That wasnt CP. Although those girls werent 18, if you read the definition of CP clearly, if the girl isnt engaged in sexual contact or showing her genitals - it isnt CP. I AM NOT IN NO WAY SAYING I WANTED TO HOST IT. NO NO and NO! I'm just saying it was legal.

2. Even that it was a third occasion, they know the situation and they know i run a freehost. so if they get a complaint - they should forward it to me first.

[TFCash]

Originally posted by zubr

1. That wasnt CP. Although those girls werent 18, if you read the definition of CP clearly, if the girl isnt engaged in sexual contact or showing her genitals - it isnt CP. I AM NOT IN NO WAY SAYING I WANTED TO HOST IT. NO NO and NO! I'm just saying it was legal.

2. Even that it was a third occasion, they know the situation and they know i run a freehost. so if they get a complaint - they should forward it to me first.

Zubr -

This is the part that is biting you in the ass.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 110 > Sec. 2256 > (8)

(D) Such visual depiction is advertised, promoted, presented, described, or distributed in such a manner that conveys the impression that the material is or contains a visual depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and


Your site is presented as a porn hosting company, all the images that are found on your domain are for the viewing pleasure of mature adults in the privacy of their own homes, they are expecting to see porn. So those images would be considered by many law enforcement agencies to be covered on section 8 part D of title 18. It doesn't actually have to show minors engaging in sexually explicit conduct, it simply has to convey the impression. And who on this board want's to go in front of a Judge and fight that one ???


And as for this being the 3rd time they have had to get on you about this, you have heard of the phrase "3rd strike your out ".

Again I would suggest that the freehost industry find a way to prevent these type of people from getting accounts, weather it be a small charge to a cc or checking account, or something like "id verify" which ebay uses to reduce fraud, you are going to either have to learn to control your servers, or loose the privilege to be on the network, which you have found out how easy it is to get booted!



Tim

[zubr]

Tim, thats a very effective solution,

but it takes out the sense of freehosting,

people who for some reason dont want to buy anything use it!

Be it $1 or $100, they dont want upfront fees...

[FATPad]

Originally posted by zubr
Tim, thats a very effective solution,

but it takes out the sense of freehosting,

people who for some reason dont want to buy anything use it!

Be it $1 or $100, they dont want upfront fees...

That's not your bandwidth provider's problem.

Just people are too cheap to pay for hosting doesn't mean no one is to be held responsible for people posting CP.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by FATPad

That's not your bandwidth provider's problem.

Just people are too cheap to pay for hosting doesn't mean no one is to be held responsible for people posting CP.

The people that were posting on your site knew that you were not that good a monitoring it. Your host TOLD YOU three times? I would have done exactly the same as they did, but maybe not as slowly.

Do you really want to face a jury with the defence, "I could not monitor it" for a CP charge? Also it seems Cogent could find it.

[TFCash]

Originally posted by zubr
Tim, thats a very effective solution,

but it takes out the sense of freehosting,

people who for some reason dont want to buy anything use it!

Be it $1 or $100, they dont want upfront fees...

Zubr -

I disagree, I think that you can make a good case for it on your signup page. Let's take for instance the "ID verify" that ebay uses. It's like $5, that is charged by a 3rd party so you can claim that you make no income from it whatsoever. You are going to all but eliminate the need to spend hours a day, searching and removing, warez & CP from your servers. You can explain that by doing this, your servers will function better than other freehost's since your resources are not being abused by those that upload warez and CP, and take away system resources. It also allows you to offer more and better tech support since your not pouring over stats all day long looking for warez and CP. Here is the thing, you were offline because of this happening, so how much money were you making while your ip's were shut off ?? Wouldn't it be better to have 50% of the customer base and not worry about being shut off again ??

And I again state for the record that most providers will shut you off, when you have multiple instances of the same issue over and over again, so Cogent isn't the bad guys here! I applaud them for setting a standard and holding to that standard, even when it means that they are going to loose money by loosing a customer.


Tim