Why did we have reason to attack over there?

Iraq - a leader that claimed to have wmd, who harbored terrorists, who broke 17 U.N. resolutions.

Afganistan - Taliban leadership, country allowed terrorist training camps that Bin laden ran.

Btw we havent had another attack in 5 years, but there have been many many that were stopped by our government.

i would hardly say they 'fell in the exact same way' - just watch th video of them falling down. They both suffered a very similar impact - 757 crashing into the side of them, one slightly higher than the other...

but, they both fell down.. and, seeing as they are practcally identical buildings, i would think that given similar structural damage, the collapses would be very similar to eachother - but hell.. i learned a long time ago that logic/rational thought/physics have NO PLACE in any discussion about 9/11. It's all about partisan politics :thumbsup

You make it sound like two distinct buildings suffered two distinct attacks.. and then fell down 'the exact same way' - which is completely and utterly false.

All conspiracy theories de-bunked by Popular Mechanics. All nutjobs please read and then STFU:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

Ok.. one more time.. watch the impact.. now pay attention.. if you actually watch, you'll see the wing tip came through the side of the bldg, and the nose came out the opposing end. then the explosion where lots & lots of fuel went up in flames.. Look at the smoke far away from the bldg.. It's black.. indicative of burning fuel.. Black smoke out the windows/structure is from oxygen depletion. Nothing magic about it.. Play it over and over.. watch the side open up.. watch the nose come out..

Wow... I'm impressed! and I believe ya.. Now apply that fun bit of science to how it would actually apply..
Take 2 hanger size wires about 2 feet long and place them parallel to each other about a foot apart.. off the floor a bit.. place a 2x4 across them and set a bottle or whatever in the center of board.. now hold that lighter to one of the wires til it weakens to the point of giving in to the weight of the board. Oh no! The bottle has toppled to one side.. the other wire stood fast while supporting an equal amount of weight..

One side of the bldg burned.. the other side didn't, yet it came down at the same time as the burned side.

Gotta love that science stuff.. :)


In the early 1970's the World Trade Center's chief structural engineer, Leslie Robertson, calculated the effect of the impact of a Boeing 707 with the World Trade Center towers. His results were reported in the New York Times where it was claimed that Robertson's study proved the towers would withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 moving at 600 miles an hour. Little did he know that decades later two aircraft, almost identical to the Boeing 707, would impact the towers.

and:

Frank DeMartini, WTC Construction and Project Mgmt.

The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.

The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.
The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.

The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet.
The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.

The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel.
The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.

Not alot of difference... Oh so wrong I am...


NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NCSTAR 1-5A).
NIST

Hmmm....


Yes.. I noticed :)



Wow you're good.. but wait.. what answers did you give? One attempt about the neat pressure thing? Flailing words do not an answer make.. No links or sources..?

Damn this is fun.. :)

Jesus not again...

They started pumpin out that stuff when a cousin of the head of Homeland Security showed up on their doorstep ..

Well, the US had global interests in that region long before the recent wars. Basically, we started building all of these bases in the Middle East to attack other Middle Eastern countries for other bases and oil security. We also helped Israel destroy Lebanon and so forth.

Basically, if the US wasn't a superpower we wouldn't have these problems (since we wouldn't have the big military cock to swing). With power comes... hunger for more power...

You could look up some US conflicts in that region or read Osama's fatwahs that explain why he asked Muslims to wage war against the US. It is all simply because of our hyperpower status... and these recent wars are really fueling the fire.

As you said, we didn't get attacked again, yet. We will and it will become more common in my opinion. They just keep getting more and more recruits, especially from the recent wars... Millions... to tens of millions... some will eventually get in, can't stop them. But, we'll keep fighting on the war against the "terrorists", even though our hyperpower bullshit started it all.

The Empire State building was hit by a B-25 which is a toy compared to the planes that struck the Towers. In addition the structural design of the Towers was different than the Empire State building and other previous sky scrapers. I would say that the Towers may have had a serious stuctural design flaw but maybe not as they were not built to withstand the hits that they took from these aircraft.

I mostly see smoke and 1 burst of flames from maybe left over plane fuel.
People can survive 1800 degrees? She looked ok in those pictures.

The intel agencies have known since 1995 that they were laying plans to fly aircraft into buildings in the continental USA. The 1995 plans mentioned flying a plane/planes into the CIA headquarters. I think it was in 1998 they discovered plans to fly planes into other buildings and included the Towers. What I do not know is if this info was always passed to each incoming administration with specifics other than generalized info about plans were being made to attack the continental USA. The only cover up about 9/11 is the attempted CYA about the Administrations and certain goverment agencies incompetence.

So much falacy in this post. The main structure of the building was a central beam system surrounded on the outside by smaller beams. The fire was in the center by the beams.

What else burns black hmmm rubber and plastic based items? Hmmm Carpet? Hmm. Nope just fuel is the only thing right?

Just too much bs to go through.

So the only debunking you have is someone is related to to someone in the government? Debate the facts of it.

yeah exactly, lets get a extra portion of goebels style propaganda

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/jul...spinattack.htm

busted haha :)

@franck, sticky: don't you see, in too months from now, the only retarded people are you.. the others will be woken up..

Both planes had the same amount of fuel and hit at the exact same spot at the exact same speed?

Did they not all fall perfectly into their footsteps? wtc 1 2 and wtc 7.
Can you show me how all 3 fell differently?
I saw a c130 plane hit a 10 story building in Iran.
I watched all day for the building collapse. It didnt.

The WTC had 47 columns.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...s/site1099.jpg

you now it funny,but some people believe that.

Yes it seems many people will be retarded in too months....

Even after seeing some of the shit people post, you still think that things being "obvious" are what they worry about?

:1orglaugh

It's really sad. I almost hope they're just stirring shit up, and don't actually BELIEVE it.

2 main center columns and 45 smaller beams along the outside. Quite a few of those beams Im sure were wiped out by a huge plane flying through them.

Thats whats sad though. They do believe it. :Oh crap

I am sorry if I offend you but I am shocked at your plebian use of logic and how you conveniently ignore so many facts to make your desired conclusion work. It really is shocking to see.

You have to ask yourself why is there 500 + sites that think this is a conspiracy and about 20 that try to debunk them? do you think all 500 of these people are right wing tin hat nut jobs? Not to mention 100's of videos trying to provew there point, there must be 50 alone just on google.

What needs to be seen is the tapes of the pentagon crash.
If they the Goverment can show a 757 Boieng plane going in
that hole then I will quit thinking as the other 500+ sites do.

The Regular Network TV has most Americans BrainWashed!!!

Time to smell the roses and do something about it.

Fucking Hell do we have so many brain dead people in this world....If 9/11 was a fake why the fuck has that fucking cunt Bin Laden been seen in videos with the hijackers talking about the plot and why has he even accepted responsibility for the plot lately....mmmm... maybee you need to watch the news of current events.....or maybee that cunt Bin Ladin is in on it as well....Fuck I doubt that.....all you have to do is look at the latest threats....Then I suppose the London bombings and the Madrid train bombings were also set up....not to forget the attack on the Cole and todays attack on the US embassy in Syria or the attack in Saudia Arabia on the compound of the US workers and so many other attacks.....Fuck get real....most of us watched 9/11 LIVE on TV on many major stations mabee that was also fake....fuck let us have some respect for all those that lost family members and friends on 9\11....I bet you would not be talking shit if you had lost someone on 9/11 in the attacks or any other attacks for that matter

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...s/site1099.jpg
Does that look like 2 main columns?
Earlier you said a central column.
"The main structure of the building was a central beam system surrounded on the outside by smaller beams. The fire was in the center by the beams."

Wouldnt the columns on every single floor have to weaken all the way to the ground for it to pancake without any resistance?

Not offended at all.
What facts am I ignoring?

Let me just say I am absolutely floored someone thinks like you, honestly all that can come out of my mouth is WOW
Im speechless

i think there are 47 center coluums in both wtc towers.

THE PENTAGON
At 9:37 am on 9/11, 51 minutes after the first plane hit the World Trade Center, the Pentagon was similarly attacked. Though dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.

Big Plane, Small Holes
CLAIM: Two holes were visible in the Pentagon immediately after the attack: a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall, and a 16-ft.-wide hole in Ring C, the Pentagon's middle ring. Conspiracy theorists claim both holes are far too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. "How does a plane 125 ft. wide and 155 ft. long fit into a hole which is only 16 ft. across?" asks reopen911.org, a Web site "dedicated to discovering the bottom line truth to what really occurred on September 11, 2001."

The truth is of even less importance to French author Thierry Meyssan, whose baseless assertions are fodder for even mainstream European and Middle Eastern media. In his book The Big Lie, Meyssan concludes that the Pentagon was struck by a satellite-guided missile--part of an elaborate U.S. military coup. "This attack," he writes, "could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel."

FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.

Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.


Intact Windows
CLAIM: Many Pentagon windows remained in one piece--even those just above the point of impact from the Boeing 757 passenger plane. Pentagonstrike.co.uk, an online animation widely circulated in the United States and Europe, claims that photographs showing "intact windows" directly above the crash site prove "a missile" or "a craft much smaller than a 757" struck the Pentagon.

FACT: Some windows near the impact area did indeed survive the crash. But that's what the windows were supposed to do--they're blast-resistant.

"A blast-resistant window must be designed to resist a force significantly higher than a hurricane that's hitting instantaneously," says Ken Hays, executive vice president of Masonry Arts, the Bessemer, Ala., company that designed, manufactured and installed the Pentagon windows. Some were knocked out of the walls by the crash and the outer ring's later collapse. "They were not designed to receive wracking seismic force," Hays notes. "They were designed to take in inward pressure from a blast event, which apparently they did: [Before the collapse] the blinds were still stacked neatly behind the window glass."


Flight 77 Debris
CLAIM: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

I'm not getting involved in this, as I don't believe either side to be quite honest.

I will post this and say that not everything is always as it seems. Not that this administration had anything at all to do with 9/11, because I don't know if they did or not, but don't close your mind to the fact that it CAN happen. Before you deny my post...please read the entire document. (Click on all the GIF files)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

Alot of what you see there is going to look really familiar.

And before any of you classes me as "anti american" or "conspiracy nut" ... They're fucking declassified U.S. government documents. Save your breath...your jedi mind tricks do not work on me.

[QUOTE=NickPapageorgio]I'm not getting involved in this, as I don't believe either side to be quite honest.

I will post this and say that not everything is always as it seems. Not that this administration had anything at all to do with 9/11, because I don't know if they did or not, but don't close your mind to the fact that it CAN happen. Before you deny my post...please read the entire document. (Click on all the GIF files)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

Alot of what you see there is going to look really familiar.

And before any of you classes me as "anti american" or "conspiracy nut" ... They're fucking declassified U.S. government documents. Save your breath...your jedi mind tricks do not work on me.[/QUOTE


very interesting

the video CNN released looks as if it were an F-16 Plowing in

http://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/bosankoe.htm
www.montalk.net/ten_per_second.gif
www.montalk.net/four_per_second.gif
http://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/voila.htm

And here's the punchline!

They vote.

:Oh crap

Weak minded people like you that guy into it and click their adsense ads? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I can't go on further in this thread; my skin itches from reading that people can actually believe that there was a conspiracy of THOUSANDS of Americans to pull something like that off and flies in the face of so much facts. So the military have killed or hidden all the people on the plane that never flew into the Pentagon? What about this:

Flight 77 Debris
CLAIM: Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

http://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/multiframes.htm

a good close up of the frames.

Your one of the Brain Washed close minded idiot's.

keep sucking Bushes Dick :pimp

BTW, I'm not even American. You have a few video frames while Popular Mechanic had these experts looking at conspirasist theories, so who is the close minded idiot here?:

PM consulted more than 300 experts and organizations in its investigation into 9/11 conspiracy theories. The following were particularly helpful.

Air Crash Analysis
Cleveland Center regional air traffic control

Bill Crowley special agent, FBI

Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants

Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.

Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes

Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)

Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority

Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)

Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA

Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center

Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.

James O?Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office

Jeff Pillets senior writer,
The Record, Hackensack, NJ

Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service

Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
119th Wing, North Dakota
Air National Guard

Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene

Air Defense
Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
U.S. Air Force

Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
Tyndall Air Force Base

Boston Center regional air traffic control

Laura Brown spokeswoman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation

Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board

Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board

Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
North American Aerospace Defense Command

Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
Andrews AFB

Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command

John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org

Hank Price spokesman, Federal
Aviation Administration

Warren Robak RAND Corp.

Bill Shumann spokesman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB

Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane?s Transport

Aviation
Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology

Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman

Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert

Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week


Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center

Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman

Image Analysis
William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill

W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
FEMA Probe Team

Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group

Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week

Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.

Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University

Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness

Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
University of California, San Diego

Structural Engineering / Building Collapse
Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction

David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report

Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.

Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee

Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety

John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team

Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts

Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response

Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University

William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA

John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor

Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University

James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee

Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash

Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon

Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology

Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University

Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

No you just arent grasping how the building was made.

http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc_graphic.gif

Any pictures of the tail section, a wing, a seat or luggage?
I have yet to see any pictures of these.

Popular Mechanics were paid to do so by our Goverment, Fact is they would not even do interviews with College Professors and Engineers that support the conspiracy theories, this is documented on one the the 911 sites.

I assume you have a link to proof of the government paying for it? Cause I think you are completly full of shit.

Popular Mechanics is just Like FOX News

owned by uncle sam

I assume you have a link to this right? Ive been reading Popular mechanics since I was about 8 or 9 years old. My grandfather got it for years and years before that. Im unaware of either PM or Fox being owned by the government, but continue showing what a fuckin wackjob you are. :thumbsup

Btw here is a hint Rupert Murdoch is from Austrailia and he owns Fox. :1orglaugh

Ahh... The plane hits to the side of the bldg. but the fire was in the center by 'a central beam'.. You mean that part where the explosion took up all the oxygen? Hmm.. the explosion has to find it's way outside for some nice fresh air, but the fire is in the center of the building.. You go boy!

And you'e right.. I watched the video again and I decided that the black smoke from the huge explosion on impact was carpet and plastic.. Damn what was I thinkin????

I agree.. just too much bs.. :)

Have a read of this debate between the Popular Mechanics editor and the leading conspirasist website:

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../09/11/1345203

What a joke.

Only wackJob here is you buying into The Main Stream Media
bullshit and you where it - smell it and are it just like other non believers.

your day is coming soon - laugh all you want :321GFY

The one i think they declined to do was Alex Jones.

http://doublea.typepad.com/photos/un...zed/psycho.jpg

http://home.blarg.net/~dr_z/Movie/Po...Psycho_Rep.jpg

Ok I see 47 columns, If a pancake theory happened, how do 47 metal beams break off all the way to the ground? Wouldnt the metal beams on lower floors still stand while the floors around collapse at free fall speed? Can 47 thick metal beams just vaporize?

Alex Jones..... Hero of yours? lol this splains alot..

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Lets see millions of tons coming down on a beam will it stay standing or fall downward with the rest of the debris?... *scratches head*