Also, Russo didnt make the documentary, he is just a very vocal supporter of same.

This is my understanding also. I've read the caselaw (although not recently) from some of those cases, and from all reports, the judges pretty much laughed in their faces. The trials, for the most part, were full of stunts like reciting the Pledge instead of entering a plea, representing themselves, etc.

Why does "Fight the Power" all too often have to mean "We're a Bunch of Idiots"??

Florida doesn't have income tax...so its all groovy baby

ah okay! thanx for the info!

@detoxed: i try. you watched the movie yet? or the interview with russo?

It dosent matter if 1 court, 2 courts, 10 courts, 100 courts, 1000 courts or all courts have ruled it frivilious or not. Facts are facts. The law says what the law says. There is NO debate on this.

16 American jurisprudence 2d, Section 177 late 2d, Section 256

?The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and [name of law], is in reality [no law], but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it.

[No one] is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound t enforce it.?

Norton v. Shelby County 118 US 45

?An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as [inoperative] as though it had never been passed.?

Marbury v. Madison 5 U.S. 137

?All laws which are [repugnant] to the Constitution are null and void.

Miranda v. Arizona 384 US 436

?Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would [abrogate] them.?

Actually, how the courts rule is the ONLY thing that matters. If the law says "you cannot wear a chicken suit," and you are dressed as a monkey, it won't matter WHAT the law said if the court decides to convict you. Once it goes all the way up the chain (or is refused by a higher court), you're out of appeals, and all the "I'm right" in the world isn't going to get you out of jail.

I guess it matters in the CLASSROOM what the law says, but 11th grade Social Studies doesn't prepare you for the adult world. If the courts convict consistently, the only change that can be made is legislatively -- and that isn't happening.

Sorry, but you're not talking about the real world -- this is dream land. Stop paying your taxes and see if that excuse keeps you out of jail. Then, post here with the results.

I forgot to mention something funny in my haste to laugh at your baaaaah'ing.

Whose interpretation of the law matters? The judge, or some guy on a message board?

This is why people without law degrees end up going down dangerous paths when they think they understand things that they clearly don't.

Already have. I stopped paying in 1999. Oh, and did I mention I routinely cheat on state sales tax too? You wouldnt belive the number and scope of the items I purchase for "farm use". The government lost the right to tax me when it stopped representing me. No taxation without representation.

Nope - don't pay any taxes.

Sorted that out years ago and never had a tax form for personal or corporate taxation since. (Don't like junk mail)

Qualification - not exactly 100% true - still obviously pay sales taxes when shopping etc - this can be nada thru to 13% depending on the product.

Don't want to pay taxes? Just get organized and dump them - there are plenty options and all 100% legal.

That may catch up with you. Hope it doesn't, of course! But if it DOES, I wouldn't count on this caselaw to save you -- it's saved NO ONE that I know of. The cases got laughed all the way to heavy jail time.

No taxation without representation!!!


don't be fooled, don't pay!

9/11 what most likly happend click

You'd have a hell of a fight on your hands to try and prove anything like that. A few years ago a friend of the family got caught after years of tax evasion.

He was a restaurant owner that had been cheating on his taxes for something like 20 years. He ended up having his house and cars seized and did 3 years in minimum security prison. He was a guy that worked in a cash business and never thought twice about pocketing most of it.

Now he's 66 years old and having to work a full time job because they took everything from him. Imo the gamble isnt worth the risk.

Does anyone have any information regarding how this affects Canada specifically? Taxes or otherwise.

Believe this is really a US issue over the "oversight" (or non-oversight) of private corps originally formed to collect taxes in the US which was prob illegal at the time - but may have become legitimized by a mish mash of legislation since that time. Least that's what the govt would argue.

Was a long time ago was reading about the history of this - involved some weirdo stuff and ranged from Puerto Rico to Washington and creating an "independent 'state' within a state" and the formation of private corps within that 'state" (in the Washington area) to ensure assets could not be attacked. There were obviously schemers (or scammers) at work then who would be in court on conspiracy charges if that ever happened in current times :)

Very unconventional conduct for a govt, but hey - it was the land of opportunity then :winkwink:

That was frightening.

Green tea Makes you pee a lot

I dont think it does at all. If you have no presence here, they have no ability to tax you. Just like US residents dont have to pay Canada's VAT.

wait a second elitegirls, you're not even in the us and you're trying to tell us what we should and shouldnt do as americans... go fuck yourself

yeah i do so, because i know the rules, the laws and your mofos don't but you nearly all obey to what the IRS says.. so go fuck yourself first! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

if you don't trust me, trust minusonebit, he knows i'm right.

Not exactly what I meant. I was wondering if there were any laws in Canada like the US which makes it illegal fo collect taxes on income and if the system was from a federal reserve. As far as I know of the Canadian gov still prints the money at the mint which is owned by the government? Regarldess we still answer to the US and if the US has a recession so will we.

You're so right :/

bump !!!

Only two things in life are certain. Death and taxes

taxes? what taxes?

Firstly, many people who advocate not paying U.S. Federal taxes earn so little income that the IRS likely doesn't even notice; if they do, won't bother pursuing the matter.

Secondly, the "elite" (people in power) make the rules ... the laws are smoke and mirrors for the average joe schmoe - giving people a sense they have protected rights when they often don't...

See how far the 4th amendment gets one if they are growing cannabis (marijuana) in the privacy of their own home ...

See how far the 1st amendment gets one who merely possesses (not even talking a producer) of "obscene" material, which itself isn't clearly defined; it's whatever the "elite" considers it to be for their convenience ...

Rights to a fair trial don't apply to all U.S. citizens; secret laws, secret trials, secret prisons ... all very spooky - sounds like the former U.S.S.R. and yet this is America 2006 ... and to be real, such shanagans isn't new, but has further expanded in the past 10 years; the Clinton administration were no saints either in that they allowed / supported such activities too.

In a nutshell, the law is what the "elite" (people in power) say they are to fit their agenda. All this talk about the U.S. Federal income tax being Constitutional or not doesn't mean diddly to them...

Sure occasionally a person here and there gets lucky challenging a law they disagree with, but that's about the same odds as winning the lottery, and it will likely cost that much too in time and effort - it's a gamble most people realistically aren't able to take and thus they are basically forced to tow the line ... ie. pay taxes as directed.

Ron

Hmmm quite funny a foreigner telling us about our laws and how stupid we are for following something that isnt really a law...

Oh wait whats this? The US Constitution
I guess she forgot read the 16 Amendment

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Next time do your own research instead copy and pasting some propaganda and taking it as fact

minusonebit is the only one with balls on this board!!! :thumbsup

Alot of this is true, but not the part about the IRS not coming after small cheats. Not too long ago, they came after someone over a few hundred bucks a couple of miles away from me. And the people in power think they are in power, but they really arent. They answer to the people if they would just excercise thier right to hold people accountable.

The fact of the matter is, the very first time that the government put some scam into play like a federal reserve bank or the income tax, the government should have been overthrown at once and the heads of state executed for treason. The problem today is no one wants to take drastic action, everyone wants to be a moderate and they would much rather have a few hundred circle jerk meetings than do anything sensible or productive like eliminate a problem once and for all.

Back in the old days, mayors and other comminity leaders worried about keeping enough people happy to stay alive. Because they knew that if they didnt, they'd be drug out into the streets and strung up, or gunned down or gotten rid of by an angry mob of citizens.

Canadian information regarding the same topic:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/newsroom/myths/menu-e.html#m1

I think you need to do a bit more research on your own :winkwink:

Nobody is contesting the Constitution. The issue is over "whatever source derived" where lawyers appear to be claiming the "source" is specified in tax regulations (foreign investments, interest blah) but they are unable to find any law passed by Congress which would apply to the average US citizen. When asked, the IRS are unable to point this law out and avoid the question.

@ juz: and you should not copy & paste from wikipedia without reading few lines around your copied text:

I hate tax.

yes me too.. then move to USA there you don't have to pay tax!

I thought everyone out there, in the whole world, had to pay taxes.

Am I wrong here?

there no taxes in dubai, hong kong, monaco, on the bvis, all have flat taxes, eg 500 bucks / year.

other countries have flat taxes, 10% everybody.

but the us constitution 16. amendment states that no one never should take direct taxes from labour! ones one labour must be free. otherwise your just a SLAVE. so no direct income tax for normal workes. (no taxes on wages/labor)
and no taxes without represantation.

thats it.. don't pay unless they show you the law, where it says you have to!

If you do not pay taxes and live in the US get the fuck out of my country.

Prob in most countries tranza - and at least to the level of some form of sales tax. But no, - there are several fine countries where it's possible to legally not pay corporate and personal taxation. I've never paid personal taxes or any taxation on any corps for years. Just takes some organizing and making yourself "free" to enable this.

YOUR country? And what the fuck have you done, if I may ask, to have the right to proclaim this to be YOUR country? Have you made any contributions other than being a sheeple and mindlessly following the establishment like a lost puppy?

Perhaps you should do a bit of research yourself...

The 16th amendment gave Congress no new taxation powers as it is limited by Article I, Section 2, Clause 3:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States?.

And Article I, Section 9, Clause 4:

No Capitation, or other direct Tax, shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration?.


Info

Ya can't just pull little paragraphs out of the constitution.. Ya gotta.... reasearch... Laws are tied together with other laws..